Welcome to Los Alamos! Sylandra, sneaky Soviet spy, wins! America slightly wins.

Ieptix · February 2016

Do you have a way to turn the track pad off? My laptop will let me turn it off with fn+f2, I think.

Ushaara · February 2016

Argh, as much as I would love to let this go, you still continue to raise blips on my shady radar.

A long, wordy post but nowhere in it do you explain how you knew you were blocked. While @Tremula 's block attempt may have failed on @Sylandra because she was elsewhere, she still had no idea the block attempt happened, and neither did @Lavinya.

In every instance of mafia I've played, you -only- know you were blocked if you try to take a night action. It's as fundamental to the game as never knowing if you were investigated or not. It's how Tekora was caught in the last game after the first night into having to admit he tried to take a night action.

Doubting now that the Soviet spy is their own third-party is another blip for me. Earlier you were crusading against me on the fact that me trying to highlight the potential of a Soviet spy was evidence of me being mafia, (I was vindicated by Sylandra's information), but again as I said on the day the Chirbo/Celina decision was being made, that Celina was a mafia doctor only makes sense with a third party in play. And while less conclusive (but sufficient to prove it to myself), in addition to the above reasoning, Silvanus' flavour text regarding the Soviet mole only mentioned 'a contact', not multiple ones.

Highlighting that you argued for Celina's lynching is not definitive proof of your innocence either. Celina was on borrowed time whatever happened, and the best way for other mafia to disassociate themselves from her and present themselves as innocent would have been to turn on her, the more strongly you do so the more innocent you end up looking. Sacrifice one for the group win etc.

Your whole crusade against me is that historically Oppenheimer ended up being anti-nukes, yet you're fine with Fermi being anti-H-bombs? Allyrianne has claimed Compton, Compton set up the committee that submitted the Franck report. Is she guilty now too? If a mass name claim and a two minute google search is all it takes to root out the mafia, this would be a terribly constructed game. Your reasoning holds as much weight as saying, 'Hey, Oppenheimer is the "Now I am become Death" guy, therefore he is a lunatic assassin! (I'm not)

And lastly, there is a difference between not revealing information, and lying. I chose not to reveal my powers, since having everything out in the open makes things easier for the mafia to kill priority targets. But I have never lied and have been 100% consistent all through the game. Since it has come down to this to prove my innocence, I am neutering myself but will reveal that I am an Investigator/Commuter. I can choose to investigate people, or take my seat on the Interim Committee as lead Administrator removing me from the game at night. It's also why I was sceptical of Chirbo, (along with the lynchproof thing) because I thought he was claiming investigator so that the real investigator would counter claim.

I don't get role powers, as Chirbo seemed to, just identities which now makes more sense knowing that the spy can change identities, and for a full breakdown of my night actions

Night 1: Investigated Synkarin, because after the last game, I sure as hell was going to. Bunch of interns gave me his identity.

Night 2: Investigated Luce, as his 'tugboat and Essex' post on Day 1 was so incongruous I thought it had to be dropping a hint to his identity, like I was doing dropping a few hints that I was Oppenheimer. Google search suggested Mt Stimson was near Essex Montana, and I wanted to confirm that he was Stimson. Completely thrown when he was Stafford Warren, (seriously @Luce, what was with that comment?) but we had a nice chat about combating radiation sickness. Also turned out to be the night Luce was killed, but nothing revealed about that in my flavour text.

Night 3: Figured I was riding my luck, with doctor gone. Sat on Interim Committee. You were right about one thing, fractious relationship with the President. Flavour text on return was about me cursing Truman.

Night 4: Took a big risk as I was convinced Tarkenton was going to kill me, but investigated Tremula as her sniping of Allyrianne seemed very opportunistic. Confirmed Stimson.

Which brings us up to now, and paints a huge target on my back to the spy but hopefully is enough to convince whoever doubted me.

With Sylandra's assurance, I don't think you are the spy, and while 100% could be wrong about Chirbo, but you are being so shady, the only thing I am certain of is that you are lying.

Vote Ieptix

Ushaara · February 2016

Oh man, now I feel guilty because you're trying to help with the trackpad thing!

Sylandra · February 2016

Well. Ushaara being investigator was the last thing I expected to find out today.

Ushaara · February 2016

It's why I didn't reveal anything before now!

Sylandra · February 2016

It is curious though that you listed people who have already nameclaimed in some fashion or another, and that you didn't choose to investigate Ieptix despite being so suspicious of him. Can I ask what your reasoning was?

Ushaara · February 2016

I figured he was Ulam on what he revealed, and while you never specifically confirmed it, that you said his role made sense for mason with Teller made me trust that he was likely Ulam. Is he not Ulam? It's similar to me not investigating Tark because after the Pentagon thing, I figured he had to be Groves/Stimson, and if Luce was Stimson it would confirm Tark as Groves in my head. Plus I still hadn't really settled on what to make of Tremula and the lynch on Ally came across as really opportunistic.

Sylandra · February 2016

I hope @Ieptix doesn't mind me confirming this, but at this point, it seems very obvious.

Yes. Ieptix is Stanislaw Ulam. Considering Teller was town, it made sense to me that Ulam would be town too. Hence my trust in Ieptix thus far.

Sylandra · February 2016

In every instance of mafia I've played, you -only- know you were blocked if you try to take a night action. It's as fundamental to the game as never knowing if you were investigated or not. It's how Tekora was caught in the last game after the first night into having to admit he tried to take a night action.

Actually last game I let everyone know when someone was blocking them! It's very much a mod decision. You'll notice that Celina was blocked a few times despite doing nothing, and I let her know because of the flavor I used. So your mileage may vary!

Ieptix · February 2016

I'll give a response to your post in a few hours, I'm not going to try to respond to all that on my phone. I'll just say this: right now, the only person I'm 100% convinced is scum is Lavinya, since she is the only person who has, iirc, not claimed any sort of night powers at all and in fact claimed to specifically not have any night power. Othero and I had mason powers, and I believe everyone else has claimed a protector, investigative, kill, or commuter role. I have reason to believe that if Othero had not been eliminated we may have gained some sort of night power, but he didn't and we didn't, and that is also speculation based on flavor I received when Othero was fired. So Lavinya now being the only person with no night powers at all is incredibly suspect.

Lavinya · February 2016

You know, I'm not sure why it's so inconceivable to think I have no active night power, when the only word we have on Ieptix' power is his own. Not even Othero's dismissal mentioned that he had a mason power. A little convenient to claim a mason power with the one person who could never confirm it, don't you think? Ieptix may not be the spy we are looking for (still about 90% sure it's Allyrianne), but I'm suspecting he may be the scum.

I still think, given the opening day post, that removing the spy should be a priority. It's obviously urgent, and so I still think we should be voting for Allyrianne. However I am also willing to lynch the scummy cuttlefish farmer and have Tarkenton hit Allyrianne tonight (assuming he didn't already try it and she is the very reason he's out sick). Maybe all the more reason to lynch her first? But I'm down with Ieptix too. Will use my double vote for either of those, so convinced am I that they are mafia and or spy.

Sylandra · February 2016

I just don't think these arguments to vote Ieptix are particularly compelling. Maybe I'm too trusting? But my role has been so oddly specific, I think it'd be bizarre for my findings on Ieptix and Synkarin to be incorrect. I got the impression that had I guessed right, the spy would have been caught. We already know now from Synkarin's elimination that he was, indeed, not the spy, and I'm inclined to believe my findings about Ieptix were true as well.

So, I'm still more leaning towards vote Lavinya. I'm also quite suspicious of Tarkenton for vanishing the moment we asked him to off someone for us, but obviously that's not on the table.

If you think my vote should change, I'm all ears. But right now it seems to me that Lavinya is the most suspicious person in the room.

Lavinya · February 2016

I'm not the spy, so if your mission is supposed to be to remove them, I strongly suggest we Vote Allyrianne.

Sylandra · February 2016

But if you were the spy, you also wouldn't tell me! :-??

Lavinya · February 2016

I'd still love to hear more about these other day powers of Allyrianne's she's supposedly earned while on her trips. Honestly, why is she earning them if not as the spy? Bringing information and avoiding detection, well done! You get a lynch immunity!

Lavinya · February 2016

I mean, there's an outside chance it's Chirbo, Tremula or Ushaara but Allyrianne's trips and her own description just fit too well.

Remember I'm only an advisor. Wouldn't a spy be better placed in the inner workings of the project?

Allyrianne · February 2016

The spy isn't the advisor, the advisor is your alias. I've already explained my trips are to deal with other sites because I'm Arthur Campton. I imagine the spy's been attacking people/going through papers, so no, the spy does not line up at all with the traveling I've been doing. The spy is also Fuchs, now assumed a new identity. Based on who is left, you pretty much have to be either the spy or scum, so

Vote: Lavinya

To clarify on the blocking thing, I saw a guard who checked me for credentials night 3, and who I did not consider to be malicious. I simply assumed that that was the Secretary of War, so it wasn't explicit to me what had happened, but I did have some confirmation that the block was at least attempted.

Lavinya · February 2016

You know...Sylandra could also be stringing us all along. Maybe SHE is the spy, and we're all just taking her word for it that she's out to catch them...when in actual fact this whole time she's had us looking at anyone EXCEPT her. Hmm. Hmm hmm hmm.

Allyrianne · February 2016

Except Sylandra's role was pretty much confirmed by Chirbo, and I am highly skeptical that she would simply make all of that up in a game where she is not terribly familiar with the flavour.

So no, that doesn't make sense, and just makes it look like you're attempting to cast aspersions on anyone you think it will stick to.

Lavinya · February 2016

I'm still waiting to hear about all the day powers you earned?

And I don't know. Who else takes trips at night? It makes sense that whoever the spy is, is someone who is going to not be in their office every night.

At this point I am all but convinced Allyrianne is the spy, and Ieptix is scum. Who can actually verify that he is a mason?? Who can verify that he has no night power? He talks about it being odd that I have no night power, but isn't it surprising that he can't do anything but talk with someone, supposedly, though he can't actually do it? Leaving someone completely vanilla townie doesn't sound like something Silvanus would do, from what we've seen of roles thus far.

I actually earned a passive power last night, and I find it hiiiiiighly unlikely that Ieptix hasn't either got more secrets he's not telling us, or earned a power of his own.

I am not trying to just stick to whoever, as usual I am second guessing myself a lot. But some are making me doubt more than others, and I'm worried that it's a case of last game, being so caught up on one person that the others are slipping under the radar. Let me use my double vote weight, then block AND vig kill me tonight if you really want to, but don't waste the lynch on me. We don't have enough numbers to get it wrong and voting me out will not help the town at all.

Ieptix · February 2016

I'm going to respond to Ushaara's post by quoting him using italics, because I am not masochistic enough tonight to try dealing with forums quotes.

A long, wordy post but nowhere in it do you explain how you knew you were blocked. While Tremula 's block attempt may have failed on Sylandra because she was elsewhere, she still had no idea the block attempt happened, and neither did Lavinya.

We don't know for sure whether Lavinya saw something or not, and if she's scum then it's in her best interest to say she didn't say anything. There isn't really anything to gain there. Similarly, if I had attempted some night power, why would I go back and claim I was blocked after having previously claimed to not have a night power? I wouldn't. Instead, I saw what I assumed was a roleblock attempt (soldiers show up and give me a bunch of busy-work), but wasn't sure (because I don't have a power to block!) so I brought it up and had it confirmed by Tremula that it was indeed a block attempt. As for Sylandra and Allyrianne, neither of them were on-site when the block attempts went through iirc, so they wouldn't have seen anything. As I think Sylandra said, it's the difference between a failed block, and an ineffectual but successful block.

In every instance of mafia I've played, you -only- know you were blocked if you try to take a night action. It's as fundamental to the game as never knowing if you were investigated or not. It's how Tekora was caught in the last game after the first night into having to admit he tried to take a night action.

This is my first online mafia game, so idk, but Sylandra mentioned that she did it in her game so there's precedent.

Doubting now that the Soviet spy is their own third-party is another blip for me. Earlier you were crusading against me on the fact that me trying to highlight the potential of a Soviet spy was evidence of me being mafia, (I was vindicated by Sylandra's information), but again as I said on the day the Chirbo/Celina decision was being made, that Celina was a mafia doctor only makes sense with a third party in play. And while less conclusive (but sufficient to prove it to myself), in addition to the above reasoning, Silvanus' flavour text regarding the Soviet mole only mentioned 'a contact', not multiple ones.

I made one post that I can find about the possible lack of a spy, mentioning the possibility the possibility that all mafia might have been radicalized scientists from the get go, and used it as support for calling you out as scum. I dropped that line of argument when Sylandra's info was revealed.

Further, I don't now doubt the soviet spy as their own third-party. My first post on day 4 was that I suspected, if there was a soviet spy role (this was before Sylandra's reveal), that I'd have expected them either as a spy or as a cult-type role, and then proceeded to discard that last possibility as quite unlikely. Further, very soon after the spy info came up, I again was the one to point out (on the same day) that the spy may well be part of the mafia.

So, yes, before we had proof of a spy, I assumed the mafia would be defined by radical anti-weapon sentiments. With the reveal of the spy, this changed to soviet spy + radicalized scientists (probably chosen/easily made radicalized because of their anti-wepaon sentiments/disappointment with the US gov't/etc). I was working with incomplete information, gained new information, came to new conclusion based on less incomplete information.

As for the single context flavour text thing, it's perfectly reasonable that if the mafia is spy + radicals, that the Soviet government would only have one contact: the spy. It's not like the Kremlin would just phone up Szilard and be all "psst, tell us 'bout whatchu up to there". They'd go through their own agent. There's no implication of the spy being a third party, especially when one confirmed mafia member has been specifically described as radicalized (which implies that the person in question was acted upon by outside forces, such as the spy, to bring them onto their side - in context of the game, this would have happened before day 1, not a cult sort of thing).

Highlighting that you argued for Celina's lynching is not definitive proof of your innocence either. Celina was on borrowed time whatever happened, and the best way for other mafia to disassociate themselves from her and present themselves as innocent would have been to turn on her, the more strongly you do so the more innocent you end up looking. Sacrifice one for the group win etc.

Well, no, it's not definitive. Very little is. However, given what happened, if Celina were my teammate then what I did was an incredibly stupid move. There was no suspicion on Celina when I called her out, and Chirbo had been acting shifty enough that even if he'd flipped town Celina would have had very reasonable plausible deniability. I think your claim about sacrificing for the group makes a lot more sense when applied to Lavinya, since she was the clinching vote and had being going after Chirbo pretty hard beforehand.

Your whole crusade against me is that historically Oppenheimer ended up being anti-nukes, yet you're fine with Fermi being anti-H-bombs? Allyrianne has claimed Compton, Compton set up the committee that submitted the Franck report. Is she guilty now too? If a mass name claim and a two minute google search is all it takes to root out the mafia, this would be a terribly constructed game. Your reasoning holds as much weight as saying, 'Hey, Oppenheimer is the "Now I am become Death" guy, therefore he is a lunatic assassin! (I'm not)

Admittedly, I don't know a huge amount about the specific history that went on with the Manhattan Project and what followed; I know major names and have a vague idea, but beyond that I'm pretty clueless. When I looked into Szilard and saw there had been attempted charges, etc., it made sense that he could have been made scummy. Oppenheimer similarly drew a lot of heat, though I don't think he got in trouble with the law over it (aside from pissing off Truman). But, at the time, that was the best I had to work with, so I ran with it. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm not, but I think it still fits.

And lastly, there is a difference between not revealing information, and lying. I chose not to reveal my powers, since having everything out in the open makes things easier for the mafia to kill priority targets. But I have never lied and have been 100% consistent all through the game. Since it has come down to this to prove my innocence, I am neutering myself but will reveal that I am an Investigator/Commuter. I can choose to investigate people, or take my seat on the Interim Committee as lead Administrator removing me from the game at night. It's also why I was sceptical of Chirbo, (along with the lynchproof thing) because I thought he was claiming investigator so that the real investigator would counter claim.

I don't think I accused you of lying in regards to your powers? I asked you to mention what your powers were since you were the only person to not mention night powers at all, but I don't recall saying you'd lied about them.

---

Continuing to subsequent posts, double-confirming that I am Ulam since that's out there now.

I could have lied about my mason power with Teller, but I didn't. Since y'all seem so hung up on my power claim, let's talk a bit (some historic details might be a bit off since, as I mentioned above, my knowledge is pretty casual, but it's close enough for the game's purposes).

Early in WWII, Fermi mentioned the idea of a fusion weapon to Teller. Teller ran with this, and worked to come up with a way to make it work, while also doing some work on fission weapon design as part of the Manhattan Project (fission weapons were what was dropped on Japan to end the war), though it turns out he focused so much on his Superbomb idea that Klaus Fuchs(!!!) ended up doing a lot of Teller's fisson-related work. Teller continued his work on his Superbomb after the war, but discovered it was unworkable. Later, well after the war (in the '50's), Ulam had an idea that could make a fusion weapon work, went to Teller, and the eventually developed the Teller-Ulam weapon design, which is what is used in current nuclear weapons.

In-game, this didn't happen. Othero/Teller was eliminated night 1, which was before the end of the war, and so Teller's ability to do a lot of his research is hampered, and the connection between Teller and Ulam never happens. This would have been the mason power between the two of us, and I have reason to believe we'd have gained some sort of power from it eventually, but because Othero was eliminated night one, nothing was ever able to come of that, leaving me a vanilla townie. Because the idea of a fusion weapon originally came from Fermi, he's the one set up as the head on fusion research (to answer Ushaara's question that's come up a few times), though I don't know if this is just flavour or if there is actual mechanics behind it. Ulam never got a chance to be involved here.

I am neither the spy nor scum. Tarkenton just screwed me with his kill on the first night.

---

I briefly considered Sylandra playing us like a fiddle, but Allyrianne's last post basically sums up my thoughts on that.

---

I really don't like this Tarkenton thing today. Either he was forced off by someone's night power as a sort of temp-firing (which would likely be a scum power), he attacked someone who had a defensive ability that knocked him out (if he is the town vig and he was playing with the group, it would have been either Lavinya or Ally), or he's a scum who managed to pull himself out for a day. None of these are all that wonderful, but we don't have a way to work out what happened.

My crazy theory is that he went after the spy, who was expecting to eventually be discovered and had a contingency that allowed them to inflict radiation poisoning on Tarkenton, knocking him out for at least the day, possibly longer. We don't know if Tark will come abck for the night, or even the next day. This is a very ugly situation regardless. This theory is a bit outlandish, and I'm not sure I believe at least the details, but a defensive counter or something seems plausible, and would fit if we had the spy, and if only Synkarin weren't "promoted" and had been able to tell us who was doing what last night aaaaa.

---

Going to go ahead and Vote: Lavinya.

Sylandra · February 2016

In all seriousness, though, I think I've been pretty straightforward about my role and my night actions. If you have any questions for me I'm happy to answer them!

Or you can just believe I'm an evil genius. It's oddly flattering.

Ieptix · February 2016

<tinfoil>Sylandra is secretly Silvanus. They even both start with the same letter.</tinfoil>

Sylandra · February 2016

Speaking of straightforwardness, what passive power did you earn last night, Lavinya? And why does that make you so convinced that Ieptix earned one?

Cyndarin · February 2016

Lerad and Ieptix are having a secret contest trying to find out who can write the longest posts.

Lavinya · February 2016

I didn't reveal it because I thought it would make me look bad, but I'm going down no matter what I do at this point, by the looks.

I got a message that Tarkenton came to my office, however he slipped and cracked his head on my desk, knocking himself out. My associates and I put him on a bed in the back room until he comes to, and that he was effectively jailed.

Now, I don't know if I earned it earlier or not, because I've never seen it, nor was I told about it. I don't know if it's one-off (I'm presuming so) or if it's because of someone else entirely making him trip? The way it was worded made it seem it was because he slipped in my office and we laid him on a bed there, that I am the reason he is jailed. If only it had tripped on mafia and not the vig, it would have been ideal.

Sylandra · February 2016

Well. That answers some questions.

Tremula · February 2016

I would like to note something about Ieptix, since I haven't been able to post all day because Valentine's Day depresses the everlasting FUCK out of me, when I blocked him last night he was in the process of leaving. For someone without a night power, there's no reason to be leaving their office, is there?

FOS: Ieptix

Sylandra · February 2016

Wot.

This is getting so confusing.

Unvote Lavinya

Explain yerself, Mr. Ulam.

Lavinya · February 2016

Ohohoho. SEE. SEEEEEEEE.

I don't trust Allyrianne, but you all know that by now. But Ieptix is not sitting right with me. Nope nope.

Willing to prove my power and feed him to his own cuttlefish.

Welcome to Los Alamos! Sylandra, sneaky Soviet spy, wins! America slightly wins.

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