It's a more recent Mag tradition, especially under the Munsy regime, to have bigger squads be OOC simply because they were going to be that way whether you stayed in character or not.
@Rideta The administration considers squads as IC as much as we consider citytells or guildtells as in-character channels.
Shiptells as well IIRC.
Take great care of yourselves and each other.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Everything, even clantells, are treated as IC by the powers that be.
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Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Yeah I get that *All* communication is IC, fine, but seriously. A lot of big bashes I go on tend to have OOC Squadt going down, and somebody brought it to my attention that such a thing was actually odd to them. I'd done it way back when squads were first a thing and never thought twice about it, so I guess it was easy to slip back into that habit again when I started playing once more.
How do you guys handle it?
Strong supporter of them being IC, if not only for the decency of not forcing people to hear OOC banter if they don't want to. I'm not certain if it's possible to SQUADTELLS OFF or somesuch, but if not it's a bit unfair for people not being able to join in hunts without being subjected to it.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
Yeah I get that *All* communication is IC, fine, but seriously. A lot of big bashes I go on tend to have OOC Squadt going down, and somebody brought it to my attention that such a thing was actually odd to them. I'd done it way back when squads were first a thing and never thought twice about it, so I guess it was easy to slip back into that habit again when I started playing once more.
How do you guys handle it?
Squads are IC. There are some people in Magnagora who like to try to make them OOC, which I find frustrating.
If a Magnagoran joins a squad I am in, I have to send them tells saying the squad is IC when they start talking about dinner (as an example, this actually happened the last time a Magnagoran joined a Glomsquad I was part of). I generally just don't join Magnagoran squads at all, because of the OOC.
There are OOC "parties" in other IREs which serve the purpose that the squad channel serves here, which are also considered OOC (I think, haven't logged onto the other IREs in a long while) to facilitate that kind of coordination. In Lusternia, there's been a tradition of turning to "combat clans" for that kind of coordination, and the use of full blown OOC clans for the chat that you engage in during grinding. However, when you're grinding with a group that consists of cross-org individuals, there's no common clan that everyone can use to communicate in that manner. Secondly, if you use a combat clan or even an OOC clan for that, you're likely imposing on other people in the clan who's not part of the bashing party with your idle chatter.
As a game, idle chatter during grind is not really something unreasonable. It's just that there's no real outlet for it other than squads, and even that's not a legitimate outlet according to admin policy and the rules. As a largely individual grinder, I'm used to venting my grind boredom via youtube medleys or chatting via IRC, when each participant in the chat is there to bring their individual and current experience into a motley conversation anyway, and no one cares if I'm bringing in something they don't understand or aren't participating in. Keeping it out of the game comes naturally when you grind alone. But when you do it as a group? Let's just say I can understand the motivation behind why it happens, even if I don't participate or do it myself.
On the other hand, I'm not really keen on seeing additional "squad-like" channels added to the game - it can be confusing, to say the least.
Edit: As an additional note, this tendency doesn't just happen in Mag. It happens in all IRE games - hell, it happens in all MMO/MUDs. It just so happens that some Mag players have internalised it as a more acceptable activity than others - for good or ill.
Everything, even clantells, are treated as IC by the powers that be.
The difference being with clantells, we will look the other way on OOC chatter and allow clanheads to police that themselves for the most part. We will police squadt if we overhear OOC on it, though.
So you guys have nothing better to do than snoop on squadt?
I don't know that we have ever looked at squadt because we have no reason to join a squad. It is meant to be IC, though, and if someone issued over it or we overheard it for whatever reason then there it is.
Current drafts and pending (though I think after a certain about of days that changes?) can't be viewed outside your own guild report. Submitted and beyond are all publicly accessible.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I'm not logged in right now, so quick question. Can anyone view envoy reports or is it just enovys?
You can always see envoy reports of your guild, you can see all envoy reports who are in the states finalized and later in the process ( means you can't see drafts and pending unless the are from your guild ), but all reports finalized and higher from any guild are visible using 'REPORT LIST'
Regarding squads, the equivalent in other IREs tend to be viewed as OOC by default. I didn't know squads were IC until I saw forum posts. Kinda a bummer, I miss that OOC chat outlet. Clans get too negative but webs in Aetolia were always a lot more fun and lighthearted.
It would be nice if people could read the envoy reports in progress just for info. I mean all that happens is they get copy pasted so making them read for all would save people pestering envoys.
Alternatively, there are good reasons that envoys might want to keep an in-the-works report for envoys-and-people-envoys-let-see-it eyes only and there are perfectly easy ways for envoys who want public input at early stages of a report to get that input. So it's more or less fine as it is.
It would be cool if there was another stage between pending and submitted that let anyone read it, but that's getting fiddly.
There's certainly a benefit to having a report marked ready for general comments by envoys, who can see them on the basic REPORT LIST and know that you're ready for comments. That doesn't necessarily mean they're good for full public review, particularly if they're on some subject destined to draw flak.
Alternatively, there are good reasons that envoys might want to keep an in-the-works report for envoys-and-people-envoys-let-see-it eyes only and there are perfectly easy ways for envoys who want public input at early stages of a report to get that input. So it's more or less fine as it is.
It would be cool if there was another stage between pending and submitted that let anyone read it, but that's getting fiddly.
But as was pointed out when I raised this before, there's really no actual difference. If I really want to see what was in any report (even drafts) I could ask an envoy or someone from the guild to copy paste it for me, or depending on the guild even just log into an alt.
Pending not being visible does not really prevent people from finding out what's in the report, drafts don't even do that, those stages are just less convenient than submitted or later.
The system is also likely going to need a rework given factions are coming in as faction envoys seem unlikely to work out in the long run.
I mean most of the good envoys are asking for public or general feed back on any of the major changes before they pop it through anyway so it'd be just a time saver for them to make it publicly readable.
The system is also likely going to need a rework given factions are coming in as faction envoys seem unlikely to work out in the long run.
Well, probably not. Right now, class and guild are identical; when the faction system comes in, it'd be "easy" to just substitute guild for class. Each class has an envoy, and everyone of that class can read their reports.
The system is also likely going to need a rework given factions are coming in as faction envoys seem unlikely to work out in the long run.
Well, probably not. Right now, class and guild are identical; when the faction system comes in, it'd be "easy" to just substitute guild for class. Each class has an envoy, and everyone of that class can read their reports.
Yeah, but do you consider only the active class or every class that you potentially have access to? I have classflexing permission for three classes, so it would seem like it makes sense that I'd be able to see all things relating to them rather than switching around what can be seen based on current class. But at that point, wouldn't it just be simpler to allow anyone in the org that you're from to see all your reports.
Anyway, the belief that the current system somehow stops people from finding out what's in a report is patently false, it just makes it inconvenient. As an example, I wanted to see what 1578 contained last night, it took like an hour maybe just because contacting someone but like as soon as I was able to I had the whole thing in pastebin.
No, I would pick the 5 of the most knowledgeable players regardless of their class. The current system literally forces consideration of someone from each class and we see how well that worked out.
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Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
If a Magnagoran joins a squad I am in, I have to send them tells saying the squad is IC when they start talking about dinner (as an example, this actually happened the last time a Magnagoran joined a Glomsquad I was part of). I generally just don't join Magnagoran squads at all, because of the OOC.
As a game, idle chatter during grind is not really something unreasonable. It's just that there's no real outlet for it other than squads, and even that's not a legitimate outlet according to admin policy and the rules. As a largely individual grinder, I'm used to venting my grind boredom via youtube medleys or chatting via IRC, when each participant in the chat is there to bring their individual and current experience into a motley conversation anyway, and no one cares if I'm bringing in something they don't understand or aren't participating in. Keeping it out of the game comes naturally when you grind alone. But when you do it as a group? Let's just say I can understand the motivation behind why it happens, even if I don't participate or do it myself.
On the other hand, I'm not really keen on seeing additional "squad-like" channels added to the game - it can be confusing, to say the least.
Edit: As an additional note, this tendency doesn't just happen in Mag. It happens in all IRE games - hell, it happens in all MMO/MUDs. It just so happens that some Mag players have internalised it as a more acceptable activity than others - for good or ill.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Can anyone view envoy reports or is it just enovys?
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
You can always see envoy reports of your guild, you can see all envoy reports who are in the states finalized and later in the process ( means you can't see drafts and pending unless the are from your guild ), but all reports finalized and higher from any guild are visible using 'REPORT LIST'
It would be cool if there was another stage between pending and submitted that let anyone read it, but that's getting fiddly.
Pending not being visible does not really prevent people from finding out what's in the report, drafts don't even do that, those stages are just less convenient than submitted or later.
The system is also likely going to need a rework given factions are coming in as faction envoys seem unlikely to work out in the long run.
Anyway, the belief that the current system somehow stops people from finding out what's in a report is patently false, it just makes it inconvenient. As an example, I wanted to see what 1578 contained last night, it took like an hour maybe just because contacting someone but like as soon as I was able to I had the whole thing in pastebin.