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Sapphira said:

This just makes me think all the more, for once it would be so nice if it wasn't just 'Mags are doing stuff and are the bad guys as usual' and someone else got to be the scapegoat for a change. 

I do want to clarify that admin-side, the intention wasn't to turn Magnagora into a scapegoat, but rather to acknowledge that Magnagora had a unique roleplay avenue through Drocilla that particularly allowed them to enjoy the 'villainy' of the event. We wanted players in Magnagora to be aware that the admin understood this and we were going to make it clear they could take that avenue if they chose.

Hypothetically, other players could have chosen to join Li-varili as a double agent from the start, too! We were open to the possibility of players from any organization pretending to help Li-varili but secretly funneling information to their Divine behind Li-v's back. Drocillans were the ones who decided to take that roleplay avenue and run with it, however.

Sapphira said:

What I really loved, and feel like a large part of the player base missed, is how GREY it all was. It wasn't really cut and dry Li is bad, opposing Her is good.

As someone who was ever teetering on the idea of supporting Li, what pushed me away completely was the chain of events with the Eye. IMO, I feel like that was a juncture where Li could have showed even a shred of empathy considering some of the mirroring in her pain against Maylea's relationship with her own sister mate, and instead all we got was... grotesque, absurd amounts of narcissism and selfishness on Li's side. This was the point where Jo stopped seeing reflections of some of the good people in her life in this goddess, and could only see a mirroring of all the worst people. If it didn't take so much work to accept her on the surface level (especially with the visible propensity to lie), this "grey" might have felt less murky. I can accept that there could have been more parts to the story to earn more sympathy, but it hurts Li's angle really severely if they're basically only for the coven's eyes.

I think it's really weird to be upset to see very reasonable IC reactions. I don't know about other people being kicked for supporting the coven outside of Celest but it does seem like a very sound decision considering the IC implications of supporting a divine who sort of screwed over the Basin by causing the potential end of the world.

I didn't actively participate in this event, due to not really feeling all that well recently, but I did very much enjoy seeing the logs people posted on both sides of the conflict. While I do feel bad for anyone who isn't able to participate in the game the same way as before due to losing their org, I don't really see it as an egregious act of OOC bitterness to follow through on IC motivations.

Oh, I would absolutely love to offer my view, as one of the turncoats of the Blood Tide. A little backstory, because this is HEAVY in this thing called Roleplay. There were things happen that LORINA had to do despite me (The Player) wanted to do.

Lorina is dirt old and was an Aquamancer in New Celest longer than most modern characters have existed. To Lorina, the Sea is a long-time friend and companion. Li-Varili appeared in a time when Lorina was scorned by a loss of devotion and purpose, and offered her a chance to bring to life the Sea. In Lorina's mind, this was perfect regardless of the way Li-Varili acted... Within Lorina's time, she HAD witnessed a Divine, Lord Eventru, bring to life His realm in the form of the being known as Agia. Lorina wanted nothing more to re-experience that, and to see the Sea brought to life... her long time friend who lasted the centuries with her since most people Lorina knew no longer exists, she sought comfort in the oceans.

Lorina, with no current purpose, accepted the tasks Li-Varili offered and helped create the seaweed circle. This wasn't anything different for Lorina, being an Aquamancer for four hundred years... girl played in seaweed all her life. Now, why do you ask the secrecy? Lorina was working with Magnagorans and was ashamed of that, and assumed the ends justified the means... she would see the Sea given life. Well, her tune changed after she witnessed the poor awakening. When the Nereids came to her asking her to help break Li-Varili OUT of Lantra's healing mound, Lorina's history comes into play again... 

My Lorina, sweet gal, has been an avid healer while being an Aquamancer. It was the whole reason she became an Aquamancer since they were famous for their healing talents. She was so well-known for healing, the Basin's first Cult, her Cult... Was the August Healer. Of course Lorina was not going to interrupt that healing process, so Lorina warned Aeldra of a potential plot... Once the Nereids came to Lorina AGAIN with even darker plans, Lorina broke away from the Blood Tide completely vowing to end the bloodshed especially after learning the loss of an innocent. That's when she stole the Mirror from Li-Varili.

Me, the Player, wanted nothing more than to continue the story of the Blood Tide, but Lorina would never go beyond helping Awakening the Sea Spirit. Please understand that some people are in character, and they have history. ASK THEM WHY THEY DID IT. Don't assume good/evil being so black and white!

So I was actually part of the coven. I missed the start due to an ill-timed vacation (and was super upset by it, not going to lie, I was one of the few Li didn't outright murder when I spoke to Her and had the then-bizarre combination of a favour from both Li and Dro at once, ha.) which was the build up to the actual sea awakening. The subterfuge and plotting there really sounded like amazing fun. To think you can be involved in a secret plot to help a goddess - amazing!

Anyway. I got involved for a few reasons. Having done Rhizoda Mangrove quest there was some insight into Li's past and the hurts She'd suffered before even being imprisoned, and Her link to Drocilla. I felt (and we were encouraged later) that getting to know Her was something Dro would want us to do. I can reveal now, before the plot to start awakening Sea, Sapphira was going to act as a spy for Dro basically, since she had good favour with Her, she was going to continue to play up that devotion to learn the plot and see what needed to happen from there. That all got thrown out the window (seriously, curse my freaking trip, I was so looking forward to it) and it ended up being someone else who did that. I managed to log in just in time to join the bloodcoven at the very end and enjoy some of the chaos of pushing people around the water, not even really knowing what I was doing but not wanting to miss out!

What I really loved, and feel like a large part of the player base missed, is how GREY it all was. It wasn't really cut and dry Li is bad, opposing Her is good. Orgs even taking a strong position of we as a whole are completely opposed frustrated me a little, because when you look at the parts individually, there was a lot to agonise over and be unsure of. Was it really so bad to want to do what was essentially Her pupose, and awaken the Sea? IMAGINE if the other Elders had helped instead of hindered - maybe we'd be hanging out with Sister Sea right now! But it felt like a lot of people didn't even want to pause and consider other angles. It was just NO SEA BAD - which I get from an in character/believing and following my divine perspective more than the ooc perspective. I love that it was debatable. I wish more people had been open to actually debating or at least showing a measure of uncertainty as to what was right. I really enjoyed that Xiran stopped to listen to why we were trying to wake Li from the mound. I think she's the only person who IC asked me any questions. Even among the coven, everyone had different reasons for being involved and a different level of devotion. Again - nothing was so simple as being black and white.

I heard that there were ooc conversations really crapping all over the bloodcoven, which I think is the biggest injustice of all. Imaging how -boring- the event would have been if everyone refused to engage with Li and all we got to do was stand by the elders as they emoted at each other and we got wet. Should orgs ICly take an absolute hard line stance in instances where there is a lot of grey and room for interpretation of motives and understanding if not agreement of how things happened? That's rough on anyone to bear the brunt of that, and I think could provoke really interesting IC debate. But mostly the ooc hate, that's just not ok. Completely being ignored by an org you petitioned to join is RUDE, I don't care who you are. It is not hard to say 'no'. Or 'we will consider if we are open to even considering your request'. Having to listen on a clan while you're mocked ooc for your ic choices is not the positive environment I thought was being fostered in Lusternia and I was really disappointed to learn of it. 

I have absolutely loved this arc. I loved being able to take part. I love that Li-varili showed no favouritism towards an org or race and just hated everyone equally (As a Mag, I really feel this and it was amazing to have a divine that would engage with me without just being all you're a Mag and follow Dro lol get out). Secrets are great. I can't help but wonder though if the Mag safe haven didn't help skew things to presume 'Mag is supporting it so it's evil' somewhat, in an arc that was filled with doubt and multiple points of view and really good reasons to have sympathy for the goddess who'd really had a horrible run. I don't like the stigma of blanket Magnagora being evil - plenty of our own did not get involved at all and didn't trust those that did, and it was managed at least without the org breaking into civil war or ostrasizing people. But again, we had the temperance of Dro basically making room for us to engage or not as we liked without persecution. 

Moving forward - I would love to see more events of this sort but maybe even more grey surrounding our choices. Maybe just once it can be Celest against the world! Or something more subtle that really makes characters choose for themselves and no be the world versus like, 7 players, some of whom come out of it so destroyed they feel their only option is to quit or join an org thet traditionally have actually been opposed to. Supporting Li-varili shouldn't naturally mean 'also likes Magnagora and should live there or just be ousted from everywhere ever' because there is also plenty of reason for Mags to not support her either! Either way. I really loved Li, her personality and emotes were so FUN to behold. She didn't care for anyone and that must have been so liberating to play. I'm also so in love with nereids, I want my own little pocket nereid to hang out with sassing and stabbing people.

As Lantra has mentioned in her post, if anyone is experiencing or has experienced OOC harassment, please do ISSUE with your concerns, so such behaviour can be addressed. HELP ISSUES explains the different ways of ISSUEing.

@Tau is a good egg being lovely and contemplative. 

I've really gotta disagree about the amount of grey area there was here. Li-v was running around the Basin betraying everyone, crapping on everyone, very clearly damaged and insane. It's okay to love her, that's fine. But there were so, so, so many flags of things that were very clearly anathema to the very core of various organizations' base beliefs and causes. As for asking questions IC? I know I did, and so did many, many others at the healing mound. And I was mocked for it, called names, etc. by the Coven members.

I feel like this is arguing that you should be free to do anything because you're having fun doing it- and you should be! But that doesn't free you from consequences. This is a terribly skewed argument, and.. man, if people are crapping on you OOC for your RP then that's messed up, but I've personally seen nothing but OOC support. And from what I've seen the reaction toward the Coven has actually trended toward too mild IC. 

There might have been grey in waking Sea, even though it was impossibly arrogant and motivated by a desire for power rather than love. But less so in waking a healing patient prematurely, through slaughtering fae. And there is absolutely zero grey in sacrificing a child. Period. That's evil. You could have backed out there if you didn't want every org who would be against that sort of thing to condemn you for doing so. And then the 'Cursing the whole Basin' bit. 

Let me be clear. There is absolutely nothing wrong with joining the Coven storyline and loving it. But I am utterly baffled by the shock over the (very clearly warned) consequences of doing so.

Lantra said:

I'd like to take a moment to share how we approached the Bloodtide Coven from an event design perspective.

When coming up with the concept for the Li-varili arc, something we knew we wanted to have from the very beginning was a method for players to assist her if they wanted. We discussed internally ways of accomplishing this in a way that would be satisfying for players, and what we settled on was a series of escalating events. Each one was opt-in for the players involved, and as the events went on, the actions slid more into Li-varili's overall desire for revenge.

This design felt well communicated, observing as someone from the outside the coven. We did see characters that turned away at various points, or rebounded back to Bloodtide Coven. I could also see the draw of continuing to receive praise until the end.

Agreeing with Falaine above on IC consequence. There's still room to play a redemption arc if that's what's desired.