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Sapphira said:

This just makes me think all the more, for once it would be so nice if it wasn't just 'Mags are doing stuff and are the bad guys as usual' and someone else got to be the scapegoat for a change. 

I do want to clarify that admin-side, the intention wasn't to turn Magnagora into a scapegoat, but rather to acknowledge that Magnagora had a unique roleplay avenue through Drocilla that particularly allowed them to enjoy the 'villainy' of the event. We wanted players in Magnagora to be aware that the admin understood this and we were going to make it clear they could take that avenue if they chose.

Hypothetically, other players could have chosen to join Li-varili as a double agent from the start, too! We were open to the possibility of players from any organization pretending to help Li-varili but secretly funneling information to their Divine behind Li-v's back. Drocillans were the ones who decided to take that roleplay avenue and run with it, however.

Sapphira said:

This just makes me think all the more, for once it would be so nice if it wasn't just 'Mags are doing stuff and are the bad guys as usual' and someone else got to be the scapegoat for a change. 

This just makes me think all the more, for once it would be so nice if it wasn't just 'Mags are doing stuff and are the bad guys as usual' and someone else got to be the scapegoat for a change. 

So, while it's on my mind and I still need to get clams - when are we getting Toronada back?

I agree that actions do have consequences, but for those consequences to be your character is ousted from multiple orgs and ignored in attempts to join an org is beyond acceptable to me. Being the "villain" shouldn't pigeon hole you into one org like this seems to be doing. 

As Lantra has mentioned in her post, if anyone is experiencing or has experienced OOC harassment, please do ISSUE with your concerns, so such behaviour can be addressed. HELP ISSUES explains the different ways of ISSUEing.

Sapphira said:

What I really loved, and feel like a large part of the player base missed, is how GREY it all was. It wasn't really cut and dry Li is bad, opposing Her is good.

As someone who was ever teetering on the idea of supporting Li, what pushed me away completely was the chain of events with the Eye. IMO, I feel like that was a juncture where Li could have showed even a shred of empathy considering some of the mirroring in her pain against Maylea's relationship with her own sister mate, and instead all we got was... grotesque, absurd amounts of narcissism and selfishness on Li's side. This was the point where Jo stopped seeing reflections of some of the good people in her life in this goddess, and could only see a mirroring of all the worst people. If it didn't take so much work to accept her on the surface level (especially with the visible propensity to lie), this "grey" might have felt less murky. I can accept that there could have been more parts to the story to earn more sympathy, but it hurts Li's angle really severely if they're basically only for the coven's eyes.

Falaine said:

I've really gotta disagree about the amount of grey area there was here. Li-v was running around the Basin betraying everyone, crapping on everyone, very clearly damaged and insane. It's okay to love her, that's fine. But there were so, so, so many flags of things that were very clearly anathema to the very core of various organizations' base beliefs and causes. As for asking questions IC? I know I did, and so did many, many others at the healing mound. And I was mocked for it, called names, etc. by the Coven members.

I feel like this is arguing that you should be free to do anything because you're having fun doing it- and you should be! But that doesn't free you from consequences. This is a terribly skewed argument, and.. man, if people are crapping on you OOC for your RP then that's messed up, but I've personally seen nothing but OOC support. but from what I've seen the reaction toward the Coven has actually trended toward too mild IC. 

There might have been grey in waking Sea, even though it was impossibly arrogant and motivated by a desire for power rather than love. But less so in waking a healing patient prematurely, through slaughtering fae. And there is absolutely zero grey in sacrificing a child. Period. That's evil. You could have backed out there if you didn't want every org who would be against that sort of thing to condemn you for doing so. And then the 'Cursing the whole Basin' bit. 

Let me be clear. There is absolutely nothing wrong with joining the Coven storyline and loving it. But I am utterly baffled by the shock over the (very clearly warned) consequences of doing so.

One thing I love about Lusternia is that argument for almost everything can be skewed. Taking a brush ooc and saying without a doubt that your IC view is the only correct and valid one is half the problem. 'impossibly arrogant and motivated by a desire for power rather than love' is actually not a black and white fact that anyone can claim or know outside of Li-varili Herself. It may be correct. But it also may not be because no one knows Her inner psyche. Maybe She liked to talk a big game but deep down all She wanted was something tangible, a child to love and cherish that would remind Her of Her lost love. Both sides can be argued! That's my main point. It's not 100% right or 100% wrong, and it's these things that make my love Lusternia lore. It's about perspectives. And players and characters can choose their position and argue them passionately IC, that's awesome. Your comment highlights my own bafflement in why there wasn't more uncertainty within more orgs. Making a choice and backing it is a super valid stance, expecting everyone to completely agree with it without question is what I have an issue with. Things went bad and She has serious issues doesn't equate to aligning with Her is wrong and anyone who did is bad, on a global, blanket level.

As for the child - sacrificing a child is evil, period - that too is subjective. YOU and perhaps your org might 100% agree that is true. Take a look at the vernal child. It brings up ends justifying the means or not. Glomdoring sacrifice a baby ritualistically on the regular! And yet Celest are still ok with working with them. Serenwilde and Magnagora are no strangers to blood sacrifices. Gaudiguch harvest flesh and have labs where they messed with fae. Lots of orgs don't care about fae in general. Ever killed mobs on Frosticia or Crum? So again I take issue with expecting everyone IC and OOC to see things through the same lense. That can be your view and your characters view but it doesn't by default make it the only view or the right view. YOU may think people were too lenient on the coven but that doesn't mean your view is the ONLY one that is right or valid. That's what I'm getting at here. Why would every org be so black and white on it? Should they be? These are just things to think about and I don't think arguing ooc that someone was right or wrong ic is helpful. There are consequences to our actions, but does every org really agree to the same extent on the same topic that one player has no choice but to turn to Magnagora because they sided with an unaligned goddess who was crazy but also very capable of inspiring a lot of sympathy? 

I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here, because I would love to see more engaging story lines like the Li arc in the future, without people going 'not worth it for the fallout'. That, to me, is a little sad. Mocking someone IC for their views is not the same as mocking them ooc for it. My character has not had to endure adverse consequences for taking part but I really feel for those who have. That's all. I'm just trying to encourage everyone to consider an ooc empathetic view, and hope that there may sometimes also be room ic for the same thing (I really think there is. You can understand someone's point of view and still disagree with it!). Feeling like you need to quit because you picked a certain side is not something nice to consider as players of a game genre that is dwindling. 

Xiran said:

Lantra said:

I'd like to take a moment to share how we approached the Bloodtide Coven from an event design perspective.

When coming up with the concept for the Li-varili arc, something we knew we wanted to have from the very beginning was a method for players to assist her if they wanted. We discussed internally ways of accomplishing this in a way that would be satisfying for players, and what we settled on was a series of escalating events. Each one was opt-in for the players involved, and as the events went on, the actions slid more into Li-varili's overall desire for revenge.

This design felt well communicated, observing as someone from the outside the coven. We did see characters that turned away at various points, or rebounded back to Bloodtide Coven. I could also see the draw of continuing to receive praise until the end.

Agreeing with Falaine above on IC consequence. There's still room to play a redemption arc if that's what's desired.

The allure of actually getting divine interaction is ridiculously powerful, sidenote. Some of you don't know how lucky you are!