Also, petition to change @Maligorn's name to Michael Bay, because I'm pretty sure if he made a movie, it would just be a bunch of explosions with absolutely no substance.
Just to chime in on the ridiculousness of the claim that the South is the source of the game's vitriol:
I play many characters here and there, from a wee Tracker ur'Guard to a Glamours Symphonist. It's only ever in the North do I experience being ridiculed and talked down to for 'failing at combat' and that I'm nothing more than dead weight pulling the team down.
Also, briefly off-topic (apologies, but Maligorn has irritated me by insinuating that the South -- which I am a part of -- is the reason for vitriol), the South is the only place my characters have been embraced. Hallifax, Serenwilde and Celest have not really been welcoming, beyond Yarith (yes, Yarith is more welcoming than the rest of you that I've met!), so don't sit there and tell me the South, who warmly embraces interactions (and I certainly do, so don't tell me otherwise, because the North often interacts with me positively), is a reason the game is negative. Comments like what Maligorn has spewed out are what make a game negative, and that My Side Is Superior mentality, and that feeling of elitism that's just been espoused. (That said, I have never been accused of performing badly in combat, anywhere, and if you treat people that way because you lose, you, sir, lose your gold stars.)
There is nothing wrong with bonds. You don't like it because it means your friends can't rescue you. Learn to work around it, the way we learn to work around things like staticfield, and quit your whining before you make everyone else -- who should not feel bad for defending a skill that is not bad -- regurgitate their lunch out of stressful social interactions.
I, personally, don't care how the North treats its players, because over the years and across many characters, I've grown more fond of and comfortable playing with people in the South. If the North players like the way they roll, that's their choice.
I only really brought up my anecdotes and experiences to refute @Maligorn's amusing rantings that the vitriolic home for toxicity is the South. It's far from it (although there are stunning exceptions, mostly coalescing in the form of Munsia).
Just saying: give Celina, Sidd, Shuyin, and freaking VIYNAIN access to WildArrane and they'll show you how it's done.
Genuinely curious. Why did Wildarrane show up?
Hi @Malarious! WildArrane showed up because some people were immensely downplaying the spec! It's actually a pretty good bard spec!
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
It make me so incredible sad about all these arguments it's that people like to use 'the north' and 'the south' in any argument, which just divides further instead of see us all as a should be unified playerbase. There's a lot of people in the south I totally adore despite me not getting to play with them much and am sure many people from the south feel likewise about many Northerners. :x
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I've played in every commune, in every guild, in every order, and in most every family. Sometimes I let people know who I am, sometimes I don't. I have an active novice alt in both alliances, and I noticed a slight disparity. Alt #1 is in the South, and has connections with most people in their org. They have not been invited to a single clan, OOC, combat, or otherwise. They still get plenty of help with combat from in-character discussions and actually interacting with the combatants and repeated trials to get better. Never once have I been told to 'get good' or 'avoid doing this because you're deadweight (paraphrased)'. Instead, I was encouraged to play and experiment with my main skill and interact with the Champion (haven't seen yet because of time-zone differences) to find out how I can help them kill people and learn the ropes. People let me beat on them and then talked for ages about the org's ideals and beliefs and encouraged me to draw interpretations for myself.
Alt #2 is in the North, and after basic novice communique, I was invited to an OOC clan. Everyone there was lovely to me while I lied about who I was to keep the experiment going, but there was an almost immediate discourse between two other people that I was introduced to. I heard the 'Sorry, we aren't normally like this', and later heard more arguments after some village or something got stolen/lost with Side A blaming Side B and vice-versa. This entire time, I'm asking questions in-game that are answered in the OOC clan, and directed to links and handed pieces of code without working for them or understanding how they worked. When I finally got into a spar for combat practise, and won, I asked for another spar so I could fix some things in my system and tighten my offence. I was brushed off with 'you'll just win again, there's no point' and was forced to test everything through echoes (which someone in the clan explained to me). When I finally got IC interaction, I tried to draw an interpretation from the ideals and was immediately redirected into what that person thought they stood for and pushed to the library to read these three books that could explain so much better than them.
There's good-meaning on both sides, but I think I see the difference between North and South. Do you?
EDIT: As to bonds, I've been yelled at plenty of times by @CyndarinAscends when she was still Celina to stop dropping bonds, we don't want them here, and we were killed once because of it. Until very recently in this turtle-heavy meta (on both sides, I'm not trying to indicate any does it more or less heavily) I thought bonds was a deathtrap because if you were caught out of the group and had bonds up you couldn't be saved easily. Until about November of last year, I hadn't cast bonds in about...two years?
Yup, you can definitely misuse bonds and brume, and I have definitely told people on many, many occasions when they should or should not be using them (including WTF ARE YOU DOING, STOP THAT). They can, and do, bite you in the ass when used inappropriately. The "double edged sword" is not a fabrication. It even disables Night's escape skill, flight, which got me killed on a few occasions. Undeniably, it works more in your favor than it works against you. That does not mean the pendulum does not swing both ways.
But i'm just one of the most noted Night users, if not the most referenced Night user, in the past 5 RL years. What do I know? We should probably listen to Maligorn.
... The basis of Night is, and I think everyone can agree, that it is a double-edged sword. That was the premise of Choke and Bonds. ...
I don't know if you're trying to act like you're some big shot at being a psychic, or if you're just harboring fantasies about game design. Either way, you're pretty delusional.
The "basis" of Night is not that it is a double-edged sword. It just so happened that a few of the abilities in there turned out to be such, and the fact that they are double-edged have always factored into discussions of their balance. End of story. The "premise" of bonds wasn't to "potentially harm the caster". The premise was probably (I say this without surety, but with confidence) to simply prevent forced movement out of the room.
"Suddenly it's not so much a double edged sword as much as a giant sword with a blunt edge for the user and an extremely sharp and deadly edge for the receiving end." -Maligorn
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Since I've been quoted, the basis of Night, or Choke, or Bonds, or Brume, is NOT to be a double-edged sword. They were not made with the designer saying, "Let's make this a skillset that bites them in the ass as the entire start point!" Or at least, that's what I think - even though these abilities turn out to actually DO bite the user in the ass (sometimes).
^ That's the entire meaning of my argument that was quoted.
In no way does that disagree, nor does it conflict, with anything Tremula or Celina has posted. Their posts are saying that there IS a double-edge to the abilities, and I most emphatically agree. I'm not sure why my argument was quoted as though it was in conflict with the two posts that came before it - but if you think there's a disagreement in what was said, then you need to dig a little deeper into what is being posted.
I don't know whether Celina thinks the abilities were created from the get-go to possibly screw with the Night user as the primary purpose. At least, her posts never did imply either way. If she does think that way, I'll probably disagree.
Regarding Tremula's post, I think it's important to note that OOC interactions can be contentious everywhere. Everyone in the "south" has been witness to their fair share of intra-conflict. Everyone knows who I harbor the most intense dislike for in this game, and it's not anyone from the "north". I cannot speak for how "combat training" goes, but I think what is important, wherever you are, is also to do your part to contribute to a more positive atmosphere for the people you are playing with. The people in the "south" are very competitive, and it is a conscious, willing effort on everyone's part to step back when a situation gets tense that defuses and prevents negativity. Doesn't always work (as I mentioned) but effort can certainly improve your own experience, and it definitely has the potential to improve others' experience as well.
I guess we have adults who are still little boys and girls with this pitting north against south and bonds crap.
Damn it Aeden, this thread died.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
I'm honestly wondering why there isn't more of a conversation about static field. Selective enemying and having it work every time is in my opinion overpowered. Unless anyone can tell me that there is also a negative side to static field?
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
It's the same negative side that treelife and currents/whirlpool (and rad) have - it can easily save enemies who were otherwise going to die by moving them away from you if you (and your group) aren't totally on the ball, and unoccupied, and scripted to the gills to account for it.
It has a time limit too. It's okay to be honest. If there's a problem with it, it's a more general issue with fortress rooms than anything else. Nerf that, more fighting.
It's the same negative side that treelife and currents/whirlpool (and rad) have - it can easily save enemies who were otherwise going to die by moving them away from you if you (and your group) aren't totally on the ball, and unoccupied, and scripted to the gills to account for it.
It'll save secondary targets, but secondary targets are... secondary. It'll never save primary targets if the staticfield user puts in 8 lines of extra code in his targeting alias. You certainly don't need to be "scripted to the gills" nor even "totally on the ball". You just need to not be sleeping at the keyboard.
Staticfield is an amazing ability. It is ridiculously strong in the sense that it is a fearaura variant on steroids - and fearaura costs ascendants 50 demi points. Its limitations hardly justify its strength, the only saving grace is the enforced 1-hour cooldown during which its effectiveness drops. I'm not sure of the numbers, of course, but the lower effectiveness range actually needs to be fairly low (nearly never proccing for the last 15 minutes, if not more) to be balanced in my opinion. Of course, that's just my opinion.
In return, the pretty much guarantee'd split potential of the ability far outstrips any other ability in the game. It's certainly unique, and fairly cool. And frankly, one of the few things that are keeping it from being totally OP'd is the lack of population in Lusternia. If we ever get a healthy population again, it'll almost certainly need to be nerfed, because the more people participating in combat, the higher its effectiveness. Multiple aerochems would be able to time their activations to stack it and pretty much maintain full strength staticfields for huge stretches of time, and the more enemies there are, the more chances of getting it procc'd. It's just like reality in the way its effectiveness ramps up to match when the opponents start getting an advantage, though their application and effect differs slightly.
If we really want to change it, we'll need logs and numbers to back up any argument, though.
I'm honestly wondering why there isn't more of a conversation about static field. Selective enemying and having it work every time is in my opinion overpowered. Unless anyone can tell me that there is also a negative side to static field?
Still waiting on this.
The apple is cold, crisp, and sour as the juices fill your mouth. As you consume the fruit, you glimpse, for a moment, a massive, shadowy figure, Her snow-white hair framing a perfect, icy-eyed visage. Beneath you, a vast, perfect web of silken strands lies - and, for a moment, you realize that you too are part of it, weaver and strand both - and home.
Comments
'elist' for me. Also 'enscent' to enemy based on scent.
There is nothing wrong with bonds. You don't like it because it means your friends can't rescue you. Learn to work around it, the way we learn to work around things like staticfield, and quit your whining before you make everyone else -- who should not feel bad for defending a skill that is not bad -- regurgitate their lunch out of stressful social interactions.
I.E people new to combat.
:x
Alt #2 is in the North, and after basic novice communique, I was invited to an OOC clan. Everyone there was lovely to me while I lied about who I was to keep the experiment going, but there was an almost immediate discourse between two other people that I was introduced to. I heard the 'Sorry, we aren't normally like this', and later heard more arguments after some village or something got stolen/lost with Side A blaming Side B and vice-versa. This entire time, I'm asking questions in-game that are answered in the OOC clan, and directed to links and handed pieces of code without working for them or understanding how they worked. When I finally got into a spar for combat practise, and won, I asked for another spar so I could fix some things in my system and tighten my offence. I was brushed off with 'you'll just win again, there's no point' and was forced to test everything through echoes (which someone in the clan explained to me). When I finally got IC interaction, I tried to draw an interpretation from the ideals and was immediately redirected into what that person thought they stood for and pushed to the library to read these three books that could explain so much better than them.
There's good-meaning on both sides, but I think I see the difference between North and South. Do you?
EDIT: As to bonds, I've been yelled at plenty of times by @CyndarinAscends when she was still Celina to stop dropping bonds, we don't want them here, and we were killed once because of it. Until very recently in this turtle-heavy meta (on both sides, I'm not trying to indicate any does it more or less heavily) I thought bonds was a deathtrap because if you were caught out of the group and had bonds up you couldn't be saved easily. Until about November of last year, I hadn't cast bonds in about...two years?
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.