It is an easy button, how you can pretend otherwise just proves the point.
Using terrain to justfiy it being 'hard' when you guys complain about chasm which requires tainted ground? Or maybe it's the 25% mana drain when it was pointed out that druids have always been able to swoop at that level for years (also requires trees, another terrain type!). Oh, and their meld doesn't have two effects that drain mana now.
I'm surprised you for one are arguing this, Mr. I'm not interested in fighting anyone with metawake up because it's too hard to learn how to kill otherwise. That's screaming I only care about an easy button kill.
Also, I don't think you know what non-sequitur means. The only thing I said over envoys was that any reason you had against an egokill applied to manakills as well (controlling sip levels, etc). I acknowledged mana-draining is more prevalent and even suggested higher thresholds to accommodate that point.
So like, arguments are all over the place regarding the Aeromancy mana kill. Silvanus is saying that TK would be a problem,
everyone else thinks Runes (a global skillset) would be the problem. So I'm going to dismiss Silvanus's claim because evidently people think that Runes will be the go-to instead of TK (plus vessels are easy to track and manage); moreover, if you're using RedMasque/EvenBlade/SeersCandle/CrimsonEye to drain mana, you're wasting balances.
Enyalida had a problem with the power cost. It was raised to 5p, so I'm sure that was quelled.
Synkarin tried to get an ego kill in, while providing no solid defense for any tertiary other than Telepathy, thereby locking all combat Aeros into TP (imo, a very boring skillset). Why the balls would anyone want to get someone to 33% ego instead of just killing them at 50% with mindburst. I just saved 2 active power to kill someone who was rampaging through my team members, I think I'm ok with that. An ego kill would've just been another useless instakill, like DysbaricPressure was.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Runes for groups. TK for solo. They are different types of mana pressuring. These are the important nuances envoys should know before power buffing their guilds.
It is an easy button, how you can pretend otherwise just proves the point.
Using terrain to justfiy it being 'hard' when you guys complain about chasm which requires tainted ground? Or maybe it's the 25% mana drain when it was pointed out that druids have always been able to swoop at that level for years (also requires trees, another terrain type!). Oh, and their meld doesn't have two effects that drain mana now.
I'm surprised you for one are arguing this, Mr. I'm not interested in fighting anyone with metawake up because it's too hard to learn how to kill otherwise. That's screaming I only care about an easy button kill.
Also, I don't think you know what non-sequitur means. The only thing I said over envoys was that any reason you had against an egokill applied to manakills as well (controlling sip levels, etc). I acknowledged mana-draining is more prevalent and even suggested higher thresholds to accommodate that point.
No one complains about chasm or swoop, what point are you trying to make other than that you need to quit bitching about Miasma. Two meld effects? Let me call the waahhmbulance. The only thing that's different for Aeros vs BT is access to Phantasms claws and a new meld tick in Northwind. You're overblowing its potency and that's really classless.
Also, no, manakill theorycraft =/= egokill theorycraft when you realize Hallifax has Harmonics Bloodstone, Garnet...aeon..., the previous form of Miasma ( a minor mana drain tick in the Aero demesne -- OH SHIT THAT WAS ALREADY THERE BEFORE AND NO ONE EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT IT LOL) and the global potential of bard minorsixth and blademaster Sentinels. Hallifax doesn't drain ego. Very few skills do. Hallifax drains a lot of mana as a part of its group synergy, but its only outlet has even been Deepsleep. Ahahahahahahah.
I'm surprised you for one are arguing this, Mr. I'm not interested in fighting anyone with metawake up because it's too hard to learn how to kill otherwise. That's screaming I only care about an easy button kill.
I'm not sorry for being a casual PKer. I'm really, really not sorry. That said, I've wanted to go back to Harmonics for some time, but then no one would be barding it up.
You complain about Metawake and Fugue. Just saying.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
No one complains about chasm? Really? @Elanorwen has complained about it plenty
I didn't say people complained about swoop, I said people have said that BT reliably achieve swoop kills quite often and they don't have a meld effect that drains mana....
Phantasm claws is more comparable to belch and stench (which causes passive bleeding for carrion) which is why I didn't bring those up. But turns out you didn't know that so you made a false point, but nice try.
I acknowledged that manadraining was more prevalent than egodraining. I'm not sure why that's even being brought up and it's the reason I suggested higher drains and thresholds for the instakill if it went to an egokill. Again, you seem to be re-hashing points that I agreed with. Reread the last line in the post you quoted of mine. The group kill ability is one reason I stated that I would prefer to see an egokill.
What's classless is making wild accusations like Illuminati locking people down with only ents. I'm sorry you die easily to Illuminati ents because you apparently haven't learned how to deal with them, but that's no one's fault but your own. Just like it was my fault for not keeping metawake up when you got that funebrae kill during nodes that you were super proud of and said so on forums.
Lastly, there's nothing wrong with being a casual PKer -unless- you're trying to balance around being a casual PKer, which you apparently are, which just justifies my point that all people want is easy button kills and don't want to have to learn the nuances and intricacies of their classes in order to compete at higher tiers.
You complain about Metawake and Fugue. Just saying.
I complain about Metawake because it shuts down an entire skillset (Loralaria). Which means the sleeplock probably needs to go. I haven't complained about Fugue since the thread, because I put on my big boy pants and learned to deal with it.
And oh my lord, it's like everyone but Gaudiguch recognizes that Illuminati are completely out of control.
I didn't say people complained about swoop, I said people have said that BT reliably achieve swoop kills quite often and they don't have a meld effect that drains mana....
I think it's been a literal year since I've seen a BT swoop deathsight.
I didn't say people complained about swoop, I said people have said that BT reliably achieve swoop kills quite often and they don't have a meld effect that drains mana....
I think it's been a literal year since I've seen a BT swoop deathsight.
Wouldn't that mostly be attributed to their (Glomdoring's) lack of fighting members for the last year?
You complain about Metawake and Fugue. Just saying.
I complain about Metawake because it shuts down an entire skillset (Loralaria). Which means the sleeplock probably needs to go. I haven't complained about Fugue since the thread, because I put on my big boy pants and learned to deal with it.
And oh my lord, it's like everyone but Gaudiguch recognizes that Illuminati are completely out of control.
You said just Illuminati ents', not Illuminati, but backtracking now I see.
Metawake doesn't shut down Loralaria, it just shuts down you.
The point is is that it's been a long, LONG time (over a year) since anyone's accomplished a Swoop kill. Synkarin's radically misinformed if he quote unquote thinks that "BT reliably achieve swoop kills quite often"
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
When I was BT, all I did was swoop with runes. Was way easy, even Fillin dropped like a brick to haegl spam.
Well I guess someone can envoy double haegl next round. Would fix the glaring group issue and the previously existing concern.
No objection there. Even more glaring when you consider chemwoods where you can double haegl and throw out damage + affliction in one hit for 1p.
As to me complaining about chasm... well, I did say... let's make dysbaric pressure like chasm and everyone else was lolno, let's not do that! Too stronk! Well then... I envoyed something else instead... there's a problem with that too. If the meld passive drain is too strong, I'll be the first to envoy it... but either way, if you're running double haegl spam, you're not actively throwing out the mental afflictions to upkeep the increased northwind drain, so the point rather falls flat... unless you intend to claim that an enemy will decide to not cure possibly crippling mental afflictions like stupidity, paranoia, recklessness, epilepsy, etc, etc.
Bringing up crow swoop and how they need to be on another elevation to contemplate also rather falls flat. Climb up, crow perch and crow swoop can be done on a single balance, so why would you need to contemplate is beyond me... unless you're talking about lag to the excess of 1s in which case your commands will surely be slow enough to where someone could sip/regen in the meantime, but there's a counter to even that where you can make a server-side triple-command alias that will accomplish climb up, crow perch, crow swoop <target> in the time it takes you to send a single command... so again... what is the issue you're trying to bring up here? And it costs them 0p to boot.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The point is is that it's been a long, LONG time (over a year) since anyone's accomplished a Swoop kill. Synkarin's radically misinformed if he quote unquote thinks that "BT reliably achieve swoop kills quite often"
Lack of people performing it recently does not in any way shape or form invalidate that BT achieve swoop kills easily and readily. Even Elanorwen acknowledged that point.
You said just Illuminati ents', not Illuminati, but backtracking now I see.
Oh man, it's like talking to a smug 8-year-old. I'm outtie.
Ahhahaha - the classic Draylor move. Insult and say you're done. You made a claim about Illuminati ents shutting you down. I refuted that, and you made another claim about Illuminati in general in an attempt to refute my point, except I wasn't talking about Illuminati in general, I was talking about Illuminati ents. Got caught with your pants down, so trying to save face. Stay classy @Maligorn
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited March 2015
@elanorwen unless something has changed(possible, I was BT ages ago) perch consumes balance. Either way, swoop requiring the caster to be out of direct contemplation range is very plainly a significant limitation to the skill and acting like it's not does not lend you much credibility. We aren't even going in to a BT's lack of passive mana drain andclaws equivelent. Even then swoop is pretty fantastic and runists can pull it off easily in group fights, and you decided to give yourself a version with unnecessary buffs.
Given, there are also benefits to swoop being usable from a different elevation, but to argue that this report was anything but swoop++ is demonstrative of a lack of some pretty fundamental knowledge at best and flatly disingenuous at worst.
But anyways, I'll look forward to the aeromancer envoy report nerfing haegl slings. Probably should have done that before this report, but alas. You take what you can get.
Edit: arguing that everyone else being unreasonable because you could only come up with copies of really strong existing skills or beefed up versions of existing skills is ridiculous. Please don't.
Edit2: what's really crazy is that Fillin added a mans vitality style skill to low magic specifically to deal with runist BTs.
Crow perch doesn't consume eqbal. Just throwing that out there.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
everyone else thinks Runes (a global skillset) would be the problem. So I'm going to dismiss Silvanus's claim because evidently people think that Runes will be the go-to instead of TK (plus vessels are easy to track and manage); moreover, if you're using RedMasque/EvenBlade/SeersCandle/CrimsonEye to drain mana, you're wasting balances.
Enyalida had a problem with the power cost. It was raised to 5p, so I'm sure that was quelled.
Synkarin tried to get an ego kill in, while providing no solid defense for any tertiary other than Telepathy, thereby locking all combat Aeros into TP (imo, a very boring skillset). Why the balls would anyone want to get someone to 33% ego instead of just killing them at 50% with mindburst. I just saved 2 active power to kill someone who was rampaging through my team members, I think I'm ok with that. An ego kill would've just been another useless instakill, like DysbaricPressure was.
Also, no, manakill theorycraft =/= egokill theorycraft when you realize Hallifax has Harmonics Bloodstone, Garnet...aeon..., the previous form of Miasma ( a minor mana drain tick in the Aero demesne -- OH SHIT THAT WAS ALREADY THERE BEFORE AND NO ONE EVER COMPLAINED ABOUT IT LOL) and the global potential of bard minorsixth and blademaster Sentinels. Hallifax doesn't drain ego. Very few skills do. Hallifax drains a lot of mana as a part of its group synergy, but its only outlet has even been Deepsleep. Ahahahahahahah.
Edit: no one complained about Miasma because you didn't have a mana kill. maligorn, man. Come on.
And oh my lord, it's like everyone but Gaudiguch recognizes that Illuminati are completely out of control.
As to me complaining about chasm... well, I did say... let's make dysbaric pressure like chasm and everyone else was lolno, let's not do that! Too stronk! Well then... I envoyed something else instead... there's a problem with that too. If the meld passive drain is too strong, I'll be the first to envoy it... but either way, if you're running double haegl spam, you're not actively throwing out the mental afflictions to upkeep the increased northwind drain, so the point rather falls flat... unless you intend to claim that an enemy will decide to not cure possibly crippling mental afflictions like stupidity, paranoia, recklessness, epilepsy, etc, etc.
Bringing up crow swoop and how they need to be on another elevation to contemplate also rather falls flat. Climb up, crow perch and crow swoop can be done on a single balance, so why would you need to contemplate is beyond me... unless you're talking about lag to the excess of 1s in which case your commands will surely be slow enough to where someone could sip/regen in the meantime, but there's a counter to even that where you can make a server-side triple-command alias that will accomplish climb up, crow perch, crow swoop <target> in the time it takes you to send a single command... so again... what is the issue you're trying to bring up here? And it costs them 0p to boot.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Signature!
I am more than happy to discuss and envoy it if you provide proof, else I'll have to call bullshit.
Still down about haegl.
Double haegl would solve the issue pretty neatly.
Illuminati ents fixed.
Given, there are also benefits to swoop being usable from a different elevation, but to argue that this report was anything but swoop++ is demonstrative of a lack of some pretty fundamental knowledge at best and flatly disingenuous at worst.
But anyways, I'll look forward to the aeromancer envoy report nerfing haegl slings. Probably should have done that before this report, but alas. You take what you can get.
Edit: arguing that everyone else being unreasonable because you could only come up with copies of really strong existing skills or beefed up versions of existing skills is ridiculous. Please don't.
Edit2: what's really crazy is that Fillin added a mans vitality style skill to low magic specifically to deal with runist BTs.