I actually think complexity in lusternia's combat system is a good thing and should be encourged as one of its main attractions. It allows for creativity and allows you to constantly learn new things about how to play your own class as well as how other people play theirs. It also allows for a wider skill gap.
Side question: I know Lusternia/IRE and Vadi came to an agreement over open-sourcing M&M, but was he also hired on to do the server-side curing?
I'm pretty sure he just stopped playing/supporting it, and rather than sell the rights or close shop and execute a single-finger salute, he worked with some folks to make it open source. IRE/LustyAdmins may have also provided him with an incentive or a compensation for him to do so, IIRC.
Side question: I know Lusternia/IRE and Vadi came to an agreement over open-sourcing M&M, but was he also hired on to do the server-side curing?
I'm pretty sure he just stopped playing/supporting it, and rather than sell the rights or close shop and execute a single-finger salute, he worked with some folks to make it open source. IRE/LustyAdmins may have also provided him with an incentive or a compensation for him to do so, IIRC.
That's what I thought, but wasn't sure. Figured they'd throw the book at him and tell him that the M&M of yore was violating the Terms of Service in some way (which most other systems at the time did as well).
Was very confused by his choice of open source licensing. But that's another matter entirely, and not one fit for this topic!
My overall thoughts on this thread come first with a caveat. I'm not trying to insult this game or belittle it in any way. I do not want anyone to think that.
However, I am commenting on what playing this feels like as a newbie - not someone who knows what revamps are coming, not someone who knows what's been announced for development, not someone who knows all the great stuff that will be here "soon"....I am commenting on this from the perspective of someone WITHOUT perspective, someone who just stumbled in and is checking stuff out.
Lusternia very much cleaves to an apologetic dev strat, because to someone BRAND NEW this game is confusing as fuck. Yall say look at this and wait for that - but new/returning players aren't doing that, and we shouldn't have to. We need to be engaged quickly, and demanding that a new player be patient for things to improve is just so pants on head stupid that I am cringing typing it.
End of the day, this isn't about mechanics or skills or credit prices...what will capture players is a fun game AND one that they won't feel cut out from. Currently, as a new player, we feel cut out. The skillsets are changing - whatever we learn is pointless. Great. I really want to learn this shit. Too bad, it's all in trial mode and likely to change. It doesn't matter if it WILL actually change that much - there are AB files making stuff sound as unstable as quicksand. It sounds incredibly sketch and fluid. The help files, ABs, CHELPs, GHELPs, etc are all confusing. They conflict or are outdated. I tried to check out my stats today, based on HELP SCORE. I seriously spent 30 minutes going back and forth between help files and bugging people before I realized....Oh. Lusternia has DELETED STATS. It is impossible to feel like you can conquer the world and be a badass when you cannot even figure out the basic mechanics of the game because everything written about it is outdated.
They've been doing a pretty good job keeping general HELP Files up to date.. and if something is not, there's a thread you can post on and they're pretty quick about fixing those things. CGHELP/CHELP/GHELP is on the orgs/guilds to update themselves.
What do you suggest should be done about the overhaul? It's not going to be done overnight so what other alternative is there? It's one thing to sit here and complain about the situation, but there's really very little that can be done. Yes, we're in a state of limbo where things are changing, and there's not much that can really be done. I'm not trying to shoot you down here, I'm just being blatantly honest. Sure it sucks, but until things are finalized, it's where we're at.
Mmm, going back through this thread I feel that it split into different things: Recruitment vs Retainment. They go hand in hand yes, but are..different. I don't know, I just kind of hoped that maybe some positive, constructive brainstorming could be had for the former. Like, if money were no option and you could go hog wild, what could you imagine doing to build the community/playerbase?
I like the idea of having a table or booth at a convention, or maybe even a producer's talk. Awesomecon here in DC is coming up this summer, and the early bird tables weren't that expensive at all, one of my merchant friends mentioned like 150? It's 300 now. But there are free tables for fan groups under Promotion. (Maybe we could make a case for 'improving creative writing and reading proficiency through gamification' )
I do think even the small things in merch count for something. Sometimes I fall in love with the quality of art/merch before I even know what the main product is. 'Omg, that's cute! Oh, it's for Super Fluffy Llama World? I see..'
Or maybe just getting something into goodie bags, official ones handed out, or unofficial ones that you give away from your booth or table.
Where it's kind of at: 'Online services, especially games, need to build up
communities with shared interests whose members feel
comfortable using the service. Once the product is
running and its core community has been identified, all
the online resources should be bent to building,
sustaining and protecting this community.
Without such a community the product will have to rely
on advertising bringing in 'passing trade' and one-off
purchases, which while they may sustain the service for a
while are inherently unstable. This instability will soon
result in customers deserting the product for the 'next
big thing', making consistent sustained usage very
difficult.' -Phlogiston Blue.
I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots. Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
The game itself is delightful. There's rich lore, dynamic systems, and multiple styles of play. Most of the people I've interacted with have been equally enjoyable, and often went out of their way to check in and/or help me through the basics. These are all major points for Lusternia.
What I did find vexing though were instances where I was prevented from being able to do anything, such as the case of 10 hours spent as a guild novice. While I understand the reasoning behind it and that there are ways to reduce this amount of time, it became a major turn off because it robbed me of a lot of momentum. There was literally a point where I couldn't use the lessons I had earned to progress my guild skills, and the requirements to remove that novice block were so large that it felt like it would take more than 10 hours to complete them; this transformed a very exciting game into a sit around and wait one.
While I'm sticking it out and working my way through (with help from wonderful friends) this sort of play delay and momentum kill is deadly for newbies.
How do we fix this and recruit more newbies like myself? I'm not exactly sure, but I hope the devs find this insight helpful. Thanks for making and maintaining such a fun game!
One thing that might help keep players is to fix the horrendously broken economy. While there may not be a 'perfect' system for it, there are certainly issues that could be addressed to lessen the hyperinflation (credits, in particular).
1) Higher gold drops on mobs the longer they're not killed - this introduces waaay too much new gold into the game. I went bashing aetherbubbles, the average gold drop was 1000. Even frequently-hunted mobs on Prime (Upper Peak rocs and manticores) drop healthy 300-500 gold each, and there are 30 of them per area and they reset per hour. There are reports of Keph Queens dropping 20k each.
This is probably the least problematic, though, since almost everyone can bash things easily (talking about the normal mobs, of course, not the smob queens etc.).
2) Treasure Maps. There are people running around with thirty maps (there's even one with seventy), and they all have a chance to give a coin, which has a chance to get something good from the Wheel. The 'chance' might make it look okay and non-threatening...until you consider there are people who make 2 million gold weekly on treasure maps alone. This is an amount that even trickle-down economics can't justify.
These things pump too much gold into the economy. They might even be churning out artifacts with no real revenue sent to the game, because of the nature of the Wheel.
3) Lack of any real gold drains and gold sinks. Aetherships don't do it anymore, since there's a lot and you can just borrow. Equipment use doesn't cut it, either -- I can bash for a day and I can upkeep my cures, enchantments, robes, etc. for a month or more.
There's a thread floating around somewhere that's already poked at this extremely broken economy before, I'm going to see if I can find and revive it. It's a very valid issue that may have an impact on how people see the game (and decide whether to stay or not).
I'm not sure more gold sinks is the correct response to people having twenty or more treasure maps. Multiple damage buff and resistance curios don't stack, why do treasure maps and poteens? And this is gonna get more and more out of control as time goes on and more treasure maps are completed. And then I have to explain to new players what poteens are and why people get drunk on them, and about how you can sip them in arenas and eliminate the drawback. Which makes me cringe, because, it kinda makes the game look bad that people can abuse things like this.
Not to mention how annoying it is when you're walking along the mountains or road, step into a room, and someone suddenly opens said twenty treasure maps in front of you.
It shouldn't be the only response, no, but it should be one of them. Right now, the only real luxury items buyable by gold is manses and artisan furnitures (and, to a lesser extent, fancy clothes and foods). When high-level bashers make hundreds (if not thousands) times more gold than a novice basher, we need more ways to drain that excess that doesn't also increase the cost for novices.
We need to be kind to our novices. Seriously. I been seeing people making snarky comments at them and being frustrated at the slower to understand ones, and no. Just don't. Be nice to them. Smile and help them understand and don't snark at them even if you are getting seriously annoyed in rl.
3
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I agree, but in my experience people are really good to their noobs in Lusternia. Am I alone in this?
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Eh, Mag has been pretty bad lately. I get that we're all 'the weak must be culled' but that should be balanced with wanting newbies to stick around. I don't care who you are, being rude to a novice on CGT as they step out of the portal is not acceptable. They are probably going to just leave. Also people tend to forget that sometimes novices don't understand things, and make them feel stupid, or complain that they're being rude by not greeting you when you're using a mechanic that means they probably don't even know you're in the room.
There are awesome novice-helpers in Mag, but I don't like that we have to start apologizing for certain players.
It's not like it's isolated to Mag, there are silly creatures in all orgs. I made a Celest alt, and in the middle of the end-of-intro spam I apparently got a message that I missed. When I asked what I was supposed to do, I was immediately threatened with beheading for missing that message.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Regarding novice retention, I don't care if it's been said, I'll say it again: each guild needs to have a very clear advancement help file. In ours it says "This scroll is for those who have just graduated the college and are aiming for the second guild rank." and lists the help file name.
There was a novice that just logged off because there was no one around to decipher the help file and despite the best efforts of someone they couldn't make any progress.
Flames erupt from the caldera below as a distorted voice echoes, "Their spirit must be broken if they wish to be reborn as true warriors."
I thought the Aetolia newbie intro was a lot more comprehensive than ours. Let's just rip that off.
Last time I played it was not very intuitive. (granted, like 2009).
I'll check it out.
I tried it a few weeks ago. Granted, I was referring to both their intro and their...academy? Whatever they have in place of collegiums. I assume it would be a bad idea to actually try to just rip it off, but it seemed to be more comprehensive in explaining basic concepts.
Are there any basic concepts you felt the other intro offered that we don't? I haven't played Aetolia, but specific feedback on things we are missing is always something we are interested in!
As a recent retiree from Aetolia, I have been promoting the game to people I know from there just kinda putting aside some of the misconceptions they have about the Roleplay and PK environment here. The consensus I have heard from them is all I have heard about Lusternia is its (The Furry Game) (Not that there's anything wrong with that) but that the roleplay evironment was lackluster, which I have been combatting a bit, but really alot of the other players from other games are kinda clueless on the depth of the lore or what Lusternia has to offer, I think somehow developing a strategy which will showcase that Lusternia is more than a niche game and offers alot of diversity will bring it beyond the fact we have many animal-themed playable races and perhaps enrich and bolster the Community with new players.
If anything as a convert from Aetolia, I am missing things like the Attire system for clothing, and alot of the RP quality of life perks, not that its breaking my experience whatsoever, but its just not as pretty to look at my description, I also miss things like item posing and other tools in that genre. Attire was nice because it would look like this
He is a nimble shadowsinger faeling and rather dimunitive in appearance blah blah blah
He is wearing
(gleaming brightly atop his nose) a pair of rose-coloured spectacles
(draped off his shoulders) a cloak of crow feathers
(worn comfortably on his feet) a pair of shadowy boots
and you could ATTIRE CONCEAL (ITEM) to hide
or ATTIRE Glove2389234 worn like a codpiece
for
(worn like a codpiece) a pair of fingerless musician gloves
I think just having more customizability at least for me as a past spoiled aetolian really helped grasp and retain characters who are into creating a depth to their character and having customizability on a permissable stage
Mind you we would get smacked if we wore gloves like a codpiece but thats just an example.
Are there any basic concepts you felt the other intro offered that we don't? I haven't played Aetolia, but specific feedback on things we are missing is always something we are interested in!
No offense, but our intro doesn't really offer too many concepts beyond basic attacks, teleporting, and pathfinding. Anything we could add to both enrich the intro and shorten it would be an improvement.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
The Aetolia intro is great. You spend 5 minutes on a special island, and learn how to: move around, communicate (Both says and tells), check your map, check your score/stat, set and read a basic prompt, use a store, sip potions, get items, use containers (like a pack), use IH and II, kill critters, learn skills, do quest handins, and how to interact with npcs in general. It's quick and easy, but you actually learn how to play the game. Its story is a little problematic in that every player in Aetolia has the same rather improbable escape story.
IIRC, the imperian intro is similar. You do a set of 6 tasks collegium style that teach you the basic lore of the game, how to use shops/items, how to fight, how to learn skills, and how to communicate. Then you get plopped out.
EDIT: I don't remember if you can skip the intros, but they're short and interesting enough that I've never really felt the impulse to do so. The extreme length and 'locked in' nature of the Lusternian intro sucks more than spending a few minutes in a little newbie teaching station.
I recently tested Achaeas when looking for games to come to, theirs was the most enjoyable cause it sent you on this epic quest to become part of your City and then earn your way into a guild, I thought it was the most involved intro I have ever played in any IRE game thus far, was alot of fun.
Comments
That's what I thought, but wasn't sure. Figured they'd throw the book at him and tell him that the M&M of yore was violating the Terms of Service in some way (which most other systems at the time did as well).
Was very confused by his choice of open source licensing. But that's another matter entirely, and not one fit for this topic!
I like the idea of having a table or booth at a convention, or maybe even a producer's talk. Awesomecon here in DC is coming up this summer, and the early bird tables weren't that expensive at all, one of my merchant friends mentioned like 150? It's 300 now. But there are free tables for fan groups under Promotion. (Maybe we could make a case for 'improving creative writing and reading proficiency through gamification'
I do think even the small things in merch count for something. Sometimes I fall in love with the quality of art/merch before I even know what the main product is. 'Omg, that's cute! Oh, it's for Super Fluffy Llama World? I see..'
Or maybe just getting something into goodie bags, official ones handed out, or unofficial ones that you give away from your booth or table.
Where it's kind of at: 'Online services, especially games, need to build up communities with shared interests whose members feel comfortable using the service. Once the product is running and its core community has been identified, all the online resources should be bent to building, sustaining and protecting this community.
Without such a community the product will have to rely on advertising bringing in 'passing trade' and one-off purchases, which while they may sustain the service for a while are inherently unstable. This instability will soon result in customers deserting the product for the 'next big thing', making consistent sustained usage very difficult.' -Phlogiston Blue.
I'm a consent-based roleplayer! Kindly ask first, and I will return the favour. Open to developing tinyplots.
Atlantis is my client of choice! (Guide)
The game itself is delightful. There's rich lore, dynamic systems, and multiple styles of play. Most of the people I've interacted with have been equally enjoyable, and often went out of their way to check in and/or help me through the basics. These are all major points for Lusternia.
What I did find vexing though were instances where I was prevented from being able to do anything, such as the case of 10 hours spent as a guild novice. While I understand the reasoning behind it and that there are ways to reduce this amount of time, it became a major turn off because it robbed me of a lot of momentum. There was literally a point where I couldn't use the lessons I had earned to progress my guild skills, and the requirements to remove that novice block were so large that it felt like it would take more than 10 hours to complete them; this transformed a very exciting game into a sit around and wait one.
While I'm sticking it out and working my way through (with help from wonderful friends) this sort of play delay and momentum kill is deadly for newbies.
How do we fix this and recruit more newbies like myself? I'm not exactly sure, but I hope the devs find this insight helpful.
Thanks for making and maintaining such a fun game!
This was my earlier attempt to gather ideas and at least get a few more gold sinks:
http://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/51/gold-sinks-from-the-old-forums#latest
</shameless self plug>
Not to mention how annoying it is when you're walking along the mountains or road, step into a room, and someone suddenly opens said twenty treasure maps in front of you.
We need to be kind to our novices. Seriously. I been seeing people making snarky comments at them and being frustrated at the slower to understand ones, and no. Just don't. Be nice to them. Smile and help them understand and don't snark at them even if you are getting seriously annoyed in rl.
There are awesome novice-helpers in Mag, but I don't like that we have to start apologizing for certain players.
I tried it a few weeks ago. Granted, I was referring to both their intro and their...academy? Whatever they have in place of collegiums. I assume it would be a bad idea to actually try to just rip it off, but it seemed to be more comprehensive in explaining basic concepts.