The point is that Glomdoring likes to paint all critique as negative in nature, and then either cry "personal attack" or deflect topic when called out.
The gist I am getting from the past few days on here, is that a siginificant amount of people have either left the game or are leaving because of Glomdoring's dominance. They have said so themselves. Even if this is somehow one big misconception, it doesn't change the fact that people did actually leave because they felt Glomdoring was oppressive.
And from what is going on here, no amount of 'But guys, if you actually did X' coming from Glomdoring players is going to change anything. Even if it is a valid argument, even if Moondancers really are the best class in the game people do not believe you, and you, Glomdoring players are not convincing them otherwise.
This game is slowly dying. Glomdoring neesd to do something drastic if it wants the game to continue to exist. Is it fair on them that it is at this point? Well, we could have another seven pages of argument about it and I doubt anyone will change their mind. What can you do? I don't know. I'm just a little Aquamancer who can see when people are hurting. You're the ones who are expert at combat. Do something. Anything. Anything that stops this.
I am going to leave here a post made by @Enya on the other thread, which I think is important to keep in mind before we start telling people who are unhappy with the state of the game that the problem is their attitude.
For me personally, Esoneyuna, I did what you suggested. I moved on from Lusternia and spent my time on other games. So did many players who retired. The problem here is that Lusternia, as a community, would prefer not to lose its players to other games, and this thread is, directly or indirectly, an attempt for players to give voice to why this is happening. And speaking about why you leave a game that you once loved is, by definition, negative. Policing and gaslighting people for being "negative" when they have very real frustrations accumulated over months and years is not a good way to have an honest conversation, which this game must do if there is to be a turnaround.
Here is my counterpoint to him:
There is a difference between critique, and being consistently negative. It was also directed more towards behavior on clans, discords, tells, IG conversations etc than it was to this topic.
I mean, we could also dig up all the stats that show how many positive experiences the admin need to create for players to start cancelling out the negatives because, in theory, they're meant to be trying to make something people want to play and invest in.
We also do have players that are taking on the personal decisions to get more positivity in their lives (i.e they left Lusternia)
And as far as critique goes, you only get to expect that if you've demonstrated it's worth peoples time. Seriously, one of the most repeated things I've seen is players complaining, offering solutions, admin ignoring those solutions and asking for solutions which they still don't implement.
Even if it is a valid argument, even if Moondancers really are the best class in the game people do not believe you, and you, Glomdoring players are not convincing them otherwise.
I mean, MDs could also be the best class in the game but that doesn't make Serenwilde better of than Glomdoring. (or insert any other class from any other org)
Seems like the synergy and strength of Glom as a whole is the key complaint, if the rest of Serens classes are underpowered and lack decent/any synergy then one class being top tier doesn't really make up for that.
With the other complaints as behaviors kinda seems like the whole diverting arguments to distract people.
There is a difference between critique, and being consistently negative. It was also directed more towards behavior on clans, discords, tells, IG conversations etc than it was to this topic.
I can only suggest to you when you get that feeling of hopelessness, take a break.
OK, long post incoming, skip to the bottom if you want. I think that, in general, the discussion about negativity vs positivity is a red herring, and not just because it presumes that something is wrong with the player instead of wrong with the status quo. It says, essentially, why are you like this? Why can't you smile? And if you can't, leave the game. But Lusternia is no longer in a position where it can tell players to leave the game, and I think we all understand that.
The real question is, what do players want from a game like Lusternia, and what aren't they getting, that is causing them to leave? I can only speak for myself, of course, but I've looked through some of the responses in this thread from people across the divide.
I no longer have any (expletives) left to give and while I was passionate about helping my org and being dedicated and putting in a good showing, in reality losing sucks. I have never liked combat but I was always willing to give it a go and learn to do things better.
Now the two arguably strongest orgs in the game are a massive wall that I have no real life desire to even engage with, because there's no fun in that.
I log in to play with friends and to help them succeed, not for any particular desire to shake people down for their lunch money.
This also concurs with my own experience of the game. Lusternia has gone free to play, and we're getting wondercrystals, leprechaun events, daily credits, and all manner of shiny things. And those are all good things, but I think it's a mistake to focus on them as a path towards retaining players. I'm as fanatical of a curio collector as the next person, and god knows I have way too many artifacts, but at the end of the day, a curio is just a line of text. Credits are just a number. They mean nothing to the player, unless Lusternia means something. And what gives Lusternia meaning?
For my part, it's exactly what @Lavinya and @Tarken said. I played this game for my org and my friends. I wanted to help them succeed and to make a difference. It's what made me force myself to go from a noncombatant who only did design and stage writing, and whose hands shook IRL every time I went into Faethorn, to become a mostly consistent combatant who would reliably show up to defend and sometimes even to raid. I didn't do it because I wanted credits or rewards or bragging rights. I did it because I felt my friends needed me to help them turn the tide.
That's why I take issue with some of the advice given here, which boils down to "move to a different org if you don't like your org's skillsets", "have a better attitude and do the things in the game that don't require you to be good at combat" and so on. Because it's not about me. I couldn't tell you when I became a demi or when I became omnitrans or how many credits I won in events, but the things I remember clearly are my friends and people I helped learn combat telling me that I made a difference.
But the mechanical imbalance is too much. There were instances of then-North nerfing their own skillsets because others, Glomdoring among them, argued they were overtuned. But when it came time for Glomdoring to take an honest look at theirs, the distraction and deflecting was disheartening. So things got dragged out, and change never happened, and combat vs Glom continued to be an exercise in futility. One by one my friends left because they were burned out and didn't want to deal with it anymore, and I stopped feeling like I could make any difference at all.
No one is asking to be handed wins on a silver platter, or not to have to work. Quite the opposite, in fact. @Lavinya famously got 250k power for Mag, I contributed to grinding up over a million esteem so Shevat could get Most Honourable House, and many other players have consistently tried to work on goals for their orgs. But combat is not an area in which we can succeed just by hard work, because no matter how hard a Nihilist works they'll never have Night. And that is discouraging, and it's one of the main reasons I quit the game for over a year, because what people want isn't even victory. It's hope.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
Noob question. Is there a particular reason to design classes from different orgs in the same archetype with mechanically different skillsets?
This seems to be common and it seems like it would make much more sense to have 5 to 8 thoughtful, synergistic, well balanced skillsets, and then just change the flavoring but give each archetype the same mechanics. If there's genuinely a different skillset for each class, that's crazy. That's up to 30 skillsets needing to be balanced within and against each other. No one can expect that kind of wizardry from a handful of staff.
Until both sides are putting in equal amounts of effort with skill, enthusiasm, sparring and testing, you can not say one side is better than the other. It is just anecdote, not fact.
Because I would bet $2 to our 2c that is you swapped skills, and gave Glom your skills and you had theirs, in two months they would still be slapping you around like an unloved ginger step child. And you still would not understand why.
So many of the comments above are "We are not going going to bother, ever again" so there is no solution that would be good enough.
It is like watching the sense of entitlement that a spoilt child has on Christmas Day, where he can't see past what others have got to see what he has.
These last few threads have just seemed like a lynch mob in so many ways, and it is unpleasant to watch.
Hey @Kistan - I'm trying to refrain from engaging in the obvious bait here, but if that is truly what you believe, that this game would be better without "spoilt children" like me and others who feel the same way as I do, then thank you for at least being honest and admitting it.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
Because I would bet $2 to our 2c that is you swapped skills, and gave Glom your skills and you had theirs, in two months they would still be slapping you around like an unloved ginger step child. And you still would not understand why.
Then what does Glom have to lose in supporting improvements to other classes or a change that equalizes mechanics across archetypes? I think @Xenthos's suggestion in that vein is on point here. No need to belittle people, we're all here to help each other enjoy the game.
I'd prefer a 6-org solution rather than a paired opposing orgs solution, as I said in the other thread - people are attached to their orgs more than to their alliances, and should be able to access skillsets without moving, even to "allied orgs".
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
Noob question. Is there a particular reason to design classes from different orgs in the same archetype with mechanically different skillsets?
This seems to be common and it seems like it would make much more sense to have 5 to 8 thoughtful, synergistic, well balanced skillsets, and then just change the flavoring but give each archetype the same mechanics. If there's genuinely a different skillset for each class, that's crazy. That's up to 30 skillsets needing to be balanced within and against each other. No one can expect that kind of wizardry from a handful of staff.
Or so I would think. But again, noob question.
It's one of the ways Lusternia differentiates itself from the other games and is, when it's working right, a selling point of the game.
For me, the real issue comes in when you then add in the unending juggling that's caused by shared skills and choices.
Because it's not just 30 classes, it's like... 26-31 potential legal combinations of primary, secondary, and tertiary available to a single org. Like... you could have something like 161 players and each of them has a unique combination of class skills, more if you wanted to include high vs low magic into it.
On the other hand, if we locked down classes to specific kits then it'd potentially be less than 30 classes worth of balancing given they're all variations on the archetypes.
Noob question. Is there a particular reason to design classes from different orgs in the same archetype with mechanically different skillsets?
This seems to be common and it seems like it would make much more sense to have 5 to 8 thoughtful, synergistic, well balanced skillsets, and then just change the flavoring but give each archetype the same mechanics. If there's genuinely a different skillset for each class, that's crazy. That's up to 30 skillsets needing to be balanced within and against each other. No one can expect that kind of wizardry from a handful of staff.
Or so I would think. But again, noob question.
Flavour. Lore. But....actually, why can't we say, give opposing orgs the same stuff with a different skin? Don't have to say, make Illuminati and Celestines the same, but we can make Illuminati and Researchers the same, and Nihilists and Celestines the same, and the two Wiccan classes. Why not make them reflections? If Trueheal is as broken as people say, give Sacraments the ability to turn people into sainted who work exactly like lich but you glow with holy light and resurrect on death like a lich. Just invert how they are affected by divinus/excorable, and then, give Astral beasts identical weakness to excorable and divinus, because, apparently, they are somehow linked to some old vernals and are corrupted by Kethuru, so why not? You can justify any mechanic if you are just creative enough, even with in game events to explain it.
Yeah, you can poke a bunch of holes in this, and probably will, but the option is there.
The gist I am getting from the past few days on here, is that a siginificant amount of people have either left the game or are leaving because of Glomdoring's dominance. They have said so themselves. Even if this is somehow one big misconception, it doesn't change the fact that people did actually leave because they felt Glomdoring was oppressive.
And from what is going on here, no amount of 'But guys, if you actually did X' coming from Glomdoring players is going to change anything. Even if it is a valid argument, even if Moondancers really are the best class in the game people do not believe you, and you, Glomdoring players are not convincing them otherwise.
This game is slowly dying. Glomdoring neesd to do something drastic if it wants the game to continue to exist. Is it fair on them that it is at this point? Well, we could have another seven pages of argument about it and I doubt anyone will change their mind. What can you do? I don't know. I'm just a little Aquamancer who can see when people are hurting. You're the ones who are expert at combat. Do something. Anything. Anything that stops this.
I've spent time helping Serenwilde and Hallifax players understand their skillset build up and get kills with it. I'm always willing to help people understand their skillsets if they are having trouble with them. If you or anyone else needs help, if no one in your org is helping you send me an ooc message and I'll do my best to help you out. I've never turned anyway away when they ask for help.
For me personally, Esoneyuna, I did what you suggested. I moved on from Lusternia and spent my time on other games. So did many players who retired. The problem here is that Lusternia, as a community, would prefer not to lose its players to other games, and this thread is, directly or indirectly, an attempt for players to give voice to why this is happening. And speaking about why you leave a game that you once loved is, by definition, negative. Policing and gaslighting people for being "negative" when they have very real frustrations accumulated over months and years is not a good way to have an honest conversation, which this game must do if there is to be a turnaround.
Here is my counterpoint to him:
There is a difference between critique, and being consistently negative. It was also directed more towards behavior on clans, discords, tells, IG conversations etc than it was to this topic.
I am going to leave here a post made by @Enya on the other thread, which I think is important to keep in mind before we start telling people who are unhappy with the state of the game that the problem is their attitude. I mean, we could also dig up all the stats that show how many positive experiences the admin need to create for players to start cancelling out the negatives because, in theory, they're meant to be trying to make something people want to play and invest in.
We also do have players that are taking on the personal decisions to get more positivity in their lives (i.e they left Lusternia)
And as far as critique goes, you only get to expect that if you've demonstrated it's worth peoples time. Seriously, one of the most repeated things I've seen is players complaining, offering solutions, admin ignoring those solutions and asking for solutions which they still don't implement.
For those that took that decision good for them, I stayed away from lusty for 4 years for exactly the same reason. When you are at that, point, there is no amount of work the admin can do to make it any better at that moment in time.
I get that that admins not responding to the ideas or doing something different is vexing. However you can not expect admins to do everything a player or certain group of players wants for various reasons going from just technically not feasible to they do not agree it is a problem to they are not allowed by IRE. So maybe they are not giving enough feedback on ideas? Should they be more open about their decision process?
I for example think it would help if they destroyed things like the envoy channel cause it gives an impression of favouritism/elitism. (please note I said impression, do not take this as being actually so!) And in a similar vein I do not think balance discussions should be held in places like discord and instead should use a lets get together in game at the fates talking stick so we can discuss X, maybe even with everyone having a veil hiding their identity (though in general identities can be deduced from speech so that might be useless). It could even be chat channel everyone can tune in to while they keep playing.
I for example also think this entire mentality of the administration to hide statistics from us is a bad one. Statistics are vital to evaluate balance and by hiding them we often go to the 'feels like' side of things.
@Niwynne I think one of the main reasons cited is the amount of work of writing extra lines. For my part, as I said, I prefer a six-org solution rather than a simple mirroring situation, for several reasons. Reason one is that people should not have to move orgs to access a skillset, even if an intra-alliance move is less drastic than an alliance hop. Reason two is that, if the other thread is anything to go by, equal access for everyone is the best way to quell future balance complaints, instead of just making them pointed at a different combination of orgs.
Edit: I do think that change would be better than the status quo though, so in that I do agree.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
That's a few good points Eso. It just brought something to mind. One thing that I notice a fair few other IRE games have is regular town hall meetings where everyone can talk to the admin sort of face to face. I think it really engenders a better level of trust not just between the admin and players but with the players as well.
Until both sides are putting in equal amounts of effort with skill, enthusiasm, sparring and testing, you can not say one side is better than the other. It is just anecdote, not fact.
First of all, false. Second of all, also artifacts.
Deichtine said: I've spent time helping Serenwilde and Hallifax players understand their skillset build up and get kills with it. I'm always willing to help people understand their skillsets if they are having trouble with them. If you or anyone else needs help, if no one in your org is helping you send me an ooc message and I'll do my best to help you out. I've never turned anyway away when they ask for help.
What you're not understanding is that these people don't for one moment believe you actually have the intention to help them. Telling people that are jaded and tired and only playing the game because they are just too stubborn to quit that they just need to work harder at understanding their skills does nothing but reinforce their deeply held belief that you neither understand nor care about their position.
Also you seem to have missed the fact that I live in Celest. How does offering to help me learn to fight do anything for Serenwilde, Magnagora or Hallifax?
Deichtine said: I've spent time helping Serenwilde and Hallifax players understand their skillset build up and get kills with it. I'm always willing to help people understand their skillsets if they are having trouble with them. If you or anyone else needs help, if no one in your org is helping you send me an ooc message and I'll do my best to help you out. I've never turned anyway away when they ask for help.
What you're not understanding is that these people don't for one moment believe you actually have the intention to help them. Telling people that are jaded and tired and only playing the game because they are just too stubborn to quit that they just need to work harder at understanding their skills does nothing but reinforce their deeply held belief that you neither understand nor care about their position.
Also you seem to have missed the fact that I live in Celest. How does offering to help me learn to fight do anything for Serenwilde, Magnagora or Hallifax?
Well if they don't believe people in their own org that's hard to change. I can always point out examples of people who I have helped with their systems or their kills as examples to show its true though but you are right if people won't listen to whats happening then there isn't anything you can do to change their minds really.
While I quoted you the offer is open to anyone so hopefully it helps any budding combatants in every org.
I suspect that the issue for a lot of players who are leaving isn't that they don't understand their skills and how these skills stack up in combat, but that they do. That said, combat help is always nice; let's just not assume that all Niwynne (or any other player) needs to be competitive is to just "understand their skills" and get good.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
Deichtine said: Well if they don't believe people in their own org that's hard to change. I can always point out examples of people who I have helped with their systems or their kills as examples to show its true though but you are right if people won't listen to whats happening then there isn't anything you can do to change their minds really.
I did not say that. Don't twist my words. Again, you have missed the point. Giving examples of people you have helped is going to do nothing.
You need to show that Glomdoring is not toxic. You need to fundamentally change how Glomdoring operates, to prove you actually care about the game carrying on. Because no-one is going to rise up to stop Glomdoring. This is what they have been trying to explain for the past...however long it has been. No one can stop you. No one will stop you. You will just keep winning until you discover that there is no one left to fight.
I see people asking Glomdoring to do something. Why would anyone move from Glomdoring or even bother trying to assist someone from another org when they read posts like this and see people being absolutely disgusting on discord and in other clans/forums? And in addition to that sentiment people like Deichtine have been offering help and mostly all she receives is abuse.
If you want synergy then envoy it. Glomdoring wasn't just given great synergy. They had brilliant envoys that worked hard for what they have now. Also, there is this new envoy system, check it out, and as Xenthos will tell you, vote vote vote!
Despite the fallacy that Glomdoring fighting against changes for other organisations what I have seen is the discussion of trying to create balance in the first change instead of implementing something that was broken and spending the next 3 months fighting over how to make it balanced and waiting another 6 months for it to even be changed.
There are two problems being discussed and the solutions are being intertwined here. And somewhat rightly so but it seems to be confusing a lot of people.
Team work doesn't come naturally, you have to participate and be active, consistently. That is why we are saying you have to be in it to win it. None of us started out just having the ability to kill instantly despite the argument that Glom's skills are just that OP. You will only ever get out of combat what you put in. It is a very simple concept. And fortunately there is someone who is prepared to overlook all the abused hurled at her to keep helping, people just have to get over themselves long enough to take it.
If you want players to stay, stop being negative and pushing them away. It is that simple. If you want to have a cry about dying/whatever do it with people who you know are okay with listening to that same cyclic whining/ranting. Not in a public space where new players or alts are having to be subjected to it. Most of us are prone to doing it, it is just about finding the right audience and ensuring the health and mindset of the game remain unaffected by that moment of upset.
You realise that using the exact same arguments after people literally said 'the worst thing about Glomdoring is that they keep using the exact same arguments all the time' is just reinforcing why people dislike you?
Deichtine said: Well if they don't believe people in their own org that's hard to change. I can always point out examples of people who I have helped with their systems or their kills as examples to show its true though but you are right if people won't listen to whats happening then there isn't anything you can do to change their minds really.
I did not say that. Don't twist my words. Again, you have missed the point. Giving examples of people you have helped is going to do nothing.
You need to show that Glomdoring is not toxic. You need to fundamentally change how Glomdoring operates, to prove you actually care about the game carrying on. Because no-one is going to rise up to stop Glomdoring. This is what they have been trying to explain for the past...however long it has been. No one can stop you. No one will stop you. You will just keep winning until you discover that there is no one left to fight.
This is the kind of mindset that ensures no one ever will. People talk a lot of crap about what can and can not be done. Seriously. Swap our skills. Give me the new Nihilist! I was okay as old broken nerfed to hell Nihi, give me this new one. Or Magbard. I could go any class and be averagely okay at any of them after I spent time in the arena, after seeking help form my friends and allies. Anyone can do it. Anyone can cook! Just gotta get in the damn kitchen. I know people don't want to hear it, but it is the honest truth. I played a class that was nerfed and didn't have envoys or any reports done for almost 2 years. I played as tarot, and I was told I'd never get sacrifice off on anyone, I was told I'd never get soulless, I was told it was impossible as broken Nihi to get kills. Now I am no coder, and I don't even understand 90% of the mechanics in this game. I still got kills. Sure I died three times more than I killed. But I gave it a go and I kept at it. It was the same with Illuminati.
This is exactly why people don't get anywhere, they give up. They let a few setbacks prevent actual progression. You know who is a prime example of hard work paying off? Rolsand! That kid, man I have seen him work his ass off and he has improved so much for it. A few others too, they put in the work. If you don't want to spar, if you don't want to put time in, then just be honest, say you can't be bothered. But don't make out like Glomdoring were given everything on a silver platter because others can't be arsed.
If it's about pure skill and practice instead of skillsets, then surely you can have no objection to letting the rest of the game have access to Glomdoring skillsets and vice versa, and/or rework your skills. Then you can prove once and for all that skill and teamwork is what really matters, and I think life would be easier for Glomdoring as well as for everyone else.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
@Niwynne yeah that is why people don't like me. Because I say it how I see it. And people don't like having to face the reality that is that they just need to get over themselves and use what they have to their advantage instead of crying abut what they don't have.
Edit: Also, I had to suffer this same crap when I played in Mag. We would be raided and people would sit in their manses crying on Barracks clan chat that they were sick of being raided while I was up there defending. None of them joined, we could have defended and raided successfully so many times. I don't say these things coming from the otherside. I say these things from having actual experience of suffering this kind of group mentality. It has been this way for irl years.
Deichtine said: Well if they don't believe people in their own org that's hard to change. I can always point out examples of people who I have helped with their systems or their kills as examples to show its true though but you are right if people won't listen to whats happening then there isn't anything you can do to change their minds really.
I did not say that. Don't twist my words. Again, you have missed the point. Giving examples of people you have helped is going to do nothing.
You need to show that Glomdoring is not toxic. You need to fundamentally change how Glomdoring operates, to prove you actually care about the game carrying on. Because no-one is going to rise up to stop Glomdoring. This is what they have been trying to explain for the past...however long it has been. No one can stop you. No one will stop you. You will just keep winning until you discover that there is no one left to fight.
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm trying to help and have been actively helping other "enemy" org people with their systems and how to build kills. I'm really not sure whats toxic about that. I can't force people to take part and I can't force people to be positive. All I can do as an individual is keep on doing what I'm doing and helping them directly.
Comments
Accountability is necessary.
And from what is going on here, no amount of 'But guys, if you actually did X' coming from Glomdoring players is going to change anything. Even if it is a valid argument, even if Moondancers really are the best class in the game people do not believe you, and you, Glomdoring players are not convincing them otherwise.
This game is slowly dying. Glomdoring neesd to do something drastic if it wants the game to continue to exist. Is it fair on them that it is at this point? Well, we could have another seven pages of argument about it and I doubt anyone will change their mind. What can you do? I don't know. I'm just a little Aquamancer who can see when people are hurting. You're the ones who are expert at combat. Do something. Anything. Anything that stops this.
We also do have players that are taking on the personal decisions to get more positivity in their lives (i.e they left Lusternia)
And as far as critique goes, you only get to expect that if you've demonstrated it's worth peoples time. Seriously, one of the most repeated things I've seen is players complaining, offering solutions, admin ignoring those solutions and asking for solutions which they still don't implement.
Seems like the synergy and strength of Glom as a whole is the key complaint, if the rest of Serens classes are underpowered and lack decent/any synergy then one class being top tier doesn't really make up for that.
With the other complaints as behaviors kinda seems like the whole diverting arguments to distract people.
The real question is, what do players want from a game like Lusternia, and what aren't they getting, that is causing them to leave? I can only speak for myself, of course, but I've looked through some of the responses in this thread from people across the divide. This also concurs with my own experience of the game. Lusternia has gone free to play, and we're getting wondercrystals, leprechaun events, daily credits, and all manner of shiny things. And those are all good things, but I think it's a mistake to focus on them as a path towards retaining players. I'm as fanatical of a curio collector as the next person, and god knows I have way too many artifacts, but at the end of the day, a curio is just a line of text. Credits are just a number. They mean nothing to the player, unless Lusternia means something. And what gives Lusternia meaning?
For my part, it's exactly what @Lavinya and @Tarken said. I played this game for my org and my friends. I wanted to help them succeed and to make a difference. It's what made me force myself to go from a noncombatant who only did design and stage writing, and whose hands shook IRL every time I went into Faethorn, to become a mostly consistent combatant who would reliably show up to defend and sometimes even to raid. I didn't do it because I wanted credits or rewards or bragging rights. I did it because I felt my friends needed me to help them turn the tide.
That's why I take issue with some of the advice given here, which boils down to "move to a different org if you don't like your org's skillsets", "have a better attitude and do the things in the game that don't require you to be good at combat" and so on. Because it's not about me. I couldn't tell you when I became a demi or when I became omnitrans or how many credits I won in events, but the things I remember clearly are my friends and people I helped learn combat telling me that I made a difference.
But the mechanical imbalance is too much. There were instances of then-North nerfing their own skillsets because others, Glomdoring among them, argued they were overtuned. But when it came time for Glomdoring to take an honest look at theirs, the distraction and deflecting was disheartening. So things got dragged out, and change never happened, and combat vs Glom continued to be an exercise in futility. One by one my friends left because they were burned out and didn't want to deal with it anymore, and I stopped feeling like I could make any difference at all.
No one is asking to be handed wins on a silver platter, or not to have to work. Quite the opposite, in fact. @Lavinya famously got 250k power for Mag, I contributed to grinding up over a million esteem so Shevat could get Most Honourable House, and many other players have consistently tried to work on goals for their orgs. But combat is not an area in which we can succeed just by hard work, because no matter how hard a Nihilist works they'll never have Night. And that is discouraging, and it's one of the main reasons I quit the game for over a year, because what people want isn't even victory. It's hope.
This seems to be common and it seems like it would make much more sense to have 5 to 8 thoughtful, synergistic, well balanced skillsets, and then just change the flavoring but give each archetype the same mechanics. If there's genuinely a different skillset for each class, that's crazy. That's up to 30 skillsets needing to be balanced within and against each other. No one can expect that kind of wizardry from a handful of staff.
Or so I would think. But again, noob question.
Do you want a game just consisting of Glomdoring and Gaudiguch? Cause this is the way it happens.
For me, the real issue comes in when you then add in the unending juggling that's caused by shared skills and choices.
Because it's not just 30 classes, it's like... 26-31 potential legal combinations of primary, secondary, and tertiary available to a single org. Like... you could have something like 161 players and each of them has a unique combination of class skills, more if you wanted to include high vs low magic into it.
On the other hand, if we locked down classes to specific kits then it'd potentially be less than 30 classes worth of balancing given they're all variations on the archetypes.
Yeah, you can poke a bunch of holes in this, and probably will, but the option is there.
I get that that admins not responding to the ideas or doing something different is vexing. However you can not expect admins to do everything a player or certain group of players wants for various reasons going from just technically not feasible to they do not agree it is a problem to they are not allowed by IRE. So maybe they are not giving enough feedback on ideas? Should they be more open about their decision process?
I for example think it would help if they destroyed things like the envoy channel cause it gives an impression of favouritism/elitism. (please note I said impression, do not take this as being actually so!) And in a similar vein I do not think balance discussions should be held in places like discord and instead should use a lets get together in game at the fates talking stick so we can discuss X, maybe even with everyone having a veil hiding their identity (though in general identities can be deduced from speech so that might be useless). It could even be chat channel everyone can tune in to while they keep playing.
I for example also think this entire mentality of the administration to hide statistics from us is a bad one. Statistics are vital to evaluate balance and by hiding them we often go to the 'feels like' side of things.
Edit: I do think that change would be better than the status quo though, so in that I do agree.
Also you seem to have missed the fact that I live in Celest. How does offering to help me learn to fight do anything for Serenwilde, Magnagora or Hallifax?
While I quoted you the offer is open to anyone so hopefully it helps any budding combatants in every org.
You need to show that Glomdoring is not toxic. You need to fundamentally change how Glomdoring operates, to prove you actually care about the game carrying on. Because no-one is going to rise up to stop Glomdoring. This is what they have been trying to explain for the past...however long it has been. No one can stop you. No one will stop you. You will just keep winning until you discover that there is no one left to fight.
If you want synergy then envoy it. Glomdoring wasn't just given great synergy. They had brilliant envoys that worked hard for what they have now. Also, there is this new envoy system, check it out, and as Xenthos will tell you, vote vote vote!
Despite the fallacy that Glomdoring fighting against changes for other organisations what I have seen is the discussion of trying to create balance in the first change instead of implementing something that was broken and spending the next 3 months fighting over how to make it balanced and waiting another 6 months for it to even be changed.
There are two problems being discussed and the solutions are being intertwined here. And somewhat rightly so but it seems to be confusing a lot of people.
Team work doesn't come naturally, you have to participate and be active, consistently. That is why we are saying you have to be in it to win it. None of us started out just having the ability to kill instantly despite the argument that Glom's skills are just that OP. You will only ever get out of combat what you put in. It is a very simple concept. And fortunately there is someone who is prepared to overlook all the abused hurled at her to keep helping, people just have to get over themselves long enough to take it.
If you want players to stay, stop being negative and pushing them away. It is that simple. If you want to have a cry about dying/whatever do it with people who you know are okay with listening to that same cyclic whining/ranting. Not in a public space where new players or alts are having to be subjected to it. Most of us are prone to doing it, it is just about finding the right audience and ensuring the health and mindset of the game remain unaffected by that moment of upset.
This is exactly why people don't get anywhere, they give up. They let a few setbacks prevent actual progression. You know who is a prime example of hard work paying off? Rolsand! That kid, man I have seen him work his ass off and he has improved so much for it. A few others too, they put in the work. If you don't want to spar, if you don't want to put time in, then just be honest, say you can't be bothered. But don't make out like Glomdoring were given everything on a silver platter because others can't be arsed.
Edit: Also, I had to suffer this same crap when I played in Mag. We would be raided and people would sit in their manses crying on Barracks clan chat that they were sick of being raided while I was up there defending. None of them joined, we could have defended and raided successfully so many times. I don't say these things coming from the otherside. I say these things from having actual experience of suffering this kind of group mentality. It has been this way for irl years.
I'm not sure what you mean. I'm trying to help and have been actively helping other "enemy" org people with their systems and how to build kills. I'm really not sure whats toxic about that. I can't force people to take part and I can't force people to be positive. All I can do as an individual is keep on doing what I'm doing and helping them directly.