Announce Post #3061: Ascension Postmortem

Melech · July 2020

Wait, people are so upset about the player they supported being a "non-special ascendant" that they're relentlessly bombarding him with toxic rhetoric that's making (or made) him consider leaving the game?

Neat.

Mboagn · July 2020

edt; this is in response to Synl's and Maligorn's posts about alliances and friendship

Hehe yeah, like, I get that alliances are not about friendship, but you don't say it. It's like how you don't say that someone's baby is ugly. :'(

Eve · July 2020

Maligorn said:
I just wanted to isolate this real quick. This attitude is how Glomdoring got into a 4v2 situation.

Because we wished to speak with a City Leader about a couple of topics? They refused and thus decided to call us tyrants? I'm not quite curious about which version of the story you were told. Perhaps we could speak IC about it sometime, that is.. if you wish and could prove to be worth the breath to Evette.

Edit: Curio / curious, same same- yes? :P

Orael · July 2020

Let's make sure we're staying on topic here.

Shango · July 2020

Creeping Doom was very much a problem. Far too powerful and overtuned. Because of lag. That's it...not because of the skill, not even really because of the slew of Wyrdenwood that went that specifically to take advantage of the fact lag would be bad (bad faith as pointed out, maybe, but honestly that's just being smart. I cannot fault anyone for thinking ahead when something IS going to be an issue, same reason why raiders don't just waltz into guard stacks to chase people down, they KNOW what's going to happen...), but the skill itself is fine. I mean maybe that bleed+stun+so many able to go off so close together is an issue, but...no, it was entirely the lag at fault with this event. I have confidence it will be addressed, the prior Ascensions were FAR better on lag than my first (the one Kelly was raised as Kaimanahi), just a matter of tweaks required. Even WITH the lag, we managed to wrest the staff away from Equinox at least twice, just couldn't get to where it needed to go before timing out, dropping, and @Ciaran grabbing it again (good work there, by the way, Creeping Doom would've been irrelevant without it, so MVP goes to him on your side more than not). @Uzriel had the staff in my room NEAR a node (also good work, I couldn't get my CARRY to work at all once in the room...), but Kethbit spawned and massive lag, was one of those that sprawl you, we were both locked down and unable to even stand up (I kept trying to get up and move in and out so my old Death Medallion would remove it, but no luck), so timed out.

Without that lag, Ascension would've been over far, far sooner than it was. Where the victory would've gone had things gone optimally on the side of the world's state, I will not get into. It's not all that relevant as results are ultimately all that matters in any battle, not the circumstances before reaching them quite as much. But it's done and cannot be honestly redone. Even if that was the decision gone with instead, it'd never go quite the same and still always feel just a bit off. What was done may not be everyone's ideal (I'm all for just TA'ing everyone with a Medallion, just to spite those that wasted everyone's time getting that honour then quitting the game instead of trying to improve it for others :P ), it IS fair to the only two that mattered. No, not you or you or you, or even me...those that had the active Seals this time around, and the two that had the closest-to-victory points. That lag was the enemy more than Souless was the real culprit, that we got anything instead of oh....NO ONE gets TA (which they could've also done, that would've been horrible too) or the whole issue just resolutely ignored instead of an active, actual result to show consideration to the efforts put in by all, is enough. The next Ascension, as there will be more, hopefully the hardware and software issue that caused the lag can be fixed or vastly mitigated, and we can do better. You still are playing, you still have importance to the world of Lusternia, embrace that. All else...ultimately...isn't so important. The only ones that should have a say in this latest affair, lies far more with @Parhelion, @Ixion, @Orael, @Aonia, and other unseen admins. They seemed to go with a decision that would be the most fair to all, given everything that went into it, and the real monster that ruined the experience for everyone being overcome in some fashion beyond ignoring it was a problem (i.e. the lag) It's a novel solution since we've never had two TAs at once, so why not, this wasn't a normal Ascension given the delay from the usual time of the year it was held and whole new Seal added to Avechna. That it was lag/aeon that messed things up...a certain sense of irony at least is present, even if it's frustrating as shit and undermined all efforts put into this thing by both sides involved.

But you all gotta stop lashing out at everyone else. It was the lag at fault, no one intentionally interfered with or threw the game, yes there was the usual metagaming childishness that springs up EVERY Ascension to mess with things, but that's just part of it. Creeping Doom was horrid to deal with, but it's not even the skills mechanics fault, nor those that used it...everything was because of lag. And the admin have done their best to make up for it as they could without breaking immersion (I mean besides an anomaly being involved, very nature is a nonexistent...but we'll all overlook that :P ) and a solution was arrived at with the intent to treat everyone involved fairly. The intent is important, why punish someone for that? Can they do better? Offer ideas, maybe they can...or maybe use said helpful suggestions to make things even more fun and interesting the next time around. And next time WILL come.

Fix the lag, best as is possible...over a hundred people were online this time, unprecedented indeed...and we may find things far more entertaining here on, using this as a learning experience, rather than a lynching or finger pointing opportunity. Just chill out...this is still a game, an escape, and something we all should be enjoying.

Shango · July 2020

Also do NOT harass either of the new TAs. They did their best, and whatever the outcome, have both contributed in their own ways to the game at large. THAT goes for as much 'my side' as it does the other. Emotions run high, but we can do better, and look forward to the next time yes?

Xenthos · July 2020

Orael said:

I guess I misunderstood what you meant by back-end conversation Xenthos, I don't view our conversation with Parhelion or Ixion as 'back-end.'

I think you're missing a big thing here, and I was very clear when I originally approached you that I felt that putting the decision on Ixion and Choros was a back-room situation:

The win was not on either of them.

Ascension as an event is not about the person being raised- it's about the entire team (which includes that person). I am uniquely positioned to know this. Choros said the same thing in a post here as well. Choros was not the leader of our group- if anything, it was Aramel. We were all focused around a common goal: Get Choros the staff, keep him alive, get everyone else dead. It's a team goal, it's everyone pulling together to achieve something great, and the win is everyone's win.

Yet you keep saying that asking us, the players who won the event, is unreasonable. That's why it keeps being brought up; the event was ours, too. We were every bit as invested in it, and its outcome, as the people who were asked.

The reason that we don't feel you've been open and transparent is that you weren't. We found out about it when you announced it as a Done Deal in an announce post. There's also a great deal more information in this post here that wasn't provided before (more on that later). I feel that putting that decision on just one player (the other was obviously going to say yes) is the unfair thing here. That one player was part of a team. The team won. And then the post we got said this:

"To this end, we have been in discussion with both Parhelion and Ixion regarding the matter. It has been agreed between us, and all parties, that the fairest thing to do is to raise Ixion as a True Ascendant in addition to Parhelion. We will hold an event this coming Saturday, 18th July, wherein he will receive this in an in-character manner.
We hope that in conjunction with the work we are doing to reduce lag in the future, this will address the very valid concerns and feelings that were brought to us, as well as ensuring that the incredible amount of work that went into the contest is not wasted due to something out of everyone's control."

You edited the first bolded bit in-game, which... thank you. Still reads the same here on the forums, and yeah, that was a gut punch, because it pretty much just threw out everyone else's contributions and said they didn't matter. Then it goes on to say that it hopes it addresses the very valid concerns (of one party)... but says nothing about the other end. It comes across as entirely one-sided, seemingly a complete dismissal of any concerns that might be experienced by anyone else. There is no reference in any manner of the following:

"The decision process occurred as a conversation with the rest of the admin team, volunteers, etc. We discussed the pros and cons. Yes, it was brought up that players may feel like it was a slap in the face, that we were dismissing their efforts. Yes, some admin were worried that it would look like we were buying into complaints and it would just encourage people to complain more to get what they wanted. Some admin pointed out that giving Ixion TA doesn't actually solve the lag issue (which it doesn't, but we've addressed that as well).
We considered just giving a 'present' of some sort to all the players as a way of apology, or even doing a re-do but we ultimately decided that anything short of our decision would just be considered another slap in the face by those that were already upset.
We even consulted higher-ups in IRE to get their opinion on it."

I really can't find any reference to this in the original post; this is the first time that information was actually provided to us that I can see, and that is a step towards being open / transparent. Something I don't understand: why it was decided to just not address it at all? I think that decision, more than anything else, is what has thrown us all for a loop and is what makes it feel so one-sided.

It's taken a lot of thinking to get to that realization, and your reply / my ruminating on it has helped me get there, so thank you. This is akin to what I was trying to get to with trying to attain buy-in statements earlier- just making us feel like we were actually part of the thought process would have helped, versus feeling like we were just being paved over and entirely ignored.

I think if you focus on addressing that, maybe we can get somewhere here. I guess it fundamentally comes down to the feeling that one party's concerns were rated as more valid than the other's. One set of concerns got explicitly, publicly addressed, and the other... just wasn't. Can you see how this comes across to us, from our standpoint? You've now acknowledged that it was at least considered, but we still don't know anything more than that. Nothing else was, to our knowledge, done to address our concerns, though they were raised before the decision was made. We have exactly what we had before this announce post was written, but also all the feelings that came with the post which undermines the achievement of what we managed to pull off despite all expectations (by everyone). Nobody thought we were going to win this thing. The fact that it happened was incredible... and then we got hit with this post.

* I have to acknowledge that you have addressed a post-announce concern, related to having talks to try to make it not feel "super special" / the actual winner - but I'm not sure how that gets pulled off? Just the fact that it's happening separately seems like it makes it special.

Anyways, I hope that helps clarify things for you. It has for me, so at least something good came of writing it.

Mboagn · July 2020

Players have personal motives and to put this decision on them is basically "who has more people to vote".

Xenthos · July 2020

Mboagn said:

Players have personal motives and to put this decision on them is basically "who has more people to vote".

Any particular reason you're equating "asking for input" to "we're going to have players vote and abide by whatever the vote says"?

Mboagn · July 2020

If there are more people who agree with a certain idea, then that idea has a better chance of being approved, whether or not it's the best idea with which to go.

Orael · July 2020

Yes, we knew that some people would be upset about our decision no matter which way we went. I'll say this again. We knew that people would be upset no matter what we did. If we chose to roll with the result, one side is alienated. If we went the other direction, the other side is alienated. So it boiled down to what do we think the best option is for the game as a whole, knowing that we will end up with upset players. We did consider alternative options and those alternatives were viewed as unviable or not enough for various reasons.

We made the decision that we think is best for the game as a whole.

I will note here that I've had players from every org message me in one form or another saying they support our decision and which direction we've gone. I've had a few players message and say that they may not agree but they understand why we did it. I have had angry messages too.

I can say that one of the reasons that we didn't consult players as a whole is that we didn't want to delay this decision longer than necessary and instead move past it. I also believe opening this kind of discussion up to the player base at large would be wildly unproductive, as you've seen both in this thread and in other places it has been discussed by both sides. There are times where a decision just needs to be made, and I think this is one of those times.

As a note, I will be heading off for the night - I will respond to things when I can, but please remain on topic. I don't really want to hop on and have to delete a bunch of posts come morning.

Zelroth · July 2020

I'm some no-body who hasn't been playing Lusternia long at all. I don't know much about the game, politics, classes, guilds, lore, or even a lot of the mechanics that some of you might view as simple. One thing I did learn when I first started playing, more specifically started playing again after quite a while away, was how important the Ascension itself was to the game.

When I played before I didn't learn a lot about the inner workings of the game. I pretty much always bashed or stood around wondering 'What can I do now to be productive,' I didn't really enjoy my time playing and ended up quitting in the long run. I've tried a few times to come back, I just couldn't get into it because I didn't have anyone to point me in any sort of direction or answer any of my questions.

I don't hold that against anyone by the way, I don't blame anyone for my lack of knowledge of the game or anything of the like. I understand that people have real lives.

When I made Zelroth I wasn't expecting much honestly, I had no idea there was anything going on, I just thought I was going to come around and do some bashing and maybe this time get to Demigod. (level 93 by the way, really excited to reach Demigod) I was told about the Ascension, and I remember sitting at the Megalith in Magnagora watching the Deathsights from the War Ascension trial with Kailanna and talking to her about it.

She told me what team she was rooting for, she explained the event to me and what it was leading too. Zelroth said to her that one day she was going to be rooting for him to win as well. It was in that moment that Zelroth decided that he wanted to participate, and actually win a seal of his own.

I spent some time reading about my abilities, trying to put together a way to kill other players to the best of my ability. I asked Shango, Thalkros, Ixion, and several other for tips. Sure, not all of them could provide specifics but they gave me enough to help formulate some sort of idea of how I can attempt to kill people on my own as well as in groups.

Skip a head a bit, and it's the week of the Ascension. I go get my daily credits, and once I'm done I go and sit at the Megalith. Continuing to try and figure out how -I- can best assist Magnagora and hopefully show that I would one day be worth showing that Zelroth will be someone worth supporting during an Ascension in the future. I put a lot of work into it, sure I had help, sure I had people giving me advice, but in the end it was -me- that put forth that effort to hopefully engage in a big fight with so many other people. Just to be completely crushed because of how bad the lag was.

I understand that I wasn't the only one, and I'm probably taking this a lot harder than I need too. The day after the Ascension, the only reason I logged in at all was because someone reached out to me on Discord and asked me to go bashing with them on Astral because they wanted to help me get Demigod.

I found out shortly after that the admins decided to ascend Ixion, and even though it didn't make me feel good about my performance in the Ascension (not like there was much anyone could do because of lag) it still made me feel pretty content with the current people in charge of Lusternia.

I joined the Lusternia Discord and was actually pretty annoyed to see how many people were enraged that Ixion was getting Ascended as well. Which, personally, I can't understand.

To those who supported Choros, congrats. Good work. I'm glad for you. (Directly after the Ascension I couldn't have said those words) You guys put in a great effort and it paid off.

To those who supported Ixion, it was a rough loss on the day of the Ascension, I personally feel like we could have won that if it wasn't for the issues that appeared. Good work, and I'm glad that I was apart of that.

To the admin, brave choice breaking the norm and ascending two people. I know some people aren't happy about it, but personally in a situation like this I'm glad you are.

Long post, now I'm done. You don't have to read it all. Have a good day and stop arguing about something so pointless. Only thing that matters is that Choros and the admins agreed that it was what they wanted to do. It was their choice, they did what they thought was right. Leave it at that and move on.

Edit: someone complained about spacing.

Alexandria · July 2020

I would like to preface this by saying I don't really care at this point if Ixion is TA, special or otherwise. IC, I have reasons to dislike it, but OOC he was once my father IC, and once my friend, so I rate it a big shrug from me.

Having said that...

I would like to suggest that people consider how much harm they are doing to the admins and paids with the vitriol being flung about and repeated. Aonia, Orael, all of the gods, even the ephemerals, every single one of them is a player who loved this game so much they gave up truly playing it. That is HARD to start with. The turnover rate before godhood is very high. The burnout rate as a god is pretty damn high too.

Ascension must have eaten hundreds of hours of their collective time. Hundreds. Schedules tweaked so they could be available to help with the RPs, with the behind the scenes things. Looking on from above, hoping their favourites (yeah, we all know they have them) get what they're hoping for, commiserating from afar if they don't, cheering if they do.

As upset as so many of you are, imagine how upset you would be if the game you gave up playing to help was throwing this at you personally. You can say it's not personal all you like - everyone who is feeling hateful, invalidated and ignored and posting here about it, you are pushing those same emotions to them too.

I wouldn't want to be one of them right now.

Alexandria · July 2020

Sorry for double post, though I should clarify: It's totally reasonable to not feel okay. I just don't think the way we are going about not being okay is within the bounds of reason at this point.

Tarken · July 2020

I've held off on posting because I admittedly needed to cool off a bit after the announcement. I'm not going to give my own thoughts here, as I think at this point it is a fairly circular argument. But I do want to pose one question which I think is the real cause of the pervasive frustration among our side of things after reading over discord etc.

There is a very wide spread belief that if this had gone the other way, we would not be having this conversation. Some people will say that is because Ixion gets special treatment. I think that's nonsense, its an easy flag to wave and you can fit evidence to support it: its low hanging fruit. Ixion is a very capable player who works hard and his stats reflect that. The real reason people believe this is because we were expected to lose; we went into this 7 seals to 2 with a new group and very scant experience fighting alongside Hallifax for the vast majority of us.

If the admin can honestly tell us that if Ixion had won and Choros had lost that Choros would still have been raised even though this was the expected result, I think that would put a lot of minds at ease among whatever they're calling the Glomdoring/Celest/Hallifax coalition now.

Snald · July 2020

I strongly disagree with the idea that Equinox was rewarded by Parhelion becoming true ascendant. That was not a reward to our organizations, that was earned by having the most points when it finished.

Also, an exodus of players was mentioned, here’s the only person who won a seal from Shadowlight pre Halli:

Ciaran (Non-Binary Demigod Changeling).

They have cut their thread from the Tapestry of the Fates.

Ciaran · July 2020

I write this post only in the hopes that it will help admin in the future. I have already retired Ciaran and I will not be returning to play Lusternia.

I tried to use Lusternia as a competitive outlet since a chronic injury to my ankle has taken away my ability to play competitive sports. I don't really play Lusternia for the roleplay, or for an escape from reality. I just enjoyed competing.

To that end, it has been made clear to me over the last week that one cannot simply play the game as it is and maximize success. Equally important to your actual actions in the game is your ability to 'work the refs' as it were. This isn't only with regard to the latest events, it also is a critique of the envoy system approach to game balance as a whole.

There has been a narrative woven over the last week that has gone largely uncontested. This narrative was woven on discord, on the forums, probably in game, probably on envoys, and likely in emails, issues and messages. I cannot say for sure about private channels.

That narrative revolves around the idea that IHC would have been able to win had it not been for the lag. That their winning the event was robbed of them because of the lag. It was at least implied that the sharing of ascension was in part due to the extremely competitive nature of the event. I could have contested this narrative, I SHOULD have had I ever considered that the whole outcome would be wiped away by the admin. It is my view, and the view of many of those who were involved in the inner circle of planning for ascension, that we likely would have done much better were it not for the lag. We had plans in place to bypass any fortress that IHC could have set up. I was set and had tested a pather to capture the staff anywhere on astral in under 0.5s, we had the whole alliance set to regroup on the leader quickly and efficiently, and so on. All of this went out of the window because of the lag. Our main leader, Snald was completely incapacitated. For the first 5 minutes of ascension I was stuck in the lag-queue (as I took to calling it) because my pather spammed into the lag and locked our whole alliance out of what should have been one of our main advantages, having a near optimal, if not completely optimized, staff runner.

All of these preparations were made in the competitive spirit. We put everything we could forward to win the event, then when faced with the extreme conditions of the event I didn't throw my hands up and say, this isn't FAIR! Anyone who was in our group chat can attest to the fact. I dug into my system, ripped out the parts of it that were spamming, re-wrote my pather quickly to increase the delays between commands, and we got to work trying to recover in the event.

We were faced with Ixion fortified in a meld with the lagbeast in full effect. We killed him some times, there was some back and forth, and IHC recaptured the staff. Ixion took to running from our group whenever we pushed in and escaped via empress to another node. Due to the lag, we had extreme difficulty regrouping and/or chasing to the next node, giving IHC a tremendous advantage with regard to racking up time while we were simply battling to get ourselves organized. Again, the lag very much leveled the playing field in terms of staff-running. It was far more important who was near the staff when it reset, than who was the faster runner. With 7 seal holders, this slanted the whole event moreso in IHC's favor. In a normal ascension it's a race between the fastest runner and the second fastest, the rest are mostly irrelevant.

In the end we managed to grab the staff, but they were still able to force Choros to drop it twice... We managed to get the staff and deny Ixion even a mere 4 more minutes of holding it, I was dealing with the lag just as much as the 6 other runners that IHC had to get the staff. We still did it.

I would have loved to have present the case for why it is not in the competitive spirit to raise Ixion as well, before the decision was met, but alas, I was not asked. Choros didn't know any of this, I don't harbor any ill-will toward him or his role in this decision, but it is a simple matter of fact that he wasn't involved in the planning and preparation on that level.

In the end, my voice was never heard nor sought out because I didn't wade into the arguments waged on discord/the forums/etc. This allowed a dubious at best narrative to continue to evolve unchecked. Whether the admin consider themselves to have been influenced by this narrative is beyond my knowledge, but from now on the assumption is that with a concerted campaign of 'working the refs', the entire outcome of an event can be altered.

I no longer have any interest in competing in Lusternia. I would have to be afraid that every victory may be relitigated and that I should make sure to post-factum argue why the outcome was justified. I hope that what happens in Lusternia in the future is more clearly bounded to what is done INSIDE of Lusternia the game. I don't know how other people feel about it, but arguing about everything on discord and the forums isn't fun.

That's not a game any more.

Enero · July 2020

I do not believe I could express my opinions or concerns better than Xenthos already has - I support and can relate with the opinions he has voiced. I hope the concerns that were brought up will not fall on deaf ears and will be taken into consideration.

Personally, I have no OOC issues with Choros and ICly, I quite enjoy the interactions we've had. What I do find an issue though, is the fact that this decision was made by speaking only with ~1/40th of each party that was involved. As if that was not bad enough, said ~1/40th of each "opposing" party, have known each other OOCly and been IC org-mates for at least 10 years. I do my best, to believe and accept that lines are being drawn and not crossed ICly, but in an OOC setting, behind closed doors? Am I really to believe it had nothing at all to do, with the outcome we have now?

For me the current outcome is the same as if we had attempted and lost. In fact, it's actually worse than that. I might be making things up, but I imagine that for majority of Equinox the goal was not to make Choros TA, but to prevent the enemy alliance from getting one, regardless if it was Ixion, Uzriel, Malarious, or anyone else, really. New Celest's only Seal bearer removed himself from the competition, not because he wanted Choros to win. He did so due to tactical considerations and pretty much rallied the rest of the City to support his decision. Now everything he did, what we did, means nothing. Because it was decided that two ~1/40th represent everyone.

I'll just finish off by saying I merely express my personal opinion, that should not be considered anything more than a data point in a data set. I do not seek to harm, hurt or belittle anyone, their decisions or opinions.

Thank you.

Xenthos · July 2020

Ciaran's post is why you talk to people first.

I'll miss you, Ciaran. I wish you had waited, but I also wish you well.

Jolanthe · July 2020

Enero said:

I might be making things up, but I imagine that for majority of Equinox the goal was not to make Choros TA, but to prevent the enemy alliance from getting one, regardless if it was Ixion, Uzriel, Malarious, or anyone else, really.

Thing is, TAs don't necessarily stay put. In fact, one of the mainstay features of TA that really, truly separates them from the VA is their ability to move around to new orgs without losing their status. I can see this from the "strictly competitive" angle, but in the long-run of the game and from a roleplaying angle its just bad business. If Parhelion moved to, say, Gaudiguch in two months time, would that also devastate your sense of accomplishment?

This is also not something limited to you - Serenwilde had TAs that hopped over to Glomdoring. These things happen. I think this sort of framing and attitude is just not a good approach for the event.

Mboagn · July 2020

Maybe it's because I'm on the younger end of the player spectrum, but this mentality of "My main goal is to make others lose" seems incredibly destructive.

Jason · July 2020

@Mboagn A metaphor I see it more as is a grand final of soccer or NFL, after all the preliminaries to get there, you have two teams remaining with two captains. Your captain may not be the Captain you want but he gives you the greatest chance of achieving the victory and standing proud, victorious, holding the trophy which is in this case someone on your side, the Captain, being ascended. What never happens is the opposing team also earning the trophy for the tournament and their Captain being ascended. The lag in this case could be considered injuries to your team, not allowing your team to play to the best of its ability. The main goal isn't to make others lose, it is to win the competition and earn the prize which in this situation was robbed from the winning team. I have never seen a competition in another game where the losing team also gained the first prize. Not to mention in this game, the winning prize is not just a trophy, but additional strength and powers.

Enero · July 2020

Jolanthe said:

Thing is, TAs don't necessarily stay put. In fact, one of the mainstay features of TA that really, truly separates them from the VA is their ability to move around to new orgs without losing their status. I can see this from the "strictly competitive" angle, but in the long-run of the game and from a roleplaying angle its just bad business. If Parhelion moved to, say, Gaudiguch in two months time, would that also devastate your sense of accomplishment?

This is also not something limited to you - Serenwilde had TAs that hopped over to Glomdoring. These things happen. I think this sort of framing and attitude is just not a good approach for the event.

Devastated? No. Not devastated now either. A little annoyed and upset? Yep. Would also be the case should they org hop too. That, I understand, is mostly due to the way I accept responsibilities and interpret loyalty. Presented with the option - org hop to an opposing org, after having been given 100% trust and effort from my allies, or go inactive/retire, if I'm no longer having fun, I'd chose the later, 11 times out of 10. That's beyond the point though.

Mboagn said:

Maybe it's because I'm on the younger end of the player spectrum, but this mentality of "My main goal is to make others lose" seems incredibly destructive.

I don't think I can word this properly, but I think there is a little confusion in your statement. If you would replace "others" with "enemy", I'm sure you'll find that it's no longer "incredibly destructive", but instead it's "reasonably destructive". There are two alliances, at war with each other. While TA does not give an enormous advantage, it is still there. What exactly do you believe is wrong, with wanting to beat your enemy?

I'll be happy to continue this discussion elsewhere, as I feel we're really off topic by now.

Synl · July 2020

Stop conflating stuff that is perfectly reasonable IC with stuff that is ridiculous OOC. It is destructive to want your opponent to lose more than you want to win on an OOC level. On an IG level, of course you're going to want ruin and famine on your enemies. We ain't Raziela.

Mboagn · July 2020

True, except this is an OOC forum and the "must make others lose" mindset has thus far been displayed as an OOC thing.

Edit; As an example, I was privately messaged by a player detailing reasons why Ixion getting TA is a terrible thing. Specifically, it would allow Ixion to grief better. The messenger went so far as to say that Ixion getting TA was a bad thing IC and OOCly. That seems like a straight contradiction to what Synl is trying to claim.

Edit2; I can provide screenshots, if necessary, although I will not divulge the identity of the other person in the messages.

Mboagn · July 2020

The inquisition is swift, and I must defend myself.

Synl · July 2020

Well I don't know what you want me to say except that one person is nuts? I have way worse things to worry about OOC than someone else winning a game (esp. with no prize money). Depression ahoy!

Mboagn · July 2020

I guess what I want you to say is that there are people who are taking this destructive mindsey OOCly and that that is harmful to the game environment.

Citinia · July 2020

First, let me say this - Ciaran, enjoy wherever it is that you go. While I have not had any interactions with you IG, I've heard nothing but good things about your kindness and levelheadedness.

For the rest of the posts being made here by players, some are showing a great amount of wisdom and calm. Others, however, are showing great amounts of toxicity. It is actually really saddening to me, as I've left MUDs for lesser levels of toxicity. Both sides are guilty of this, though mostly it was IHC salty before this post and Gloomtide guilty after, with some exceptions.

I have actually avoided Lusternia for days now, not feeling like the player-base is as a whole, something I would want to be around. I would suggest everyone who is angry takes a step back and practices some breathing exercises and figure out exactly why you're being like this, before infecting the world with bitterness that affects everyone, not just those you wish to direct your anger at.

Now back to more ON TOPIC things at hand:

To the administration -
Some of us understand how difficult it can be to attempt to be fair when there is a world full of Karens and Richards waiting to knock you down. It is appreciated that you are doing all that you can to fix any perceived wrongs, while also preparing for what comes next. Thank you.

All of the preparations and fixes that are now being done to limit the amount of lag during large events will ultimately be a Schrodinger's Box until tested. Knowing that they will help, but not knowing if they will help enough. I would like to make the suggestion that another large scale event, combat, or otherwise that would possibly bog down the Lusternia servers be attempted prior to the next Ascension. This would give you a chance to watch more in-depth the direct reactions of the server and lag prior to an event that clearly leads so many people to show their true Karen and Richard colors.

Thank you for all of your hard work, and congratulations and thanks to everyone who put in all the work and planning of their Ascension teams.

Ruiku · July 2020

Synl I completely agree with you, much better things to do than burst a blood vessel over a game, however, I would reference the conversation in the Unofficial Discord shortly after the announcement in regards to OOC vitriol. You were there, I believe, and may have had the opportunity to read them, they were many.

To be frank, the people saying that Ixion would NEVER allow Choros to Ascend had Ixion won are categorically wrong. Numerous players have had an overwhelmingly positive interaction with Ixion, both IC/OOC also know that Ixion would have extended the same courtesy to Parhelion. I do wish more of these players would speak up, but I understand and respect your silence.

It is disheartening to see confirmation of the OOC toxicity: personal character attacks, gaslighting and wishing harm upon another player, but hopefully once this collective cathartic moment has passed we can begin the hard work of addressing the things that create such a toxic environment and break with the players that promote toxicity.

Announce Post #3061: Ascension Postmortem

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