Since an upcoming Ascension is not too far off, I wished to bring up one of the problems (yes I know Ascension comes with many an issue as is) that I've seen with Ascension.
The Justice seal event is based completely upon the mechanics of Debating, which anyone can point out is based on a rock-paper-scissors concept which roughly translates to luck of the draw. It is one of the least interesting (If debatable least of all) of the ascension events and frankly cannot compare to the others. I feel that Justice got the short end of the stick here, and is a mockery of attaining a seal. Couldnt we replace it with a true event? One that requires skill and prowess of some function (Yes, debating does not require it)? Or at least the debating mechanics get some form of makeover.
If any have any suggestions for how to make this event actually mean something, please post below.
0
Comments
Justice should be a multiple debate/psychodrama/vengeance/unused game IMO
Need to inject some freshness into the yearly gankfest.
Otherwise I'm pretty happy with the current debating system, but that might be because it's something I'm actually good at.
I am not surprised to see your rejection of my suggestion, but I will clarify points of why debating is in fact -not- fine and why the other events do not simply work on system patterns.
- Nature requires clues to be solved for locations in the basin that one has to travel to in order to mark off their sheet. This requires not only experience in exploration but also brain power.
- War requires combat to be undertaken between groups, perhaps one of the most defining mechanics of lusternian gameplay. Combat has so many avenues and so many tactics one can employ, that it is a universal and self-sufficient concept to employ a seal over. If you have the skills, then you can get the seal.
- Death requires slaying creatures, and alot of them. This may seem like a pattern and rather static, but there is more to consider here. Any Death holder (and I rather wish Karlach was still active to attest to this) will mention the strategy that goes into it. The locations generally unvisited, the number of mobs in locations, respawn rates, strengths and weaknesses of creatures and how to expand on this, secret areas that may have tucked away quest mobs, endurance/willpower drain and regen, avoiding enemy locations so not to have friends of enemies pick you off, etc. etc.
- Harmony, the reflection of the Death event, is basically the same concept, but utilizing a passive mechanic. Again, certain variables will come into play here, including the attitudes of the mobs and if your race has any racial advantage over said attitude, such as trill with seduction.
- Life I love that it has its own unique mechanic not used in other lusternian events. One has to go around literally curing the sick, dependent on what they have. I actually wonder how this event will change when the cures are reduced to only 4.
- Beauty, perhaps one of my favorites, requires one to create (in text) an item of unique and beautiful design. It truly puts the best designers against each other.
- Knowledge actually requires the player himself to personally put in time to review history and game lore in order to achieve victory. It is basically like studying for an exam.
- Chaos is a hilarious event that lives up to its name, and has several variables to undertake in it. It draws in the mechanic of combat into it as well, leading to different strategies to employ.
All these events require some skill to them, whereas debating is mostly based on our triggers and perhaps 2-3 aliases, while standing in 1 room. I do believe the Justice event may be the fastest of the bunch. It needs something to make it on par with the others.
How can you even compare Justice to War? That's like comparing 2nd grader math to calculas.
Debating literally has 2 strategies one builds up on:
- What debate to use (choice of 3), based on which mindset they have (choice of 3)
- When to waste a turn to use a dramatic effect to make an attack type stronger.
This is strategy? Moreso, this is -not- luck? There is no way to tell what mindset your individual has, nor what attack they will use themselves and it quite literally comes to a draw: What you picked with what defense they used. Kind of seems like....oh rock-scissors-paper?
You define this as a Seal event? I would pity such a statement to degrade -this- as a fighting mechanic to encompass the biggest event drawer of lusternia.
You claim this thread as a "Arcanis hates something, so it must be changed"? I simply am pointing out a flaw in design, wherein 1 of the 9 events of Ascension is sorely lacking in flavor and flare to the other 8. I could however simply rebuttal your claim with an equally childish one, stating that your responses are simply another "I dont like this person, thus I will outright claim they are wrong".
What strategy can you even utilize. Longer word count?
Btw speaking as a 3 time war winner, the strategy to win isn't particularly complicated, we're just efficient.
Personally I'd like to see some changes in the event lineup for variety's sake. Swapping debates out for psychodrama or vengeance or something would accomplish that, but I don't think there's a strategic depth reason to do it. Psychodrama certainly wouldn't make it any less random, but it'd be something new.
Delphas rarely loses even to Elfen and Trill. Perhaps ``Strategy'' is not the right word, but it did take a of study to come up with the correct balance of debate-attack vs dramatics-afflict. Perhaps that was about as productive as counting buttons, but please don't take the thing Delphas is good at! He might even have a shot this year... unless everyone switches to faeling for the day, and both Skull isn't ascendant and Lion is maligned. *grumble*
"But Svana! Debating is rock-paper-scissors! It's a guessing game!"
-
I don't think all challenges are created equal, beauty is extremely subjective for example and nature can come down to who has the most ways to access secret areas in a hurry, but Justice definitely gives everyone a fighting chance to be competitive without being a super artied influencer/hunter or a pk god. I'm with Delphas, don't take it away from me!
-
Unfortunately not everyone has a fighting chance. That's beauty, life, and chaos
Pejat won because he found the chink in Chade's attitudes during their debate and capitalised on it, while also being probably 25 cha. He prepared for that, just like he prepared for Harmony with @Talan.
Remember that time in Stewartsville not too long ago when @Kelly fought for the village leader against basically everyone southside (as a paladin) while also holding the influence, and ended up winning the village by convincing her? That's not luck bud.
EDIT:
Do I need to dig up Talan's hilarious ass post? I will dig for it. Just a sec.
EDIT 2:
Lol, it's even in reference to a post of yours Malarious. http://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/comment/35001/#Comment_35001
EDIT 3:
I won't deny that Justice belongs to the bard specs, particularly warbling trill and shadowsinger faeling. But anyone can be just -aa- faeling. It's a Seal contest. You try going faeling and running in there without a debate strategy and let me know how that works out for you. But the people that are in it to win it will bulldoze over you.
Signature!
Frankly I found the mechanic a bore, but if people like it, then who am I to judge? I simply found that a flavorless event could definitely use some spicing up, as it was quite literally the quickest and least exciting of the events.
And herein lies a crucial problem with that mindset of yours and a few others that squat around the forums, you seem to be under the consensus that negative feedback based on the individual rather than the suggestion is apparently a 'thing'. I have been witnessing a lot lately how somehow the OOC and IC relations in the game are becoming rather blurred and things are being carried between. My post was, if anything, quite a logical statement and based on the facts. Justice -is- the quickest and least competitive event, and does rely on an old 'fighting' mechanic that uses quite the simple system (debate (pun intended) on this if you wish).
I come up with relevant topics and ideas all the time, but they wont always hit home. I attempt to bring up cases of mechanics I see could use some sprucing up to make it more fun and more engaging. Some off the top of my head:
- Making Flares more accessible to players without purchased bixes and thus least dependent on individuals with a bix or the relevant skills (flashpoints) to get to said bubble. Additionally, making flares more engaging in combat mechanics by allowing face to face initiations rather than just ship turrets.
- Making mob villages have more than one accessible politics leader, especially not a single leader that requires a quest to resurrect first, thus creating a paradox of being unable to be unenemied.
- Making the presents system less clunky and have more balanced percentages in gifts, thus reducing the current rather large outcome of commodities and gold all the time and possibly making it more fun to use.
If I have an idea to try and make this game more fair and engaging, then yes I will suggest it. I know some old-time players like the idea of "it's fine as is", but nothing is perfect and I personally will attempt to point out flaws that can be ironed out. People can read them and give commentary if they like, but I basically will try to get it out there.