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The Serenguard's Ward

RilunaRiluna
in Common Grounds
Because I definitely want to learn and discuss this more, and this needs its own thread so we stop hijacking Raves. The rest of this post is a quote from @Everiine, but forum quoting defeats me:

Let me be clear: we did not create Fiabelhie Stillriver. We asked for a small ritual we could do with "Unblooded" (GR1) people as a "rite of passage" ritual, that we could call on when needed, that only affected us. We even drew up a detailed script for what this ritual could look like, understanding that it may not end up being exactly what we designed (I could post it, if anyone's interested).

Fiabelhie Stillriver and her quest don't resemble any of that in the least. We asked for "at need", we got "mandatory all the time for everyone". We asked for "small", we got "way too long". We asked for something that affected "just us", we got something that creates aggro mobs that attack "everyone". The only thing she and her quest have in common with what we asked for and designed are that they are a quest and there is a "bad person" involved.

As for just releasing her: it doesn't work like that. We'd have to wait and let all of the strands on the Lock decay, which takes at least ten RL days if no one works on it in the meantime. So, she could be released if everyone stops working on it for ten days (and it has happened before), but it would take a while.

And we have tried to do something different with her. Oh, we have tried. No results yet.

Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
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Comments

  • RilunaRiluna
    Here's a couple of my questions.

    1) What exactly is/are the perceived problems? To me, it seems like it's been stated that she's simultaneously time-consuming and mandatory, yet it's also not a trivial thing to just stop and release her, because that also takes too long.

    2) What happens, precisely, if the quest isn't done and the locks are released?

    3) Is this something only the Serenguard can do, or can the rest of the org participate? If not able to assist with the quest itself, are there avenues for the rest of the Serenwilde to observe and participate in an RP fashion?

    It seems to me like there's a great deal of potential with this, even if nothing does change, and emotions do run high about it from time to time. In my experience, it's been a seldom-explored avenue of RP in the commune as a whole, though I have no idea what the SG do with her.

    I honestly haven't heard much (even IG) from the Serenguard except "Ugh I hate doing this". Even if there is no mechanical change, is there another RP approach the commune can take to ease the burden of their warriors?

    Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited March 2015
    1) It's a tedious quest, that involves hunting several types of mob within Serenwilde, a elements of random fail chance, and some tedious button mashing. Doing the quest all the way through creates 1 thread, which stops her from being released for one IG month, maxing out at ten. It's evidently kind of buggy, outside of just having random fail and using resources required for other things (afaik).

    2) Well, a tainted riverdancer who hates all of Serenwilde to her core and wants to utterly destroy it is released. So, that happens. She starts to flood the forest using her powers (forcing swims) and releases tainted/twisted fae. Rooms that are flooded gain a carcer effect, as they [the fae, but not IH ones] grab your ankles as you walk around. Furthermore, those tainted fae start to roam around attacking people, and they're decently strong (IIRC). 

    Who knows what could happen after that, giving tainted fae the run of the commune can't be a good thing. Neither can inundating all of the wildlife with tainted waters controlled by a malevolent spirit trying to twist and destroy the forest. Trees tend to need clean water!



    3) Several of the essential steps involve the Serenguard guild tutor, who is (of course) inside the SG guildhall. I don't even know if he responds to non-Serenguard who somehow get in to him, perhaps not.

    4) I've not explicitly messaged the patron about it, but like I mentioned: I do sit around her crystal all the time with RPWHO on, emoting touching it and talking to her. I don't remember if I submitted to the ideas board, it's really easy to forget if you have or not. I've also asked Dain about it, and I'm sure Everiine has poked their GH guardian about it, as well as messaging the patron.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    edited March 2015
    1) The basic mechanics are the quest are this:

    Fiabelhie Stillriver is imprisoned in a cracked crystal that is only held closed by the Magnolia Lock. The Lock is made up of up to 10 strands. Each RL day, 1 strand decays. If all 10 strands decay to nothing, Fiabelhie escapes.

    Keeping up the Lock requires completing a quest that adds a single strand to the Lock. This quest can be done multiple times a day, but I'm not sure what the cooldown is--longer than 1 hour, and shorter than 1 RL day.

    The quest involves:
    1) Killing enough salamanders and frogs to get 2 feathers from eagles. Whether the eagles give a feather when given the corpses is entirely random. It's possible that only one or no eagles will drop a feather.
    EDIT: Also, the eagles are either in the air or on the ground. Just recently, I went to do the quest and 2 eagles were on the ground, 8 in the air. If I weren't a trill and could fly, it would be difficult to complete the quest.
    2) A five-part chain of deliveries (deliver x to person, receive y, which must be delivered to the next person). One of the items delivered, honeycakes, is made by players and can easily run out if there aren't any players constantly making them (you can get a few honeycakes from an NPC in Faethorn, but not enough for the quest without waiting an extra hour or two).
    3) Delivering 20 pieces of essence to the location of the magnolia.
    4) Delivering 4 more items to an NPC in the Hifarae Hills, at least one of which as well as the NPC is used in 2 other quests (and yes, it is quite possible to bug out, where suddenly, the NPC thinks the items are for a different quest, stopping our quest in its tracks).
    5) Two more deliveries.

    All in all, if doing it alone, the quest takes easily an hour to complete--more, if something goes wrong, up to 2 or 3 hours.

    2) Going from memory, when she escapes, as Enyalida said, parts of the
    Serenwilde are flooded and spawn mobs that attack anyone that walks by the longer it goes, the more mobs spawn and the more dangerous it is.
    Eventually Fiabelhie herself must be fought, and she's a tough person to
    kill.

    3) Anyone can technically do the quest--BUT, a Serenguard has to at least be around, because two of the steps require giving items to the Serenguard tutor in the guildhall. He will accept the items from non-Serenguard, so they can do the quest, but a Serenguard needs to let the person into the guildhall so they can deliver them.

    You'd think that, if one strand decays per RL day, then the quest only needs to be done once per day. Yes. But when there are only a few players, and the quest has a number of points at which it can fail entirely and you have to wait at least an hour before trying again, often, this means someone is spending their entire window of login time on the quest. Burnout is quite common.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    I wonder if player made honeycakes work. /chin
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • TurnusTurnus The Big Bad Wolf
    There was a period where the last part took 10 minutes of hitting a flower in order to pick it. This is not an exaggeration it literally took ten minutes of your bashing attack to kill a flower.

    I believe the only change we've gotten has been lowering the amount of hits to kill the flower (it's been awhile since I've done the quest so I don't remember how long it takes for that stage anymore now).

    ~--------------**--------------~

    The original picture of Turnus is still viewable here, again by Feyrll.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    It was originally bugged out, and strands decayed really fast, but that was fixed quickly.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Shaddus said:

    I wonder if player made honeycakes work. /chin

    Player made honeycakes do work, and we prefer them so that we don't have to wait for the honeycombs to respawn.

    But, because it takes 5 honeycakes each time the quest is done, we go through inventory quickly, and it takes a while to build it up again.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    For comparison's sake, here's the last copy of the ritual we the players designed and suggested. We had to submit it twice--it got lost when our patron went inactive. I remember this was submitted sometime in 2011, either the first or second time.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • RilunaRiluna
    She's Tainted? That's kind of a bombshell to me, and raises some interesting RP questions. Is she tainted, or is all of Ackleberry? If she's been down there for generations, I assume it's pre-Acklepoof?

    I've always been under the impression that she was just cranky, as Moon and Lake don't like each other much.

    Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    I don't recall if she's Tainted or not--the event post says she is a "victim of the Taint", but doesn't say what that means. At the very least, she is insane, driven to madness by the long time it took for her mistwalker form to recoalesce.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Basically she got left behind when Ackleberru left, and the taint did to her what it would have done to Ackleberry.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy
    Player made honeycakes do work.

    I like the concept of the quest and even the ramifications for not doing it. I think with some tweaks it could be more tolerable:

    1) Strands should decay much slower.
    2) It should aim instead to use its own set of items, so as not to interfere with or be interfered with by other quests.
    3) It should have no random fail chance depending on item spawns/respawns. All items you need for the quest should be available on one full spawn always. Eg. The eagles should probably just not be random.
    4) It should require some low-level bashing of some evil force toward the end. For a Serenguard-centric quest, there's not a lot of valor and bloodshed. Maybe right before you put on the lock, Fiabelhie summons an evil fae for you to bash before you can put it on.
    5) Cutting the magnolia should not take 10 freaking literal minutes.
    6) Some better reward for finishing it would be great. Right now it contributes toward your counter for ikons. It should either always give an ikon when finishing it and/or one of the following:
    (a) Gold for completing the quest. Maybe Eurytus gives you a tell once the lock is placed to come and visit him and he'll give you your reward/
    (b) Karma
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    It shattered her connection to the Honeysap. I think the event post can be interpreted in a couple ways--either she was infected by the Taint itself, or because of the Taint, Ackleberry left, breaking her connection, preventing her from reforming until centuries later, and driving her insane.

    Of course, if she ever gets out again, we can study her before she kills us all :) .
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals
    Sounds to me like a few things could help significantly.

    1. Make sure you only need -one- honeycake to do the quest. Five seems silly and excessive.
    2. Make it not decay every month, but have some percent chance. Like 20% or so, so it isn't a constant pressure. After that, just make sure that people can still do the quest if the lock is maxed and you're good.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Yes, she's tainted. At least, that's the impression I got during the event, and from all of the interactions with her and her fae.

    Lakedancers are mistwalkers: They can transform themselves into wide banks of fog or mist, and lay upon the waters. During the fall of Ackleberry, Fiahbhbhbhb Lakebitch was in that form, and was scattered by the taint and the magic that phased the forest out of our reality. When she finally recollected herself, Ackleberry was destroyed and she went to attack Serenwilde, finally getting sealed in her crystal prison. During the Wheel event, her prison was broken by the power of the Goloth, bringing about the current state of affairs.


    Basically, she was mingled with the taint while discorporeal, and coalesced together around her anger and its power. Not a nice combo, at all.
  • MarcellaMarcella
    I'd always thought it would be amazing if it was the latter, the whole 'THIS IS SERENWILDE'S FAULT FOR NOT HELPING' lore incarnate in the Abandoned Wiccan wanting grievous revenge on the isolated commune, not her to be actually *tainted.*


    Somehow, her being tainted makes it a lot less interesting to me.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    edited March 2015
    1-3 honeycakes, less essence, have the eagles drop a feather EVERY time, and take out the items/NPCs that are used by other quests which are prone to bugging out are my best suggestions for tweaking. I love the suggestion of not having the decay be constant, but rather, a chance.

    I'm not really fond of the delivery chain, either, because it's so... tacked on. The Serenguard have nothing to do with the fae architect, Shilo the Gardener, or Abeytu, but we have to deliver this absurd chain of items to them "just because", it seems, or to fill out the time.

    Honestly, at this point, we just hate the entire thing. It's one thing to hate a quest and decide, "Yep, not going to try that one again". It's another thing to hate a quest, every part of it, because you are forced, mechanically, to do it over and over and over and over with no end in sight.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Marcella said:

    I'd always thought it would be amazing if it was the latter, the whole 'THIS IS SERENWILDE'S FAULT FOR NOT HELPING' lore incarnate in the Abandoned Wiccan wanting grievous revenge on the isolated commune, not her to be actually *tainted.*



    Somehow, her being tainted makes it a lot less interesting to me.
    That's exactly how it is. Being tainted doesn't make you automatically attack Serenwilde, heh. 
  • TurnusTurnus The Big Bad Wolf
    Also. My post in raves didn't get copied over. But we've made a whole range of suggestions of changes to make it less tedious over the years (literally years). Just nothing ever comes of it. We've had at least a few SG quit the guild because of the tediousness of the quest.

    And I absoluetely love the concept and RP behind her. My issue is entirely in the mechanics behind the quest when there are so many little changes that could make it so much better. It absoluetely contributes to burn out, and it sucks for the people maintaining it, especially when it ends up being the majority of their logged in time.

    ~--------------**--------------~

    The original picture of Turnus is still viewable here, again by Feyrll.
  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy
    edited March 2015
    Oh crap, I forgot about the stupid essence. Yeah, it would be nice if it required less too.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    How has no one automated most of this yet?

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • SsalissSsaliss
    Synkarin said:

    How has no one automated most of this yet?

    To be fair, I'm not sure the answer to this issue is "just automate it". That's basically just putting a bandaid on a broken leg.
    image
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Automated? I don't understand what you mean.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    I agree it's not going to solve the problems presented, especially with burnout of younger people, but there doesn't seem to be a response from the Patrons


    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    He means having your system automatically hunt the salamanders, track you to where eagles are, find them and drop the stuff, then path to each mob that needs a delivery and auto-hand them the things, and so on.
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    Enyalida said:

    Fiahbhbhbhb Lakebitch
    Almost spit my tea out, but not today Satan.

    This is lame, sorry. Judging by the ridiculous string of steps I would say it was (or should have been) intended as something short-term, leading up to a finale mini-event. The fact that it hasn't (or -won't-) just bothers me - me, never having done the quest or had any obligation whatsoever to DO the quest.
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Isn't that highly illegal? A system can kill things for you, and it can move you, but not both together, or something like that?
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    Everiine said:

    Isn't that highly illegal? A system can kill things for you, and it can move you, but not both together, or something like that?

    No.
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    There are workarounds. Generally, as long as you are at the keyboard, and it is only simplfying things you are already doing, it's fine. So, you might still need to hit the QUEST alias, but it automatically queues the next map position, and if you're there automatically hands appropriate things in your inventory to the appropriate mob, or things to that effect.
  • EritheylEritheyl ** Trigger Warning **
    It falls under the dual protips of 'Don't Be Stupid' and 'Don't Get Caught If You Are For Some Reason Being Stupid Anyways'.
    Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."

    -

    With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
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