Think I'm done with conflict when it's one side against another. The other side is too well organised, our side isn't, and I'm not going to go log onto a winning-side alt just to have fun.
You prefer conflicts with only one side? I'm confused.
For all the people with poor reading comprehension skills: "done with conflict when it's one side against another" implies that you can have (and enjoy) conflict with only one side, and that is the part with which I take issue. It's actually a serious question I was posing, though I'm not surprised by the response.
You guys had a pretty good group, though; ours did die once when you were all together, but then it kind of fragmented after the first time it died and never got back into a cohesive collection.
RE: Death - It was a good start, then it kind of fell apart after you guys wiped the first time.
From my end, I just made sure to call targets and told people where to go/meet up and what to do if they're alone. It didn't work all the time, but it worked enough to the point that I always had a capable group with me long enough for the slower types to arrive as well.
Also I have sweet empress and bixes to everywhere.
In short, organization is something that can be taught and has no bearing on one side or the other. I don't even mind anyone asking me things when it comes to strategy.
Yeah, that's half our problem. We have a few people (Rivius, Talan, Aerys) who we recognise as leaders/people to teleport to, but we don't have any sort of coordination beyond that. Only a handful call targets, most of us don't try to synergise our skills with anyone else, and we don't protect each other.
I mean, right at the end I started to harrass Thoros in the tunnels, and your group went right to him. Our side didn't have anything set up like that, we were just out roaming around in small groups.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Think I'm done with conflict when it's one side against another. The other side is too well organised, our side isn't, and I'm not going to go log onto a winning-side alt just to have fun.
You prefer conflicts with only one side? I'm confused.
I do prefer people on my "side" who actually play instead of RP from manses, if that's what you're asking.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Think I'm done with conflict when it's one side against another. The other side is too well organised, our side isn't, and I'm not going to go log onto a winning-side alt just to have fun.
You prefer conflicts with only one side? I'm confused.
I do prefer people on my "side" who actually play instead of RP from manses, if that's what you're asking.
Are we talking about that one individual that went "Oh, I'll be back when things are better then"?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I mean, the state of conflict is lopsided right now. Skills are lopsided, numbers are lopsided, and when things don't go our way, people quit and come back when things are better. There's a large number of people who just don't play until their side is winning, and then they come back or become active. It's annoying, because you can't very well tell them off ICly because they went to another game until the power in the game shifted.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
That's pretty much how threads like this get started. People are not happy, people go somewhere else, and the people who are still around wonder how to make it better again. The cycle never ends, and it never will, but we still have these "discussions" and hope for the best.
The problem with that tends to be... when things get better on our side of the fence and they come back, they're extras that are not really needed and then they shift the balance a bit far in the wrong direction. Dunno... we got Xion last night and it was a case of being prepared and ready to jump at a moment's notice. (Speaking of, I should run more drills), but the situation with Crumkindivia was much different... sure, we got there, sure we shot down a couple of craft... and then ended up losing to overwhelming numbers as usual. And yet, we're still bleeding people, both to other orgs and other games. Not sure what to say at this point beyond... it's getting to be frustrating and painful to try and maintain a happy face... even though the sole point of a game is entertainment and unwinding. This... well, it's feeling much more like work these days.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Yeah, when people get dissatisfied with things, they end up moving to somewhere where things are better for them. It's good that they find enjoyment in the game by doing that, but it hurts the orgs they leave behind too. Our population is way too spread out as it is.
The best you can do is maintain a good attitude and be as optimistic as possible with the new up-and-comers and hope to build your army slowly. Don't worry too much about losses. Take good things from it. Like if you got your whole city/commune to participate in something when you usually have trouble with getting them motivated, doesn't matter if you got swept away. That participation is the seed to future successes. Pep talk and so on helps a lot too. I think the worst thing you can do is shout at people on your side and tell them they suck though (that's aimed at no one in particular, but just something I've seen over the years when people get frustrated with their orgs).
The biggest challenge is making an org attractive to the new player and finding a way to retain them. I've found that if you go out of your way to really form a strong bond with novices and new comers, they're more likely to WANT to stick around because they feel like they belong. But let me tell you, those require a lot of time investment and players who can spare that time and energy.
Think I'm done with conflict when it's one side against another. The other side is too well organised, our side isn't, and I'm not going to go log onto a winning-side alt just to have fun.
You prefer conflicts with only one side? I'm confused.
I do prefer people on my "side" who actually play instead of RP from manses, if that's what you're asking.
Are we talking about that one individual that went "Oh, I'll be back when things are better then"?
My absolute loathing for people like that.
Credit where it's due, you guys never let me get comfortable tonight. I mean sure it's a nightmare when your main target spends 20 minutes in unreachable locations with 10 x 20 point mobs (offtopic note, please revise the point system for death. It shouldn't be about who gets the most icediggers) but you were constantly harassing me, keeping me on my toes and forcing me to abandon places without getting much time to bash there. I'd come back after giving you the slip or once you were held up elsewhere and found out you'd bashed the area out.
Ask Taci, Feyda or Svo how many times I was cursing and going "Erm, where next, where next.." with added swearing. There's a lot of positives you can take from tonight, especially when it came to reorganising and pressure, I sat there watching deathsights going "Ok they wiped, gives me a few minutes he.. WHERE THE F##K DID YOU COME FROM" several times.
I will disagree with the reason why you lost Crumkindivia though, numbers only played a factor after the battle was already lost.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Yeah, when people get dissatisfied with things, they end up moving to somewhere where things are better for them. It's good that they find enjoyment in the game by doing that, but it hurts the orgs they leave behind too. Our population is way too spread out as it is.
The best you can do is maintain a good attitude and be as optimistic as possible with the new up-and-comers and hope to build your army slowly. Don't worry too much about losses. Take good things from it. Like if you got your whole city/commune to participate in something when you usually have trouble with getting them motivated, doesn't matter if you got swept away. That participation is the seed to future successes. Pep talk and so on helps a lot too. I think the worst thing you can do is shout at people on your side and tell them they suck though (that's aimed at no one in particular, but just something I've seen over the years when people get frustrated with their orgs).
The biggest challenge is making an org attractive to the new player and finding a way to retain them. I've found that if you go out of your way to really form a strong bond with novices and new comers, they're more likely to WANT to stick around because they feel like they belong. But let me tell you, those require a lot of time investment and players who can spare that time and energy.
Honestly, the moment I set foot in Hallifax, I felt so welcomed and included and it was really amazing to me. It's not often that happens in some of the other games I've played. That inclusion is one thing that has really kept me around. So what you say is absolutely correct on all points.
No one from Hallifax should feel bad about the outcome of that flare. We got a bubble and had a solid attempt at a second, which was a gutsy move on our part, and did a good defensive game against a stronger ship before getting overwhelmed by a second arrival. We also did that attempt on our own, without trying to call Celest/Seren in at all (which we should have done, if we really wanted to win).
Mistakes and things happen. Need to keep in mind we had some crucial crew roles going, "ogod, how do I <blah>" throughout most of it and there were a lot of first times experimenting with different things and learning in general.
Sometimes, I feel like expectations get a little out of hand and propel us way too far ahead of ourselves. Need to cherish those baby steps and small signs of progress too.
Honestly, I can't rave enough about how good the Battle over Crumkindivia was. Hallifax especially should be proud of their Aethercombat, the use of tactics and bilities as opposed to just spamming grid repair as the empath, having three turrets shoot at a hull (AND ONLY THE HULL) with the occasionally "Oh wait, should we muckle?" thrown in, and a pilot who doesn't just afk at the helm, when people perform the way you guys did, it makes a serious difference.
There should be an Aethership version of War, ship vs ship, best crew wins.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Yeah, that's half our problem. We have a few people (Rivius, Talan, Aerys) who we recognise as leaders/people to teleport to, but we don't have any sort of coordination beyond that. Only a handful call targets, most of us don't try to synergise our skills with anyone else, and we don't protect each other.
I mean, right at the end I started to harrass Thoros in the tunnels, and your group went right to him. Our side didn't have anything set up like that, we were just out roaming around in small groups.
*sigh*
I know that you fought your heart out today to no avail, but the coordination and quality of leadership displayed by the Glom/Mag/Gaudi team is not something that just coalesces overnight. What exists there has been built up and refined among the same core groups of people over the last 6+ years. Our "side" is still very firmly in the herding cats phase.
The true mark of excellence is when you make something look easy, and they certainly made it look easy to steamroll us at every turn today in Death.
The truth is that it's not easy at all. Leading isn't easy. Being a competent follower isn't easy. Working seamlessly together isn't easy at all. I kind of feel like there should be a derpy meme for needs more synergy -- it's so unreasonable to expect that this could ever just magically happen because someone asks for it. It takes fights upon fights upon fights together for team members to realize what their allies can really do, when they're doing it, and how they can work together to capitalize on it with their own abilities. Advanced planning for setups comes well after all of that.
It's very clear after today that our side a lot of ground to cover in pretty much every aspect of large scale group combat, but we did know that going in. Working together well has to be learned and it has to be practiced. This was practice. Exercise. You have to see it that way.
I absolutely understand that it is very demoralizing to get beaten badly, but I agree with @Rivius. This is one of those instances where @Synkarin's refrain about the attitude is totally applicable. I felt worse hearing variations on "Whatever, I'm done" from my allies than I did about getting the utter crap kicked out of me by my enemies. I hope that @Entrias didn't mean what he said about sitting out from now on. I hate when the sentiment is applied here, that 'the only way to win is not to play.' It's so wrong. When it comes to a game that never ends, that's the only way to lose.
-
From reading many of the responses in this thread, I have the vague impression that a lot of winners feel like they don't really get their due. It's as if they think that we think that the only reason they win is because of this advantage or that imbalance. Mechanics aren't everything, and we do know this. Utterly ignoring the point values and damage types and even the individual competitors, Glom/Mag/Gaudi rocked it hard today, and I uncharacteristically, unsarcastically bow to your awesomeness. You guys, operating on all cylinders, win in a way that transcends the numbers or the rewards. I bet you had so much fun.
I say this because it is true, and because I want you to understand that when we losers broach the subject of mechanical changes it is not because we attribute simple mechanics to your victories. We know that there is a lot more to it than that. We know that to match you, we need to improve our teamwork and hone our abilities across the board. I do feel that there are many mechanical advantages winners get that only serve to widen the gap, and I do feel that there are changes that could be made to Lusternia to make it more fair and more enjoyable to a broader section of players - but I also know that this is not the end-all.
I hope this conversation can continue forward under the premise that both mechanical advantages and player aptitude (and attitude) contribute to success.
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited February 2014
Getting your face smeared into the concrete is an inevitable part of learning PK, be it in groups or solo. I'm not talking just losing, even the big guys lose. I'm talking getting your ass handed to you so hard you barely knew what was going on. -We've all experienced it.- There were times when Glom just got obliterated by Fillin and company and we couldn't do anything but stare at each other and wonder wtf happened. You just have to stay positive and take it for the learning experience that it is, and trust in the absolute fact that those people handing you your own ass are able to do so because, at some point, someone handed them theirs.
Getting your face smeared into the concrete is an inevitable part of learning PK, be it in groups or solo. I'm not talking just losing, even the big guys lose. I'm talking getting your ass handed to you so hard you barely knew what was going on. -We've all experienced it.- There were times when Glom just got obliterated by Fillin and company and we couldn't do anything but stare at each other and wonder wtf happened. You just have to stay positive and take it for the learning experience that it is, and trust in the absolute fact that those people handing you your own ass are able to do so because, at some point, someone handed them theirs.
I agree with this, 100% and more. Sometimes, though, it gets really hard to keep that mentality. I'm not pointing any fingers at one thing or person, but it's really difficult to keep a stiff upper lip at times when it feels like a boot is planted squarely in the small of your back whenever you try to pick yourself up. It's the reason I had a ragefit and quit Seren before letting them descend me as VA, before leaving for a month and a half or so. That was immature and the wrong thing to do, but I'd hit a breaking point of sorts. I'd like to think I have a better grasp on the proper mindset, now, but it still can wear a person down after long enough.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "The Challenge of Life has ended!"
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Aerys stands as the Champion of Life!"
Including newer players in raids/raid defense would also help build interest in conflict here. Regardless of if they would die quickly or not, always leave the option open for all players to take part in combat efforts. If they are willing to be smeared all over the planes, let them. Group combat is confusing for countless reasons, one of which is the sheer speed of the text. How else will newer players become accustomed to it if they are not included?
It's easy to gauge which newer players have an interest in combat. If they are interested, invite them along. They'll learn to highlight, and with a little coaching, they can actually prove to be useful. You only need to know how to use what they can offer. A little death never hurt anyone.
Including newer players in raids/raid defense would also help build interest in conflict here. Regardless of if they would die quickly or not, always leave the option open for all players to take part in combat efforts. If they are willing to be smeared all over the planes, let them. Group combat is confusing for countless reasons, one of which is the sheer speed of the text. How else will newer players become accustomed to it if they are not included?
It's easy to gauge which newer players have an interest in combat. If they are interested, invite them along. They'll learn to highlight, and with a little coaching, they can actually prove to be useful. You only need to know how to use what they can offer. A little death never hurt anyone.
Nobody has ever barred players from raid defense as far as I'm aware. Of course, when they are new and take part in five defenses that are lost miserably, what happens next is they go... "ZOMG, THIS SUCKS. BYE!"
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Against my judgement, I was urged to bring this topic up once again. I agree on the one hand, but feel bad about necromancing a thread that's undoubtedly been beaten into the ground already. Anyway.
I love Lusternia. I love the lore, the story, the people, the gameplay, the combat system. My word, the combat is great... in theory. But I feel there are major problems, and my thoughts are likely to be shot down as irrational or not thought through, or what have you.
I love a good fight in Lusternia. I love jumping into a conflict with the hope of potentially coming out victorious, knowing that our side worked well together. I prefer teamwork over solo combat anyway, it's a much more satisfying feeling. What I DON'T like, however, are fights in which we stand absolutely no chance. If it's a fair fight (which yes, I know is a skewed perspective), but I wind up losing, then I can look back and say, "Well damn, we blew it here, here and here. We'll do better." And that's it! I move on, not feeling absolutely ground into the ground.
However, the majority of the time, we run headlong into a situation that we really have little to no chance of winning. The reasons for any one of these occurrances are usually a handful pulled from the same old list. Here are my major thoughts:
1) The majority of the "wealth" congregates together. Players with the higher time and monetary investment flock together like birds (Hallifax pun not intended). Without trying to unfairly disregard a large number of people, on one side you have heavy hitters like Karlach, Munsia, Synkarin, Shuyin, Malarious, Silvanus, or just about any two Illuminati paired together on one side. On the other, you have folks like Vivet, Elanorwen, Kelly, Avurekhos, Caerlyr, or myself. The investment is there on this side, but the numbers are fewer. More importantly, however, the average experience is far lower. As Talan previously mentioned, they have years of practice being leaders in situations like these. They know what works when, and what shouldn't or doesn't.
2) We don't have this experience. And, by-and-large, very few people on our side are willing to grit their teeth and take the impending defeat in hopes of learning something. People don't want to die, they don't want to lose. Hey, I can't blame them really, but it's not solving our problem. They're not practiced at losing gracefully, they don't have the years put in of having ups and downs. They just have downs. Given enough time, they'll break and jump ship to the other side, just so they don't have to be on the losing side (See point 1). I mean hell, it's to the point where -I- am considering jumping to Glomdoring, solely for the reason of not feeling defeat anymore. This solves nothing; in fact, it just makes the problem worse (see point 1 again).
3) Despite arguments all over the forums and envoy reports about it, there DOES seem to be a definite disparity in skills afforded one side versus the other. Am I an expert on these things? No. Was I ever an envoy? I was offered once, and I turned it down. Do I have an encyclopedic knowledge of everything Lusternia like Xenthos, Shuyin or Synkarin? Definitely not. As such, my word is likely to be disregarded. But there ARE people who know more about this kind of thing than I do. A lot of them. And they may or may not agree with me personally, but the general feeling seems to be that abilities are imbalanced or non-synergistic. Or-- my favorite, personally-- a concept which is supposed to span an archtype as a whole across each org, has inconsistency in a single skillset disfavoring our 'side' of the conflict.
In light of the combat overhaul coming, what does this mean? What can be done about it? Not a whole lot, except more waiting. That makes sad. Every time I get to this point, this is usually where I ragequit with the intent of never coming back. But the investment I've put into this game and hope for enjoyment I get in return keeps drawing me back. It's a vicious cycle, and I hate it. It affects me in the real world, at times, and that's clearly unhealthy and wrong.
I'd like to think I'm a fairly seasoned player, and I can't recall things being so disproportionate that I'd even consider deserting to the 'better' side. I really don't want to, when it comes down to it. However, the urge is there, and that seems fundamentally wrong to me. I really do try to stay positive. I try to put forth effort, I try to learn do-betters. I'm at a loss at this point. Can anyone give me some tips or pointers on what to do at this juncture?
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "The Challenge of Life has ended!"
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Aerys stands as the Champion of Life!"
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I feel like domoth upgrades and domoth absolutions are extremely poor vehicles of PvP nowadays. It's a matter of waiting until there's no one on one side to safely secure a powerful buff for your org.
I remember a call for global PvP events, where Avenger status would be ignored but at the same time no one would lose experience and would conglute, just like during the Death challenge. Maybe reopen a discussion on this as a beginning?
I also think that a big part of southern dominance is the sheer experience at regrouping they have. Really on point empressing by Silvanus and Synkarin, somersaulting out of trouble, tumbling, etc. For the northern alliance, it's like one scissorkick and we're dead in the water, especially if Munsia's around polluting and staffing.
Alt-hopping does nothing to repair the situation, all it does is causes the same imbalance since you have someone disappearing from one side and popping up on the other side, albeit in another alt shell. What we really need is another political shakeup at some point.
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
I also think that our targets could use some work, and that some patience needs to be exercised.
Munsia knows full and damn well that we're going to target her first, and even if we don't, it's expected. Nine times out of ten, Munsia is not going to be caught out of position long enough for us to burst her down. And the other one is likely to be empressed away. So who do we go to from there? Literally, I hear on our combat clan "we need to burst down Karlach". What? Excuse me?
I think we should be targeting the people holding the group together -- Synkarin and Silvanus and possibly even Thoros. That's just my opinion, though.
EDIT: Yes, Munsia is a high priority target. No doubt. Her pollute is unbelievable. We need that meld down. So, we need someone to break it. Elanorwen usually runs off and starts doing that on the periphery..........while we charge into the meld. Why in the flying fuck are we not following Elanorwen/Avurekhos as she breaks the meld and sets up her own.
I'll also vouch for alting. It's a lot harder to do these days as feature bloat has increased, and there are far more things for you to miss when you are not playing your main. However, it is still a very liberating experience once you settle in and find your spot.
You might also find that the situations elsewhere aren't as rosy as they might immediately appear and gain more appreciation for your previous state. Then, you can always go back to playing who you were before. Or not, your choice! Either way, you can at least get a sample of atmosphere before dedicating if you really plan to move.
At the end of the day, it's still a game, and the most important thing to do is whatever will be fun for you. If people chasing their fun is creating issues in the game, or is resulting in the game being deserted (because more fun is to be had elsewhere), then it is the administration's job to fix it. Not yours or mine.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Doesn't necessarily need to be something as drastic as that, but every so often (once a year or so) something happens that causes the alliances to shift around to different combinations. The last change in alliances was a little before the 2012/2013 ascendancy event, as far as I remember.
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Forcing players to form alliances didn't always turn so well. I believe it's one reason why we haven't seen it again since.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Not getting burned out and quitting Lusternia > than making sure your side wins.
If you aren't having fun here, something is wrong.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
I mean, right at the end I started to harrass Thoros in the tunnels, and your group went right to him. Our side didn't have anything set up like that, we were just out roaming around in small groups.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Credit where it's due, you guys never let me get comfortable tonight. I mean sure it's a nightmare when your main target spends 20 minutes in unreachable locations with 10 x 20 point mobs (offtopic note, please revise the point system for death. It shouldn't be about who gets the most icediggers) but you were constantly harassing me, keeping me on my toes and forcing me to abandon places without getting much time to bash there. I'd come back after giving you the slip or once you were held up elsewhere and found out you'd bashed the area out.
Ask Taci, Feyda or Svo how many times I was cursing and going "Erm, where next, where next.." with added swearing. There's a lot of positives you can take from tonight, especially when it came to reorganising and pressure, I sat there watching deathsights going "Ok they wiped, gives me a few minutes he.. WHERE THE F##K DID YOU COME FROM" several times.
I will disagree with the reason why you lost Crumkindivia though, numbers only played a factor after the battle was already lost.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Honestly, the moment I set foot in Hallifax, I felt so welcomed and included and it was really amazing to me. It's not often that happens in some of the other games I've played. That inclusion is one thing that has really kept me around. So what you say is absolutely correct on all points.
Mistakes and things happen. Need to keep in mind we had some crucial crew roles going, "ogod, how do I <blah>" throughout most of it and there were a lot of first times experimenting with different things and learning in general.
Sometimes, I feel like expectations get a little out of hand and propel us way too far ahead of ourselves. Need to cherish those baby steps and small signs of progress too.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
*sigh*
I know that you fought your heart out today to no avail, but the coordination and quality of leadership displayed by the Glom/Mag/Gaudi team is not something that just coalesces overnight. What exists there has been built up and refined among the same core groups of people over the last 6+ years. Our "side" is still very firmly in the herding cats phase.
The true mark of excellence is when you make something look easy, and they certainly made it look easy to steamroll us at every turn today in Death.
The truth is that it's not easy at all. Leading isn't easy. Being a competent follower isn't easy. Working seamlessly together isn't easy at all. I kind of feel like there should be a derpy meme for needs more synergy -- it's so unreasonable to expect that this could ever just magically happen because someone asks for it. It takes fights upon fights upon fights together for team members to realize what their allies can really do, when they're doing it, and how they can work together to capitalize on it with their own abilities. Advanced planning for setups comes well after all of that.
It's very clear after today that our side a lot of ground to cover in pretty much every aspect of large scale group combat, but we did know that going in. Working together well has to be learned and it has to be practiced. This was practice. Exercise. You have to see it that way.
I absolutely understand that it is very demoralizing to get beaten badly, but I agree with @Rivius. This is one of those instances where @Synkarin's refrain about the attitude is totally applicable. I felt worse hearing variations on "Whatever, I'm done" from my allies than I did about getting the utter crap kicked out of me by my enemies. I hope that @Entrias didn't mean what he said about sitting out from now on. I hate when the sentiment is applied here, that 'the only way to win is not to play.' It's so wrong. When it comes to a game that never ends, that's the only way to lose.
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From reading many of the responses in this thread, I have the vague impression that a lot of winners feel like they don't really get their due. It's as if they think that we think that the only reason they win is because of this advantage or that imbalance. Mechanics aren't everything, and we do know this. Utterly ignoring the point values and damage types and even the individual competitors, Glom/Mag/Gaudi rocked it hard today, and I uncharacteristically, unsarcastically bow to your awesomeness. You guys, operating on all cylinders, win in a way that transcends the numbers or the rewards. I bet you had so much fun.
I say this because it is true, and because I want you to understand that when we losers broach the subject of mechanical changes it is not because we attribute simple mechanics to your victories. We know that there is a lot more to it than that. We know that to match you, we need to improve our teamwork and hone our abilities across the board. I do feel that there are many mechanical advantages winners get that only serve to widen the gap, and I do feel that there are changes that could be made to Lusternia to make it more fair and more enjoyable to a broader section of players - but I also know that this is not the end-all.
I hope this conversation can continue forward under the premise that both mechanical advantages and player aptitude (and attitude) contribute to success.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I remember a call for global PvP events, where Avenger status would be ignored but at the same time no one would lose experience and would conglute, just like during the Death challenge. Maybe reopen a discussion on this as a beginning?
I also think that a big part of southern dominance is the sheer experience at regrouping they have. Really on point empressing by Silvanus and Synkarin, somersaulting out of trouble, tumbling, etc. For the northern alliance, it's like one scissorkick and we're dead in the water, especially if Munsia's around polluting and staffing.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Munsia knows full and damn well that we're going to target her first, and even if we don't, it's expected. Nine times out of ten, Munsia is not going to be caught out of position long enough for us to burst her down. And the other one is likely to be empressed away. So who do we go to from there? Literally, I hear on our combat clan "we need to burst down Karlach". What? Excuse me?
I think we should be targeting the people holding the group together -- Synkarin and Silvanus and possibly even Thoros. That's just my opinion, though.
EDIT: Yes, Munsia is a high priority target. No doubt. Her pollute is unbelievable. We need that meld down. So, we need someone to break it. Elanorwen usually runs off and starts doing that on the periphery..........while we charge into the meld. Why in the flying fuck are we not following Elanorwen/Avurekhos as she breaks the meld and sets up her own.
You might also find that the situations elsewhere aren't as rosy as they might immediately appear and gain more appreciation for your previous state. Then, you can always go back to playing who you were before. Or not, your choice! Either way, you can at least get a sample of atmosphere before dedicating if you really plan to move.
At the end of the day, it's still a game, and the most important thing to do is whatever will be fun for you. If people chasing their fun is creating issues in the game, or is resulting in the game being deserted (because more fun is to be had elsewhere), then it is the administration's job to fix it. Not yours or mine.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
If you aren't having fun here, something is wrong.