Honestly I don't think this is enough to go after Cyndarin and I believe that they didn't talk to Allyrianne. Like I said, my text is vague and I got the impression that Ally was coming from Cyndarin but Cen's account is making me doubt this.
I'm a lot more interested in @Melali. Vivet, not sure if you can say or not but I think the most important stuff on page 120 is who we have not investigated or watched. It's a narrow field and those are the people we should really be examining for any inconsistency.
That is a reasonable explanation for the Sandshrew thing, which is why I'm not counting that night as terribly important. But it's not the only one. It is valid if: All pokemon attacks cause damage, including those that don't mention it in their description, and failed pokemon actions don't give messages, OR an otherwise unknown effect or mechanic caused his Sandshrew to be knocked out with less than three points of damage and failed pokemon actions don't give messages. I'd love it if @Tremula would descend from the heavens to explain how this actually works, but I doubt that'll happen.
Those could all be true. Some might be false. We don't have perfect knowledge of the mechanics, or at least I don't. That makes it very hard to assess this sort of claim. It'd be trivial if we actually knew all of the mechanics. As it is, I have no way of distinguishing between the action not resolving due to game mechanics and you lying. They give me the same set of information, so I have to at least look at the possibility of both of them.
I'm not convinced that you're scum, but there's enough odd coincidences around you that I'm willing to say that I think there's a greater than pure random chance of you being scum. There's 11 people left right now. We all know our own alignment, so a random kill has a 1 in ten chance of getting the cult recruiter. I think you're a little more likely than random, but not hugely so. Maybe 15%. I was willing to go for a kill on that when I thought that your win condition would remove you from the game in a couple turns (Since removing you through victory would reduce the population as though you had been killed anyway) but I'm a lot less willing now that it seems like you'd stick around. I'm definitely not going to pursue you now that Othero is saying that you probably didn't talk with Allyrianne. At the same time, I can't just assume that your claim there is confirmed without a full explanation of the game mechanics. If I knew the above assumptions were valid, it'd more or less confirm you. But we probably don't get to know how this stuff actually works.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
I suspect actions go through as received, with some exceptions like the jailor and the doctor. This role has been entertaining at least. I don't think I've ever been this honest and blatant in a Mafia game, and I still can't shake suspicion!
The worst part is that it's not even your fault. Everything you've done that has aroused suspicion makes perfect sense for both a town/3rd party as you claimed to be or for the Chosen (or at least my understanding of how the Chosen works, which might be wrong.) It all comes down to mechanics that haven't really been explained. One set of possible mechanics makes you look perfectly honest, and the other supports you being scum. Which is it? No idea! Normally I'd also assume the set of mechanics that makes you honest, but there's so much weird stuff going on that I'm no longer prepared to do so.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
If a Trainer dies, their Pokemon would no longer be subject to damaging or afflicting moves that could possibly kill them before they go to the Champion. My apologies, I thought I'd addressed this the day after this happened.
That actually makes things more confusing. I saw Sandshrew get knocked unconscious by a pokemon attack that night. But Pumpkaboo was claimed as a weird thing that blocks except when it forces action, so it shouldn't be canceled by death.
So: Either Luce lied about Pumpkaboo's powers after he traded for it, or I should stop taking night messages as reliable sources of information, or a mistake was made somewhere. I think I'm going to just write that night off as incomprehensible and pretend it never happened.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
There's still the issue of every attempted night attack on Cyndarin this game not going through. Is this three, now? And two of which seem to have involved the attacker getting amnesia somehow? I still think that's pretty weird, and I'm not really seeing any explanation for it in the powers we know we're working with at this point.
Pumpkaboo could attack a pokemon or a trainer. I targeted Sandshrew, not Rolsand.
Thul already claimed amnesia, didn't he? There's not going to be two amnesia powers. I survived two the first night. I don't know what third you are referring to.
@Vivet, assuming your claim of not being able to speak is not true, and not just throwing in some more confusion for your own tastes:
Is your voting restricted?
Can you vote to indicate people who you think should be investigated?
If you can't vote for certain people, can you vote/unvote to illustrate all the people who you think are fine?
----
If Vivet's restrictions can't be fully expressed in one or two paragraphs, I think it's reasonable for the rest of us to assume they're made up and move on. At this point I think her strategy is to lock us all into complete confusion and get a no lynch by default, which... >_> If that's the case, we're kinda already there, additional confusion unnecessary.
So, in the interest of possibly finding something empirical to work with... this is going to be the last day of Pokemon trades. Who's got a relatively worthless Pokemon they want to trade in hopes of getting something with a day power?
Also, did we get a modpost confirming @Ileein's trade and that he had a Corsola in the first place? Spikes is one of the things (the other being Othero's hypothetical visit last night) that should have shown up on Gardevoir's ability but didn't, and I'm going to be really embarrassed if he made the entire thing up.
Pumpkaboo is a pseudo blocker. If they were performing a night action, they would do nothing. If they did nothing, they would perform a night action at random.
To be clear, the description of the power says trainer only. Which looks like it confused Luce like it confused me. I tried to attack Sandshrew and Tremula clarified the attack would be confuse ray, and the power wasn't just for trainers.
Incidentally, that was why I was confused about whether or not you could just direct damage another pokemon without a power, because Pumpkaboo's power didn't specify.
Pumpkaboo could attack a pokemon or a trainer. I targeted Sandshrew, not Rolsand.
Thul already claimed amnesia, didn't he? There's not going to be two amnesia powers. I survived two the first night. I don't know what third you are referring to.
I'm assuming Allyrianne was meant to kill you the night she got confused and wandered off before actually accomplishing anything; there was no successful mafia kill that night, after all. Thul has always targeted himself with his Pokemon, so his amnesia shouldn't be hitting random other people if it works the way he has described. Something has saved you every time you've been attacked.
I attach willowisps to pokemon at night. When I said "Wtf Tremula, why did you make my pokemon so crap," Trem said it'll make sense once Quilava evolves to Typhlosion.
I shouldn't have to remind you that I traded for Cyndaquil. Cyndaquil is not my role, it's my pokemon.
I understand this, but that doesn't mean you have to use its power. My Lunatone is just a big rock because I realize that using its ability would help scum more than town.
By claiming to have no qualms about marking people for immolation, you elevate your threat level from "third party along for the ride" to "third party working against town."
...okay. That's kinda a mixed bag of targets there, if it's correct. Cen's been suspicious, and Lehki was Lehki. But that's an attempt on me, which I'm trying to not take personally... and then an active gun to the head of Portius.
I can confirm that as of two nights ago her ability was Pokedex. And the ability has been so weak that I genuinely hadn't considered her a cult conversion target, but. Uh.
Would anyone else feel a lot better if Cyndarin traded out for something?
I've had a thought. I don't know if it's a good one yet, but I'm bringing it up in case it is. Allyriane flipped as a traitor. I took that to mean she was cult converted, but traitor is actually a role that shows up sometimes for a mafia member that doesn't know the identity of the other groups. Getting mind controlled to do the group's kill is kind of consistent with not knowing the others, thematically speaking. And she did flip for Lunala specifically. So maybe she was that kind of traitor and not a convert?
If so, are we maybe looking for a Solgaleo traitor in addition to the cult recruiter? It looked like the two cults were otherwise symmetrical.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
...okay. That's kinda a mixed bag of targets there, if it's correct. Cen's been suspicious, and Lehki was Lehki. But that's an attempt on me, which I'm trying to not take personally... and then an active gun to the head of Portius.
I can confirm that as of two nights ago her ability was Pokedex. And the ability has been so weak that I genuinely hadn't considered her a cult conversion target, but. Uh.
Would anyone else feel a lot better if Cyndarin traded out for something?
Well, I just targeted you because I also pokedex'd you the same time and I was being lazy. I told you, my role sucks so I've barely been playing.
I'm not trading. I want my damn typhlosion. I traded for this bitch!
Also, did we get a modpost confirming @Ileein's trade and that he had a Corsola in the first place? Spikes is one of the things (the other being Othero's hypothetical visit last night) that should have shown up on Gardevoir's ability but didn't, and I'm going to be really embarrassed if he made the entire thing up.
We did not.
@Tremula, did you see my attempted trade earlier? If not, I'll repeat:
Trade Corsola for Solrock!
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
At work today, I was informed I'd need to fill in during the morning shift until Thursday, which is my next day off. So each day I'm basically going to be working 14 hours. I'm not sure how I'm going to make this work just yet... I'm really, really sorry, but I'm going to do my best to try to post a little tomorrow night as well as right now.
The timing on this is immensely frustrating, but life happens.
The problem is more that one is especially nebulous, hence it reflecting in overcaution.
However, there is something I better do now while I still have time.
I told you all I was convinced of a three-person group minimum. Two of those that compose this foundation are Melali and Cyndarin. You are investigating some of the issues with Cyndarin, but what bothers me most and continues to bother me is the lack of clarity in how we can help him achieve his goal. We can't wrest the types he still needs from him - he did offer that he needed the dragon type, but as I pointed out Deino being a dragon type he exclaimed, "Oh! I forgot!" as though to suggest he hasn't really been paying that much attention to it, or really cares to.
I don't doubt Cyndarin once had this as a goal. It's just been forgotten and cast aside now.
Melali would be more difficult to explain, but it would be important to consider when he stopped being the relatively cheery, leader-like figure he started as, and began to get "cagey", as some people have stated. He has gotten more reclusive with time unless called out, and we haven't heard anything of Deino in ages.
I have to wonder if Deino has evolved. It takes a long time for Deino to evolve, generally, but Zwelious, and then Hydregion should be significantly more powerful. If he acquired a new skill through them that would be helpful to town, surely it would be reported, no?
Melali, please tell us if Deino has evolved at all or not.
No clue, @Thul! My best guess is it's because I was jailed.
The wisp thing is massively concerning. It really does sound like a pokemon-arson. Which means Portius' Haunter might get burned up when Quilava evolves.
But the main thing here is that Vivet is now confusing the heck out of me even more. We've gone from 'my lips are sealed and it's beyond my control' to 'guys it's these two'. What happened that the conditions you mentioned are now suddenly lifted?
I want to know if this information is actually based on anything more than you believing you've got the game figured out. Do you have concrete evidence? Because Melali wasn't lying about jailing me last night, and the flavour message specifically pointed out his PPD badge to me. Unless you want to tell me he's some kind of crooked cop who was converted but managed to retain his badge and jailing powers, he's honestly the only person alive that I'm 100% convinced is town.
I think I'm out of questions. I didn't really get any sense of your restrictions, but I'm drawing a blank on what else to ask. Thul had some near the top of the page that you might want to field, though.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
Comments
I'm a lot more interested in @Melali. Vivet, not sure if you can say or not but I think the most important stuff on page 120 is who we have not investigated or watched. It's a narrow field and those are the people we should really be examining for any inconsistency.
Those could all be true. Some might be false. We don't have perfect knowledge of the mechanics, or at least I don't. That makes it very hard to assess this sort of claim. It'd be trivial if we actually knew all of the mechanics. As it is, I have no way of distinguishing between the action not resolving due to game mechanics and you lying. They give me the same set of information, so I have to at least look at the possibility of both of them.
I'm not convinced that you're scum, but there's enough odd coincidences around you that I'm willing to say that I think there's a greater than pure random chance of you being scum. There's 11 people left right now. We all know our own alignment, so a random kill has a 1 in ten chance of getting the cult recruiter. I think you're a little more likely than random, but not hugely so. Maybe 15%. I was willing to go for a kill on that when I thought that your win condition would remove you from the game in a couple turns (Since removing you through victory would reduce the population as though you had been killed anyway) but I'm a lot less willing now that it seems like you'd stick around. I'm definitely not going to pursue you now that Othero is saying that you probably didn't talk with Allyrianne. At the same time, I can't just assume that your claim there is confirmed without a full explanation of the game mechanics. If I knew the above assumptions were valid, it'd more or less confirm you. But we probably don't get to know how this stuff actually works.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
So: Either Luce lied about Pumpkaboo's powers after he traded for it, or I should stop taking night messages as reliable sources of information, or a mistake was made somewhere. I think I'm going to just write that night off as incomprehensible and pretend it never happened.
Thul already claimed amnesia, didn't he? There's not going to be two amnesia powers. I survived two the first night. I don't know what third you are referring to.
Is your voting restricted?
Can you vote to indicate people who you think should be investigated?
If you can't vote for certain people, can you vote/unvote to illustrate all the people who you think are fine?
----
If Vivet's restrictions can't be fully expressed in one or two paragraphs, I think it's reasonable for the rest of us to assume they're made up and move on. At this point I think her strategy is to lock us all into complete confusion and get a no lynch by default, which... >_> If that's the case, we're kinda already there, additional confusion unnecessary.
So, in the interest of possibly finding something empirical to work with... this is going to be the last day of Pokemon trades. Who's got a relatively worthless Pokemon they want to trade in hopes of getting something with a day power?
@CyndarinAscends, uh. What does that Pokemon power actually do?
Also, did we get a modpost confirming @Ileein's trade and that he had a Corsola in the first place? Spikes is one of the things (the other being Othero's hypothetical visit last night) that should have shown up on Gardevoir's ability but didn't, and I'm going to be really embarrassed if he made the entire thing up.
Pumpkaboo is a pseudo blocker. If they were performing a night action, they would do nothing. If they did nothing, they would perform a night action at random.
To be clear, the description of the power says trainer only. Which looks like it confused Luce like it confused me. I tried to attack Sandshrew and Tremula clarified the attack would be confuse ray, and the power wasn't just for trainers.
Incidentally, that was why I was confused about whether or not you could just direct damage another pokemon without a power, because Pumpkaboo's power didn't specify.
I attach willowisps to pokemon at night. When I said "Wtf Tremula, why did you make my pokemon so crap," Trem said it'll make sense once Quilava evolves to Typhlosion.
I shouldn't have to remind you that I traded for Cyndaquil. Cyndaquil is not my role, it's my pokemon.
By claiming to have no qualms about marking people for immolation, you elevate your threat level from "third party along for the ride" to "third party working against town."
Remind me who's wisped at present?
Lehki died, Portius has a wisp, Thul and Cen failed.
I can confirm that as of two nights ago her ability was Pokedex. And the ability has been so weak that I genuinely hadn't considered her a cult conversion target, but. Uh.
Would anyone else feel a lot better if Cyndarin traded out for something?
If so, are we maybe looking for a Solgaleo traitor in addition to the cult recruiter? It looked like the two cults were otherwise symmetrical.
I'm not trading. I want my damn typhlosion. I traded for this bitch!
@Tremula, did you see my attempted trade earlier? If not, I'll repeat:
Trade Corsola for Solrock!
At work today, I was informed I'd need to fill in during the morning shift until Thursday, which is my next day off. So each day I'm basically going to be working 14 hours. I'm not sure how I'm going to make this work just yet... I'm really, really sorry, but I'm going to do my best to try to post a little tomorrow night as well as right now.
The timing on this is immensely frustrating, but life happens.
@Thul
The problem is more that one is especially nebulous, hence it reflecting in overcaution.
However, there is something I better do now while I still have time.
I told you all I was convinced of a three-person group minimum. Two of those that compose this foundation are Melali and Cyndarin. You are investigating some of the issues with Cyndarin, but what bothers me most and continues to bother me is the lack of clarity in how we can help him achieve his goal. We can't wrest the types he still needs from him - he did offer that he needed the dragon type, but as I pointed out Deino being a dragon type he exclaimed, "Oh! I forgot!" as though to suggest he hasn't really been paying that much attention to it, or really cares to.
I don't doubt Cyndarin once had this as a goal. It's just been forgotten and cast aside now.
Melali would be more difficult to explain, but it would be important to consider when he stopped being the relatively cheery, leader-like figure he started as, and began to get "cagey", as some people have stated. He has gotten more reclusive with time unless called out, and we haven't heard anything of Deino in ages.
I have to wonder if Deino has evolved. It takes a long time for Deino to evolve, generally, but Zwelious, and then Hydregion should be significantly more powerful. If he acquired a new skill through them that would be helpful to town, surely it would be reported, no?
Melali, please tell us if Deino has evolved at all or not.
The wisp thing is massively concerning. It really does sound like a pokemon-arson. Which means Portius' Haunter might get burned up when Quilava evolves.
But the main thing here is that Vivet is now confusing the heck out of me even more. We've gone from 'my lips are sealed and it's beyond my control' to 'guys it's these two'. What happened that the conditions you mentioned are now suddenly lifted?
I want to know if this information is actually based on anything more than you believing you've got the game figured out. Do you have concrete evidence? Because Melali wasn't lying about jailing me last night, and the flavour message specifically pointed out his PPD badge to me. Unless you want to tell me he's some kind of crooked cop who was converted but managed to retain his badge and jailing powers, he's honestly the only person alive that I'm 100% convinced is town.
Unvote
Vote: Cyndarin
Unvote
Vote: Melali
So that should help with providing clarification.