Yendor was a Harbinger when you shouted that last night, I checked. And I am positive I could do pretty well with my wonderwand and absurd crit rate (if I was not traveling) no matter what my class is.
Edit: Also the Death resolution. So many ways to make NPC murder happen swiftly!
I totally forgot Death resolution was a thing.
Monks are great bashers but they are not the be all/end all. Their base bashing damage type isn't always going to play in their favour vs whips/wand.
Bal/Eq speed, attack type buffs, damage types and crit rate still dominate.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Being able to use power to bash is a pretty nice advantage during shorter events, but the person who wins the great hunt is probably going to do it with a wonderwand.
Very proud of @Tremula for her work on a rite we were organizing for such a long while. Thank you to @Drocilla and Melissai, Tissah, and Deidre for their showing up. Congratulations to @Kailanna, @Alexin, @Mairin as well. Thanks @Avurekhos for your Warlord presence. I'm very inspired and hope this is just the start of more Evanescent things in the future.
The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
*
A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the theatre due to the snowy weather.
*
Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold, hungering malice.
Flavour Rave of the day: You have to be a Monk to compete for Credit prizes in the Greathunt, unless you pull a 48 hour all nighter.
1. Yendor 27825 0 27825
2. Kaimanahi 23771 0 23771
3. Nicholo 15289 0 15289
4. Mrak 10506 3082 13588
5. Wobou 13262 0 13262
6. Lorina 11931 0 11931
7. Tremula 7517 387 7904
8. Kethaera 7218 206 7424
9. Romaan 7135 0 7135
10. Kalaneya
At -least- two of those are warriors, and two are mages.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I decided to take a break from my vacation to hunt for 1 hour. I chose basic stuff that any Demigod should be able to kill (mechanically, if not politically): kepherans. I also did nothing but standard skill defenses, plus kirigami. Nothing special (no crit food, poteens, wheel buffs, resolutions, etc).
In one hour's time I cleared the bugs from every hive and earned 1206 points.
So less than four hours of hunting even low point reward critters would get me to the scoreboard (#10 is at 4400ish right now). No monkness involved at all, and nothing that really overly abuses the extra stuff I have available.
This actually seems like one of the easiest GHs I have seen for people to get onto the scoreboard. That is a good thing, should definitely be able to make it competitive!
Very proud of @Tremula for her work on a rite we were organizing for such a long while. Thank you to @Drocilla and Melissai, Tissah, and Deidre for their showing up. Congratulations to @Kailanna, @Alexin, @Mairin as well. Thanks @Avurekhos for your Warlord presence. I'm very inspired and hope this is just the start of more Evanescent things in the future.
From a non-Evanescent perspective, it was quite enjoyable given my general lack of ritualism these days. So thank you for allowing me the opportunity to witness something beyond the masque! Hope to see more public rituals that everyone can enjoy moving forward @Drocilla@Vatul@Mairin@Tremula@Alexin@Kailanna
Being able to use power to bash is a pretty nice advantage during shorter events, but the person who wins the great hunt is probably going to do it with a wonderwand.
I doubt that. Yes, the wonderwand is a nice artifact, but it really does not outperform a monk/warrior because of the way crits work in lusternia. Generally more attacks per balance > stronger attacks. Damage typing matters some, depending on where you're hunting and what, too. Divinus-modified weapons for warrior/monk always seemed to outperform the bashing artis on everyday mobs.
I had the impression that even as a non-warrior, you had a chance to do better with simple warrior weapons then a whip, dependent on the mob, though that part is more of a gut feeling then something I've actually tested, unlike the wonderwand vs monk part.
Being able to use power to bash is a pretty nice advantage during shorter events, but the person who wins the great hunt is probably going to do it with a wonderwand.
I doubt that. Yes, the wonderwand is a nice artifact, but it really does not outperform a monk/warrior because of the way crits work in lusternia. Generally more attacks per balance > stronger attacks. Damage typing matters some, depending on where you're hunting and what, too. Divinus-modified weapons for warrior/monk always seemed to outperform the bashing artis on everyday mobs.
Against my pet, Wonderwand did 350dps and Nekotai without boosting did 323dps.
So my 13/13 Divinus Wonderwand does higher DPS against my pet than my 13/13 Monk attacks without using boosting, and I get to pick 100% of the damage type instead of just a portion. If I presume that you're using pet balance to raze when you're able to, the only advantages monk should be giving you bashing is when you spend power to boost and when you're razing without pet balance.
So the winner of the Great Hunt should, all things being equal, be someone with a 20 gem Wonderwand. It is a 2000 credit 'better bashing than anything in the game' artifact.
Edit: I'd be really interested in seeing what numbers you have that are different. I spent a solid amount of time testing bashing prior to Death seal.
The only thing you are missing is this: If you are hunting things with relatively low health, it is better to do more (lower damage) hits because you are less likely to "waste" the overflow damage and it can spread out across more mobs (netting more kills). The higher the health pool of the targets get, the less that matters because you don't have your carry-over excess damage completely over-annihilating the next critter you see.
Oh, also, there is one other big advantage Monks have (I sent an email in regarding part of it already): the Great Rune of Razing is a big benefit for Monks. It halves the damage of just ONE of the three Monk attacks, the other two do full damage.
1h warriors kind of get a similar benefit, just not quite as good; only one of the two attacks are halved in damage.
2h warriors (or any warrior using an alternate attack like wonderwand or whip) actually get nerfed (lower DPS) using the Great Rune of Razing. 1 second raze speed added on to a base 3 second attack (33% reduction in dps when a shield goes up) vs. a 50% reduction. The ratio gets even worse if your alternate attacks are a base speed greater than three seconds, because warriors can use a weapon to raze still even when using another attack style.
It would be nice if the great rune gave everyone equal advantage.
Oh, also, there is one other big advantage Monks have (I sent an email in regarding part of it already): the Great Rune of Razing is a big benefit for Monks. It halves the damage of just ONE of the three Monk attacks, the other two do full damage.
I don't mind this much.
Attaching a rune to a weapon increases your raze combo damage on a monk by 1/6, and on a non-monk by 1/2. It's a micro optimization for monks, but a pretty big deal for non-monks. If it reduced the damage of an entire combo for monks, people just wouldn't use it at all.
Edit: I use wonderwand for my normal attacks while bashing even as monk, and only use nekotai when I have power to spare or the target is shielded and I can't beast attack. I see the Razing Rune as an effort to improve class balance, not a guarantee of parity.
It is certainly a big deal for warriors when using the rune over raze actually lowers our DPS.
Yeah, if you have a non-comboable raze that's less than 1/2 your bashing attack speed, you just shouldn't use the rune. I don't see a way to 'fix' it though without taking the damage reduction out completely and just letting people bash full speed ignoring shield.
Did your email include any thoughts in that direction?
Edit: Maybe give the rune of razing a skill that lets people RAZE <denizen> for 0.50s balance. It would be an improvement over everything (including non-boosted monk attacks) but not let people just bash through shield.
My idea was that if you have access to the Cleave skill, the great rune just automatically acts as if you used Cleave (adds 1s to your attack time) at full damage. Removes the need to trigger one vs. the other, but does not really impact DPS much at all (will be a wash with perfect triggering, improvement if your triggers are not perfect, saves having to trigger at all).
Another option is to just trigger the above check off of Knighthood itself, so 1h warriors can also use the rune on whips & wands without nerfing themselves.
| The karmic blessing of harmony : 4 hours 28 minutes |
| The karmic blessing of war : 5 hours 22 minutes |
| The karmic blessing of beauty : 6 hours 18 minutes |
| The karmic blessing of justice : 8 hours 6 minutes |
| The karmic blessing of nature : 9 hours 2 minutes |
| The karmic blessing of life : 19 hours 23 minutes |
| The karmic blessing of knowledge : 21 hours 12 minutes |
| The karmic blessing of death : 23 hours 58 minutes |
| The karmic blessing of chaos : 25 hours 0 minutes
#littlegoals
If anyone is curious, this is about about as difficult/annoying as you might expect. Without doing anything special to generate karma(which I didn't), requires pretty much constant bashing/influencing- I lost a couple yesterday from stopping to talk to someone for 20 minutes. Influencing is too slow to do it for long, but the esteem boost still helps... and obviously you can't have them all tic at the same time. Took some planning, and a little math, and keeping careful track of the tics.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Major raves to Nicholo for keeping my spirits up, and then further raves to @Karlach for showing me great places to start my hunt and loaning me two artefacts to start me out strong. Also shout-out to Romaan and Kethaera for giving me the majority of my competition, but also curses upon you for making me work so hard for this. This is my first great hunt as a Demigod, and my first great hunt where I tried to get into the rankings, so I had a lot of fun, and am super excited that I got to despite a blood duel, a religious rite, a pandemic of mutant rats, and the need to sleep.
Major raves to Nicholo for keeping my spirits up, and then further raves to @Karlach for showing me great places to start my hunt and loaning me two artefacts to start me out strong. Also shout-out to Romaan and Kethaera for giving me the majority of my competition, but also curses upon you for making me work so hard for this. This is my first great hunt as a Demigod, and my first great hunt where I tried to get into the rankings, so I had a lot of fun, and am super excited that I got to despite a blood duel, a religious rite, a pandemic of mutant rats, and the need to sleep.
You did amazing, honestly, I couldn't keep up(was watching our respective scores increase for most of the time). You deserved the win.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Being able to use power to bash is a pretty nice advantage during shorter events, but the person who wins the great hunt is probably going to do it with a wonderwand.
I doubt that. Yes, the wonderwand is a nice artifact, but it really does not outperform a monk/warrior because of the way crits work in lusternia. Generally more attacks per balance > stronger attacks. Damage typing matters some, depending on where you're hunting and what, too. Divinus-modified weapons for warrior/monk always seemed to outperform the bashing artis on everyday mobs.
Against my pet, Wonderwand did 350dps and Nekotai without boosting did 323dps.
So my 13/13 Divinus Wonderwand does higher DPS against my pet than my 13/13 Monk attacks without using boosting, and I get to pick 100% of the damage type instead of just a portion. If I presume that you're using pet balance to raze when you're able to, the only advantages monk should be giving you bashing is when you spend power to boost and when you're razing without pet balance.
So the winner of the Great Hunt should, all things being equal, be someone with a 20 gem Wonderwand. It is a 2000 credit 'better bashing than anything in the game' artifact.
Edit: I'd be really interested in seeing what numbers you have that are different. I spent a solid amount of time testing bashing prior to Death seal.
Your beast, honestly, is a bad test on this. Pick instead an area that you know well, run it as a monk and then run it with your wonderwand and do that a few times. the monk is almost always faster, because of this:
each of your three monk hits gets a separate -crit- roll. That means, on average its is not uncommon for two if not all three of your hits to crit, boosting your average dps way above that of the average wonderwand dps. This furthers with things like dracnari / fireball being able to trigger on -every- of your hits, meaning you get three chances to get a dracnari burst which can crit again on its own... so in theory you can get up to 7 attacks from your three monk attacks ( beast + 3 dracnari ) plus an average of 3 crits in those ( with roughly 50% crit chance ).
On top of that, if there's more then one mob with the same name and you crit the mob somewhere during your four to seven attack spree, you'll hit the second mob as well and might kill it as well. Add damage shift into this fold and you might see where am coming from.
Mathematically that is wrong. Having more hits crit does not raise your DPS. Criticals are just a multiplier.
So if you have 3 small attacks that do 10 damage each, and each one gets a 4x crit, you end at 120 damage.
If you have one big hit that does 30 damage and get a 4x crit, you also get 120 damage. Yes, fewer crits, but each does more damage so the math evens out to a wash.
The only thing that throws this off is when multiple smaller crits can each kill off a critter on their own (spreading the damage out) while the larger damage attack just "wastes" most of the excess per your last statement. The original paragraph itself is not mathematically an issue.
Edit: Getting more shots at fixed reactives that do flat damage is definitely a bonus, but that is more an issue with reactives than monks imo, we have been trying to get cooldowns on those as much as we can.
Edit 2: More personal observation kind of thing, back when I had a divinus whip, I outkilled Monks when we had large groups (higher damage of the right type wins out), and they usually beat me with smaller groups (lower health pool mobs playing to their mathematical strengths). Same seems to be the case with wonderwand, but have not had as extensive an observation of that.
I am getting what you're saying @Xenthos in regards it theoretically evening out. Its not like I've not given this extensive thoughts. Maybe the conclusions I've drawn wrong, that is entirely possible, but the observations are not that it evens out. I hunt with the wonderwand a lot and I (almost) always am slower then I am as a monk. For me, this was always in the disparity of the crits, for not only are they more, but they're also more likely to happen.
There are a lot of variables when you consider bashing math. In addition to what's been said, mob weaknesses/resistances to damage typing are really significant, and that's where physical attacks being limited to (some percentage of) blunt or cutting isn't universally advantageous. For example, bashing in Icewynd with fire attacks generally outpaces monk/warrior.
But particulars aside, I do think that monks/warriors are mostly advantaged by shield razing, by proccing more bonus damage like racial burps, by having less damage wasted in damage shifting, and in that multiple mobs can be slain in a single balance. It's important to distinguish that DPS is not really the defining metric of bashing, but rather kills over time, and so multi-hitting will always be better when all other factors are relatively equal.
Oh yeah, and monks have acrobatics, so, much less hindering.
Aetherflares! I think my turret proficiency went from 3% to 8%. I'm a little less clueless and Enigma's Gambit had some smart tactics to learn from.
Thanks! I got creative on the fly with a few things, some didn't *quite* go to plan. Notably blowing up your seat and then accidentally repulsing you back onto the dock.
Was a great fight, one that probably would have gone on much longer had it just been two ships firing back and forth.
Also for the "hulls are too large" crowd, I might have found inspiration for a solution on that regard without dumbing down aethercombat.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
You have completed the Sacred Guardian of the Spirits of the Serenwilde quest! You have gained a new honour! The Flame of dae'Seren materialises in your hands.
Woooooo. I love seren's epic, its cool. Except thistleberries, we don't talk about thistleberries.
Comments
Monks are great bashers but they are not the be all/end all. Their base bashing damage type isn't always going to play in their favour vs whips/wand.
Bal/Eq speed, attack type buffs, damage types and crit rate still dominate.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
theatre due to the snowy weather.
hungering malice.
At -least- two of those are warriors, and two are mages.
In one hour's time I cleared the bugs from every hive and earned 1206 points.
So less than four hours of hunting even low point reward critters would get me to the scoreboard (#10 is at 4400ish right now). No monkness involved at all, and nothing that really overly abuses the extra stuff I have available.
This actually seems like one of the easiest GHs I have seen for people to get onto the scoreboard. That is a good thing, should definitely be able to make it competitive!
From a non-Evanescent perspective, it was quite enjoyable given my general lack of ritualism these days. So thank you for allowing me the opportunity to witness something beyond the masque! Hope to see more public rituals that everyone can enjoy moving forward @Drocilla @Vatul @Mairin @Tremula @Alexin @Kailanna
I had the impression that even as a non-warrior, you had a chance to do better with simple warrior weapons then a whip, dependent on the mob, though that part is more of a gut feeling then something I've actually tested, unlike the wonderwand vs monk part.
So my 13/13 Divinus Wonderwand does higher DPS against my pet than my 13/13 Monk attacks without using boosting, and I get to pick 100% of the damage type instead of just a portion. If I presume that you're using pet balance to raze when you're able to, the only advantages monk should be giving you bashing is when you spend power to boost and when you're razing without pet balance.
So the winner of the Great Hunt should, all things being equal, be someone with a 20 gem Wonderwand. It is a 2000 credit 'better bashing than anything in the game' artifact.
Edit: I'd be really interested in seeing what numbers you have that are different. I spent a solid amount of time testing bashing prior to Death seal.
1h warriors kind of get a similar benefit, just not quite as good; only one of the two attacks are halved in damage.
2h warriors (or any warrior using an alternate attack like wonderwand or whip) actually get nerfed (lower DPS) using the Great Rune of Razing. 1 second raze speed added on to a base 3 second attack (33% reduction in dps when a shield goes up) vs. a 50% reduction. The ratio gets even worse if your alternate attacks are a base speed greater than three seconds, because warriors can use a weapon to raze still even when using another attack style.
It would be nice if the great rune gave everyone equal advantage.
Attaching a rune to a weapon increases your raze combo damage on a monk by 1/6, and on a non-monk by 1/2. It's a micro optimization for monks, but a pretty big deal for non-monks. If it reduced the damage of an entire combo for monks, people just wouldn't use it at all.
Edit: I use wonderwand for my normal attacks while bashing even as monk, and only use nekotai when I have power to spare or the target is shielded and I can't beast attack. I see the Razing Rune as an effort to improve class balance, not a guarantee of parity.
Did your email include any thoughts in that direction?
Edit: Maybe give the rune of razing a skill that lets people RAZE <denizen> for 0.50s balance. It would be an improvement over everything (including non-boosted monk attacks) but not let people just bash through shield.
Another option is to just trigger the above check off of Knighthood itself, so 1h warriors can also use the rune on whips & wands without nerfing themselves.
If anyone is curious, this is about about as difficult/annoying as you might expect. Without doing anything special to generate karma(which I didn't), requires pretty much constant bashing/influencing- I lost a couple yesterday from stopping to talk to someone for 20 minutes. Influencing is too slow to do it for long, but the esteem boost still helps... and obviously you can't have them all tic at the same time. Took some planning, and a little math, and keeping careful track of the tics.
Major raves to Nicholo for keeping my spirits up, and then further raves to @Karlach for showing me great places to start my hunt and loaning me two artefacts to start me out strong. Also shout-out to Romaan and Kethaera for giving me the majority of my competition, but also curses upon you for making me work so hard for this. This is my first great hunt as a Demigod, and my first great hunt where I tried to get into the rankings, so I had a lot of fun, and am super excited that I got to despite a blood duel, a religious rite, a pandemic of mutant rats, and the need to sleep.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
each of your three monk hits gets a separate -crit- roll. That means, on average its is not uncommon for two if not all three of your hits to crit, boosting your average dps way above that of the average wonderwand dps. This furthers with things like dracnari / fireball being able to trigger on -every- of your hits, meaning you get three chances to get a dracnari burst which can crit again on its own... so in theory you can get up to 7 attacks from your three monk attacks ( beast + 3 dracnari ) plus an average of 3 crits in those ( with roughly 50% crit chance ).
On top of that, if there's more then one mob with the same name and you crit the mob somewhere during your four to seven attack spree, you'll hit the second mob as well and might kill it as well. Add damage shift into this fold and you might see where am coming from.
So if you have 3 small attacks that do 10 damage each, and each one gets a 4x crit, you end at 120 damage.
If you have one big hit that does 30 damage and get a 4x crit, you also get 120 damage. Yes, fewer crits, but each does more damage so the math evens out to a wash.
The only thing that throws this off is when multiple smaller crits can each kill off a critter on their own (spreading the damage out) while the larger damage attack just "wastes" most of the excess per your last statement. The original paragraph itself is not mathematically an issue.
Edit: Getting more shots at fixed reactives that do flat damage is definitely a bonus, but that is more an issue with reactives than monks imo, we have been trying to get cooldowns on those as much as we can.
Edit 2: More personal observation kind of thing, back when I had a divinus whip, I outkilled Monks when we had large groups (higher damage of the right type wins out), and they usually beat me with smaller groups (lower health pool mobs playing to their mathematical strengths). Same seems to be the case with wonderwand, but have not had as extensive an observation of that.
As for reactives and cooldowns, I heavily agree.
Oh yeah, and monks have acrobatics, so, much less hindering.
Monk bashing damage is a bit much I think considering its nearly as good as a big artifact.
Was a great fight, one that probably would have gone on much longer had it just been two ships firing back and forth.
Also for the "hulls are too large" crowd, I might have found inspiration for a solution on that regard without dumbing down aethercombat.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
https://estelss16.deviantart.com/, visit if interested.
You have gained a new honour!
The Flame of dae'Seren materialises in your hands.
Woooooo. I love seren's epic, its cool. Except thistleberries, we don't talk about thistleberries.
So, how about those thistleberries?