I have managed to shatter Xenthos and glom faelings as an illy hood and viscanti during village revolts.... So I don't understand why people don't think it takes skill and planning
1) Shadowlords have a large charisma penalty, and 2) I don't tend to get shattered much because I am one of those "it's better to just walk away so you can keep influencing" people; I tend to only get shattered when we're not competing for the village and I'm willing to take it to all the way to "the next person who chooses incorrectly loses". Even so, it doesn't happen that often! Village influence is hugely different from Justice because in villages you can actually... y'know... move.
I personally have taken up debating during the "gloriously enjoyable" peaced revolts, and have actually done quite well for myself. It took me just some minutes to code up the necessary triggers and I somehow became 'good'. In truth, I heard so many complaints of how boring the concept is...to the point people were actually shouting it. Does no one recall the estelbar peaced revolt some months back that went on for hours?
I just wish such a mechanic focused on speech and pacifist assault was made more...interesting, if not challenging. It just feels like such a waste to make a seal event focused on it.
What's peaced revolts got to do with debate mechanics? You only ever debate in peaced revolts to stop people from diverting, or to shatter lowbies so they can't prevent you from starting an influence. Or because you're a PKer and don't influence. Peaced revolts last long only because of revolt (influence) mechanics, absolutely zero to do with debate mechanics.
Debate has a high skill floor and a low skill ceiling when compared to something like full on PvP. That gives the impression that it is based on luck. Against mediocre debaters, it can very well be based on luck simply because even though they are mediocre, the high skill floor will still give them a chance at just beating you by fluke. However, when both are playing at a high level, luck doesn't have much of a say. Preparation is one thing, and high charisma, for the points Malarious mentioned, is always the most important factor. Always. However, that doesn't mean all other factors are negligible. Illithoid actually make very good debaters (if you make the effort to boost your charisma up to a decent level) because of their high max ego. I've shattered warbling trills before as an illithoid. High max ego gives me bigger sips, lets me tank the big end-game hits a little more than my opponent. In the end game, when I'm dealing thousands of ego damage with 13 cha anyway, it is the person who reads the opponent's mindset and who plays his own mindset properly that will win.
The reason people randomize their debates is because it is outrageously rigged to be advantageous in revolts. Those who fully randomize has a random chance of winning or losing, is all, and in revolts, you get as many tries as the revolt lasts. If you can get a 50/50 chance of shattering a diverter or an influencer in the chaos of a revolt, that's far more efficient in preparation time than to invest hours of planning and preparation and buff farming. And because of the random timings of revolts, you can never be fully prepared. All the more so if you're not a primary debater (no one is a primary debater in revolts, like I mentioned above). If you're a watcher, go full random and engage an influencer that comes into your room in the hopes they'll take up your challenge seeing you as an easy prey. You lose... well, you still watch. You win, boom. One less influencer on their side. If you're a diverter, you run as fast as you can, keeping away from anyone who remotely looks like they are going to debate you. If you're an influencer, you stack cha buffs, and get a rituals chanter to heal your ego while you ignore all the debaters, and give them the middle finger while you win the village. If you're a primary debater, you need to re-consider your priorities in a revolt.
In Justice, you either spend hundreds of hours planning and preparing and then trying for the win, or you sit back and watch the show.
@Lerad I debate at any chance I get (I'm lame like that). If I campaign for crusade, shatter someone and then snag the mob then I get Nice Reward. If I fail? Perish the thought.
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2) I don't tend to get shattered much because I am one of those "it's better to just walk away so you can keep influencing" people; I tend to only get shattered when we're not competing for the village and I'm willing to take it to all the way to "the next person who chooses incorrectly loses". Even so, it doesn't happen that often! Village influence is hugely different from Justice because in villages you can actually... y'know... move.
I just wish such a mechanic focused on speech and pacifist assault was made more...interesting, if not challenging. It just feels like such a waste to make a seal event focused on it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Debate has a high skill floor and a low skill ceiling when compared to something like full on PvP. That gives the impression that it is based on luck. Against mediocre debaters, it can very well be based on luck simply because even though they are mediocre, the high skill floor will still give them a chance at just beating you by fluke. However, when both are playing at a high level, luck doesn't have much of a say. Preparation is one thing, and high charisma, for the points Malarious mentioned, is always the most important factor. Always. However, that doesn't mean all other factors are negligible. Illithoid actually make very good debaters (if you make the effort to boost your charisma up to a decent level) because of their high max ego. I've shattered warbling trills before as an illithoid. High max ego gives me bigger sips, lets me tank the big end-game hits a little more than my opponent. In the end game, when I'm dealing thousands of ego damage with 13 cha anyway, it is the person who reads the opponent's mindset and who plays his own mindset properly that will win.
The reason people randomize their debates is because it is outrageously rigged to be advantageous in revolts. Those who fully randomize has a random chance of winning or losing, is all, and in revolts, you get as many tries as the revolt lasts. If you can get a 50/50 chance of shattering a diverter or an influencer in the chaos of a revolt, that's far more efficient in preparation time than to invest hours of planning and preparation and buff farming. And because of the random timings of revolts, you can never be fully prepared. All the more so if you're not a primary debater (no one is a primary debater in revolts, like I mentioned above). If you're a watcher, go full random and engage an influencer that comes into your room in the hopes they'll take up your challenge seeing you as an easy prey. You lose... well, you still watch. You win, boom. One less influencer on their side. If you're a diverter, you run as fast as you can, keeping away from anyone who remotely looks like they are going to debate you. If you're an influencer, you stack cha buffs, and get a rituals chanter to heal your ego while you ignore all the debaters, and give them the middle finger while you win the village. If you're a primary debater, you need to re-consider your priorities in a revolt.
In Justice, you either spend hundreds of hours planning and preparing and then trying for the win, or you sit back and watch the show.