Announce Post #3061: Ascension Postmortem

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  • MboagnMboagn Member Posts: 147 Master
    edited July 2020
    Disclaimer, I re-watched Avatar: the Legend of Korra.

    Parhelion is our TA now. The Seals were repaired. But, the "new" Seal of Time, still slightly out of synch with the others, hiccups, and an alternate timeline crashes into ours: a timeline wherein Ixion won and took TA. Their Ixion absorbs our Ixion, so now we just have TA Ixion (who is still Ixion the player).

    The Seal of Time, damaged from the hiccup, needs repairing. But it's too soon for another full Trial of Ascension. Avechna decides that this must be sudden death. Parhelion and two companions must face off against Ixion (/whatever his TA name will be) and his two companions. The two teams will be on Astral by themselves, where they must fight once more for the Staff. Since this is a quick-and-dirty Trial, they only need to race to 1800 (only Ixion and Parhelion can get points, but their companions can run for the Staff).

    Someone wins. Avechna blesses that TA again. As a consequence of two consecutive Trials in such a short span of time, the rest of the Seals get extra-strong and are now immune from being broken. Kethuru is now permanently trapped beyond Astral, yahoo! The line of True Ascendants is broken, and a new line begins: the Ascendants of Time, with the first one being whoever wins the quickie Final Trial. The Big Bads will now be threats from other timelines (keeping with the overall theme that Lusternia has been going since last year, with timequakes and anomalies and such).




    It's pronounced "Maggy'!

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  • SnaldSnald Member Posts: 105 Capable
    I would be open to posthumously awarding Ciaran true ascendant. This would not have any effect mechanically (as the character is retired), but I think it would make Equinox feel better. I do feel that raising a second ascendant and doing nothing for the other side is wrong and will (and has) result in some hurt feelings. I think this also may give Ciaran's player some resolution.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,020 Transcendent


    If the admin's position is that it will be better for the game in the long run, and less people will quit/retire/be bitter, I get it. But please don't try to act as if it's fair. What would have been fair would have been to cancel the event, but since it couldn't be done after the fact, the next best thing was to try to compensate both sides of the competition. The problem is you forgot to compensate my former alliance. Orael's position, as I understand it, is that ascending Choros is the compensation, but he doesn't seem to realize that Choros' ascension is only a compensation if he is nullifying the fact that Choros won the ascension event.

    So by my understanding, winning the event was made impossible by active admin intervention, something completely out of the hands of anyone within our alliance.  Can you see why this is not well received?
    ...
    There is absolutely no question that there is no malign intent or bias from Aonia, Oreal, or any of the other Godmin. I just think they've made a series of mistakes here that we as the aggrieved parties are failing to properly convey.
    And I am not sure how to convey it.  But I think your post is important, especially the bits I clipped out here.
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,020 Transcendent
    Lief said

    So many players on our side really were crushed by the outcome more than usual because of the lag. This is a lovely morale boost and I'm not sure how it OOC takes away from the winning side. I am 100% sympathetic to the IC, as again, I'm not sure how Lief will react. But I really do feel that OOC it is a phenomenal gesture that our current admin will take responsibility and work to improve it for next year.

    I think others have said, throughout this thread, why it diminishes the winning side... but there are a lot of posts at this point.
    Basically, boil it down to this.
    Two teams make it to the finals.  Whether it be the World Series, Stanley Cup, World Cup- you have two teams out on the field with a huge amount invested, emotionally, in the challenge.
    The field is a ruined mess.  The game isn't called, but everyone is running, slipping, sliding through the mud.
    Instead of calling the game, though, on it goes.
    It is hard-fought, but when the time ticks down there is a winner.  The cup is given to the winning team.  But then, a couple of days later, the sport's authorities decree that they are making a second cup, exactly the same, and providing it to the other team.
    Imagine the feelings of the first at this point, the emotions.  This is the ultimate prize of their sport.  They won it.  Circumstances entirely beyond their control affected the outcome, but because the game continued regardless they pushed on despite that... the joy, the euphoria of overcoming the odds and making the comeback win.
    And now, they are told that the thing they competed for is just being duplicated and handed over to the other team- the thing they fought so hard to attain, the recognition that they prevailed, is now diminished to a participation trophy.
    That is why it feels like it takes away.
    Is it the right call in the context of a game that is simply not in the category of e-sports?  Possibly- if they are attempting to convert the game to be something less competitive, less us v. them, then sure.  But that is not how the event was billed, or until this post was made two days later.  Up until that point the event was the ultimate challenge, Lusternia's version of the World Series.  Acknowledging that, and accounting for that as well, is fair.


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  • RuikuRuiku Member Posts: 5 Novice
    edited July 2020
    Xenthos said:
    I think it is a fair point to say that the competition did not involve $ (that I know of, at least).  This has not always been the case.  Final Ascension challenges in the past actually have had seal holders requesting significant Paypal donations for support- personally this feels extremely metagamey, but perhaps the mere fact that it has happened helps you understand how invested players are / think others are in the outcome.
    Beyond that, though, a competition does not need to involve money to be treated as a competition.  There is the prestige involved in gaining something that is a "limited-time offer," for example.
    A question for you at this point: if Ixion was raised TA, but something else minor was done to acknowledge Choros' win in addition to that, would that offend you?  Would you be as demoralized as you say you were after the event ended?
    Woah woah, who and when did this happen? That seems like something that should have been brought up in years past, why didn't it? 

    Why not give Parhelion an additional Honour Line? If Ascension does change in the future, this can be retroactively changed to state he was the Last True Ascendant to be raised or something in this ballpark. I am sure he would appreciate it and @Xenthos can feel better knowing it will be an honour line that Ixion cannot ever receive and Ixion's TA will be diminished in some form.


  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 981 Transcendent

    Imagine the feelings of the first at this point, the emotions.  This is the ultimate prize of their sport.  They won it.  Circumstances entirely beyond their control affected the outcome, but because the game continued regardless they pushed on despite that... the joy, the euphoria of overcoming the odds and making the comeback win.
    That's not a comeback win. Circumstances beyond your control affecting the outcome means that the outcome was beyond your control. If the outcome had not favored you I doubt you'd be pleased with the result. It's the same as complaining that certain skills/combinations are OP - if they are, in fact, OP, then it's not the fault of the ones who are fighting against it whether they win or lose. It's the fault of the admin for not making the playing field fair. No offense to Orael or anyone else, because hindsight is 20/20.

    There's not really many real-life comparisons to online lag. If the goal in your scenario was to win the game despite the odds, then that could be a valid competition(though it sounds unsafe). But server responses don't affect everyone equally at all times, as would be the case on a bad playing field. 
    "Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
  • TridemonTridemon Member Posts: 816 Mythical
    Orael said:
    One thing that appears we did not communicate clearly is that the event tomorrow is not just for Ixion and Mag/Gaudu/Seren. The event is for both sides and for everyone to take part in and enjoy. 

    Again, we apologize if that wasn't clear from the beginning.
    Is Ixion guaranteed to be the one to benefit from it? Then it's for them.
    I'm Lucidian. If I don't get pedantic every so often, I might explode.
  • JasonJason Member Posts: 7 Inept
    Parhelion said:
    So, I've let curiosity get the better of me and scanned a few pages of this thread. I wish people would just leave it well enough alone. Here's my idea that piggybacks off some other ideas.


    This Saturday, Magnagora raises Ixion as VA, which is well earned not only given his hard work in the Ascension but his time and service to the Engine. A wild backlash of power from Avechna, stemming from the "points" Ixion earned during Ascension, refunds the amount of power used to raise him in its entirety.

    The admin get to roleplay it out.

    IHC get an ascendant, and let's be serious, one unlikely to ever be lowered. If they do, it's a crapton of free power.

    SL gets their one true ascendant.

    We still lost Ciaran :(




    I have listened to what Parhelion has said and fully agree with it.
  • ParhelionParhelion Member Posts: 402 Fabled
    edited July 2020
    Tridemon said:
    Orael said:
    One thing that appears we did not communicate clearly is that the event tomorrow is not just for Ixion and Mag/Gaudu/Seren. The event is for both sides and for everyone to take part in and enjoy. 

    Again, we apologize if that wasn't clear from the beginning.
    Is Ixion guaranteed to be the one to benefit from it? Then it's for them.


    Saving creation from the soulless gods is for everyone[spoiler], even if they're stinky Kethuru-touched Magnagorans.[/spoiler]

    Oh no, my spoiler tag doesn't work :( 
    Her voice firm and commanding, Terentia, the Even Bladed says to you, "You have kept your oath to Me, Parhelion. You have sworn to maintain Justice in these troubled times."

    Yet if a boon be granted me, unworthy as I am, let it be for a steady hand with a clear eye and a fury most inflaming.
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