Promo Discussion From Tweets

24

Comments

  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    Especially when it literally wasn't a typo, bug, or simple error and so the whole comparison to bug abuse falls apart. 

     You can keep saying "it's clearly the wrong thing to do" all day but that doesn't make it so. 



    Karlach said:
     The whole point isn't that some people [not me] got a chance to get rich and others [me] didn't,
    The emphasis here is mine, because it's really telling if your "whole point" problem with how this promo went down is that some players got resources and others didn't and that's somehow the fault of players, who didn't control how those resources were priced or distributed. Really really telling. 
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    edited March 2017
    The analogy was purely something you know is bad, and you realise it's bad but you continue to do it anyway.

    I chose something obvious that wasn't a grey are to get bogged in semantics. Instead you drag out hyperbole and miss the entire point and bog it down in semantics, well done.

    The issue here isn't taking a promo to get rich quick, it's the "no guys I did you all a favour see, because with only a few of us getting rich the in game economy is less damaged unlike if everyone got credits and had benefitted" as if for doing something they knew was wrong, they justify it as if they did us a favour.

    It's that level of arrogance I hold umbridge with, you wanted a get rich quick option and took it, kudos. Don't try to paint it as if you saved the game from a potentially damaged economy as if we should be thanking you.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    I should point out the above is the exact argument that has been made on Discord for days, that we should be glad they did it because imagine if the wealth was more spread, people wouldn't buy credits and thus the game would suffer.

    That it's being painted as some noble action, and not what it was, is the problem I have.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • ShedrinShedrin Member Posts: 905 Transcendent
    edited March 2017
    Karlach said:
    The analogy was purely something you know is bad, and you realise it's bad but you continue to do it anyway.

    I chose something obvious that wasn't a grey are to get bogged in semantics. Instead you drag out hyperbole and miss the entire point and bog it down in semantics, well done.

    The issue here isn't taking a promo to get rich quick, it's the "no guys I did you all a favour see, because with only a few of us getting rich the in game economy is less damaged unlike if everyone got credits and had benefitted" as if for doing something they knew was wrong, they justify it ss if they did us a favour.

    It's that level of arrogance I hold umbridge with, you wanted a get rich quick option and took it, kudos. Don't try to paint it as if you saved the gamr from a potentially damaged economy as if we should be thanking you.
    That's not the argument you made in your previous posts, and second, has anyone said that, ever?

    edit:
    Karlach said:
    I should point out the above is the exact argument that has been made on Discord for days, that we should be glad they did it because imagine if the wealth was more spread, people wouldn't buy credits and thus the game would suffer.

    That it's being painted as some noble action, and not what it was, is the problem I have.

    Well I don't follow Discord so maybe that occured. I think that's a flawed argument as well but it doesn't make any player actions wrong here.

  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    Enyalida said:

     You can keep saying "[it's] clearly the wrong thing to do
    something you know is bad" all day but that doesn't make it so. 

     

  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me. Member Posts: 1,613 Transcendent
    FYI, if your point is that "people are painting their selfish actions as noble", you should probably open up with that, not allude to bug abuse or murder.
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  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    Shedrin said:
    Karlach said:
    The analogy was purely something you know is bad, and you realise it's bad but you continue to do it anyway.

    I chose something obvious that wasn't a grey are to get bogged in semantics. Instead you drag out hyperbole and miss the entire point and bog it down in semantics, well done.

    The issue here isn't taking a promo to get rich quick, it's the "no guys I did you all a favour see, because with only a few of us getting rich the in game economy is less damaged unlike if everyone got credits and had benefitted" as if for doing something they knew was wrong, they justify it ss if they did us a favour.

    It's that level of arrogance I hold umbridge with, you wanted a get rich quick option and took it, kudos. Don't try to paint it as if you saved the gamr from a potentially damaged economy as if we should be thanking you.
    That's not the argument you made in your previous posts, and second, has anyone said that, ever?
    See follow up post.

    And my point has been consistent, people going "hrm this doesnt seem intended, I will point out that it doesnt seem to be working as intended and then continue to make the most of it"

    At no point does that suddenly absolve someone of taking advantage, not does trying to spin it as you did the game a favour.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 2,016 Transcendent
    edited March 2017
    It was a stupid offer. The admin were made aware it was potentially broken inf credits from the start. I even said to one like almost right after "this is broken, is it ok?" and was given the go ahead.

    No one who did it did it for altruistic reasons they did it for greed to get rich quick. (I did it a bit myself and ya I admit it was pure greed, I mean who doesnt want all the credits and goop to spend on yourself and your friends. And anyone who did it and says it wasn't for greed is probably lying.)

    Its the second time a daft offer like this came out in the half a year or so I've been playing. Daft offers that are too good to be true seem to be a commonish thing here so like it sucks for the people who miss out due to not being logged on when it hits and its a bad way to treat customers but thats on the company not the other customers who got in the door first.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    edited March 2017

    To break Karlach's sudden rekindling of this issue down:
    • he enters the thread by asserting that buying and cycling crates/spins was an exploit and comparing it to murder. 
    • He does not explain why or how anything that happened is an exploit or define "an exploit" in any way. 
    • It's pointed out that his metaphor doesn't work and it's discarded. 
    • Counter point: it wasn't an exploit in the sense of bug abuse or abuse in general.
    • His counter point: "It is because you know it is bad". 
    • Asked to explain how people were acting in bad faith by participating at face value in a promotion as offered - particularly after exhibiting due diligence in pointing out that the high profits may not have been intended and suggesting ways to curb high profits, 
    • His response: "But you know it's wrong".

      At no point is any support for this statement offered, besides continued assertion that it's 'just wrong'. Then goal posts move again on the basis of firm assertions but less-than-firm [absent, in fact] support for those assertions. 
    Yer welcome, thread read for you.

    1/10 troll, would not pass over bridge. 

    tl;dr Yes it sucks. Yes there were problems with the promotion. No, those problems were not the fault of players. NO, those problems were not the fault of players. NO, no players were at fault in the creation of this promo. No, the problems in this promo were not the fault of players. 

    I'm bummed I didn't get to buy my 4-2 crates worth of coins. Can't really blame @Falaeron et. al. for that, any more than I could if 100 people got there before me and bought out the trader at 1 crate each.  
  • TirahTirah Member Posts: 442 Mythical
    Enyalida said:


    1/10 troll, would not pass over bridge. 


    I laughed.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    Shuyin said:
    FYI, if your point is that "people are painting their selfish actions as noble", you should probably open up with that, not allude to bug abuse or murder.
    In fairness the first post was also a reply to Maligorn when he stated:

    "I don't think it counts as an exploit if people have literally been cautioning about it since day 1. If the admin don't take action immediately, then for many people (even myself, who hasn't participated in the promo at all) take that as "okay, I guess we're good to just keep spinning". Nor do I think it's an exploit if the people "exploiting it" are as plain as possible about what they're doing and actively supporting a "please end this now" stance."

    Imagine that logic with skills if you find something and BUG it. 24 hours later and no reply? Well you told them so better keep using it, infact best use it constantly so the admin are more obliged to deal with it.

    No one abuses something in this game for altrustic purposes, and to claim otherwise is bull.

    Granted I should have made that clear in my original post but I wanted a clear set black and white example. Stabbing people seemed pretty clear. 

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,160 Transcendent
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,376 Mythical
    Now do 'Coffee is for Closers'
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,006 Transcendent
    Ugghgghh. Once again, your comparison is just terrible. A promotion =/= a bug. And maybe if it really were a bug or exploit for the first 24 hours and for some reason the administrators took a huge day off and decided not to worry about it, it wouldn't have done that much damage/could've been rolled back/would've actually resulted in punishment. But it's been over a week now. This. Isn't. An. Exploit. The admin are the ones who get to define what is and isn't. Not you, and not anyone trying to pull this holier-than-thou crap.

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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,160 Transcendent
    How about we drop it and keep Tweets from being locked, hm?
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    Enyalida said:

    To break Karlach's sudden rekindling of this issue down:
    • he enters the thread by asserting that buying and cycling crates/spins was an exploit and comparing it to murder. 
    As in Discord, reading comprehension is your downfall. The point of the stabbing analogy was explained several times before you posted this diatribe.
    • He does not explain why or how anything that happened is an exploit or define "an exploit" in any way. 
    exploit
    verb

    1.make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource).

    Please tell me how this wasn't exploited? An opportunity was seen and taken to its fullest extent.
    • It's pointed out that his metaphor doesn't work and it's discarded. 
    By a terrible metaphor that wasn't at all accurate.
    • Counter point: it wasn't an exploit in the sense of bug abuse or abuse in general.
    • His counter point: "It is because you know it is bad". 
    You claim I counterpoint my own point with a point I didn't make?
    • Asked to explain how people were acting in bad faith by participating at face value in a promotion as offered - particularly after exhibiting due diligence in pointing out that the high profits may not have been intended and suggesting ways to curb high profits, 
    • His response: "But you know it's wrong". )
    And at this point I'm wondering where you're reading this, or if you're capable of reading. Because the point has sailed firmly over your head.

    1/10 troll, would not pass over bridge. 

    Thank you for rating the quality of your terrible post, at no point did you actually manage to represent the discussion or my argument, good job, now get back under the bridge.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    Enyalida said:
    Karlach said:
     The whole point isn't that some people [not me] got a chance to get rich and others [me] didn't,
    The emphasis here is mine, because it's really telling if your "whole point" problem with how this promo went down is that some players got resources and others didn't and that's somehow the fault of players, who didn't control how those resources were priced or distributed. Really really telling. 
    There's a word there you're conveniently overlooking. It's "isn't " as in "this isn't the problem."

    You then base an entire argument out of removing that word. See what I mean about your awful reading comprehension?

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • TirahTirah Member Posts: 442 Mythical
    So how about that sportsballgame? I heard local team did great. Lets talk about sportsballgame.
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    Tweets closing down in 3...2...
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,006 Transcendent
    edited March 2017
    I think a lot of your problem is that you assume people that are banking off of this promo are trying to pass themselves off as good or even great. They're not. Not even in the least bit. They just don't like being accused of exploitation or all this hubbub. I think it's natural to want to defend yourself from that kind of ridiculous sentiment.

    edit: I'd even wager to say if you're detecting any kind of "I'm not only neutral, but righteous for taking advantage of this" from other people, then they're probably trolling you because of your laughable stance.

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  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    edited March 2017
    To see an advantage and make the most out of it is the dictionary definition of exploiting.

    Hell given the opportunity most of us would do it, it's trying to justify it as altrustic because x excuse that is the issue. You did it, you beat others to the punch, just don't go trying to paint the S on your chest as if you did a good thing.

    Edit: Yes they're trolling me for this stance that was caused by them passing it off as righteous caused by my stance caused by them passing it off as righteous caused by...

    Great logic their Maligorn. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,218 Transcendent
    edited March 2017
    The promo itself sure it's the admins fault... what has happened since it began definitely has some players at fault.

    From what I've seen there have been comments that it was the quantity that was enabling the high returns. I believe through a combination of goop generation, guaranteed wins, and chance with regards to other artifact prizes? 

    The "noble" argument that is made seems to be at odds with other arguments made by those people, If people hadn't been buying out every last crate then a hundred people would have spun the wheel 25 times each day. Rather than 3 spinning it over like 800 times each?

    More people would have meant less goop, so less availability to convert it back into credits. A chance that people will get an artifact they'd want to keep so they do. The favours/buffs wouldn't be extending out as far as they are(mine wore off today).

    Afaik, the threat of shrubbing was sufficient to stop Iimperian players from spinning their wheel when there was an issue with it and they didn't know. The players here knew, absolutely knew immediately that this was broken, and made the choice to try to turn as much of a profit from it as possible, there wasn't even a 24-hour wait to see if it was okay.


    Also, for @Maligorn any aspect of a system that is not working as intended is a bug, this is both in coding and design. In this case, the design that was bugged because it was behaving in a manner that was not intended as evidenced by the multiple changes to make it work as intended. 

    The ability to cycle and profit from that is a bug unless the admin intended the wheel to work that way.


    I am still confused as to why people feel this is so meaningfully different from a coded mistake in the wheel that gave you unlimited spins, it's effectively the exact same thing.
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  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,006 Transcendent
    edited March 2017
    So...um...where's the bug repair, or the punishments being doled out, or the announcement that "this is a bug, don't do this or we're gonna come down hard on you", or the rollback, so on and so forth.

    So you've insulted my logic not once, but twice now, Karlach. I don't really know where to go with this anymore. This is that freaking batphone outcry all over again. You win, they're exploiting the system.

    okay one real quick edit: it's not necessarily you Mork, that they're making fun of. Other people were making super bitter remarks before you.

    Image result for taylor swift okay gif

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  • FylerFyler Member Posts: 598 Mythical
    edited March 2017
    I mean, disagreeing that there's a valid comparison between stabbing people repeatedly and taking part in a sales campaign as advertised isn't exactly an argument of "semantics." Unless...I suppose, the advertisement was for stabbing people, but that's really a strange discussion on ethics. 

    Consumers are not obligated to answer for underpriced products. Producers are not obligated to answer for over priced purchases. So long as the transaction is transparent, there's no "guilt" in the the transaction. That's how the system universally works literally by design.

    If you want to call people sanctimonious douche buckets for proclaiming buying up a promotion is some sort of self sacrifice for fairness, that's probably a fair argument. Though that's really not how you started this tangent, so you'll have to excuse us "trolls" for being confused that it was your intended destination.
    Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    Maligorn said:

    So you've insulted my logic not once, but twice now, Karlach. I don't really know where to go with this anymore.
    Your logic created a theoretical time loop where two events were the precursor to each other, what did you honestly think was going to happen?

    Maybe think before coming up with those clever zinger attempts next time, though it's amusing you get salty at me apparently insulting you when I pointed out a flaw in your attempt to insult me.


    And Celina, I'll concede, I wasn't as clear as I could have been.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,376 Mythical
    Possibly, but a few people used to say that about me and Celina back in the day and that was never true
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    edited March 2017
    So you keep bringing up this strawman of someone who is trying to paint themselves as being "noble" or "doing the game favour". You claim that these statements were made in Discord. In Discord you claimed that you were actually talking about Malarious. Malarious hasn't even posted in the Discord server since this promotion started. Nobody has made these claims in Discord. Until you brought this up, the only discussion that was had on Discord was between a few of us (some of who hadn't even touched a crate) who talked about how it is good for the game's health that the stock was initially limited. None of us patted ourselves, or each other, on our backs for "doing the game a favour". We were simply stating a fact - if the stock had been unlimited the damage would have been much more widespread. We can't even take credit for the limit as that was done by the admins.

    I don't know what you're trying to do with these thinly-veiled accusations, but please, I'm sure you have something better to do with your time.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,868 Transcendent
    No. The claim about the economy is one that has circulated Discord and one you're continuing to perpetuate. As if what you did was some altruistic good thing, and not what it actually was.

    The discussion about Malarious was not even waiting for an admin reply before continuing to spin.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
This discussion has been closed.