Orclach Whips

XenthosXenthos Shadow LordMember Posts: 5,895 Transcendent
edited November 2013 in Common Grounds
What are the rules regarding these whips?

I'm told that they aren't weapons (so they can't be sheathed), their damage isn't impacted by bard songs, nor is it increased by DMP.

None of these things are mentioned in the help files, but if true, they reduce the value of the items considerably; if it's not possible to use offensive DMP from bard songs / darkbrew / etc. then it leaves these abilities rather behind their counterparts, and leaves one with a much more muddled and confusing determination on whether or not to use one.

For example, if it's fatally weak to Divinus damage, but terribly weak to fire damage, should you use a fire attack that can have DMP adjust it versus your very expensive artifact?  It's currently impossible to tell as there is no indication as to the percentage of weakness aside from the descriptor itself (which covers a wide range of percents).

I'd appreciate clarification on these from whomever knows, as I'd rather not splurge just to find out that things don't work the way one would reasonably expect them to.  Thanks!
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Post edited by Xenthos on
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Comments

  • ArdmoreArdmore Member Posts: 509 Fabled
    I, too, would like clarification on what buffs get applied to these. I also think it'd be great if they could be sheathed. I don't see why they couldn't be. It just causes problems for poor warrior me.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,722 Transcendent
    It's a novelty, people. Besides, we know the real use is in manses.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • ZiliasZilias Member Posts: 24 Apprentice
    First, let me say that I think these items are great.  I personally feel they give some players the ability to hunt in areas they would probably not be equipped to hunt in.  

    That said, I do think that some clarification on how they work would be nice to see in the help files.  They are a pricey item to invest in blindly, even if I may have done just that.  The fact that they are not affected by any boosts seems to drop their value, in addition to the fact that they can not really be treated as a normal weapon.  In most cases, Shaddus is right, they are a tool to use in your manse for the types of things that we dare not speak about publicly :P

    All jokes aside, I think they are neat but would like to know how they work in more detail and maybe think about making them more of an actual weapon rather than just a novelty, but rather a real useful alternative to hunting with class specific weapons.  The cost here would be very high to hunt effectively since you would have to buy a few of them, but it could be a cool way to spice up RP.  Maybe even start a new type of class Knighthood >> Slavemaster heh 
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  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,769 Transcendent
    From speaking to Iosai it's affected by some forms of DMP but not others, Bard song was given as an example, what else does and doesn't I was encouraged to find out myself.

    At a guess, I get the feeling personal DMP may well affect it, but externally gained factors will not.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • IosaiIosai Member, Gods Posts: 201 Divine
    Pretty much all DMP will affect the damage of the whip. However, because the damage is sourceless, there are a few specific buffs that don't affect, most noticeably, the Music city/commune damage buff song. That's really the only thing I know off-hand that doesn't work.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,769 Transcendent
    To that extent I assume Havoc Cry would be the same?

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • IosaiIosai Member, Gods Posts: 201 Divine
    No, Havoc Cry works.
  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    I think someone tested with darkbeer (or whichever beer gives damage buff) and found that not working; does that buff work the same as the songs?
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  • IosaiIosai Member, Gods Posts: 201 Divine
    For the sake of clarity, I can now say that the music buff is the only one that isn't applied to whips, and I'm currently investigating the reason why. (It's specifically exempted, but I can't remember why)
  • IosaiIosai Member, Gods Posts: 201 Divine
    Darkbeer works fine. All buffs work (except music which is currently under review). Promise!
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,722 Transcendent
    Is it because the source of the damage is based on the whip and not on the user/user's stats?
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    I want one purely for the RP. Nothing more. Just sayin'

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
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  • IosaiIosai Member, Gods Posts: 201 Divine
    edited October 2013
    Shaddus said:
    Is it because the source of the damage is based on the whip and not on the user/user's stats?
    No, it's because there is no source for the damage. Damage source is used to tell Lusternia which stat should be used to modify the damage. Since we didn't want to get into having a set of strength whips, a set of int whips, etc, we decided to opt for no damage source. The Music buff song specifically ignores damage with no source, probably because it affected something in the past with no source that it shouldn't have.

    This is another problem that will disappear with the overhaul. Yay!
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,769 Transcendent
    Not for these whips, but for future items, is it possible to code "Will use the higher of either strength or intellect" in terms of determining a damage source?

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • RialormRialorm Member Posts: 1,055 Transcendent
    Draylor said:
    I want one purely for the RP. Nothing more. Just sayin'
    Manse RP? :P

    Jokes aside, how would these work for monks? My bashing forms have up to three attacks in them, and nekai are one-handed weapons. Would it be more alike to the monks that use 2h weapons or are they not used in forms at all?
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  • TacitaTacita <3s Xynthin 4eva!!!11 Member Posts: 789 Transcendent
    edited October 2013
    They're not used in forms at all; they have their own separate attack. They consume 'normal' balance rather than armbal for a start.
  • IosaiIosai Member, Gods Posts: 201 Divine
    They are not used in Kata forms at all. The command is simply WHIP <target>, with a given whip wielded.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,895 Transcendent
    Thank you for the clarification. :)
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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,722 Transcendent
    image

    Come at me, Kethuru.
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Thanks!

  • ChadeChade Member Posts: 265 Gifted
    Going to be a pain sorry, quick question about DMP and PvE combat.

    Ardmore, Neos and myself just tested the effects of DMP on our bashing damage using our beasts to track the damage. Ardmore and I were using beasts with Thicken Hide, Neos beast did not have Thicken Hide.

    I did 120 damage, Ardmore did 153 damage and Neos did 767 with no extra DMP.

    We all got drunk (party time!) then sipped DarkBeer to increase our DMP buffs to 40-50DMP and tested again. We all did exactly the same damage: 120, 153 and 767 even with over 30% extra damage from DMP. Is this because beasts calculate damage differently to other denizens, or does DMP not affect PvE or is it a bug?

    I bugged it just to be on the safe side :p

    PS: Are whips supposed to do variable damage in PvE? They're the only bashing attack I could find that did variable damage (between 210-264 damage depending on swing)
  • NeosNeos The Subtle Griefer Member Posts: 1,538 Transcendent
    Chade also wanted to see me die, but Liquidform saved me.
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  • RiviusRivius Your resident wolf puppy Member Posts: 1,617 Transcendent
    How fast are these whips on neutral balance?
  • DraylorDraylor Member Posts: 373 Capable
    edited October 2013
    3.6s from my testing. (Not taking latency into account).

    Also, these whips are OP. That is all.

    Saracen Combat & Utility System: Undergoing rewrite. IRE-wide single system coming in due course.
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  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,769 Transcendent
    edited October 2013
    Sounds about right, they're 3.2 for Aslaran.

    The damage of the whips is suppose to be IIRC just short of destruction damage, but in certain scenarios where you have whip type vulnerability/fire resistance/both the whip will win out.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • IosaiIosai Member, Gods Posts: 201 Divine
    edited October 2013
    No, that's not quite true. Whip damage is on par with destruction damage for everyone except the holder of the War domoth.

    I've also just removed the random part of the whip damage.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,769 Transcendent
    edited October 2013
    Is that before or after destruction is boosted by the magic rune?

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • IosaiIosai Member, Gods Posts: 201 Divine
    Before, yeah, because the magdam rune won't affect whips.
  • ChadeChade Member Posts: 265 Gifted
    <3 Iosai

    Thanks for the clarifications.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,722 Transcendent
    So now the new meta is to buy a whip to flay people with during fights?
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
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