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Demigod/Ascendancy Powers

IeptixIeptix
in Common Grounds
So we've been contacted about some issues with how demigod powers work, particularly for Vernal Demigods. Part of the problem is that what powers can be selected when isn't terribly well specified, and also tends to be a bit restrictive. Thus, I've put together the following spec for demipower accessibility, and it was suggested that I solicit feedback here before implementing it. So, here goes:

  • Ascendants have unlimited access to all domoth powers as though they were normal demipowers, so long as they obey essence/weight requirements.
    • I believe True Ascendants automatically gain all the powers associated with their seal at no cost, and this should remain the same. If this isn't the case, things shouldn't change; ascendants are unaffected.
  • Vernal Demigods can have unlimited domoth powers in the ephemeral state, but only one in the supernumerary (i.e. active) state.
    • Converting domoth powers from ephemeral to supernumerary would have a higher cost than normal, e.g. 25% instead of 10% of the power's base cost.
  • Demigods holding a seal may have any or all of the associated domoth powers ephemeral, with the ability to have one at a time made supernumerary, weight permitting.
    • For vernal demigods, this would be in addition to the one they can choose naturally, potentially allowing two domoth powers active, weight permitting.
    • Powers associated with the seal can be converted from ephemeral to supernumerary at the normal 10% cost for vernal demigods, overriding the increased cost above; regular demigods would instead have the increased cost for ephemeral -> supernumerary.
  • Regular demipowers (e.g. stat endowments, divinefire, etc.) remain as they are.
Thoughts?
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Comments

  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    That knowledge is what I've been operating under, at least. Tentative thumbs up?

    image
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Sure
    image
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Wasn't aware of increased costs for vernal demis. Is that new or has it always been like this?

    Beyond that, I see nothing surprising.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • SsalissSsaliss
    I just wish that there was a way for us normal Demigods to play a bit with the Ascendant powers as well :(
    image
  • IeptixIeptix
    Elanorwen said:
    Wasn't aware of increased costs for vernal demis. Is that new or has it always been like this?

    Beyond that, I see nothing surprising.
    That would be new. Currently, vernal demigods can only select an ascendancy power if they have no other ascendancy powers, even if they're ephemeral. The new situation would allow them to put ascendancy powers in the ephemeral state, so they can reactivate them at a smaller cost than completely forgetting them and having to by from scratch.
    7c95dbc25a4a9ae292cccb899a49a79b18529207e135ebccd89c0877d386ebea
    ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    I don't think we need an increased cost for powers for vernal demis

    I'd just say they can have one domoth power active at any time

    Otherwise, all good

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • SsalissSsaliss
    I'd want to toss in an idea:

    • No change to VAs/TAs
    • Vernal demigods can have up to three powers of any domoth active at any time. They can't have powers from different domoths active at the same time though.
    • Demigods with seals can have up to three powers of that domoth active, but they wouldn't be able to combine this with a domoth power from another domoth (see below).
    • Normal demigods can have one ascendant power active.

    This would allow us non-sealholders and non-vernals access to at least a little of the power of Ascendants, while still keeping VAs/VDs/sealholders a cut above the rest.

    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    I say if you're a demigod and want ascendant powers, work your ass off and be an ascendant.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    No thanks to that. If demis want to play, get a seal or get ascendant
    image
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    edited December 2014
    Maybe demigods can "declare" or pick a seal to be aligned with? Spend X essence to choose, double that amount to break your choice. Gives that seal's blessings for less karma, the opposing seal blessing costs more karma, and they have access to that seal's ascendant powers at 50% more weight. Also grants 25% faster domoth claiming for their seal.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • LeolaminsLeolamins

    That is generally how I assumed they worked. 

    The only change is the cost to change.  Can I suggest that if there is a change to cost for Vernal Demigods, there is more flexibility on how many they can have active (maybe 3 active like SSaliss suggested).  Vernal's have a lower weight anyway and won't be able to keep as many active as Ascendants.

    image

    06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!

  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    Honestly, I wouldn't care if everyone had access to all the powers. I feel the weight difference is enough of a differential to make ascendants, VD's and demi's all unique in their own right.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    I don't see a need for an additional cost for vernal demigods to switch out their powers, it almost seems a punishment for having achieved VA. Losing it would already be a blow, but hey, you also have to pay a lot more for those powers you worked hard to get access to and then buy.

    As much as I drool over some Ascendancy powers, I don't think we should just open everything up to everyone, even at higher costs (though I won't complain too much if it happens).



  • ArcanisArcanis

    Shaddus said:
    I say if you're a demigod and want ascendant powers, work your ass off and be an ascendant.
    You make it seem so easy, when becoming an ascendant is considered the epitome of achievements in the game.


    Personally, like Synkarin said, I wouldnt mind if they were all opened to all Demigods+, Frankly the weight alone would make Demigods pretty limited in what they could choose.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    With the weights being what they are, it's not like demigods will be running around with a bunch ascendant powers on the regular anyways.  Taking just one useful ascendant power will eat up at least 60% of a normal demigod's weight limit.
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    edited December 2014
    Enyalida said:
    With the weights being what they are, it's not like demigods will be running around with a bunch ascendant powers on the regular anyways.  Taking just one useful ascendant power will eat up at least 60% of a normal demigod's weight limit.
    Let the destro-wars commence?

    EDIT: That said, if we go the route of opening up all powers to all demis, what's the perk they get for having a Seal? One free power of their choice from the seal?
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • IeptixIeptix
    edited December 2014
    Leolamins said:

    That is generally how I assumed they worked. 

    It's (roughly, not exactly) how I'd assumed it worked, but it's not the case. It's not -hugely- different, the main difference being that currently sealholders/vernal demis can only select powers if they have currently purchased none others, ephemeral or supernumerary. The extra cost proposed for vernal demis is to provide a middle ground here: vernals (and sealholders) can have as many powers made ephemeral as they like, but the cost is higher than normal because previously you'd have to buy them at full price every time. I'm not terribly attached to the cost increase, but I'm also not sure it should be completely trivial to swap powers around at will, either.

    As for opening the powers up to everyone, that's a bit beyond the scope of what I'm doing here. I'm mostly trying to keep close to the status quo while a) fixing some annoying bugs, b) making having a clear definition of what powers are allowed when, and c) making working with the powers a bit less arduous.

    EDIT: To be clear, there is already a cost for converting a power from ephemeral to supernumerary of 10% of the base cost. The increase above would ONLY be for vernal demigods/sealholders switching ascendancy powers from ephemeral to supernumerary, purchasing them for the first time would remain the same; regular powers would be untouched entirely.
    7c95dbc25a4a9ae292cccb899a49a79b18529207e135ebccd89c0877d386ebea
    ALL HAIL THE MIGHTY GLOW CLOUD.
  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy
    I don't see a need for extra cost. The weights and costs for ascendant powers are prohibitive enough already.
  • MunsiaMunsia The Supreme Goddess
    Ssaliss said:
    I'd want to toss in an idea:
    • Normal demigods can have one ascendant power active.

    This would allow us non-sealholders and non-vernals access to at least a little of the power of Ascendants, while still keeping VAs/VDs/sealholders a cut above the rest.


    This would be like tossing out the entire Vernal skill idea, lol. What?
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    Arcanis said:



    Shaddus said:

    I say if you're a demigod and want ascendant powers, work your ass off and be an ascendant.

    You make it seem so easy, when becoming an ascendant is considered the epitome of achievements in the game.


    Personally, like Synkarin said, I wouldnt mind if they were all opened to all Demigods+, Frankly the weight alone would make Demigods pretty limited in what they could choose.


    If we're all special, nobody is.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Then again if everyone can destro, maybe they will stop bitching.
    image
  • ElanorwenElanorwen The White Falconess
    Shuyin said:
    Then again if everyone can destro, maybe they will stop bitching.
    Can destro. Still bitching.
    image

    Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    Elanorwen said:
    Shuyin said:
    Then again if everyone can destro, maybe they will stop bitching.
    Can destro. Still bitching.
    not sure why, you do just as much or more damage with staffcast

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • SilvanusSilvanus The Sparrowhawk
    If you are going to waste 50 weight on only one thing, it better be FearAura.
    2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
    2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Shhhhh
    image
  • MunsiaMunsia The Supreme Goddess
    Synkarin said:
    Elanorwen said:
    Shuyin said:
    Then again if everyone can destro, maybe they will stop bitching.
    Can destro. Still bitching.
    not sure why, you do just as much or more damage with staffcast
    Mages that use destro make me laugh at how stupid they are.
  • LeradLerad
    Shaddus said:
    If we're all special, nobody is.
    Not quite a bad thing.

  • ArcanisArcanis
    edited December 2014
    In truth, I wouldnt mind if the whole End-game concept was cleaned up a bit. Perhaps simply convert it that we received a skill (called Transcendence?) In it will be all the Domoth powers, but each requires activation by essence (and free space in points). We can add directly to this skill any generic abilities endgame players can have as well.


    Refresh Power could be one said ability
    Ascend to Havens another
    etc.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    Arcanis said:
    In truth, I wouldnt mind if the whole End-game concept was cleaned up a bit. Perhaps simply convert it that we received a skill (called Transcendence?) In it will be all the Domoth powers, but each requires activation by essence (and free space in points). We can add directly to this skill any generic abilities endgame players can have as well.


    Refresh Power could be one said ability
    Ascend to Havens another
    etc.
    No thanks

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited December 2014
     I think it would be cool if some of the lesser flavor-only powers were either automatically unlocked at a total essence pool, or had less weight to encourage using them over the ones that give real advantages or utility.
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