Ascension 2015

Saesh · January 2015

Lavinya said:

Saesh said:

Inevitably, but ego regen has been eliminated across the board for this competition for reasons noted. That is why the hell you can't Penumbra.

I believe that argument has already occurred in previous years, actually.

edit: That's the thing about balance. Someone has to make the objective decision and, by definition in this context, that means some will lose something and some will gain something. Some people don't like losing things, and that's fine, but they aren't honestly interested in balance. The decision still has to be made in the end.

This is the statement that really caused me the most confusion, looking back. Because now we have a statement saying ego regen AND activated skills are fine if they're on the allowed list. So it's not an elimination of ego regen across the board.

Saesh may continue to infer that I am an idiot (which I still find highly rude and unprofessional coming from someone representing the admin, you want us to respect you, you should also use the same courtesy in your speech. I'm extremely unhappy about it and found it unwarranted. You didn't see me slinging insults at the admin) but I am genuinely confused by the seeming contradictions.

SO. Trying to make sense of this. Blanket statements don't seem to work here.

According to the rules, preparatory buffs are allowed. Would that include presetting Princess tarot? It's not a lot but beseeching princess will heal some ego also. Does that count as an activated ability?

Also, thankyou for the clarification re tinkered items.

Ego regeneration when it comes to skills is not allowed. I misspoke with that particular sentence. As was explained, ego regeneration is not allowed unless it falls under one of the "allowed" categories.

Princess tarot must be activated mid debate to have any benefit, so it is not allowed.

You opened this conversation accusing me of scolding, "wagging my finger," and misrepresenting my explanation, then stating I was being vague for answering your question about the rules but openly stating I was unable to answer your question about declaration. I admit being repeatedly accused of doing things I was not doing while I was attempting to be helpful put me on a defensive footing when it should not have, and for that and my subsequent tone which was unwarranted regardless of my reasoning, I do apologize. Your line of questioning was a valid one, and you my unconditional apology for my reaction.

Arcanis · January 2015

With ascension only 3 days away, can we get tweets back now please?

Synkarin · January 2015

Only if people don't flip their lids* when their names are tagged!

Shuyin · January 2015

We'll tbh that's why it got closed to begin with, I don't know why you'd flag someone telling the truth, even if it's a bit abrasive

Arcanis · January 2015

annnd there goes any chance of it being opened.

Synkarin · January 2015

There, I removed the offending word and replaced it with a more vanilla one, feel free to unflag now as the post doesn't break any forums rules.

Shuyin · January 2015

Real talk though, I think a place to vent frustrations would be better instead of having it leak into other threads.

Like say, the ascension thread

Maligorn · January 2015

The annoying thing is it's adults policing adults for behavior. I mean, come on. We all know how to act.

I'd wager admin are just afraid that our forum spats are going to be read by prospective newbies and seen as a contentious place. But I would see a serious passion whenever people gripe about x side this and y side that.

Crumkane · January 2015

The forums should be a place for polite discussion among players on topics relevant to them (whether rants, raves, tweets, or just idle chatter). Threads that are closed are usually done so because of the lack of politeness involved in them, resulting usually in posts with an inherently negative connotation to be closed first (see: Rants).

While a small part of the reasoning behind this is to put on good face for prospective players, part of it is also to maintain a level of respect within the player base. While I do not regulate the threads, nor jail people, I do read the forums, and we (the Admin) do have discussions (the Oneiroi are usually the ones responsible for jailing/closing/etc. when things reach critical levels).

As a community, we should know when we've gone beyond a harmless argument and into attacking a person, and it is usually this extreme that results in threads being closed. If we all could maintain a level of respect for each other, even inherently negative threads like Rants would be possible, as you would argue on topics rather than attacking someone personally.

Now, as for if Tweets is going to be open again, that is up to the Oneiroi, but I guarantee you they are monitoring other threads to see how we all are interacting with one another.

Be respectful is the best advice I can give.

Shaddus · January 2015

Maybe we just need to have a non-policed, hidden area of the forum for people over a certain forumrank.

Arcanis · January 2015

Crumkane said:

As a community, we should know when we've gone beyond a harmless argument and into attacking a person, and it is usually this extreme that results in threads being closed. If we all could maintain a level of respect for each other, even inherently negative threads like Rants would be possible, as you would argue on topics rather than attacking someone personally.

This. I do wish certain individuals that seem to have some sort of blindeye to harassment, would understand when they are obviously overstepping bounds in attempts to purposely get a rise out of players.

Oneiroi · January 2015

Back on the topic of Ascension: Any comments, concerns, questions about War? The plan is to run it the same as last year, but I know it's one of those challenges where's there's always questions of "Is X allowed?".

Arcanis · January 2015

Oneiroi said:

Back on the topic of Ascension: Any comments, concerns, questions about War? The plan is to run it the same as last year, but I know it's one of those challenges where's there's always questions of "Is X allowed?".

Hmm, well technically, if I recall correctly, ascended players are not allowed to compete in other challenges such as Knowledge and Justice, so I suppose it should be the same for war.

Elanorwen · January 2015

Arcanis said:

Oneiroi said:

Back on the topic of Ascension: Any comments, concerns, questions about War? The plan is to run it the same as last year, but I know it's one of those challenges where's there's always questions of "Is X allowed?".

Hmm, well technically, if I recall correctly, ascended players are not allowed to compete in other challenges such as Knowledge and Justice, so I suppose it should be the same for war.

They are allowed to compete in War. They just can't win a seal.

Lerad · January 2015

Arcanis said:
Hmm, well technically, if I recall correctly, ascended players are not allowed to compete in other challenges such as Knowledge and Justice, so I suppose it should be the same for war.

... What?

True Ascended players are not allowed to participate in other Challenges because they don't need to have another seal. Every year's ascension's seals need to be held by 9 candidates who can be ascended. Participating in war, however, won't give them a seal even if they win, as long as they have a non TA in the team. Why shouldn't they be allowed to participate? This isn't a "to be fair and equal" kind of thing. This is purely logistical: every player should be allowed to participate in all challenges. The only reason TAs can't do so in some are because they need a non TA to hold a seal. Therefore, the only war team that won't be allowed to participate would be a team that has 3 TAs.

Shuyin · January 2015

Man, war is my only joy in ascension aside from grief. Don't take that from me too

Aerotan · January 2015

Will the War challenge be done with the Overhaul shells/

Elanorwen · January 2015

Aerotan said:

Will the War challenge be done with the Overhaul shells/

You mean the 4 bards that were supposed to be overhaul shells? That's all that's available for overhaul shells, mind.... 4 bards.

While I'm not an admin, I'm going to say this. The answer is no.

Aerotan · January 2015

Elanorwen said:

Aerotan said:

Will the War challenge be done with the Overhaul shells/

You mean the 4 bards that were supposed to be overhaul shells? That's all that's available for overhaul shells, mind.... 4 bards.

While I'm not an admin, I'm going to say this. The answer is no.

Only having 1 viable shell allowed never stopped Super Smash Bros. Melee from being huge. Hugely popular, too. Point taken, though.

Shuyin · January 2015

Fox falco puff peach marth sheik are all viable at top tier. I follow pro smash pretty religiously!

The current system works for war as far as I am concerned. We get to be reprehensible again, haw haw.

Daraius · January 2015

Fox for TA 2015!!

Kaimanahi · January 2015

Fox... McCloud? B-)

Shuyin · January 2015

Can't let you do that, starfox.

Neos · January 2015

That's Star Princess Fox to you.

Arcanis · January 2015

Lerad said:

Arcanis said:
Hmm, well technically, if I recall correctly, ascended players are not allowed to compete in other challenges such as Knowledge and Justice, so I suppose it should be the same for war.
... What?

True Ascended players are not allowed to participate in other Challenges because they don't need to have another seal.

...ooookay, so basically the same thing I said, just with the reasoning behind the 'why'..

Lerad said:

Arcanis said:
Hmm, well technically, if I recall correctly, ascended players are not allowed to compete in other challenges such as Knowledge and Justice, so I suppose it should be the same for war.
This isn't a "to be fair and equal" kind of thing. This is purely logistical: every player should be allowed to participate in all challenges. The only reason TAs can't do so in some are because they need a non TA to hold a seal. Therefore, the only war team that won't be allowed to participate would be a team that has 3 TAs.

While the concept to allow all to have a good time is a resounding common mission for all games, it should also be considered that these players have already basically won this annual contest and are one of the few that have received the special perks for it. I think it is enough of a fair trade to ask them to not compete in the other competitions as to allow other players a chance to also win as they have. Should non-ascended players have to face up against ascended ones in war? Did those same ascended players have to have such a difficulty? Surely not.

Besides, they are still allowed to compete in the most important part: The Finale. I dont see the relevance of you insisting ascended be allowed to fight in war, if anything it seems unfair to other aspiring players.

Steingrim · January 2015

Since the topic is War. How about not rescheduling it because the turn out is not liked?

Shuyin · January 2015

Well considering VA's have exactly the same powers as TA's and they allowed to participate, I don't think there will be much difference.

I definitely have a horse in this race since War is the only event I can "officially" join, so I don't see why I can't be allowed to help a teammate get a seal in this manner. Is it really so much different than the 100 other ways I can personally help someone win other events without actually joining it? I can still gank people in Death, debate in Harmony, lead people in Nature, skype answers in Knowledge, group up in Chaos, etc.

Lerad · January 2015

Arcanis said:

Lerad said:
True Ascended players are not allowed to participate in other Challenges because they don't need to have another seal.

...ooookay, so basically the same thing I said, just with the reasoning behind the 'why'..

No, it's not the same thing you said. You said this:

Arcanis said:

Hmm, well technically, if I recall correctly, ascended players are not allowed to compete in other challenges such as Knowledge and Justice, so I suppose it should be the same for war.

In other words: "They can't participate in Knowledge and Justice, so they should not be able to do so for War." This is quite clear, almost verbatim, unless my reading comprehension is somehow amiss, which I doubt. The only reasoning in what you said, implied or explicit was that "it should be the same". What I said was that "they don't need to have another seal" for Justice and Knowledge, and that it's fine if they participate in War because they won't get the seal even if they win. What we both said are definitely not the "same thing".

Arcanis said:

While the concept to allow all to have a good time is a resounding common mission for all games, it should also be considered that these players have already basically won this annual contest and are one of the few that have received the special perks for it. I think it is enough of a fair trade to ask them to not compete in the other competitions as to allow other players a chance to also win as they have. Should non-ascended players have to face up against ascended ones in war? Did those same ascended players have to have such a difficulty? Surely not.

Besides, they are still allowed to compete in the most important part: The Finale. I dont see the relevance of you insisting ascended be allowed to fight in war, if anything it seems unfair to other aspiring players.

If the concept to allow all to have a good time is a "resounding common mission" for all games, then why don't you consider the fact that these players are already being penalized by not being able to join 8 out of 9 of the competitions just because they won the annual contest once before? Why are you then trying to take even the last one away? Why are you only considering those who have to "face them" in 1 out of the 9 competitions? Are ascended players any less a player, any less entitled to fun just because they've won once already?

Secondly, the same ascended players most certainly did have to face ascended players when they were trying for War in all the previous years, with the exception of the first year (and maybe the second, perhaps) and if anything is unfair, it would be to these players who won despite having to face their own ascended opponents if we suddenly make it so that all future aspiring players no longer have to.

Akyaevin · January 2015

Lerad said:

Arcanis said:
Hmm, well technically, if I recall correctly, ascended players are not allowed to compete in other challenges such as Knowledge and Justice, so I suppose it should be the same for war.
... What?

True Ascended players are not allowed to participate in other Challenges because they don't need to have another seal.

Except TAs are forbidden from competing at all, not simply from taking a seal. We can't win credits either - except in War.

Lerad · January 2015

Yeah, that's a side effect of not letting you compete because they don't want you to win, accidentally or otherwise, and get a seal. And apparently, in the one competition you can take part, win and not run the risk of grabbing a seal away from someone who isn't a TA, you "should not" take part just because. Mmhmm. I don't know about you, but if I were a TA, I won't be very happy about such a change going in.

Ascension 2015

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