Announce Post #3061: Ascension Postmortem

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  • MboagnMboagn Member Posts: 113 Adept
    Going by Thalkros's idea, we'd finally have a Beauty TA.
    It's pronounced "Maggy'!

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  • EveEve Member Posts: 13 Novice
    I agree with a lot of the things that have been said tonight. (I don't want to flood the page with quotes) 


    I have a solution. I mean, hey its not combat related so it'll probably get shot down immediately- but oh well. Here goes:

    What if instead of giving out the grand prize we gave out something that hasn't -ever- nor will not ever be given out again?
    Something to say hey, yes. you. You did a bang up job and we're sorry if the way the game functioning caused you to lose an event. 
    Why not a special honours line for the event, heck let him write the thing himself if he would so like. (pending approval of course)


  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,944 Transcendent
    Can you please explain how you feel that the second suggestion makes Ixion any less of a TA?  In this scenario, Ixion would be equivalent to both Yendor & me as a TA, but Choros would have gained a little extra perk that he shared with his team.
    I think I missed your saying that being anything less than a full TA mechanics-wise would be a violation of your lines, but it is useful to know.
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  • ShangoShango Member Posts: 175 Adept
    @Xenthos if you're really so hard up about denying Ixion over all else...offer to sacrifice your own Ascended status to block his through the course of the Event, never able to be raised again. Doesn't sound very fair or pleasing an idea though, does it? No of course not. Be aware of how you come off with this constant bickering and needling.

    Though it is true, after opening up Domoth Powers to everyone (a move I do actually like, for all that I'm a Vernal myself and thus the only benefit is a bit more weight, Clairsentience, inherent Flight and being a Domoth mule)...Ascendant has lost a bit of its luster. So in THAT light, one of your own allies making the point, why are you so hard lined on this angle? Beyond denying Ixion by any means, of course. The admin aim for fair, to which you even admit yourself that the solution is just that. How are you going to turn around after admitting such yet still push for otherwise? You're saying then that fairness is not your goal here?

    And while this may seem off-topic, it's the crux of why this thread has gone on and on for 5 pages now and seems to be needing addressing. Either accept the decision as has been made, or offer a CONSTRUCTIVE idea...that is still fair to all involved...and be done with this, please?
  • AramelAramel Member Posts: 305 Mythical
    edited July 16
    Because the RP significance of TA is still there, even if the mechanical significance of TA is less so.
    (clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
  • OraelOrael Member, Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 434 Creator
    Xenthos said:
    Can you please explain how you feel that the second suggestion makes Ixion any less of a TA?  In this scenario, Ixion would be equivalent to both Yendor & me as a TA, but Choros would have gained a little extra perk that he shared with his team.
    I think I missed your saying that being anything less than a full TA mechanics-wise would be a violation of your lines, but it is useful to know.
    Because it means that you're getting something and they're not because they had bad luck with lag that potentially ruined their chances. It's back to the same thought process as why I don't think 2 TA's for your side is fair when only giving one to them. 


  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,944 Transcendent
    @Shango : You're way behind here, I accepted that he was being raised a while ago, right now I'm just trying to determine what Orael is even willing to accept as ideas, using 20-questions apparently.
    image
  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 641 Expert
    I get that people are unhappy, but this argument is becoming cyclical.

    Both sides end up with a TA. Rather than try to convince someone of something @Xenthos
     why don't you give an option that is manageable and not some mechanical impact? "A perk to all of our people" is a no.  "A better improvement to Choros" would somehow benefit him for having the luck of lag (as stated by Orael). Look at something that isn't just trying to one up people and you may actually get it. Otherwise, we should just acknowledge it and move on. 

    Xenthos seems to be the main one driving this whole thing to continue, and he had a special event to get his old name back. 
  • AramelAramel Member Posts: 305 Mythical
    edited July 16
    Orael said:
    Xenthos said:
    Can you please explain how you feel that the second suggestion makes Ixion any less of a TA?  In this scenario, Ixion would be equivalent to both Yendor & me as a TA, but Choros would have gained a little extra perk that he shared with his team.
    I think I missed your saying that being anything less than a full TA mechanics-wise would be a violation of your lines, but it is useful to know.
    Because it means that you're getting something and they're not because they had bad luck with lag that potentially ruined their chances. It's back to the same thought process as why I don't think 2 TA's for your side is fair when only giving one to them. 
    Just to be clear here- we were never taking away that Parhelion got to 3600 first.
    I may be misunderstanding this, but Orael, you've stated that you didn't mean to take away the "win", or to insinuate that Shadowlight didn't "win", but I'm not seeing how that dovetails with this insistence that only IHC had bad luck with lag, or that the people who got to 3600 first shouldn't get something above and beyond in recognition of that fact.
    (clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,030 Transcendent
    A whipped cream on top for Parhelion might be just the thing. Dunno what it would be though.

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  • AramelAramel Member Posts: 305 Mythical
    Chessboard for Halli for a year? I've been envying Glom's chessboard for a while!
    (clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
  • JasonJason Member Posts: 6 Inept
    edited July 16
    It does not matter if Seren/Magnagora/Gaudiguch deserved to lose or not, they did lose, unless you are attempting to take away the entire esport side of Lusternia as Ciaran mentioned. A sport is a competition with set parameters, there is a winner and a loser, normally with money or some other reward which in this case is an ascension. The name of Lusternia itself even mentions ascension, the predecessors have never done what is happening now in the past 13 years.

    If it is felt that both sides need to have an true ascendant risen, then there should a least be "something" for the actual winning side of the contest, which had massive amounts of people fighting and competing over.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,944 Transcendent
    edited July 16
    Orael said:
    Xenthos said:
    Can you please explain how you feel that the second suggestion makes Ixion any less of a TA?  In this scenario, Ixion would be equivalent to both Yendor & me as a TA, but Choros would have gained a little extra perk that he shared with his team.
    I think I missed your saying that being anything less than a full TA mechanics-wise would be a violation of your lines, but it is useful to know.
    Because it means that you're getting something and they're not because they had bad luck with lag that potentially ruined their chances. It's back to the same thought process as why I don't think 2 TA's for your side is fair when only giving one to them. 



    So you're saying that... in your mind, there was no winner.  It's not fair or right that the team that did get 3600 first get anything, at all, no matter how minor?
    If that's the case, I'm really not sure what we're doing in this thread.  If the Official Answer is that there was not a winner in this event, I wish it had been stated outright a while ago.  It would have saved everyone a lot of frustration... including you, I'm sure.

    image
  • MboagnMboagn Member Posts: 113 Adept
    Hey. HEY. Have Parhelion beat Kethuru so bad that he's essentially a non-threat from now on. It's high time to introduce a new Big Bad, no?
    It's pronounced "Maggy'!

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  • ShangoShango Member Posts: 175 Adept
    Mboagn said:
    Hey. HEY. Have Parhelion beat Kethuru so bad that he's essentially a non-threat from now on. It's high time to introduce a new Big Bad, no?

    Could always pull Xythin back from the Void. He still exists after all, banished by Estarra forever, but not unmade. That will be interesting a show to watch...

    To say nothing of the slew of potential Souless that DIDN'T head straight for First World at the start of the Elder Wars, who's to say such beings actually went as a single group instead of some or even 'most' heading off elsewhere into the void, either to search for something else entirely that wasn't there, or they weren't ever quite sure WHERE to find Lusternia, and the group that found us happened to be lucky?
  • NelrasNelras Member Posts: 189 Expert
    edited July 16
    Please could people stop trying to conflate IC motivation with OOC toxicity? IC, Hallifax pretty much changed sides to fight against Ixion, and that is, from my understanding, part of Celest's RP as well as he is tainted. I can't comment on Glomdoring's RP as I haven't really been involved with it. There is nothing wrong with this, nor with the feeling that this is being taken away by Ixion also being ascended.

    Now, I know that people are going to say that I am being toxic, and that I must hate Ixion OOC and that the whole thing with Hallifax was OOC (It wasn't. We just didn't have a reason to explain it IC to the people who were asking us about it). I wouldn't be surprised at this point if anyone who is against Ixion being ascended is automatically toxic for doing so. But no, I am against it because it means that our IC motivation for fighting is removed - Magnagora just wins even if we fight, even if we win, and therefore we lose. This is also why I don't feel that giving something additional to Parhelion, or to our alliance, would help. I am not going to try to change what is happening, it has already been decided that Ixion is going to get TA from this. All that I would ask in that regard is that, if at all possible, it is done in a way that doesn't leave our characters feeling that we were fighting for no reason. That, and that people stop declaring that anyone who is even slightly against this is toxic and detrimental to the game.
  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 208 Adept
    1. You have voided IC reasons for much of Celest and Glom. Please ensure this is reflected appropriately in whatever RP measure you take.

    2. Swamp water did not somehow cheat or acted in bad faith as is being implied by some. Creeping was judged to be fair by Orael to one extent or another before the event. It works well within the spirit of the rules.

    3. Speaking of, is heartstopping repeatedly to bypass insanity in an event where other methods of insanity reduction are purposely unactivated within the spirit of the rules?
  • MboagnMboagn Member Posts: 113 Adept
    There have been people who have explicitly (although privately) stated that their reasons for denying Ixion was due to 'griefing' and that it would be a 'terrible thing ICly and OOCly'. No, not everyone who is opposed to Ixion shares these views and are toxic, but there are people who do have these views, and their behaviour is toxic.

    If you do think that 'griefing' and 'terrible IC and OOC' instances are not toxic and detrimental reasons have in opposing Ixion, I am all ears for explanations.
    It's pronounced "Maggy'!

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  • NelrasNelras Member Posts: 189 Expert
    edited July 16
    There are people who are being remarkably unpleasant about it on both sides. That is not what I was talking about. What I was talking about was the fact that people are taking this to mean that this is the motivation of everyone involved and that the only reason people would ever be against this is to grief. I do not appreciate being told that I hate someone OOC just because I am concerned about the effect this will have in game.

    Furthermore, some of the OOC reasons I have heard were concerns that it devalues ascension, or that it will happen again, or that we are being told that the fight didn't count because of lag. These are not even aimed at Ixion.
  • MboagnMboagn Member Posts: 113 Adept
    If I'm being unpleasant about the situation, I apologize. I just don't want the issue of OOC vendettas to be brushed aside, because they will simply fester instead of being properly addressed. It may deserve its own discussion, though, that I can concede.

    Would you be more amenable if it was anyone other than Ixion who was raised to 2nd TA (provided they were still on the same "side")?
    It's pronounced "Maggy'!

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  • ShangoShango Member Posts: 175 Adept
    Back on topic...Afollia's idea has quite a bit of merit to balancing a bit of both sides in this. Should perhaps consider such, and how such an event may unfold? As much as is possible before it's decided on, of course....
  • NelrasNelras Member Posts: 189 Expert
    No, I wouldn't be, @Mboagn. But I also wouldn't be had it been the other way around - the questions around whether Choros would have been raised if it was reversed hold little meaning for me. I am concerned that raising a second TA would be detrimental to the RP of the side that won the fight, as well as the IC significance of ascension. Given that Orael has said that they are looking at the RP reason for raising Ixion, I am hopeful that they will try to mitigate this.
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