I really do love the idea because after the initial investment in the runes for the standard, it is just another 50 credits per weapon set. That's a pretty reasonable outlay imo, and just light years above what we've currently got now (1500 credits per additional weapon set).
And with the proposal, the initial investment cost will be adjusted to be about the same as the investment cost for the other classes, though that can be tweaked as desired by the Administration. I'd just like a little more parity, and I feel this provides it.
Pointing out that this cannot be 'runes on a standard' since monks don't have standards. Keep in mind that monks are the only archetype where you can't even change guilds and use your existing weapon(s).
So perhaps could be jewelry runes, or placed on some special item made for the purpose (gauntlets, bracers, vambraces, belts, girdles. etcetera).
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Pointing out that this cannot be 'runes on a standard' since monks don't have standards. Keep in mind that monks are the only archetype where you can't even change guilds and use your existing weapon(s).
So perhaps could be jewelry runes, or placed on some special item made for the purpose (gauntlets, bracers, vambraces, belts, girdles. etcetera).
I'd like vambraces or bracers. I'd likely buy some just to wear them. I mean, we already have them in leather forging, right?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Vambraces and gauntlets seem redundant if you're wearing a suit of plate. Give monks leather vambraces, maybe - or have them put them on sashes! And let us warriors put them on helms, so we can make them permanent in the process >.>
Oh, yeah. Forgot about that. Though it's always bugged me how warriors hold two weapons AND bear a standard. I suppose I shouldn't think about it too much, especially considering how we can hold like a million items not in our backpack (presumably in our hands?)
Oh, yeah. Forgot about that. Though it's always bugged me how warriors hold two weapons AND bear a standard. I suppose I shouldn't think about it too much, especially considering how we can hold like a million items not in our backpack (presumably in our hands?)
Straps and pockets. I like to think bearing a standard means sticking it on your back so it pokes out over your head.
Oh, yeah. Forgot about that. Though it's always bugged me how warriors hold two weapons AND bear a standard. I suppose I shouldn't think about it too much, especially considering how we can hold like a million items not in our backpack (presumably in our hands?)
Straps and pockets. I like to think bearing a standard means sticking it on your back so it pokes out over your head.
That style is supposedly historically used by the Japanese. I never studied east asian history, so I'm not sure how exactly true that is, but the accounts I have access to appear to corroborate that Japanese foot soldiers during the warring states era carried standards denoting their allegiance during battle in that manner.
Pointing out that this cannot be 'runes on a standard' since monks don't have standards. Keep in mind that monks are the only archetype where you can't even change guilds and use your existing weapon(s).
So perhaps could be jewelry runes, or placed on some special item made for the purpose (gauntlets, bracers, vambraces, belts, girdles. etcetera).
Uh... read the second post in this thread!
I did. Your suggestion is two different types of items. The problem with two different types of items is you'd need pliers to change archetype.
Vambraces and gauntlets seem redundant if you're wearing a suit of plate. Give monks leather vambraces, maybe - or have them put them on sashes! And let us warriors put them on helms, so we can make them permanent in the process >.>
think more archery guards. Some piece of leather which fits over whatever is below it. More like the leather wrist bands you see people use. I'm not fixed on the idea, I just tossed out a few more incase the GMs don't want more jewelery runes.
Pointing out that this cannot be 'runes on a standard' since monks don't have standards. Keep in mind that monks are the only archetype where you can't even change guilds and use your existing weapon(s).
So perhaps could be jewelry runes, or placed on some special item made for the purpose (gauntlets, bracers, vambraces, belts, girdles. etcetera).
Uh... read the second post in this thread!
I did. Your suggestion is two different types of items. The problem with two different types of items is you'd need pliers to change archetype.
Given that part of the suggestion is changing pliers to cost 500cr instead of 1500... I fail to see how that's a truly awful thing? This change would let you switch from one Monk guild to another without losing your runes (unlike the current situation). Being able to switch from Monk to Warrior would be more like icing on the cake, and not really an intended consequence- but it would still be much easier nonetheless.
Pointing out that this cannot be 'runes on a standard' since monks don't have standards. Keep in mind that monks are the only archetype where you can't even change guilds and use your existing weapon(s).
So perhaps could be jewelry runes, or placed on some special item made for the purpose (gauntlets, bracers, vambraces, belts, girdles. etcetera).
If weapons are not runed, who cares? If weapons are runed... well, it gets a bit more complicated, but then again, it's the same case if you switch from mage/bard/guardian to warrior/monk anyway or the other way around. It's not a surprise there, sorry to say. I have done the warrior->bard->warrior->mage switch before and it was painful on the credits, but eh... you know what you're getting into if you're jumping guilds like that.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The solution is simple: Reduce the cost of the Pliers of Clangorum.
Currently there are roughly 35 types of artifact runes, and they all have to be attached to an item for use. That gives the benefit of making the item permanent but it has a price. By attaching it, you permanently associate the artifact with the item, and there is no means of removing it without losing 1/3 of the credit value or having the pliers. This makes those artifacts less valuable because the act of using them lessens your ability to determine how they will be used in the future.
Personally, I may look at this situation from the perspective of a warrior, but it extends far beyond that. The number of artifact runes has drastically increased over the years, and what do you when you no longer like the item that your rune is attached to? Perhaps you changed organizations and the item no longer fits the identity you want to cultivate but that won't change the fact that your artifact is on it. There are only two solutions available, and both options are unappealing
I want to add my voice to the chorus though. A change in the situation is necessary, and the simplest solution is to lower the cost of the pliers drastically. If the price was lower, it would increase the perceived value of all artifact runes, and it would serve as incentive for more artifacts to be purchased in addition to the pliers.
So let's keep fighting for this because it would make the game more enjoyable and more profitable
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
The solution is simple: Reduce the cost of the Pliers of Clangorum.
Currently there are roughly 35 types of artifact runes, and they all have to be attached to an item for use. That gives the benefit of making the item permanent but it has a price. By attaching it, you permanently associate the artifact with the item, and there is no means of removing it without losing 1/3 of the credit value or having the pliers. This makes those artifacts less valuable because the act of using them lessens your ability to determine how they will be used in the future.
Personally, I may look at this situation from the perspective of a warrior, but it extends far beyond that. The number of artifact runes has drastically increased over the years, and what do you when you no longer like the item that your rune is attached to? Perhaps you changed organizations and the item no longer fits the identity you want to cultivate but that won't change the fact that your artifact is on it. There are only two solutions available, and both options are unappealing
I want to add my voice to the chorus though. A change in the situation is necessary, and the simplest solution is to lower the cost of the pliers drastically. If the price was lower, it would increase the perceived value of all artifact runes, and it would serve as incentive for more artifacts to be purchased in addition to the pliers.
So let's keep fighting for this because it would make the game more enjoyable and more profitable
While I think Daevos' idea is ideal, alternatively there is always the option of a "once off" type of pliers (the equivalent of the Changeling Cameo to the Dagger of Reincarnation). I don't see myself as who would change regularly enough to make the most of the 1500cr investment. I would however consider making a change if their was a cheaper option (this price would need to consider though a top tier warrior typically has 6-8 runes, so pricing it at 100cr a pop would quickly diminish the perceived value of the once off artifact)
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
I like Leo's idea of a cheap alternative to the pliers too. It would work well if it either detached all runes from an item once, as Karlach suggests, or as an artifact that either has a set amount of uses or a short duration of use (an hour).
I present the second option because warriors tend to forget that we aren't the only ones that would have a use for this. Someone may have runes attached to all sorts of jewelry that they no longer wants to wear, and there is no reasonable option for making a switch currently.That's why I brought up the fact that there are roughly 35 types of runes. Only 4 are specifically for warriors.
Also I can easily see a limited pliers being far more profitable than the current 1500 credit artifact.
The idea is much more relevant given that we have classflex for some time now. Having a cheaper or rather cheap pliers option will make people switching more attractive and thus bringing in more cash flow for the game.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
LICH THREAD
Something like a 250 credit artifact to move all your runes at once would be good. If you only plan on doing it once in a blue moon, it'll come out cheaper than pliers by a fair margin.
100 credits seems way too cheap. You have to remember that casters lose complete use of artifacts if they switch their primaries around. Demesne runes, music runes, etc.
Classflex changes that up a little bit. You can hop between melder and crooner at will, if you want.
Even just with skillflex, Xenthos made a good argument for his solution by suggesting that people will want to switch runes onto different weapons for flexing to different specializations. I'd be happy to try something other than BC, if I didn't have to pay out the wazoo for new arti weapons.
To be quite honest, Warriors aren't the only ones who suffer with the way runes are designed. Take one Mage who invests in a staff with shield and gripping runes (both are critical to high tier combat). What happens then if, with the new multiclassing system in place, that Mage wishes to go Bard or Guardian? They can't transfer those runes to their symbol or instrument and their overall investment is highly diminished. It's a terrible mechanic to have to invest so heavily in runes and to go "here's a $500 item to alleviate your problems" is just a kick in the groin to many people who choose to invest in this game.
Sounds like any item that targets an item for effect should be treated like weapon runes. Make a new Runestone or something you attach your runes to maybe! This ONLY works for things like gripping, weapon, etc runes so things like crit runes could still be lent out.
Comments
And with the proposal, the initial investment cost will be adjusted to be about the same as the investment cost for the other classes, though that can be tweaked as desired by the Administration. I'd just like a little more parity, and I feel this provides it.
So perhaps could be jewelry runes, or placed on some special item made for the purpose (gauntlets, bracers, vambraces, belts, girdles. etcetera).
I like the idea of vambraces though,
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Standards are fine for Knights.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Course it's impractical, most designed stuff is. But it's fantasy and it looks awesome!
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Currently there are roughly 35 types of artifact runes, and they all have to be attached to an item for use. That gives the benefit of making the item permanent but it has a price. By attaching it, you permanently associate the artifact with the item, and there is no means of removing it without losing 1/3 of the credit value or having the pliers. This makes those artifacts less valuable because the act of using them lessens your ability to determine how they will be used in the future.
Personally, I may look at this situation from the perspective of a warrior, but it extends far beyond that. The number of artifact runes has drastically increased over the years, and what do you when you no longer like the item that your rune is attached to? Perhaps you changed organizations and the item no longer fits the identity you want to cultivate but that won't change the fact that your artifact is on it. There are only two solutions available, and both options are unappealing
I want to add my voice to the chorus though. A change in the situation is necessary, and the simplest solution is to lower the cost of the pliers drastically. If the price was lower, it would increase the perceived value of all artifact runes, and it would serve as incentive for more artifacts to be purchased in addition to the pliers.
So let's keep fighting for this because it would make the game more enjoyable and more profitable
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
I just cannot justify 1500 credits on an item I may only ever use once.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I present the second option because warriors tend to forget that we aren't the only ones that would have a use for this. Someone may have runes attached to all sorts of jewelry that they no longer wants to wear, and there is no reasonable option for making a switch currently.That's why I brought up the fact that there are roughly 35 types of runes. Only 4 are specifically for warriors.
Also I can easily see a limited pliers being far more profitable than the current 1500 credit artifact.
LICH THREAD
Something like a 250 credit artifact to move all your runes at once would be good. If you only plan on doing it once in a blue moon, it'll come out cheaper than pliers by a fair margin.
100 credits seems way too cheap. You have to remember that casters lose complete use of artifacts if they switch their primaries around. Demesne runes, music runes, etc.