Tweets VI: The Tweetsixteenth

Ayisdra · December 2014

Saesh said:

There's an important distinction between "not listening" and "not doing what we want." I can say, with certainty, the complaints are heard. Simply because those complaints don't directly translate to a vocal individual's or group's expectations does not mean they were not heard. If I responded to every demand of every vocal player or group, PK would be very boring because half of your skills would be deleted.

While not on PK, but on the topic of Curios, saying 'they sell well' when we say "we don't want them' is also related in the same way.

For example, my mother buys the new season of a tv show she watches every year on dvd (cost is about 40-50USD). The only reason she buys it is because she got the first few seasons as a gift years ago and keeps buying them to complete the series dvd collection. I know for a fact she will never watch the dvds, she won't even remove the plastic wrap. It will just gather dust.

Just because something sells well, doesn't mean people like it, in cases of collections. Some people have a wanting to complete things, even if they will never use it, no matter what the cost.

Riluna · December 2014

Saesh said:

There's an important distinction between "not listening" and "not doing what we want." I can say, with certainty, the complaints are heard. Simply because those complaints don't directly translate to a vocal individual's or group's expectations does not mean they were not heard. If I responded to every demand of every vocal player or group, PK would be very boring because half of your skills would be deleted.

To be fair, both of these can look identical, when they go completely unacknowledged and the same stuff continues happening unchanged. To some, both of those together translates into a pretty clear message of "I don't care at all what you have to say." It seems more like some people are indeed paying for them, and the only thing that is important is that cash flow.

An IG poll might help you guys actually find out what the true current consensus is closer to (I do realize the forums are a vocal minority). It's just a shame there's a lot of people who will never participate in it, though. I personally know three people I tried to get to play, who have very directly mentioned curios/collectibles as at least part of the reason they're not interested.

Lerad · December 2014

Kurut said:

Dear random people of Lusternia. If, for some reason (and this is rare), I attack you, it's okay to run. It's also okay to turn around and murder me, because I am terrible at PVP. But if you choose to run away, leave a snarky comment, then immediately snub me... that's just more motivation for me to get better and grief you until you cry.

People who abuse snub are lame, and those who feel entitled to having a safe bashing run even when in a PK-free zone are laughable. What's more, snarky comments that derives from jealousy and frustration aren't actually snarky at all, and are just the howls of a person who can't take a loss.

That doesn't mean it's carte blanche to make threats and act like you're the boss of PK-etiquette. Well, actually, you CAN make threats and act like you're the boss of PK-etiquette, but that's basically the same thing they're doing - having a preconception of how a PK interaction should go (ie. the way you want it) and throwing a tantrum when it doesn't.

Kurut · December 2014

I'm not the boss of anything. I simply stated it was motivation for me to get better and keep doing what I was doing. Not sure how everything can be a personal affront. o_O

Lerad · December 2014

Kurut said:

... that's just more motivation for me to get better and grief you until you cry.

That sounded like a threat to me - "If you don't bow and give me a nod and say "good day, sir", I'll get better and grief you until you cry."

But hey, if I read that wrongly, then yeah, my bad. Good for you. It's always nice to have new PKers to play with (when I have time to play).

Saesh · December 2014

Riluna said:

Saesh said:

There's an important distinction between "not listening" and "not doing what we want." I can say, with certainty, the complaints are heard. Simply because those complaints don't directly translate to a vocal individual's or group's expectations does not mean they were not heard. If I responded to every demand of every vocal player or group, PK would be very boring because half of your skills would be deleted.

To be fair, both of these can look identical, when they go completely unacknowledged and the same stuff continues happening unchanged. To some, both of those together translates into a pretty clear message of "I don't care at all what you have to say." It seems more like some people are indeed paying for them, and the only thing that is important is that cash flow.

An IG poll might help you guys actually find out what the true current consensus is closer to (I do realize the forums are a vocal minority). It's just a shame there's a lot of people who will never participate in it, though. I personally know three people I tried to get to play, who have very directly mentioned curios/collectibles as at least part of the reason they're not interested.

They can, but in this case, they don't. The benefits of curios have been addressed in response to issues raised by players (incidentally we didn't arrive at this conclusion from the ever insightful "Spork the admin!"). Curios continue to sell, and that in and of itself is evidence of a desire for their continuation. Many promotions did not reoccur because they did not sell. This is also an example of listening. The evidence of admin listening is abundant. Some here are creating a false dilemma in that the admin either remove curios and "get it," or they don't delete curious and are ignoring the players, and in that scenario we wouldn't be listening. However, that is not a realistic scenario.

Edit: As to Ayisdra's scenario, it would be a bizaar business practice to stop marketing a profitable product based on the assumption people are buying things zombie style but actually hate it and just can't help themselves.

Synkarin · December 2014

Allow people to change their censers with aethergoop!

Lerad · December 2014

Saesh said:

Riluna said:

Saesh said:

There's an important distinction between "not listening" and "not doing what we want." I can say, with certainty, the complaints are heard. Simply because those complaints don't directly translate to a vocal individual's or group's expectations does not mean they were not heard. If I responded to every demand of every vocal player or group, PK would be very boring because half of your skills would be deleted.

To be fair, both of these can look identical, when they go completely unacknowledged and the same stuff continues happening unchanged. To some, both of those together translates into a pretty clear message of "I don't care at all what you have to say." It seems more like some people are indeed paying for them, and the only thing that is important is that cash flow.

An IG poll might help you guys actually find out what the true current consensus is closer to (I do realize the forums are a vocal minority). It's just a shame there's a lot of people who will never participate in it, though. I personally know three people I tried to get to play, who have very directly mentioned curios/collectibles as at least part of the reason they're not interested.

They can, but in this case, they don't. The benefits of curios have been addressed in response to issues raised by players (incidentally we didn't arrive at this conclusion from the ever insightful "Spork the admin!"). Curios continue to sell, and that in and of itself is evidence of a desire for their continuation. Many promotions did not reoccur because they did not sell. This is also an example of listening. The evidence of admin listening is abundant. Some here are creating a false dilemma in that the admin either remove curios and "get it," or they don't delete curious and are ignoring the players, and in that scenario we wouldn't be listening. However, that is not a realistic scenario.

Edit: As to Ayisdra's scenario, it would be a bizaar business practice to stop marketing a profitable product based on the assumption people are buying things zombie style but actually hate it and just can't help themselves.

By the way, I've been ignoring this conversation just as much as I've ignored curios in the game for the past few months, because I'm not really interested in them, but I want to give a bit of an extra perspective.

I don't really care for curios. It's possible to even make the argument that I hate them. I have, however, the full genie bottles, and 1 and 2 halves of the vernal curios, and half the soulless curios. I haven't completed the soulless set yet, but I still occasionally hit up Lirangsha and half do the quest there just because I still toy with the idea of completing my soulless set. I farmed the mirror armies and the kiakodan reserve and the catacombs (back when it was still grindable) for my vernal curios, and one day, when I complete the other two incomplete sets I have half-built, I intend to sell it off for a little bit of extra classflex pocket-change.

I still dislike curios. I burned out on doing the vernal curio quests for months once, and after that, I decided to take it slow and just do it with the intention of completing it sometime in the next century.

The draw of curios, or of collectibles in general, does not necessarily co-relate to player satisfaction. While I do not harbor illusions that my opinion is shared by the majority of the people playing this game, I do not think it is very far off the mark to claim that collectibles, and curios in particular, are creating discontent amongst players. Now, being unable to stop collecting them even though you don't like it is not a bad thing - if it provides revenue, it's even a good thing financially. IRE gets to make some money, this game we play gets to go on for that much longer, hire more stuff, upgrade more servers, deliver more content.

To say that the admin "listens" by continuing curios because curio releases reflect increase in sales certainly is not false - but whether or not they are listening to the players or listening to the clink of money in the bank account is an entirely debatable matter.

Of course, that doesn't validate verbal abuse of the admin. But it is important to be aware that sales does not necessarily mean a happy playerbase.

Arcanis · December 2014

Yay, a debate about the ethics of 'listening' and the different avenues it can be used in.

This is very interesting..

Let's get back to the current event topic.

Shaddus · December 2014

I don't think the issue is "whether curios sell", it's more "When the frag are we going to have something that isn't a curio reward"?

Riluna · December 2014

Saesh said:

Riluna said:

Saesh said:

There's an important distinction between "not listening" and "not doing what we want." I can say, with certainty, the complaints are heard. Simply because those complaints don't directly translate to a vocal individual's or group's expectations does not mean they were not heard. If I responded to every demand of every vocal player or group, PK would be very boring because half of your skills would be deleted.

To be fair, both of these can look identical, when they go completely unacknowledged and the same stuff continues happening unchanged. To some, both of those together translates into a pretty clear message of "I don't care at all what you have to say." It seems more like some people are indeed paying for them, and the only thing that is important is that cash flow.

An IG poll might help you guys actually find out what the true current consensus is closer to (I do realize the forums are a vocal minority). It's just a shame there's a lot of people who will never participate in it, though. I personally know three people I tried to get to play, who have very directly mentioned curios/collectibles as at least part of the reason they're not interested.

They can, but in this case, they don't. The benefits of curios have been addressed in response to issues raised by players (incidentally we didn't arrive at this conclusion from the ever insightful "Spork the admin!"). Curios continue to sell, and that in and of itself is evidence of a desire for their continuation. Many promotions did not reoccur because they did not sell. This is also an example of listening. The evidence of admin listening is abundant. Some here are creating a false dilemma in that the admin either remove curios and "get it," or they don't delete curious and are ignoring the players, and in that scenario we wouldn't be listening. However, that is not a realistic scenario.

Edit: As to Ayisdra's scenario, it would be a bizaar business practice to stop marketing a profitable product based on the assumption people are buying things zombie style but actually hate it and just can't help themselves.

I'm not trying to be snarky, I am just confused by some of your statements. What issue do the marionettes address?

That the curios sell do indeed show that some people are interested. I'm glad to know that the admin realize others aren't, at all. (And some of us really do appreciate the attention on RP stuff lately). It's just my opinion that all the "novelty collections" add nothing good to this game, cash drive or no.

The part of this that actually upsets me is gnomes (one of the most anticipated features, this time of year), being completely hijacked for curios. If you guys do realize that a lot of us are apathetic about curios at best, why why why why has the excitement of the gnomes been completely taken away?

Arcanis · December 2014

Dear Admin,

I understand you try to make these quests to include more of the players by reducing the respawn time of marionettes/fae/<future quest> , but it seems you have forgotten to reset their influenced states. As such, they are appearing to us already influenced still, and we have to wait the 30 min timer to be able to get any, thus, working against your original attempt of making it include more.

Before you do happen to reset influence times, I'd like to throw in that the sugarplum fae also need to have the fruits on them...thus hopefully that would reset too.

Thank you.

Shaddus · December 2014

I think it's better to eat the sugarplums than it is to turn them in. Just saying.

Portius · December 2014

@Saesh If you're allowed to say, which promotions did poorly? I am a curious person.

Synkarin · December 2014

Gnewpies, aethergoop had like a 2 month stint

Elanorwen · December 2014

Synkarin said:

Gnewpies, aethergoop had like a 2 month stint

The bubble curios tanked pretty hard, too.

Shaddus · December 2014

I wasn't very enthused about the gnewpies and bubble curios, but the aethergoop was pretty damned awesome. It wouldn't have tanked if we could sell it or transfer it or just buy it outright.

Saesh · December 2014

Riluna said:

Saesh said:

Riluna said:

Saesh said:

There's an important distinction between "not listening" and "not doing what we want." I can say, with certainty, the complaints are heard. Simply because those complaints don't directly translate to a vocal individual's or group's expectations does not mean they were not heard. If I responded to every demand of every vocal player or group, PK would be very boring because half of your skills would be deleted.

To be fair, both of these can look identical, when they go completely unacknowledged and the same stuff continues happening unchanged. To some, both of those together translates into a pretty clear message of "I don't care at all what you have to say." It seems more like some people are indeed paying for them, and the only thing that is important is that cash flow.

An IG poll might help you guys actually find out what the true current consensus is closer to (I do realize the forums are a vocal minority). It's just a shame there's a lot of people who will never participate in it, though. I personally know three people I tried to get to play, who have very directly mentioned curios/collectibles as at least part of the reason they're not interested.

They can, but in this case, they don't. The benefits of curios have been addressed in response to issues raised by players (incidentally we didn't arrive at this conclusion from the ever insightful "Spork the admin!"). Curios continue to sell, and that in and of itself is evidence of a desire for their continuation. Many promotions did not reoccur because they did not sell. This is also an example of listening. The evidence of admin listening is abundant. Some here are creating a false dilemma in that the admin either remove curios and "get it," or they don't delete curious and are ignoring the players, and in that scenario we wouldn't be listening. However, that is not a realistic scenario.

Edit: As to Ayisdra's scenario, it would be a bizaar business practice to stop marketing a profitable product based on the assumption people are buying things zombie style but actually hate it and just can't help themselves.

I'm not trying to be snarky, I am just confused by some of your statements. What issue do the marionettes address?

That the curios sell do indeed show that some people are interested. I'm glad to know that the admin realize others aren't, at all. (And some of us really do appreciate the attention on RP stuff lately). It's just my opinion that all the "novelty collections" add nothing good to this game, cash drive or no.

The part of this that actually upsets me is gnomes (one of the most anticipated features, this time of year), being completely hijacked for curios. If you guys do realize that a lot of us are apathetic about curios at best, why why why why has the excitement of the gnomes been completely taken away?

I didn't say they addressed anything specifically. The older curio benefits raised a lot of thoughtful concern regarding the meta and PK, so the subsequent curios have generally tended to provide perks that weren't "required." Evidence that the admin do listen.

Well, we are fortunate to be a part of such a diverse game. The admin certainly recognize that some people don't like curios. Then again, some (a lot of people) of people don't like pk. Some people think peaced revolts are terrible, boring ideas. Some people thought choke was the worst game breaking mechanic ever and that the game (people literally said this) was not worth playing so long as choke existed. Others thought choke was not only fine, but grossly overexagerated and preferred to fight people who used choke because they could take advantage of it. There's a dynamic to problem solving that is visible as an admin that is not always visible to players. It's a balancing act.

Edit: But anyways, my goal isn't really to change any minds, but to hopefully show we aren't just ignoring you. Most of us are volunteers, and the other admin really invest themselves into the work they do behind the scenes because they care. There's no tangeable benefit for them. People who don't listen don't care to the degree that the people I've had the fortune to work with in the havens do. So maybe my responses helped, maybe not. Let's get back to TWEETS!

Annick · December 2014

must resist urge to contest even though it's just me ands newbies for days on end

Cthazoth · December 2014

RWHO is ever so lonely.

Why does no one wants to be a short, ugly psychic soulless vampire?

Arcanis · December 2014

Can we be allowed to kill sugarplum faes? They are extremely annoying to look at and invulnerable mobs bug me (since somehow magically we cant touch them......RPz).

I dont care if they dont even drop a damn fruit. I want to squish it.

Ayisdra · December 2014

Cthazoth said:

RWHO is ever so lonely.

Why does no one wants to be a short, ugly psychic soulless vampire?

Those with cloaking gems don't show up on rwho.

Lavinya · December 2014

Bring back the chance to get coins from rubbing curios. The wheel has been horribly nerfed anyway, but at least it gives me a chance to recoup some of the value for the curio pieces I have bought. I spent a lot more buying packs so I could increase the chances of getting the one I want than I would have buying precisely what I want. And please make it possible to curio rub curio confirm without listing the number again so I can get rid of them without needing some fancy script.

Estarra · December 2014

Rock meet hard place! Just pointing out that the complaints I heard were about curios that impacted combat which we've been trying to avoid. No one is twisting your arm to get these curios and they won't impact combat. Also, I really don't understand complaints about free marionette curios as part of a little event. In any event, I'm certainly open to alternate suggestions if someone cares to open a discussion in the ideas section!

Riluna · December 2014

Estarra said:

Rock meet hard place! Just pointing out that the complaints I heard were about curios that impacted combat which we've been trying to avoid. No one is twisting your arm to get these curios and they won't impact combat. Also, I really don't understand complaints about free marionette curios as part of a little event. In any event, I'm certainly open to alternate suggestions if someone cares to open a discussion in the ideas section!

The ridiculous number of curious, and thus the grind to get one you might actually even want, is also a common complaint.

EDIT: That the gnomes, which were a source of establishing myself as a novice (where I then went to buy a couple more shinies), are now hijacked for another curio farming quest (which I have zero interest in, compared with my joy at a seeing a novice pull a brand new shiny paintbrush for themselves), is my personal complaint.

Lavinya · December 2014

The issue isn't that curios are game breaking anymore (though I would still love to make a genie set, however chances of completing it within the next year are slim), it's that through the sheer number of different types, it is getting harder and harder to complete a curio. I think most of the curios available are super nifty - I hate having to buy a new curio pack each time another one comes out, because all the pieces I have are from old types and are extremely unlikely to turn into the new curio type. For example, I thought the hair was awesome, and in the end I spent around 300 credits buying the packs just to have a greater chance of getting the pieces I wanted (I admit to being impatient and going a bit over the top). I completed a few wigs, but now I have 186 + a bunch of partials just sitting there pointlessly. Sure, I could turn them into 18 curios - except it is so incredibly difficult to find the pieces! A rare isn't so rare when there's only 100 curio pieces in existance, when there are thousands? Curios have become a matter of buy as many as you can afford now and try and complete it while other people are also building the same one, or it will be almost impossible or take a long long time to get it made.

tl;dr I really like a lot of these curios. Most of them, to be honest. I don't like the collection aspect anymore, because with each new release, it is getting harder, and woe to the person who cannot buy credits that month that wants that curio, they are in for the hardest time of all. It's tiresome, not a fun little side aspect of the game.

I would have bought marionettes outright (probably more than one!) if it were for sale for dingbats or credits. I would have probably still bought a couple of wigs (I like variety). I would have bought genie bottles, poteen pots, treasure map, along with the buff/resistance/travel/enchant sets. The novelty of collecting has long worn off.

Shaddus · December 2014

It's not so much that we don't like curios, more that for the last long while, there are always new pieces showing up. When curios were introduced they were supposed to be rare, collectible pieces left from the Czigany Coast. Now, everyone and their uncle suddenly rewards you with a curio piece for getting their cat out of a tree.

I used to sit around at the end of the month wondering what amazing deal, promotion, or storyline addition You would come up with, Estarra. Now I just shrug mentally and wonder what sort of new curio is going to show up.

Neos · December 2014

I want my Craken back.

Xeltha · December 2014

ii cake
Number of matching objects: 1085 (out of 1153 total)

My life is a box of chocolates cupcakes.

And now we preserve.

Daraius · December 2014

omg that's like me irl @-)

Tweets VI: The Tweetsixteenth

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