the Expedition - a Pokémon Mafia game. (GAME OVER. SYLANDRA WINS. TOWN WINS.)

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  • Let's try this again...  UNVOTE
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Also, I'll say this final thing before I break for the night, and leave it to the rest of you to decide if it merits a follow-up since I'm obviously prone to convincing myself of things too easily.

    I -really- dislike that Silvanus brought Kecleon back into play with even the slightest potential for Shadow Sneak allowing theft of pokemon from the Champion's car being a thing. Silvanus claims that's wasn't one of the powers but this quote by Tremula earlier:

    Tremula said:
    Attention: Pokemon MUST use their ability or move on a Pokemon for it to be considered a battle (this was done in a balancing attempt, otherwise Kecleon would be the most broken Pokemon and had to have been removed). I can not offer any more information about the night processes at this time, but you will find out everything Soon(tm).
    makes me think that Kilee was telling the truth about Kecleon having two powers, Transform during the Day phase, and Shadow Sneak at night, since Kecleon's Transform obviously can't be used as a battling ability.

    Of course this then means @Sylandra may have some explaining to do too with her claim that her Pokemon is purely passive too, and I don't know what to make of that.

    But I was suspicious of Silvanus already and claiming he couldn't leave Kecleon for mafia to trade theirs with just doesn't sit right with me. I believed before that leaving Kecleon in the Champion's Car would be the safest thing for all of us, since only people who can already steal from the car would then be able to take it. Trading his Turtwig for Kecleon just brought that uncertainty back into the game.

    That's me for the night.
  • Ushaara said:
    Also, I'll say this final thing before I break for the night, and leave it to the rest of you to decide if it merits a follow-up since I'm obviously prone to convincing myself of things too easily.

    I -really- dislike that Silvanus brought Kecleon back into play with even the slightest potential for Shadow Sneak allowing theft of pokemon from the Champion's car being a thing. Silvanus claims that's wasn't one of the powers but this quote by Tremula earlier:

    Tremula said:
    Attention: Pokemon MUST use their ability or move on a Pokemon for it to be considered a battle (this was done in a balancing attempt, otherwise Kecleon would be the most broken Pokemon and had to have been removed). I can not offer any more information about the night processes at this time, but you will find out everything Soon(tm).
    makes me think that Kilee was telling the truth about Kecleon having two powers, Transform during the Day phase, and Shadow Sneak at night, since Kecleon's Transform obviously can't be used as a battling ability.

    Of course this then means @Sylandra may have some explaining to do too with her claim that her Pokemon is purely passive too, and I don't know what to make of that.

    But I was suspicious of Silvanus already and claiming he couldn't leave Kecleon for mafia to trade theirs with just doesn't sit right with me. I believed before that leaving Kecleon in the Champion's Car would be the safest thing for all of us, since only people who can already steal from the car would then be able to take it. Trading his Turtwig for Kecleon just brought that uncertainty back into the game.

    That's me for the night.
    I think you are jumping. It just means that Kecleon could have used its power to transform into the right type at the same time as attacking a pokemon. Meaning it would always win a battle.
  • @Weiwae I'm not sure I was passive about it, but (and this may be to my detriment) but this is my first game of Mafia ever, I'm not going to rush to lynching conclusions. I'd also (once off mobile) like to corroborate your claims (even though, to me, they're kinda frivolous) that I voted in the last half of both vote trains. I totally could have, but me being cautious about (and waiting to) throwing my votes around (hence the decision to move to Kilee once I felt comfy with Rolsand's ability to play nice) is sincere. If that comes off as scummy, then it's well above my head as to why. I'm utterly torn between who deserves a vote at this point...and it's, I'd argue, a product of a game this size (which is still turning out to be awesome, @Tremula!). But after only reading mafia games across this forum, I'm really inclined to vote for whomever deserves it at the time: if someone smells, act on it because info is never bad. (Was going to list "people who are rubbing me the wrong way", but notes (lol, they're really "notes") are on my laptop, and I have bourbon and a game of cribbage that needs me. Will promise to drunkenly post tonight a list...maybe!)
    OH cruel Fate, when wilt thou weary be?
    When satisfied with tormenting me?
    What have I e'er designed, but thou hast crost?
    All that I wished to gain by thee, I've lost:
    From my first infancy, thy spite thou'st shown
    and from my cradle, I've thy malice known...
  • Omg my phone forgot how to
    . I'm so sorry :o
    OH cruel Fate, when wilt thou weary be?
    When satisfied with tormenting me?
    What have I e'er designed, but thou hast crost?
    All that I wished to gain by thee, I've lost:
    From my first infancy, thy spite thou'st shown
    and from my cradle, I've thy malice known...
  • ...how to <br>* (don't type HTML into the Show Source editor, boys 'n girls.)
    OH cruel Fate, when wilt thou weary be?
    When satisfied with tormenting me?
    What have I e'er designed, but thou hast crost?
    All that I wished to gain by thee, I've lost:
    From my first infancy, thy spite thou'st shown
    and from my cradle, I've thy malice known...
  • So many parentheses.

    I'm struggling to keep track of where we're at. Ushaara has managed to lose a lot of heat, so it looks like he's not getting lynched today, and I'm personally fine with that.

    So we're looking at Lehki now, right? Because of the weirdness between his claims and Krackenor's info. It's possible that there's some weird interaction there, but something still feels off to me.

    @Lehki, you claim to know Kalaneya's pokémon. Does that make you *yet another* investigative role?

  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    I'm still happy to lynch Ushaara, to be honest. He's claimed a lot of things - some sketchier than others - and if anything, a lynch shows us how much of what he's claimed to know is BS or accurate. I could be persuaded to another lynch train however if the rest of you feel strongly about it.
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • Yeah, I still think we should lynch Ushaara. All that wild goose chase did was get people to share a lot if info that got us no closer to who the mafia is. That on top of the sudden reversal and over apologizing feels scummy. Also I think the best way to lynch when there is no clear scum is to use my vote to punish bad play and that was very bad play.
  • Honestly I'm surprised and disappointed that a lynch train hasn't picked up any real momentum yet. There's *so much* information on the table, and yet nobody's suspicions have seemed to stick to a point of being commonly accepted.

    Which, actually, now that I think about it, could be indicative of the proposed lynch target's allegiances. Hrm. Though it's of course far more likely that we're all just too timid and cautious with our votes.

    I'm fine with lynching Ushaara, and I'm fine with not lynching him too. But I'm not fine with not lynching anybody. I recognize that I shouldn't be complaining about indecision when I'm actually part of the perceived problem. When everyone else is being so damn careful, it's really contagious--makes it very difficult to stand up and be the one to make a move. So, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is and go with my gut, and I encourage everyone else to try to be more decisive as well, even if you don't agree with what others have proposed. Trust your own instincts and make a play.

    Vote: Ushaara. Because I feel that his theories have done more harm than good, that his behaviour under pressure was decidedly scummy, and because none of the other proposed alternatives appeal more to me. (No hard feelings though, I hope. You've been getting a lot of crap this game, Ush, I sorry.)
  • I know I'm often guilty of being overcautious with my votes! Particularly in a game like this where I don't feel like I always get the chance to digest everyone's wild theories, given how fast the thread moves. That said, I've been a little concerned about Ushaara's wild accusations today, so I'm down to apply a little pressure. Vote: Ushaara
    Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    For what will seem like selfish reasons, I am quite alright with the lynching of Ushaara. A game this size, I am sure he has useful townish powers to throw us off, here is something he said way back on Day 1 (Page 17):
    Ushaara said:
    So yeah, extremely power heavy game. My assumption would be that there are Pokemon/Trainer exclusive versions of each of the typical mafia roles, i.e. can investigate pokemon OR trainer. But perhaps it's just typing which comes into play, which might help explain the @Sylandra scenario. The watching failed to see third person outside door because they were Ghost type or something along those lines?
    Bolded being my point, was he alluding to his own power? After his supposed investigation on Melali, that succeeded even though mine failed, he still questioned Melali about his role and alignment? And even then, he saw "interrogation" and assumed investigating, even though Melali jailed himself. 

    I only point this out because in my investigation, there were no questions or allusions in powers or alignment. The situation was explained quite clearly on what I saw, and it doesn't match up. Ushaara may or may not have investigative abilities, but I am more than confident that he is not telling the truth about his investigation of Melali.

    Vote: Ushaara
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • Ileein said:
    I know I'm often guilty of being overcautious with my votes! Particularly in a game like this where I don't feel like I always get the chance to digest everyone's wild theories, given how fast the thread moves. That said, I've been a little concerned about Ushaara's wild accusations today, so I'm down to apply a little pressure. Vote: Ushaara
    I'm not sure voting for Ushaara is going to be able to apply any more pressure than was already applied. We either lynch him because of the wild goose chase, or focus elsewhere.  He seemed apologetic to me and unlikely to do it again, (Although he did just do it again with Silvanus, so maybe not really?) Anyway, my point is we either lynch as punishment for bad play or we decide somebody else is more suspicious/harmful.  I don't think "applying pressure" is going to be useful.
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    Oh I agree, I think Ushaara has said all he can for himself arm. But I also think seeing how Ushaara flips though will be very, very useful. He's said a lot of things and pieced together many convoluted mafia scenarios. Will be interesting to see how his actual role lines up with that information, and with his claims.
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    Melali said:
    As for Silvanus, well, if the person wasn't there, then Silvanus would be revealing that the person in question has an ability to protect themselves, or was the target of such an ability. Well, this depends on what Silvanus' ability was, but it reminds me of the case where Ushaara, as the Faceless Old Woman, found that Ssaliss was not at home because he was reclining in the sky.
    I also wanted to bring this up but couldn't find the post on my phone, back early on in day 2, when Ushaara started going down the Melali investigator train, the point was brought up why mine failed and Ushaara's didn't. I have mentioned before that I don't think Ushaara's worked, but I'll explain why.

    He is familiar with the power. Early on in day one, I mentioned I visited a person that was not there. After Makaela (now Weiwae) brought this back up, Melali posted the above post as a response. This is the entire reason why I was able to confirm day one after this post (in my head) that Melali was the jailer with an ability to protect himself. That is why I was able to confirm with Sylandra on day 2.. I did not want to out Melali on day one because I knew it would be a useful power.

    Now, put yourself in Ushaara's shoes. Perhaps he did investigate Melali - Melali is a strong player, that is why I went for him as well, and it failed because they were not there. You had just played a game in Night Vale where you are inherently familiar with that power, you don't need an investigation to spell it out for you, you know how it works. 

    Why would you go out and stir the pot on day 2 with this information? The only reason I can come up with is mafia or jester, and it worked. Lots of information came out, and we may hang him.

    Ushaara also mentioned that he investigated Weiwae and mentioned bomb. Is Ushaara a bomb? So many questions.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • SylandraSylandra Join Queue for Mafia Games The Last Mafia Game
    I volunteer as tribute for final lynch vote if needed re: bomb scares. (I read the post as saying Weiwae was possibly a bomb though, among three other options?)
    Daraius said:
    "Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
  • Krackenor said:
    Lehki said:
    Sylandra said:
    Are you really deflecting scum accusations by pointing a finger at someone who multiple people have confirmed as a jailer with pro-town alignment?
    Yeah, why would I do something stupid like that? I may be new to Mafia but I have been paying attention. <_<
    If you've been paying attention then you also know that the longer you deflect and redirect after being directly accused of being mafia, the more likely it is that people are going to think you were playing for time while you try to think of a convenient alternative identity.
    I was one of the people who just told Ushaara that, so yeah I realize, but I'm fine with a certain level of suspicion at this point.
    Cen said:

    Lehki, you claim to know Kalaneya's pokémon. Does that make you *yet another* investigative role?

    No, I'm not an investigator. I actually couldn't find something directly comparable on the epicmafia role list.

    Okay I know I'm about to invite @Ushaara to spout off more theories, but um, could you actually talk more about this bomb thing? 
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    Yes, but if he is actually mafia, you have to presume that he mentioned some of those roles because he knows that they exist mafia wise. I never think of jester or bomb until someone mentions them (Personally, I will never include either of those in a mafia game, take that to the bank).

    I am really shooting out of the hip here on what Ushaara may be thinking with his crock-pot theories, I really do not know and would not vote. However! I do know that I failed on Melali, Melali basically confirmed my hunch on why I failed (you did as well Sylandra), and I can't come up with any reason that Ushaara succeeded.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    The above post is a response to Sylandra.

    To Lehki: I only mentioned bomb because Ushaara mentioned bomb in his investigation of Weiwae. If Ushaara proves to be mafia come a lynch, you have to presume that someone is a bomb.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    At the risk of further painting myself into the paranoid conspiracy theorist corner, @Sylandra's commitment to offing me after I've proven myself as investigator (to @Melali and @Weiwae at least, I believe) has given me a hot-damn moment of clarity.

    I finger-pointed the wrong person as mafia godfather for surviving the Night 1 kill attempts.

    You may think I pulled my Forewarn theory out of my ass, but damn I think these jigsaw pieces are starting to fit together.

    Sylandra isn't a Psychic X-Shot Bulletproof trainer, but she does have a Psychic pokemon with Forewarn, and is herself killproof as the godfather.

    It's her psychic pokemon with Forewarn that let her know she was the target of an earthquake blocked attack. Main use of Forewarn is to reveal Pokemon's move as what happened to me, hidden aspect is letting her know she was the target of an attack.

    @Krackenor is there even the slightest possibility your roleblock doesn't block psychic attacks?

    While she couldn't have used it last night being jailed with Melali, I now believe she targeted me with Forewarn on Night 1 and got Victini's power, and shared the information with Cyndarin in their nightchat last night phase.

    Everyone else, look at your own pokemon's power. You will see that whether it's protective, aggressive, or status-afflicting, you will in some fashion be able to target another trainer or their pokemon with it. @Weiwae thought that my last post was reaching, but battling is an integral part of this game..

    Sylandra is the only person saying her pokemon can't specify a target, and thus can't be used to battle.

    Anomalous claims are indications that the person is mafia.

    I believe this will also explain @Dylara's and @Sylandra's mismatch, revealed by @Luce.

    Goddamn @Sylandra, you really are sneaky!! My antics yesterday were providing you with a perfect town-cover too. :))

    Vote Sylandra

    ———

    @Othero, I know you're voting for me right now but I don't care what Pokemon you have, if you want Victini, he's yours. He's currently on cool-down but it will give you some protection for future Nights, and if you decide to, a means to protect others.

    Doctor, whoever you are, stay on Othero tonight.

    I really don't think Silvanus' accusations against me merit a response.. but since I guess I'm on last legs I have to say something.

    I've proven myself as investigator. Interrogation matching with Pokemon Police proves this. I was saying interrogation before you even mentioned investigating Melali.

    Further, I investigated Melali Night 1 and as is clear from my misguided solo run in this Day-phase, absolutely believed him to be an investigator. If I was mafia, I would have shared the results of that investigation in nightchat, and Melali absolutely would have been a prime target to kill. No-one knew that he might be important to protect.


    I can't say any more than I have already in my defence, so again will be shutting up for the day, but believe me, I will invariably flip investigator. Don't solidify the lynch before @Othero says if he wants Victini or not please. I hate the idea of him going into Champion's car and Silvanus stealing him.

    Anyway, I'm placing my final bet down now, Sylandra, Cyndarin and Silvanus are mafia.

    (If people don't follow my logic and still think I'm lying, I'm still fine with being lynched as I will invariably be nightkilled tonight even if I survive this dayvote. Brother and my 8-month old godson are flying in this week with extended family and I'll be busy holidaying with them for two weeks so will be distracted. Town still won after losing the protector & investigator on Night 1 in the last game, I believe in you!)

  • Ushaara said:

    Sylandra is the only person saying her pokemon can't specify a target, and thus can't be used to battle.

    K well I don't really know what to do with the rest, but I'm comfortable revealing that my pokemon can't specify a target either.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Ok, random targeting may be a thing, but am I right in saying it's not a purely -reactive- power, as Sylandra claims hers is?
  • @Ushaara yeah I, kind of follow your reasoning but... yeah. 

    Before the lynch train rolls in on you, I don't suppose you're willing to say why you mentioned bomb for one of Weiwae's possible rolls?
  • No sorry, you'd be wrong. It doesn't target at all, specified or random. I do the move and it never leaves my compartment. It's 100% reactive.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Ok, well perhaps she is telling the truth. But anyway, that's my final bit of theory-crafting done, and looks like I'll be heading out. I'll flip investigator as claimed, and you know where my suspicions lay if you decide to follow up.

    @Lehki To give Weiwae some protection. If mafia want to risk offing him, they have to take the risk that he -is- a bomb.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    Nor can the Kecleon attack at all, it is a defensive pokemon to protect myself.

    I am glad you spoke up Cen because if I were the only one with a special pokemon like Kecleon outside of Sylandra, that would be very suspect if you followed Ushaara. I actually can't engage in battle at all with Kecleon, and apparently all of you should be thankful because as Weiwae said, I can change to battle type at any time. I took Kecleon because if they actually could steal pokemon, it fit itself right inside my win condition on having the largest pokedex.

    I will let you know, in case there are any pokemon watchers out there that want to confirm this, I will be ordering Kecleon to transform into flying or psychic type, to avoid whatever happened day 1 or detect enemies and confirm what Sylandra is dishing out, I haven't decided yet. I will not be attacking or stealing any pokemon, and come the next time to trade or upgrade, I will jump at the opportunity and ditch Kecleon.

    If any watcher, tracker or investigator wants to target me tomorrow night, I will most likely steal information from the pokedex of someone that made a trade. For reference, I missed on Melali with this move.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • Sylandra said:
    I'm still happy to lynch Ushaara, to be honest. He's claimed a lot of things - some sketchier than others - and if anything, a lynch shows us how much of what he's claimed to know is BS or accurate. I could be persuaded to another lynch train however if the rest of you feel strongly about it.
    @sylandra I agree that we have a lot to learn if Ushaara turns out to be Mafia. However, if everything in his role matches his claim I am not sure what we can learn. He could still be just interpreting the facts wrongly. What did you have in mind that would be aided by us discovering his actual role? I am convinced he was able to investigate me. But I'm not willing to reveal my role further.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    (Oh and @Cen, no worries! No hard feelings. Takes a lot more than a bit of mafia heat to get me upset. I gambled. Looks like it won't pay off, but this game was wild and fun!)

  • Silvanus said:
    Nor can the Kecleon attack at all, it is a defensive pokemon to protect myself.

    I am glad you spoke up Cen because if I were the only one with a special pokemon like Kecleon outside of Sylandra, that would be very suspect if you followed Ushaara. I actually can't engage in battle at all with Kecleon, and apparently all of you should be thankful because as Weiwae said, I can change to battle type at any time. I took Kecleon because if they actually could steal pokemon, it fit itself right inside my win condition on having the largest pokedex.

    I will let you know, in case there are any pokemon watchers out there that want to confirm this, I will be ordering Kecleon to transform into flying or psychic type, to avoid whatever happened day 1 or detect enemies and confirm what Sylandra is dishing out, I haven't decided yet. I will not be attacking or stealing any pokemon, and come the next time to trade or upgrade, I will jump at the opportunity and ditch Kecleon.

    If any watcher, tracker or investigator wants to target me tomorrow night, I will most likely steal information from the pokedex of someone that made a trade. For reference, I missed on Melali with this move.
    My first thought on why you failed on Melali is that he's probably not carrying a pokedex. Probably only the other pokemon researchers are? But I suppose if that was the case your flavor probably would have spelled it out so?
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor
    Silvanus said:
    Nor can the Kecleon attack at all, it is a defensive pokemon to protect myself.

    I am glad you spoke up Cen because if I were the only one with a special pokemon like Kecleon outside of Sylandra, that would be very suspect if you followed Ushaara. I actually can't engage in battle at all with Kecleon, and apparently all of you should be thankful because as Weiwae said, I can change to battle type at any time. I took Kecleon because if they actually could steal pokemon, it fit itself right inside my win condition on having the largest pokedex.

    I will let you know, in case there are any pokemon watchers out there that want to confirm this, I will be ordering Kecleon to transform into flying or psychic type, to avoid whatever happened day 1 or detect enemies and confirm what Sylandra is dishing out, I haven't decided yet. I will not be attacking or stealing any pokemon, and come the next time to trade or upgrade, I will jump at the opportunity and ditch Kecleon.

    If any watcher, tracker or investigator wants to target me tomorrow night, I will most likely steal information from the pokedex of someone that made a trade. For reference, I missed on Melali with this move.
    When Kilee revealed Kecleon's power as Shadow Sneak, she had no reason to lie about it. Her trainer power was the Serial Killer attack, Shadow Sneak perhaps may not have anything to do with theft of pokemon, though it did sound like it, and it -is- an ability that would have let her use Kecleon in battle moreso than Transform!

    You're lying saying the Kecleon only has Transform. You're lying about investigating Melali.
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