Oh, I always assumed that the UV was where they went. I've been waiting for ages for us to find a bull-worshipping drow village down there.
I was thinking that it could be this cool circle where maybe the Bull worshippers went down and taught the Kephera (or maybe just left an impression on Keph before they splintered?), then the Kephera added to those teachings with Harmony and Psymet, which they then gave to Serenwilde, which probably made them even more powerful now that the users have a connection to Mother.
Though, if true, could that mean that Shofangi were the starting point for Kepheran martial arts? The followers of Bull taught the Kephera their style of martial arts and in turn the Kephera went on to develop a variety of different styles?(somehow creating lasers for hallifax of course)
I think it's further evidence that kata is a fundamental property of the universe and several different populations of monks arrived at an understanding of it independent of each other.
I think it's further evidence that kata is a fundamental property of the universe and several different populations of monks arrived at an understanding of it independent of each other.
That's another possible take on it, which is pretty cool too.
I guess my brain it trying to assemble logic from the bits and pieces that have been discussed here.
There's also halfway possibilities, like the followers of Bull met the Kephera and taught them about Bull, who then created a style based on that.
I guess the thing that appeals to me most is this attitude that Serenwilde has about being "First".
Even though you can't really prove it (unless there has been releases to say so), Serenwilde seemed to really latch onto the idea that they were the First forest, that the Moondancers and the Hartstone were the First of their respective archetypes guilds.
They kinda become lost teachings, an art that was part of Serenwilde that we lost and that has been returned to us because of (something the Kepheran players will like) a connection to the Kephera that stretches back into history, back before anyone on the surface knew who they were.
The Shofangi in turn could become a reminder to us of what can come of helping outsiders?
Though, thinking about it @Daraius the arts have been developed by three groups as far as I can remember. (Tosha, Kephera, Illithoid) Would it have as much of an impact on your thoughts if the Kepheran school was influenced by a school that at one point was part of Serenwilde?
Keeping in mind that I'm just going off website histories and events posts, my thinking is that the kephera came up with their kata and harmony on their own as a means of containing the unsharded butt of Illith, and that could have happened as far back as the Elder Wars when Illith was first cut in half and imprisoned. It's confirmed that the loboshigaru received their kata from Tosha during the Vernal Wars, though no word yet on whether he got it from somewhere else. I also feel like the Undervault, Illith, and the kephera had no contact whatsoever with the surface throughout history until the modern age (events post 94, specifically), but I probably maintain this thinking to support my independent katas theory.
What if the Admin are trolling us, and there's a design doc out there in the Havens saying 'So, the Tosha monks are going to send teachers to Hallifax and Gaudiguch in 450, and their racial specs will be called Akitaku Loboshigaru, who practice Aikido.'
I don't know, though it could also be why Bull sent his followers down there?
It could also provide a reason for well... why these particular styles are based on things from the surface that the kephera might not have actually ever encountered before.
1. It only has to be developed in the UV once. Assuming its development wasn't a huge enough advantage to immediately win the war (and it can't be, or else both sides would need to develop it at the same time to keep things as they are now, which is unlikely) then the other side could have reverse engineered it through spying or exposure. If that is the case, my money would be on Kephera inventing it based on their racial memory of Keph's meditations pretty early on, and the Illithoid stealing it. They got kata by observing, copying, and then developing their own styles from there, but didn't get harmony because they couldn't access Kepheran racial memories to access the mantras directly and couldn't spy well enough to learn them that way. Stealth developed naturally among the Illithoid, possibly being the thing that allowed them to observe well enough to get kata from their enemies.
2. Tosha probably didn't get kata directly for the UV. I really want it to have evolved independently from lobo traditions because vassal packs, but beyond me just wanting it it does seem unlikely that he could have been in contact with the UV at all.
3. 2 means that Toshan monks probably don't have harmony. I think they do have mantra type things, though. Probably a different set.
4. Or, my absolute favorite headcanon that probably didn't happen. Tosha was never in contact with the UV, but Mugwumpois did record some of Keph's thoughts in the Elder Wars. What if Tosha found and read those records and used that to develop lobo martial arts into full kata? That would explain the similarities without having actual contact. They both derive from the same information, but the two groups accessed it separately. This would allow Toshan and Kepheran harmony meditation to work the same way, too, invalidating point 3.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
Eh, kata is just general martial arts. I doubt it was developed exclusively by the Kephara or the Illithoids. Monastic orders like Tosha probably came up with it on their own as well. An argument can be made for Illithoid stealing tech from the keph, sure, that's something perfectly logical, but it's just as possible they developed it on their own.
Now, the different kata specs of the different guilds, those would come from different sources. I'm not sure about the harmony monks, but the ninja spec was developed by the illithoid, while the nekotai spec was taught by Scorpion.
Is kata general martial arts, though? I don't fully understand the whole ka energy thing, but that seems like a fairly specific power source, especially given that you need kata to do whatever magic tattooing requires. You could still have fully independent development in multiple populations with that, as long as ka energy is a fundamental property of the universe. But if lobo kata is the same as UV kata, I'd be inclined to look for a shared point of origin even if they're all mundane. The odds of everyone with martial arts developing identical kata without a shared point of origin is really low.
Fully agree that weapon specs would be later developments from wherever. In Seren's case it could easily be an old fighting style that got modified by the Kephera, and lobos would presumably have their own traditional weapons.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
Eh, kata is just general martial arts. I doubt it was developed exclusively by the Kephara or the Illithoids. Monastic orders like Tosha probably came up with it on their own as well.
Well HELP KATA says it was "first developed and mastered in the Undervault by the kephera and illithoid." So that's where the whole "undervault exclusive" thing is coming from, but it seems like we all want to believe that's not the whole truth.
As for illithoid stealing kepheran kata, I think that's how I pictured it too. The kephera were a race, presumably practicing their kata, long before the illithoid, and Illith only sharded a decade or so before the two races brought their war to the surface. I'm not sure I can buy the illithoid developing their own martial arts in the ten years between the sharding and events post 64.
But uh... we're kind of far afield of shofangi lore now so I'll stop.
Maybe KATA in this sense pertains to the kata utilised by players alone, and does not cover the kata/martial arts used by Tosha and what not.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Eh, kata is just general martial arts. I doubt it was developed exclusively by the Kephara or the Illithoids. Monastic orders like Tosha probably came up with it on their own as well.
Well HELP KATA says it was "first developed and mastered in the Undervault by the kephera and illithoid." So that's where the whole "undervault exclusive" thing is coming from, but it seems like we all want to believe that's not the whole truth.
As for illithoid stealing kepheran kata, I think that's how I pictured it too. The kephera were a race, presumably practicing their kata, long before the illithoid, and Illith only sharded a decade or so before the two races brought their war to the surface. I'm not sure I can buy the illithoid developing their own martial arts in the ten years between the sharding and events post 64.
But uh... we're kind of far afield of shofangi lore now so I'll stop.
Well, while yeah we're heading away from Shofangi stuff. It's a Serenwilde guild, it's history is always going to have a massive impact on it.
I think @Azus mentioned to me in another discussion once that some of the undervault timelines and the like don't always sync up. So some things seem really old when other events make it seem like everything is younger than that.
It could also be that these mentions are actually subtle "retcons" to try to make things make more sense?
Don't the Nekotai claim that Scorpion taught kata to the illithoid?
Nekotai don't claim that, per se.
Illithoid had their own version of kata (possibly stolen from kepherans? Unknown). However, it was determined that this would not work for the Glomdoring monks for some reason. They traded a "bubble of obscurity" to Scorpion, and in exchange they were taught a form of Scorpion kata. The illithoid then conveyed that teaching to the Glomdoring.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Last month, the Shofangi received an artifact that I had purchased and designed two (real-life) years ago. It was intended to affirm the guild's kepheran roots, renew our friendship with the kephera and provide a sturdy platform from which to launch deep into Seren spirit cults and clans, melding a rich background of kepheran thought with an equally rich Seren identity - a keystone for three and a half very important years of painstaking back and forth between politics, metagaming, roleplay and development, in a guild in which very little lore had been developed (or at least, preserved) for eight (also real-life) years.
I've been blindsided by the revelation that, despite all the cultural artefacts and kepheran racial history, Spirit Bull actually founded the Shofangi as the Cult of Bull in ancient Serenwilde, and brought monk culture to the kephera, reducing the them and their version of the Cult to exactly the 'odd sort of warriors' that I have spent all this time trying to transcend. Their meditations, values and martial arts are, at best, simply deviations from those that Bull's Moonblades taught them.
While I'm glad that Somebody Important is sparing a thought for the Shofangi after all these years, I'm still very disappointed that my own artifact, was used to invalidate my work, and that the relevant changes to my design were made without informing me, particularly since they were changed to radically. It was a huge kick in the teeth.
Sounds like what happened to the nekotai where I heard they based their RP on the scorpion caverns and what the NPCs there said, and then it was changed to where the NPCs started calling glom nekotai fakes/defectors/whatever and blew up a lot of their rp they'd been establishng.
1
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Let me tell you about the Serenguard quest we designed and bought...
One of the things guild leaders have to accept is that when we purchase something BIG, something important, it is entirely up to admin review. They often have other ideas that we aren't aware of, and they WILL change our ideas to fit the framework they already have in mind. I know, it sucks--believe me, it happened to me and nearly killed my guild--but it's the way it is. But they're the ones in charge of what is and what isn't lore, so they have the right to do that.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Comments
o Have a racial language, merian.
You can speak the following languages:
The common tongue
Dwarven
Elfen
Merian
Taurian
Lucidian
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
1. It only has to be developed in the UV once. Assuming its development wasn't a huge enough advantage to immediately win the war (and it can't be, or else both sides would need to develop it at the same time to keep things as they are now, which is unlikely) then the other side could have reverse engineered it through spying or exposure. If that is the case, my money would be on Kephera inventing it based on their racial memory of Keph's meditations pretty early on, and the Illithoid stealing it. They got kata by observing, copying, and then developing their own styles from there, but didn't get harmony because they couldn't access Kepheran racial memories to access the mantras directly and couldn't spy well enough to learn them that way. Stealth developed naturally among the Illithoid, possibly being the thing that allowed them to observe well enough to get kata from their enemies.
2. Tosha probably didn't get kata directly for the UV. I really want it to have evolved independently from lobo traditions because vassal packs, but beyond me just wanting it it does seem unlikely that he could have been in contact with the UV at all.
3. 2 means that Toshan monks probably don't have harmony. I think they do have mantra type things, though. Probably a different set.
4. Or, my absolute favorite headcanon that probably didn't happen. Tosha was never in contact with the UV, but Mugwumpois did record some of Keph's thoughts in the Elder Wars. What if Tosha found and read those records and used that to develop lobo martial arts into full kata? That would explain the similarities without having actual contact. They both derive from the same information, but the two groups accessed it separately. This would allow Toshan and Kepheran harmony meditation to work the same way, too, invalidating point 3.
Fully agree that weapon specs would be later developments from wherever. In Seren's case it could easily be an old fighting style that got modified by the Kephera, and lobos would presumably have their own traditional weapons.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Illithoid had their own version of kata (possibly stolen from kepherans? Unknown). However, it was determined that this would not work for the Glomdoring monks for some reason. They traded a "bubble of obscurity" to Scorpion, and in exchange they were taught a form of Scorpion kata. The illithoid then conveyed that teaching to the Glomdoring.
There was an entire event based around this.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
I've been blindsided by the revelation that, despite all the cultural artefacts and kepheran racial history, Spirit Bull actually founded the Shofangi as the Cult of Bull in ancient Serenwilde, and brought monk culture to the kephera, reducing the them and their version of the Cult to exactly the 'odd sort of warriors' that I have spent all this time trying to transcend. Their meditations, values and martial arts are, at best, simply deviations from those that Bull's Moonblades taught them.
While I'm glad that Somebody Important is sparing a thought for the Shofangi after all these years, I'm still very disappointed that my own artifact, was used to invalidate my work, and that the relevant changes to my design were made without informing me, particularly since they were changed to radically. It was a huge kick in the teeth.
One of the things guild leaders have to accept is that when we purchase something BIG, something important, it is entirely up to admin review. They often have other ideas that we aren't aware of, and they WILL change our ideas to fit the framework they already have in mind. I know, it sucks--believe me, it happened to me and nearly killed my guild--but it's the way it is. But they're the ones in charge of what is and what isn't lore, so they have the right to do that.