My take on the situation is that lower end players want to earn more gold because there is too much gold in the higher end, which drives up costs like credits for gold. I am not sure if this is because of the gold drops in the top tier areas, or because of gold reserves, or possibly both, but I think the admin should look at high end players and / or hold a survey among them to see what the numbers are like. If the top richest players in the game happen to all have a billion gold stashed away, while your average level 80 would need to bash a day to get that (exaggerated numbers to reinforce my point), you want to investigate into that and adjust things for those top players and not for the low end. Why? Because any boost to the low end is a boost to the top end. I hope that makes sense
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1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited February 2014
I'm not sure I understand. You think making low level arties available for huge quantities of gold (I'm assuming more than their credit value equivelent. Would harm the credit market to make them equal to or less than their credit equivelent) will relieve the gold bloat? The people that have massive quantities of gold aren't going to be buying fesix backpacks and level 1 weapon runes.
Lavinya observed the long term issue as well. The longer these are available outside of the limited availability of the credit market, the more people will have them, thus raising the floor for entry. The floor for entry is not lots of artifacts. The floor is going to be what the majority of the population is, which is little to no artifacts. The floor for entry and being competitive are two different things.
edit: And the "gold bloat" is not a real thing. Credits increase in value over time because their value inflates as the game gets older, which would happen regardless of how much gold is floating around. People will sell them at increased cost so long as people are buying them, and so long as gold is a limitless resource (as it has always been), people will continue to amass it.
Clearly what we should do is to delete all gold generation in this game. The only way for people to get gold would then to make orgs into capitalist enterprises that gives each member a basic wage every in game year based on their rank, and commission pay based on their contributions. And when orgs run out of gold, they can then issue currency based off promised future income from the contributions of said members. /sagenod
I'm not sure I understand. You think making low level arties available for huge quantities of gold (I'm assuming more than their credit value equivelent. Would harm the credit market to make them equal to or less than their credit equivelent) will relieve the gold bloat? The people that have massive quantities of gold aren't going to be buying fesix backpacks and level 1 weapon runes.
They will be if buying them for gold then trading them in for credits works out cheaper than buying credits off the market.
Essentially you set a ceiling and a base level for credit sales. Set your credit prices too high, people will gold buy artifacts and trade in for credits. Set them too low and no one will gold buy artifacts because market credits are cheaper.
The ultimate gold sinks in game right now are gold based lotteries and auctions, and we haven't had the former in nearly two years.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Oh jesus. If you really want to harm the business and undermine the value of credits, that is a fantastic idea. There's a reason you can't buy lessons for gold that, I suspect, the admin have no intention of ever changing.
That is a really convoluted and ultimately detrimental way to police the credit market.
edit: And the "gold bloat" is not a real thing. Credits increase in value over time because their value inflates as the game gets older, which would happen regardless of how much gold is floating around. People will sell them at increased cost so long as people are buying them, and so long as gold is a limitless resource (as it has always been), people will continue to amass it.
I think the problem is that the "inflation" has spiked dramatically since IRE released the Wheel and people realized that the Wheel was extra-generous in Lusternia compared to other realms. This has made it a bit demoralizing to people, especially since generous gold drops were nerfed but credit prices continued to remain high. I don't play in the other realms, but can somebody who does confirm that inflation here is out of control compared to other realms?
Perhaps the best thing would be to implement a credit ceiling to drive prices down, if for nothing else for the survival of the game. Personally IMO that's the only way I can see a good correction come.
The other troubling thing is that the credit inflation could be a lack of SUPPLY, which means fewer and fewer people are shelling out real-world cash for this game. Which is troubling since the game depends on the whales to survive.
It probably in part also reflects Iron Memberships. The same amount of money could be being spent, but in bound credits instead of the free sort (that reflects on the market directly).
edit: And the "gold bloat" is not a real thing. Credits increase in value over time because their value inflates as the game gets older, which would happen regardless of how much gold is floating around. People will sell them at increased cost so long as people are buying them, and so long as gold is a limitless resource (as it has always been), people will continue to amass it.
I think the problem is that the "inflation" has spiked dramatically since IRE released the Wheel and people realized that the Wheel was extra-generous in Lusternia compared to other realms. This has made it a bit demoralizing to people, especially since generous gold drops were nerfed but credit prices continued to remain high. I don't play in the other realms, but can somebody who does confirm that inflation here is out of control compared to other realms?
Perhaps the best thing would be to implement a credit ceiling to drive prices down, if for nothing else for the survival of the game. Personally IMO that's the only way I can see a good correction come.
The other troubling thing is that the credit inflation could be a lack of SUPPLY, which means fewer and fewer people are shelling out real-world cash for this game. Which is troubling since the game depends on the whales to survive.
Credits in Achaea hover about 6000 gold apiece, sometimes more, sometimes a little less. Just a confirmation for you.
The other troubling thing is that the credit inflation could be a lack of SUPPLY, which means fewer and fewer people are shelling out real-world cash for this game. Which is troubling since the game depends on the whales to survive.
Or they never put those credits on market.
I have to say, when I bother to spend real money on credits, I am -going to use them-. Why would I ever bother selling them for gold?
I have a question can you turn in catacomb corpses? Actually if someone could provide a list of places you can turn in corpses id be happy and this thread probably wasn't needed in the first place.
Most turn-in bashing areas are fairly risky. Kephera/Illithoid, Nyalia Merians/Gorgogs off the top of my head, are lucrative enough that you get people competing with you or killing you in them. Less for gorgogs, but gorgogs eat up a lot of liniment. The shallach orcs and the aslaran-krokani grey moors are much easier and you are very rarely attacked when hunting them, but they are also very easy (low-midbie areas) so they are very often bashed out. Even a newbie-ish person can clear them in under an hour.
Frankly speaking, doing turn-in quests alone isn't going to get you a lot of gold, not unless you have a very good bashing speed. Most of the dough in Lusternia comes from quest routines. Easy, short quests that give a little gold, and you just go on a spree completing them one after another. Bashing is really for the offerings rather than for turn-ins. The gold drops are just icing on the cake, and is the number one reason there is a perceived huge amount of gold glut in the game, because people going around doing their daily offering bashing runs end up with tens of thousands of gold at the end of it, while not even trying to bash for gold in the first place.
To be honest, I have been trying to get new people interested in Lusternia as of late, but the thing that seems to constantly scare people off is the ridiculously high cost of credits in-game - they do their research beforehand, finding out that to trans a skill, you need 1,715 lessons, while you get 6 lessons per credit (8.5 for the first however many credits converted), finding out that it means you effectively need 285 credits to trans a skill - at 25,000 gold a credit, that works out to almost 7,150,000 gold just to trans one skill. In comparison, in a place like Achaea, where the gold cost is more reasonable, it costs only 1,715,000 gold to trans a skill, meaning they can transcend FOUR skills for what it would cost to transcend a single skill here (More if they choose to focus on mini-skills, which only require around 700 lessons to max out), so naturally they go to the game that is less daunting progress-wise.
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
You can say "It's Achaea" as much as you want, but numbers talk more than words. People get put off by visibly daunting tasks, such as having to pull 7mil+ to trans a single skill, something incredibly difficult for a non-demigod. This is not the first time I have tried to convince someone to come here, only to have them go to Achaea or another IRE game instead because costs are more reasonable (really the only thing that is more off-putting for me is the fact that some professions and things like housing are put behind credit walls rather than being able to be purchased with gold - but again credits are faster to earn there than here, from what I've been hearing.
Also gold isn't that much harder to come by, with time and persistance you can get enough gold to buy credits by killing rats and catching butterflies - a novice can run around simply spamming CATCH BUTTERFLY and if they find enough butterflies in the rooms, they can earn enough gold to buy a credit within the space of an hour or so, possibly less if they have decent luck catching more valuable ones (worth up to 80 gold each) - that being said, I'd like to know where a youngling in Lusternia can earn 25,000 gold in a single hour these days (Keeping in mind that said person that was catching butterflies was still sub-30, effectively still a newbie)
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Along with what Celina says, it's true that gold is a little harder to come by in Achaea, but not by much. There's deepsea fishing, bashing, quests and all sorts of things to get gold. In Achaea, you also need far less for supplies as far as combat goes and other things, but they tend to cost more as well. My experience is that, unless Lusternia keeps the same amount of crazy-active, heavy-spending playerbase that Achaea has, there is going to remain a discrepancy between the cost of credits on the market between both games. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, because for less work here, you get more gold. With more work there, you get a little less gold. In the end, it really seems to even itself out, so there isn't much of a comparison to be had between the two in a way that seems to really count.
I am not entirely sure why membership credits are bound at this point. It would allow for a greater supply on the market if they were not bound. Does it really matter if someone other than the member uses them? They were still paid for with RL cash.
Capping credits will make them rarer and drive prices up. What.
Cap = maximum price on how much credits can cost. How can they be driven up when they have a maximum cost, besides people trading credits outside of the credit market, which is higher risk
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Capping credits will make them rarer and drive prices up. What.
Cap = maximum price on how much credits can cost. How can they be driven up when they have a maximum cost, besides people trading credits outside of the credit market, which is higher risk
Because they will more than likely hit the cap ASAP. Unless you're thinking the cap should be lower than the current market average, but eh. Either way, poor idea.
Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."
-
With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
I am not entirely sure why membership credits are bound at this point. It would allow for a greater supply on the market if they were not bound. Does it really matter if someone other than the member uses them? They were still paid for with RL cash.
Because you are getting them at a discounted price. 150 credits for $25 is way under how much you'd need to pay to just buy 150 creds off the website, never mind the other perks on top of it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The only real way for the market to take a hit is if people flat-out stop buying credits at the higher prices in a concentrated effort. But, regardless of how they're being sold, people still need and want them. So it's just going to be a thing that happens, whether we like it or not.
Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."
-
With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
Comparing Lusternia's credit prices to Achaea's is meaningless. The value of gold is different in these games; you have to compare the value of time. I made 82,281 gold in 1 hour of bashing kephera - that's without selling the 300+ corpses.
In 1 hour of gold-bashing I get enough gold to buy about 4 credits. Is it really so much different in Achaea?
Because you are getting them at a discounted price. 150 credits for $25 is way under how much you'd need to pay to just buy 150 creds off the website, never mind the other perks on top of it.
A large part of the reason for the discount is that it provides stability and an expected income floor; additional sales build off of that but cannot be counted on. Further, it does not start at 150 credits. You must pay into it for a while to get to that rate (admittedly it is still an excellent deal at 100).
If someone wants to set up a subscription to pay $100 a month, so what? There is absolutely no way of ensuring that other $75 was going to be spent on IRE. There is a very good chance it would not have been, in fact, but the existence of this option would be compelling... and that is quite a bit of ensured income if someone does it!
In the end it should lead to more credits being exchanged in game. More credits being available will help the entire game out; we have long had an issue with our much lower supply.
Then again, I have also been a supporter of fixing RL credit purchases; the bulk pricing scheme is great for getting a large cash infusion rarely, but really, with this kind of setup you want to encourage the smaller purchases as well. I would never buy a $20 package just because the ratio is so poor in comparison to a bulk purchase, but if the ratio was less steep I might be tempted to put in another $20 here and there throughout the year. I doubt that I am the only one who feels this way about the smaller credit packages; they just do not feel worth it.
Comparing Lusternia's credit prices to Achaea's is meaningless. The value of gold is different in these games; you have to compare the value of time. I made 82,281 gold in 1 hour of bashing kephera - that's without selling the 300+ corpses.
In 1 hour of gold-bashing I get enough gold to buy about 4 credits. Is it really so much different in Achaea?
I make 15k a run...clearing out the hives unless i'm not hitting all the hives?
Comments
You have received a new honour! Congratulations! On this day, you have shown your willingness to ensure a bug-free Lusternia for everyone to enjoy. The face of Iosai the Anomaly unfolds before you, and within you grows the knowledge that you have earned the elusive and rare honour of membership in Her Order.
Curio Exchange - A website to help with the trading of curio pieces in Lusternia.
I'm not sure I understand. You think making low level arties available for huge quantities of gold (I'm assuming more than their credit value equivelent. Would harm the credit market to make them equal to or less than their credit equivelent) will relieve the gold bloat? The people that have massive quantities of gold aren't going to be buying fesix backpacks and level 1 weapon runes.
Lavinya observed the long term issue as well. The longer these are available outside of the limited availability of the credit market, the more people will have them, thus raising the floor for entry. The floor for entry is not lots of artifacts. The floor is going to be what the majority of the population is, which is little to no artifacts. The floor for entry and being competitive are two different things.
edit: And the "gold bloat" is not a real thing. Credits increase in value over time because their value inflates as the game gets older, which would happen regardless of how much gold is floating around. People will sell them at increased cost so long as people are buying them, and so long as gold is a limitless resource (as it has always been), people will continue to amass it.
Essentially you set a ceiling and a base level for credit sales. Set your credit prices too high, people will gold buy artifacts and trade in for credits. Set them too low and no one will gold buy artifacts because market credits are cheaper.
The ultimate gold sinks in game right now are gold based lotteries and auctions, and we haven't had the former in nearly two years.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Oh jesus. If you really want to harm the business and undermine the value of credits, that is a fantastic idea. There's a reason you can't buy lessons for gold that, I suspect, the admin have no intention of ever changing.
That is a really convoluted and ultimately detrimental way to police the credit market.
I have to say, when I bother to spend real money on credits, I am -going to use them-. Why would I ever bother selling them for gold?
I wish we had another month of those
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Actually if someone could provide a list of places you can turn in corpses id be happy and this thread probably wasn't needed in the first place.
Frankly speaking, doing turn-in quests alone isn't going to get you a lot of gold, not unless you have a very good bashing speed. Most of the dough in Lusternia comes from quest routines. Easy, short quests that give a little gold, and you just go on a spree completing them one after another. Bashing is really for the offerings rather than for turn-ins. The gold drops are just icing on the cake, and is the number one reason there is a perceived huge amount of gold glut in the game, because people going around doing their daily offering bashing runs end up with tens of thousands of gold at the end of it, while not even trying to bash for gold in the first place.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
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The credit supply is much higher in Acahaea.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
-
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
-
In 1 hour of gold-bashing I get enough gold to buy about 4 credits. Is it really so much different in Achaea?
Vive l'apostrophe!
Now if there was a transfer fee in buying/selling credits, credit speculation would be a lot less prevalent.
Completely agree on not making membership credits bound though.
If someone wants to set up a subscription to pay $100 a month, so what? There is absolutely no way of ensuring that other $75 was going to be spent on IRE. There is a very good chance it would not have been, in fact, but the existence of this option would be compelling... and that is quite a bit of ensured income if someone does it!
In the end it should lead to more credits being exchanged in game. More credits being available will help the entire game out; we have long had an issue with our much lower supply.
Then again, I have also been a supporter of fixing RL credit purchases; the bulk pricing scheme is great for getting a large cash infusion rarely, but really, with this kind of setup you want to encourage the smaller purchases as well. I would never buy a $20 package just because the ratio is so poor in comparison to a bulk purchase, but if the ratio was less steep I might be tempted to put in another $20 here and there throughout the year. I doubt that I am the only one who feels this way about the smaller credit packages; they just do not feel worth it.