Tweets V: Tweet and Tower

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  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USA
    Celina said:
    If it's that important to you to not be enemied to Glom or Mag, join the org. That way you can't be enemied unless you do something to get kicked out.
    I was Serenguard GM and enemied to Moon, Hart, Moondancers, Hartstone, and Lisaera all at the same time. True story (seriously, it is).
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • UrfionUrfion
    edited April 2013
    Everiine said:
    We're already turning this from a conflict-based, lore-deep RP-game into a mindless collection game, let's not encourage it.
    I'd hardly call encouraging an existing conflict mechanic with an existing collectables mechanic turning Lusternia into a mindless collection game. It's replacing a negative motive for raiding ('I hurt my enemies') into a positive one ('I get rewarded').
  • RagniliffRagniliff
    Urfion said:
    Everiine said:
    We're already turning this from a conflict-based, lore-deep RP-game into a mindless collection game, let's not encourage it.
    I'd hardly call encouraging an existing conflict mechanic with an existing collectables mechanic turning Lusternia into a mindless collection game. It's replacing a negative motive for raiding ('I hurt my enemies') into a positive one ('I get rewarded').
    Or the raiders will just be equally sad when Albion turns into the Raging Maeve right eye curio piece for the fifth time, when the only piece everyone needs is the Raging Maeve left foot.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    That would be the worst form of griefing this game will ever have.
    image
  • ThulThul
    Dude, don't attach curio pieces to raiding. You're going to have Xenthos riding us to raid all the time until he's done, and riding you to get them back up again so that the process goes faster.

    And then we'll have to declare war on Gaudi or Mag once he's got the deadMoon, deadLight and deadSphere sets done. Assuming he doesn't decide to go after the deadNight set first.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Urfion said:
    Everiine said:
    We're already turning this from a conflict-based, lore-deep RP-game into a mindless collection game, let's not encourage it.
    I'd hardly call encouraging an existing conflict mechanic with an existing collectables mechanic turning Lusternia into a mindless collection game. It's replacing a negative motive for raiding ('I hurt my enemies') into a positive one ('I get rewarded').
    The problem with that is that then you get people like me who do not raid much, and turn us into mindless raiding machines for the reward.

    Something about collectibles is just very compelling to certain people.
    image
  • UrfionUrfion
    edited April 2013
    Xenthos said:
    The problem with that is that then you get people like me who do not raid much, and turn us into mindless raiding machines for the reward.
    I'm not entirely convinced that would be an actual problem. If anything, I would think we want MORE raids. Defenders are less likely to get butthurt about raids if you reduce or eliminate the consequences of failing to defend the smobs, as well. Well, at least I would. Maybe I'm being naive.
  • TurnusTurnus The Big Bad Wolf
    Urfion said:
    Xenthos said:
    The problem with that is that then you get people like me who do not raid much, and turn us into mindless raiding machines for the reward.
    I'm not entirely convinced that would be an actual problem. If anything, I would think we want MORE raids. Defenders are less likely to get butthurt about raids if you reduce or eliminate the consequences of failing to defend the smobs, as well. Well, at least I would. Maybe I'm being naive.
    Yeah, that's not how Lusternia works.

    ~--------------**--------------~

    The original picture of Turnus is still viewable here, again by Feyrll.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord

    Urfion said:
    Xenthos said:
    The problem with that is that then you get people like me who do not raid much, and turn us into mindless raiding machines for the reward.
    I'm not entirely convinced that would be an actual problem. If anything, I would think we want MORE raids. Defenders are less likely to get butthurt about raids if you reduce or eliminate the consequences of failing to defend the smobs, as well. Well, at least I would. Maybe I'm being naive.
    If more raids were desired, the penalty for raiding would be reduced.
    image
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    edited April 2013
    ^
    Hence, give us more curios to spend our time and effort on!

    ...I will settle for the soulless diamond to start.
    image
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Eliminating any negative impact raiding has will only serve one purpose... even less people will bother with defending against raids.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    Urfion said:
     It's replacing a negative motive for raiding ('I hurt my enemies')
    That's a negative?

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • UrfionUrfion
    edited April 2013
    Morkarion said:
    That's a negative?
    It's a negative motivator: it punishes failure rather than rewarding success. Think stick, rather than carrot.
  • LiokLiok
    edited April 2013
    Urfion said:
    Morkarion said:
    That's a negative?
    It's a negative motivator: it punishes failure rather than rewarding success. Think stick, rather than carrot.
    I don't feel this works in an RP situation such as Mag, where hurting your enemies is often the goal.  Nothing more, nothing less.
  • UrfionUrfion
    Everiine said:
    You're also ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be an RP game. Yes, eliminating the penalties for smob raiding and replacing them with collectibles would really upset people because instead of the foundations of their characters religions, smobs would be just item dispensers with no meaning.
    You act like RP motivators and reward motivators are mutually exclusive. They are not. What are the smobs now? McGuffins to be attacked or defended, with RP attached. What would they be with a tangible reward attached? MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, with RP attached, and a reward for attacking them.
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    edited April 2013
    Urfion said:
    Everiine said:
    You're also ignoring the fact that this is supposed to be an RP game. Yes, eliminating the penalties for smob raiding and replacing them with collectibles would really upset people because instead of the foundations of their characters religions, smobs would be just item dispensers with no meaning.
    You act like RP motivators and reward motivators are mutually exclusive. They are not. What are the smobs now? McGuffins to be attacked or defended, with RP attached. What would they be with a tangible reward attached? MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, with RP attached, and a reward for attacking them.
    We do get a reward for attacking them. We get power for turning them in. It's not a whole lot, but it's there. That said... what, exactly, is the benefit to defending them if they give curios?

    EDIT: And then there's also the part where we get to pat ourselves on the back and go... "Woo, we sure kicked their butts."
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • LeradLerad
    No, smobs are MacGuffins to be attacked or defended with RP attached, for you only. For other people, it is other things. Stop pushing your own agendas and ideas on other people, because not everyone has the same ideas as you do. You have to acknowledge that people WILL stop defending their smobs if collectibles become a reward, and you have to acknowledge that some who don't usually raid WILL start raiding to the point of harrassment for nothing more than the reward.

  • UrfionUrfion
    edited April 2013
    Lerad said:
    No, smobs are MacGuffins to be attacked or defended with RP attached, for you only. For other people, it is other things. Stop pushing your own agendas and ideas on other people, because not everyone has the same ideas as you do. You have to acknowledge that people WILL stop defending their smobs if collectibles become a reward, and you have to acknowledge that some who don't usually raid WILL start raiding to the point of harrassment for nothing more than the reward.
    I'm pretty sure that my statement was very general: smobs are mechanically MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, and have personal RP attached, whatever that may be. I'm not sure how you can call that untrue. I'm certainly not pushing an agenda on you. Why would people stop defending their own smobs if there was a reward attached to killing their enemies'? That makes no sense. The frequency of raids would probably increase, yes. To the point of harassment? I'm not so sure. The point stands that the current smob reward, power and harming your enemy, is not a sufficient motivator to overcome the risk of essence loss, or else there would be more raids. My understanding was that more conflict is something that is desired, after all.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    Urfion said:
    Lerad said:
    No, smobs are MacGuffins to be attacked or defended with RP attached, for you only. For other people, it is other things. Stop pushing your own agendas and ideas on other people, because not everyone has the same ideas as you do. You have to acknowledge that people WILL stop defending their smobs if collectibles become a reward, and you have to acknowledge that some who don't usually raid WILL start raiding to the point of harrassment for nothing more than the reward.
    I'm pretty sure that my statement was very general: smobs are mechanically MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, and have personal RP attached, whatever that may be. I'm not sure how you can call that untrue. I'm certainly not pushing an agenda on you. Why would people stop defending their own smobs if there was a reward attached to killing their enemies'? That makes no sense. The frequency of raids would probably increase, yes. To the point of harassment? I'm not so sure. The point stands that the current smob reward, power and harming your enemy, is not a sufficient motivator to overcome the risk of essence loss, or else there would be more raids. My understanding was that more conflict is something that is desired, after all.
    You're missing something major here, and that is this fact:
    Every time it is deemed too "easy" to kill supermobs, they get buffed to make it harder.

    It is, by design, supposed to be discouraged to attack or raid them on any regular basis at this point.

    They don't want them to be murdered every 7 days.
    image
  • UrfionUrfion
    Xenthos said:
    You're missing something major here, and that is this fact:
    Every time it is deemed too "easy" to kill supermobs, they get buffed to make it harder.

    It is, by design, supposed to be discouraged to attack or raid them on any regular basis at this point.

    They don't want them to be murdered every 7 days.
    You're probably right. I'll drop it.
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess

    Xenthos said:
    You're missing something major here, and that is this fact:
    Every time it is deemed too "easy" to kill supermobs, they get buffed to make it harder.

    It is, by design, supposed to be discouraged to attack or raid them on any regular basis at this point.

    They don't want them to be murdered every 7 days.
    Never mind that gathering the people to kill smobs can be a problem too. We did go to Celestia after killing the Moon Avatars and we couldn't kill even one... with the same amount of people. True, there were plane effects going which made it harder, but really, if there were people to raise effects on EtherWilde, we probably wouldn't have managed Avatars either.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.
    I'd venture to say we are discouraged to raid snobs at all any more. Other than the rare occasion we feel like a challenge and have a few million essence to throw away.
    image
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.
    Smobs...
    image
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective.
    Ps avatars are easier than supernals. For whatever reason.
    image
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    A lot of us weren't enemied to Serenwilde to make Liveforest have an effect.

    Ripple is stronger then liveforest.

    And, as how this whole conversation started, a few people dropped out before the Celestia raid, as evidenced by Daedalion.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy
    Celina said:
    Ps avatars are easier than supernals. For whatever reason.
    I thought they were supposed to be harder?
  • AlacardaelAlacardael
    Avatars are supposed to be stronger, yes. However, there were more raiders during the EthWilde raid, plus the fact that a lot of those raiders weren't affected by discretionaries.
    If it's broken, break it some more.
  • LeradLerad
    edited April 2013
    Urfion said:
    I'm pretty sure that my statement was very general: smobs are mechanically MacGuffins to be attacked or defended, and have personal RP attached, whatever that may be. I'm not sure how you can call that untrue. I'm certainly not pushing an agenda on you. Why would people stop defending their own smobs if there was a reward attached to killing their enemies'? That makes no sense. The frequency of raids would probably increase, yes. To the point of harassment? I'm not so sure. The point stands that the current smob reward, power and harming your enemy, is not a sufficient motivator to overcome the risk of essence loss, or else there would be more raids. My understanding was that more conflict is something that is desired, after all.
    Mechanically, smobs are also quest givers, essence converters, skill/ability enablers for wiccans/guardians and mobshells for the admin to control during events, amongst other things as well. Just because you are highlighting two out of their multiple aspects for your agenda doesn't make those two aspects the most important aspects that we should consider them in, as your posts have appeared to be pushing for. It's simply illogical to reduce the smobs to those two things and call it a day, because that's simply the way you prioritse the roles that they play. That's in no way a general standard that everyone is held to.

    To be fair, I will admit to exaggerating: there certainly won't be a sudden spike in raids just with collectibles added to either succesfully raiding or defending. Raids and raid viability is tied to a huge amount of other vectors, and greedy as some people may be for curios, adding them to smob raids in any form probably won't be enough to overcome the huge amount of other factors that together contribute to this current status quo of infrequent smob raids. Basically, adding curios won't result in a suddenly worse environment, but neither will it do anything to put the status quo into a state which you profess to desire: more raids but not to the extent of harrassment. And then there is, as Xenthos mentions, the fact that this status quo is apparently one that the admin wish to maintain in the first place. As a matter of fact, it is also a status quo that many people are happy with, myself included. You're going to have to do more than over-simplify smobs to convince anyone to support a change aimed at increasing smob raid frequencies.

  • MaellioMaellio
    @Celina And I'd counter with you're wrong for oversimplifying conflict resolution and we'll just spiral out into a tangential argument, so let's just say we'll both never convince each other and move on with playing the game [much like the thread has]

    @Synkarin That was more my own oversimplification [hence the quotes], there's a lot of ideological overlap between Glom and Halli [both of which I'm rather familiar with personally] so I probably should have used the word 'consumptive'.

    Now what was this thread for again, I forget.

    .oO---~---Oo.

    "Perfect. Please move quickly to the next post, as the effects of prolonged exposure to the signature are not part of this test."

    NARF!

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