Breaking into cliques

Riluna

Lusternia is about its people. It doesn't get any more fundamental than that. But it can be hard for a new person to break into the well and long established cliques that exist in this game, when they are just starting out.

So how would you suggest a new player tries to do that? IMHO, that's what will make or break this game.

Disagree or agree as you will, even if you don't, all thoughts are appropriate to this thread. In my experience, it's cliques, but if you have a differing view, it's also helpful. Do share!

Lerad

I think the effort has to be made from inside the clique. It's understandable that a clique, sometimes by definition alone, may not want to do so, but ultimately, it is advantageous for them as well as for their org (and more abstractly, the game) in general. How much the people who are within said cliques see it that way varies, of course, and what kinds of actions it translates to changes correspondingly as well.

Vivet

It's all about balance and visibility. If you have less play time, you probably won't be noticed. Decreased playtime would probably be the single biggest obstacle, more so if you're online when few others are. If no one is noticing what you are doing for your org, there's no way for anyone to decide they want you in. On that note, in "modern Lusternia", focusing more on helping your alliance on the whole may garner better results than just focusing on your org specifically. Don't be afraid to ask questions to reveal your relevant interests, too - and to act on the answers you get to show you are processing it. The people who might seem the most unapproachable might end up being the most willing to help (though because they're so used to being unapproachable, they're AFK unless their activity of choice is currently in action, so patience is great too).

But to that end, what Lerad has said is very true. Communication is always a two-way street, and social circles sometimes get slack with looking for new people to support. Occasionally taking time to reflect on whether they're doing enough, to that end, and then considering possible new options not only helps out the new folks, but helps keep that particular circle healthy too.

Riluna

Is there anything new people can do themselves or is it entirely up to the preexisting cliques?

Xenthos

@Salome bought Glomdoring a clan in which basically everyone can join and allows for OOC discussion; I think it was her attempt to try to work around the clique thing and get more people talking to each other / keeping people from feeling left out. I personally only really talk there to answer questions about game mechanics, but people seem to be taking to it.  Harder to have an exclusive clique if everyone is invited.

Xenthos

@Salome bought Glomdoring a clan in which basically everyone can join and allows for OOC discussion; I think it was her attempt to try to work around the clique thing and get more people talking to each other / keeping people from feeling left out. I personally only really talk there to answer questions about game mechanics, but people seem to be taking to it.  Harder to have an exclusive clique if everyone is invited.

Riluna

@Salome doesn't like me, from the one interaction I've had with her.

Glom is pretty great about this kind of thing, actually, but I'm asking more about Lusty in general.

Tynghall

Cliques are weird, man. A very small portion of the playerbase more or less decides the outcome for most things (which actually is a very accurate portrayal of modern politics). This can be good or bad, depending on circumstance.

Like @Vivet said, one of the most important things for breaking into a clique is playtime. Once you're logging hours, it's easier to see you're around. Stack that with a wallet to buy some credits so you can tri-trans and start getting involved in combat. Hours + Combat is the easiest way to make a breakthrough. 

From what I've normally seen high-tier RP is not required, but often a very definite perk, and any clique will almost always include some of the org's lead RP-ers. So, the alternative path would be consistent, high-quality RP (probably heavily involved in an order too), and time logged.

This is on top of the individual OOC personalities that drive the characters, and whether or not they even like your character and you on an OOC level.

Riluna

It really is combat that defines who is important or worthy of attention, then?

Demartel

You don't need to be involved in combat to be involved in Lusternia.
Combatants are actually the vocal minority, though there is some cross over with people who would rather just RP will come "defend".
You don't need a fat wallet.
You don't need tri-trans.

You just need to not be introverted.

Talk to people, talk to everyone, talk to people you would not otherwise talk to. You might be surprised in finding out that the person next to you can actually RP and is just as nervous about talking to people and getting involved in RP as you are.

Edit:: Just to point out, someone who likes combat and seeks out PK does not mean they won't RP. I have met some great RPers that you would think are just in the PK circle. That being said, your RP and someone elses RP may come at different levels. There are people who barely stay "in character" and people who have involved back stories. It all depends on if you are willing to take some good with the bad, in your perspective of RP.

Riluna

Would you vote for that person for Vernal Ascendant, @Demartel?

Xenthos

I can see myself doing so, because I actually have done so. I vote for Vernal Ascendant based on how I feel the person is tied to the organization, not based on how they fight. Participation is good, but being a paragon of PvP is unimportant to me. I would rather have someone who represents Glomdoring as VA than someone who just murders things.

Tynghall

As I said, strong, consistent RP is also a path. Individuals like Sthai come to mind.

Please note that these are my personal experiences and interpretations, and they in no way summarize all of the experiences other individuals may have had with cliques existent in Lusternia past, present, or future.

Demartel

Riluna said:

Would you vote for that person for Vernal Ascendant, @Demartel?

I think you are comparing Apples and Oranges now.

From what I know of Vernal Ascendant it could certainly be held by someone who is "RP" only, but none of what a Vernal Ascendant is other than the name alone gives power to RP. It is, by the games design, meant for combat. More Demigod powers, none of which are really RP-centric, the expectation to defend the Org you are in because of the availability of those powers, and the expectation to hold Domoths.

Edit:: You were, however, asking about cliques, and Vernal Ascendant ~= clique. You can be in any clique without being a Vernal Ascendant. I am not a V.A and I am in the clique of I rp with those who rp with me and I fight when needed and I die alot. It's my own special clique of let's not give a drat about cliques and just play the game. I am not saying this to poo-poo your thoughts on the matter, just saying that is how I enjoy the game.

Enyalida

As a note, Serenwilde has a clan along the lines of the Glomdoring OOC clan, it just goes totally unused and few people joined. 

Riluna

At the risk of being nostalgic again, once it wasn't apples and oranges.

If somebody was great at RP, and at nothing else in this game, would people still vote for that person as VA?

VA is a popularity contest, which is why the question is still relevant. ( disagree with me as you will )

Spread your opinions wide, people. I want to hear them.

Sylandra

I try to be chatty and warm with people I don't know so well. Hallifax has an unfortunate stigma from eons past of being a snob fest so I tend to effusive levels of niceness to counter it. I know whenever I attempt to alt elsewhere people respond well to niceness, inquiry, politeness, and eagerness to succeed. So my advice is be open and show your willingness to add to the org; people will remember and want to encourage it in you.

Edit: on further reflection the thing that turns me off on someone the most is being rude. Or condescending. Particularly when a new person embodies these traits and hasn't achieved anything yet to warrant some respect.

Demartel

I am sure, though I cannot be 100% on the matter, that at least 1 V.A was ascended not because they fight, but because they RP or embody the Org they are in.

Again, though, Clique ~= V.A.

Yes, you are quite right it is a popularity contest, a popularity contest that everyone, including the cliqueless, the RPers, get to vote in. If they are voting in the person that they best feel should be V.A then that is not due to a clique mentality. It is due to the nature of the beast and knowing what V.A is about.

As I said, Combatants are a vocal minority. This can easily be seen by the 60 people online but only 18 people in Etherglom fighting. (just a toss out of numbers). If the quite majority doesn't use their voice to raise a Vernal that reflects what they are about then that is on them and has nothing to do with who is more popular.

Sylandra

(As a note "How to be VA" would be a very different manual than "How to join an RP Clique.")

Riluna

Demartel said:

I am sure, though I cannot be 100% on the matter, that at least 1 V.A was ascended not because they fight, but because they RP or embody the Org they are in.

Again, though, Clique ~= V.A.

Yes, you are quite right it is a popularity contest, a popularity contest that everyone, including the cliqueless, the RPers, get to vote in. If they are voting in the person that they best feel should be V.A then that is not due to a clique mentality. It is due to the nature of the beast and knowing what V.A is about.

As I said, Combatants are a vocal minority. This can easily be seen by the 60 people online but only 18 people in Etherglom fighting. (just a toss out of numbers). If the quite majority doesn't use their voice to raise a Vernal that reflects what they are about then that is on them and has nothing to do with who is more popular.

I'm trying to spread the question wider intentionally. Do you feel like that's a goal -YOU- can achieve?

Riluna

Sylandra said:

(As a note "How to be VA" would be a very different manual than "How to join an RP Clique.")

True. And it's not the question of the thread, though it might perhaps be an effective one? I'm not sure yet. Take the thread where you will.

Demartel

Do I feel I can be V.A?

I won't lie. Being a V.A is something I would love to be, but I am recent to the game I RP with a select few and there are others that have been around longer that would likely get it before me, and I have no problems with that.

I am also not in any clique, other than the needed combat clans for the North Alliance and Serenwilde. I rarely talk to anyone on an OOC level unless I feel guilty and I need to let them know why I am suddenly running away from them to hide in a manse and afk, or why I cannot help with a situation.

I don't view myself as "popular' I view myself as visible, because I make myself visible.

Riluna

I'm becoming vague, as I tend to do, and those who know me can attest to.

A more specific question: is it possible to "succeed" (however you yourself define Lusternian success) doing whatever you want? Or do you have to be a combatant? Does RP even have a place in this game?

EDIT Do you have to be a fighter to be wanted?

Falaeron

Hallifax also has an all-inclusive OOC clan. It definitely made it a lot easier for me to get to know many of the mechanics of the game.

Tarkenton

I'm fairly certain I ended up getting VA due to newbie power leveling hunts, showing up to combat stuff whenever I was online, and with RPing with the RP crowd. Even those of us that love a good fight for good fight's sake do enjoy RP, if you can be a fairly well rounded individual that contributes at different levels in your org, it's very possible to gain it. It doesn't hurt that my competition was Salome, who was the CL at the time (and CLs historically have a very, very tough time getting elected VA. Which sucks, she would've been a better one than me AND still in Glom) and Aurik, who disappeared halfway through the election if I am remembering correctly. But I played the game, I courted votes, and I was up front about "Hey, honest, the reason I'm taking you three lowbies hunting is because I want you to have a favorable opinion of me when it comes time for the VA vote. You don't have to vote for me, I'll take you hunting regardless, but I'd appreciate it if you'd consider it."

And then, of course, I threw it all away to go hang with Fire Jesus. Do I think a pure RPer non-com can get VA? Sure, if they can play the political game. But why? The powers are wasted on them. If your org is swimming in TAs, and you don't need the extras in a fight that a VA can provide, then sure, go for it. But imbuing a non-fighter with VA is a waste.

Sylandra

I am a pitiful combatant and full time RPer. People haven't shunned me yet and I'm still having fun. I don't expect VA or TA because the people who earn that play a different sort of game than I do, and the rewards of both better suit their needs and interests. Which is fine by me. Domoths sound dull AF.

Yehn

...just a quick $.02 on the original question...

...it's definitely a pretty social game, and us being social creatures, social circles (= cliques) of course form. But a lot of 'cliques', I think, aren't intentionally that way (in the negative sense of the word..). Like someone else said before... I think a good thing is to ask questions... my personal experience is that the people that seem most intimidating can really end up being pretty approachable, even in 'opposing' orgs.. and if someone says they want to get involved in something, many players will do what they can to help^^;

But YMMV... and I think the tone someone takes matters a *lot*... like in other games, from what I've seen just watching and stuff.. being kind of, well, combative or really bitter.. these things can turn away even the friendliest people..

But that doesn't mean some people might not be welcoming in Lusternia... just do the best you can on your end and if you really can't break in, maybe try somewhere else... good luck!

Riluna

Do you feel properly rewarded for that @Sylandra?

How did you get the friends you did, @Sylandra? Just being yourself? Did you have to be a special snowflake or did it just turn out that way?

Falaeron

Sylandra said:

Domoths sound dull AF.

They are most of the time.

Xenthos

To be fair, Domoths are only boring if you make them so; upgrade when there's opposition around and the boring will go away pretty quickly!

That one's completely within the Domoth holder's power to control.

Othero

So what is the point of this thread? So far it just seems like a passive-aggressive airing of grievances. Is your beef with cliques? They're not going away and they're really not a problem. Cliques are the natural outcome in any social setting, individuals who agree are going to spend time with each other, invite in other like-minded people, and if they make a majority they're going to make decisions. If you want to be invited to that big kids table reach out to them and find out what they look for in people. 

Is your problem that combat is a big part of the game? Yeah, best advice for that then is play a different game. Conflict and PvP is a huge part of Lusternia and isn't going away and is not going to stop being important to each org. You don't have to be good at it but it goes a long way if you show up and help. Spam some hindering abilities and have a basic knowledge of curing and it will go a long way in a group fight.

Riluna said:

Do you feel properly rewarded for that @Sylandra?

How did you get the friends you did, @Sylandra? Just being yourself? Did you have to be a special snowflake or did it just turn out that way?

Also, this is probably part of the reason people are not climbing over themselves to play with you. You maybe didn't mean it to but this reads as incredibly rude. Sylandra's advice is on the nose. Be nice, put yourself out there, show off what you do, and you'll pull people in. Quizzing them about why they have friends and calling them a special snowflake won't.