It's disheartening that that is your reason for coming to Glom, Eodh. I would have rather you had stayed there, if that's where you wanted to play, than to join for that reason.
Everyone has experience with griefing to some extent. As a newbie to the game (and muds, really), I was constantly picked on by the 'other side', who, at that time, was Magnagora and Serenwilde. Teruelle/Malarious/all-those-people would find me on Water hunting essence, in Faethorn influencing, etc... even on Prime in villages, when village raiding was a thing.
I died so many times. And yeah, it sucked. I was basically systemless and had the dodgiest internet that would cut out every five minutes or so. But even as I died five times a day, there were people in Glomdoring who made those deaths feel worthwhile. Every time I died, instead of feeling picked on, I picked myself up and took something from it. All for the glory of Glomdoring, etc... What doesn't kill me makes me stronger. People like Talan who would commend me for doing well in something or another, or Shuyin who applauded my death and took us out for more slaughter (usually our own)... these people softened the blow and made me feel like I'd eventually be as capable as they were.
Other people survived -- why didn't I? Surely it wasn't because I was small. Other people my 'age' and 'might' were surviving being jumped. So, I learned how to use that rad button and gtfo. I asked people how I could survive more. What did distortion mean and how did I use skills like skunk and crow decoy to get out of situations? I knew I didn't stand a chance fighting the likes of Malarious, but eventually I learned how to avoid him.
Going to the elemental planes was a big deal! You wanted essence, you had better have your finger on the get-me-out-of-here trigger. I felt adrenaline, like it was a great adventure, to get away with collecting all of the starsuckers and leeches without being caught. Things like this -- the accomplishment I got from it, was what kept me hooked on the game.
I don't know what the difference is between how I took 'griefing' (?) and how others do. I remember a time when Glomdoring was raided *every* off peak night, for a good six months in 2010. Siam and I were usually the only defenders against 2-7 seasoned Mags and Serens, and most of the time, all we could do was die to them, or raise distortion and hope the Daughters/Avatars did the work for us.
Now, in saying this, I recognise everyone takes things differently. Newbies now are not me then. Circumstances are different.
I suppose, I wonder... are people who are feeling worn down actively engaging their aggressors ICly? I haven't heard from anyone on the other side (with the exception of Elanorwen/Maellio, which was hashed out -- perhaps not to everyone's ideal resolution, but I'd like to think that the door is open for further dialogue, etc). Serenwilde (Enyalida) engaged us about elders, and finally (finally!) the communes have agreed and completely stopped elder chopping. Conversation gets things happening, even if sometimes it takes work.
When I was little, I would always ask people who jumped me 'why did you attack me?' -- if the answer was something like 'because you were involved in raiding the Moon Avatars' -- I took it. Like, of course. Duh. I'm an enemy, I've not shown myself as anything *but* an enemy. Why should they want to leave me alone? Sometimes, though, I made 'friends', or at least acquaintances, of these people. And from there... interesting roleplay developed.
If it was more than I could bear on my itty-bitty-lonesome, I'd call in support. 'Nienla, Serenwilde has been camping Hifarae for three whole months and I can't stop them killing Gromagh. Help?' and the whole of Glomdoring got into a war in the Hills for my sake. I knew if I needed it, the big people of Glomdoring had my back. And recently, I've seen people on *both* sides back off when people were doing their epic after they *talked* to one another and came to an agreement.
IC understanding (or compromise, or manipulation, whatever you want to call it) isn't a light switch. You have to work at it, and sometimes it doesn't happen as you expect or want. But it usually does change things. I guess I just wish people would engage others ICly more.
I'll make a conscious effort of talking to people I attack when it's appropriate from now on, at least (I try to already, but I know it's easy to let that slip?).
Damn the forums for not letting me like and agree at the same time.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
And news flash... if people are frustrated with other aspects of the game, they're not likely to be very able to put a smile on their face and help novices when asked to do so. I'll be the first to admit that yeah, I suck at dealing with novices, and I tend to answer questions in a pretty dry fashion when asked... not to mention getting annoyed when I ask a question and they don't give me an answer, but eh... that's why most of the time I try not to deal with them in the first place, but still... when I've spent the past 4 hours getting more and more frustrated with each passing moment, I tend to be even worse. I rather doubt I'm the only one there.
I wasn't intending to say any more after posting my devil's advocate piece, but I couldn't pass up a comment on this one. I don't really intend to dispute the fact that people get emotionally involved in the game, and that losing repeatedly in PK can have a negative impact on their subsequent actions. But where newbies are concerned, using it as an excuse for less than perfect behavior is nothing but the worst sort of irresponsibility.
I have been in the exact same situation as you described before, so stressed out over a revolt that I had no time beyond to type TELL ATHREE I HAVE NO TIME TO DISCUSS THAT NOW. It also happened to be a revolt which lasted for over an hour. By the time it was over, and I had come down from the high, I was running late for an appointment, and had no choice but to insta log off. I can't even remember if we won or lost, because that's entirely irrelevant - my failure to respond in a timely fashion, and worse still, to notify him before I left, is nothing else but my failure alone. Surely, without the revolt, I would have been able to do a much better
job, but I never once believed that the revolt was the reason I did a
bad job, because I still could have done a good job with the revolt. The only reason I failed to do a good job in that situation was because I did not prioritize what should have been more important. I messaged him an apology and followed up with him on his questions later, but still, I will never say "it was because of so-and-so reason that I did this."
Just because something happened that resulted in you failing to do something, doesn't always mean that the cause of your failure is the event. Handling newbies can be stressful and thankless, but it is also important as well as rewarding in the long run. No one expects every newbie helper to be 100% perfect all the time, but pushing away the blame is not going to do anything but cause a repeat of the same failures. Do everyone a favour and take some time to think about what newbies really mean to you: important people who you want to nurture and teach the joy of the game
to, or an excuse you can use to get what you want. "If you don't do this
for me, I'm going to get so angry I might snap at the next newbie to
come around." That's what you sound like, and it turns my stomach.
I don't think it's hyperbole to say that your actions can damage people's enjoyment of the game, but maybe I'm insane or shortsighted or something. Somehow because whole organizations have yet to shrivel up and die, you take this as a sign that constantly curbstomping certain people can't possibly drive them away. The entire crux of why we should tone down griefing is somehow irrelevant and should be left out of the discussion. Okay. And you see why I always believed this conversation to be futile every single time it rose in the past.
Either way, addressing Eodh, I myself was part of Seren for a couple years now and a lot of the time I played, it was on the 'losing side'. Others are right to an extent that you do indeed need to have a good attitude about deaths and use them as a learning experience to avoid future ones. I was always well aware that certain places will be incredibly dangerous to go in, but that never stopped me from going where I needed to when I wanted to. A death is just a death after all. When you were in Seren, did you seek people out to perhaps help you out in how to deal with these situations better?
Maybe people are just different these days. When I started, there were a couple novices as my peers who were also very hardy and very early we got involved in combat, despite lacking skills and levels and earning them very slowly through ingame means only. It was a time when Seren got raided sometimes even several times a day and they needed the fighters. We fought people way out of our league constantly with very little to work with, and we still came back to keep fighting each and every time.
You can learn a lot on both the winning and the losing side and no matter where you are, you'll still need to learn how to deal with the same situations. They may not be relevant today, but they could easily be so tomorrow.
@Elanorwen: I wonder who that was, since I'm the only person I know of that checks the Prison on a regular basis, and I sure don't remember attacking you ten times in three days. I remember attacking you three times on one day, though.
Too bad Kio has every reason to hate Elanorwen ICly, miss traitory traitor.
(Note, here, that I said IC. I don't know you beyond IC, so I have no view of you as a person.)
Let's keep our exaggerations to a minimum. It'd awesome to do the same with our passive aggressiveness.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I don't think it's hyperbole to say that your actions can damage people's enjoyment of the game, but maybe I'm insane or shortsighted or something. Somehow because whole organizations have yet to shrivel up and die, you take this as a sign that constantly curbstomping certain people can't possibly drive them away. The entire crux of why we should tone down griefing is somehow irrelevant and should be left out of the discussion. Okay. And you see why I always believed this conversation to be futile every single time it rose in the past.
Hyperbole was the whole "all the fighters will leave, there will never be conflict ever, the game will become boring". Individuals might leave, reroll, orghop etc, But an entire half of the game? That's just the kind of doom-prophecy stuff that gets taken with a pinch of salt.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
To be completely fair, it's not farfetched to think about.. How many actual novices does Lusternia pick up in a month, and keep for at least 30 days who aren't Shaddus Alts?
Fixed.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
To be completely fair, it's not farfetched to think about.. How many actual novices does Lusternia pick up in a month, and keep for at least 30 days who aren't Shaddus Alts?
Fixed.
Well, Reah did specify "actual novices". You're a faux-novice. A fauvice, if you will.
To be completely fair, it's not farfetched to think about.. How many actual novices does Lusternia pick up in a month, and keep for at least 30 days who aren't Shaddus Alts?
Fixed.
Well, Reah did specify "actual novices". You're a faux-novice. A fauvice, if you will.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
@Elanorwen: I wonder who that was, since I'm the only person I know of that checks the Prison on a regular basis, and I sure don't remember attacking you ten times in three days. I remember attacking you three times on one day, though.
Too bad Kio has every reason to hate Elanorwen ICly, miss traitory traitor.
(Note, here, that I said IC. I don't know you beyond IC, so I have no view of you as a person.)
Let's keep our exaggerations to a minimum. It'd awesome to do the same with our passive aggressiveness.
You know, I find that excuse rather amusing. Why aren't you jumping @Synkarin then? He did betray Glomdoring -and- steal domoths at the same time, but eh... I'm always the evil one. :P
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
@Elanorwen: I wonder who that was, since I'm the only person I know of that checks the Prison on a regular basis, and I sure don't remember attacking you ten times in three days. I remember attacking you three times on one day, though.
Too bad Kio has every reason to hate Elanorwen ICly, miss traitory traitor.
(Note, here, that I said IC. I don't know you beyond IC, so I have no view of you as a person.)
Let's keep our exaggerations to a minimum. It'd awesome to do the same with our passive aggressiveness.
You know, I find that excuse rather amusing. Why aren't you jumping @Synkarin then? He did betray Glomdoring -and- steal domoths at the same time, but eh... I'm always the evil one. :P
:Politics: prevents that currently. When he was still in Halli he was as fair game as anyone.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
@Elanorwen: I wonder who that was, since I'm the only person I know of that checks the Prison on a regular basis, and I sure don't remember attacking you ten times in three days. I remember attacking you three times on one day, though.
Too bad Kio has every reason to hate Elanorwen ICly, miss traitory traitor.
(Note, here, that I said IC. I don't know you beyond IC, so I have no view of you as a person.)
Let's keep our exaggerations to a minimum. It'd awesome to do the same with our passive aggressiveness.
You know, I find that excuse rather amusing. Why aren't you jumping @Synkarin then? He did betray Glomdoring -and- steal domoths at the same time, but eh... I'm always the evil one. :P
Because you don't break a useful tool.
You can ask him about it - I don't think Kio and Synkarin have ever had a pleasant conversation, and there are often times when Kio has to remind himself that "accidentally" toading him in the middle of a domoth wouldn't really be overlooked.
Oh, and Kio's on orders from @Svorai not to mess with Gaudiguch. Unlike some, he's a dog that listens to his masters and knows how to follow the rules.
Marcella actively doesn't attack the things that she doesn't know has raided her planes, which means she quits raids whenever Serenwilde or Halli are up on the chopping block, even though she's a guild champion.
I kind of get bored and wish Seren or Halli *would* attack us so I would have an IC reason to care, but it's probably good for them that they don't - all of the posts about 'if you fight back they'll hit you harder' are pretty true.
How many novices are actually jumped? I know of one instance with Eodh that's already been accounted for but novices aren't usually jumped.
Ps, you guys had plenty of time to jump me in halli, but for some reason didn't. I definitely popped into faethorn by myself just to have everyone bail.
How many novices are actually jumped? I know of one instance with Eodh that's already been accounted for but novices aren't usually jumped.
Ps, you guys had plenty of time to jump me in halli, but for some reason didn't. I definitely popped into faethorn by myself just to have everyone bail.
Every time I saw you in Faethorn, I tried, heh. While you were in Halli, our schedules tended to be flipped. Not sure why the synch better now.
That and when you were around a lot more, I didn't have the confidence to take you on 1v1, so I'd try to get someone to help, which in turn would lead to either waiting too long and you'd be gone, or a big 'ole Faethorn scuffle.
As to novices - Eodh is the only one I've ever seen killed. And it happened exactly once, but those details have already been discussed. That said, I wish the little guy would get more involved. I've been trying to time RP things to happen while he's around, but he always poofs
(Yes, @Eodh - I wish you would have not logged out the moment Kio summoned the Coven. *peer*)
How many novices are actually jumped? I know of one instance with Eodh that's already been accounted for but novices aren't usually jumped.
Ps, you guys had plenty of time to jump me in halli, but for some reason didn't. I definitely popped into faethorn by myself just to have everyone bail.
Every time I saw you in Faethorn, I tried, heh. While you were in Halli, our schedules tended to be flipped. Not sure why the synch better now.
That and when you were around a lot more, I didn't have the confidence to take you on 1v1, so I'd try to get someone to help, which in turn would lead to either waiting too long and you'd be gone, or a big 'ole Faethorn scuffle.
As to novices - Eodh is the only one I've ever seen killed. And it happened exactly once, but those details have already been discussed. That said, I wish the little guy would get more involved. I've been trying to time RP things to happen while he's around, but he always poofs
(Yes, @Eodh - I wish you would have not logged out the moment Kio summoned the Coven. *peer*)
What constitutes a newbie/novice? Surely not the time limit on NOV status.
How many novices are actually jumped? I know of one instance with Eodh that's already been accounted for but novices aren't usually jumped.
Ps, you guys had plenty of time to jump me in halli, but for some reason didn't. I definitely popped into faethorn by myself just to have everyone bail.
Every time I saw you in Faethorn, I tried, heh. While you were in Halli, our schedules tended to be flipped. Not sure why the synch better now.
That and when you were around a lot more, I didn't have the confidence to take you on 1v1, so I'd try to get someone to help, which in turn would lead to either waiting too long and you'd be gone, or a big 'ole Faethorn scuffle.
As to novices - Eodh is the only one I've ever seen killed. And it happened exactly once, but those details have already been discussed. That said, I wish the little guy would get more involved. I've been trying to time RP things to happen while he's around, but he always poofs
(Yes, @Eodh - I wish you would have not logged out the moment Kio summoned the Coven. *peer*)
What constitutes a newbie/novice? Surely not the time limit on NOV status.
Search the forums. This is a discussion that happens a lot. The last one was pretty recent.
The point is.. there really is no clear line as to what defines a novice/newbie.
I'm a newbie in Lusternia. I've been killed plenty of times- and there has never been IC resolution to any of them. It doesn't MATTER, because it happens to be (mostly) free-pk zones or defendables- but you can't say you've only ever seen one novice killed.
Novices should experience death in both NPC and PC interactions. It's what gives you goals that eventually you'll attain. Or it'll cause you to quit.
The point is.. there really is no clear line as to what defines a novice/newbie.
I'm a newbie in Lusternia. I've been killed plenty of times- and there has never been IC resolution to any of them. It doesn't MATTER, because it happens to be (mostly) free-pk zones or defendables- but you can't say you've only ever seen one novice killed.
Novices should experience death in both NPC and PC interactions. It's what gives you goals that eventually you'll attain. Or it'll cause you to quit.
You've showed up to a few domoth fights, thus you aren't a newbie anymore and fair game, such is life.
The line I use is 'if you jump in fights you don't have to, you are a combatant and fair game'
It's a very fine line. There have been numerous instances where people have felt compelled to help their org upon request, gone to help, died instantly and been marked as a 'combatant' and thusly hunted endlessly.
It's really down to sensible judgment here. See a person turn up to fight regularly? Sure, go for it.
I generally just go with my namedb. If they are in it, they are treated as a combatant...
The point is.. there really is no clear line as to what defines a novice/newbie.
I'm a newbie in Lusternia. I've been killed plenty of times- and there has never been IC resolution to any of them. It doesn't MATTER, because it happens to be (mostly) free-pk zones or defendables- but you can't say you've only ever seen one novice killed.
Novices should experience death in both NPC and PC interactions. It's what gives you goals that eventually you'll attain. Or it'll cause you to quit.
You've showed up to a few domoth fights, thus you aren't a newbie anymore and fair game, such is life.
The line I use is 'if you jump in fights you don't have to, you are a combatant and fair game'
That doesn't constitute the lack of novicehood at all. I went to a domoth on my first day in game simply because someone announced it and I said "oh.. okay."
That's like saying you're not a novice if you've ever gone to Astral.
I'm not defending myself as a novice- I really care less and don't CONSIDER myself a novice- but I surely don't know anything about Lusternia still!
The point is.. there really is no clear line as to what defines a novice/newbie.
I'm a newbie in Lusternia. I've been killed plenty of times- and there has never been IC resolution to any of them. It doesn't MATTER, because it happens to be (mostly) free-pk zones or defendables- but you can't say you've only ever seen one novice killed.
Novices should experience death in both NPC and PC interactions. It's what gives you goals that eventually you'll attain. Or it'll cause you to quit.
You've showed up to a few domoth fights, thus you aren't a newbie anymore and fair game, such is life.
The line I use is 'if you jump in fights you don't have to, you are a combatant and fair game'
That doesn't constitute the lack of novicehood at all. I went to a domoth on my first day in game simply because someone announced it and I said "oh.. okay."
That's like saying you're not a novice if you've ever gone to Astral.
I'm not defending myself as a novice- I really care less and don't CONSIDER myself a novice- but I surely don't know anything about Lusternia still!
You're not a novice. A novice is defined in the game, mechanically.
You can be a newbie, though. However, very few people will consider you a newbie at this point with the frequency in which you fight in Domoths, revolts, etc.
Comments
I wasn't intending to say any more after posting my devil's advocate piece, but I couldn't pass up a comment on this one. I don't really intend to dispute the fact that people get emotionally involved in the game, and that losing repeatedly in PK can have a negative impact on their subsequent actions. But where newbies are concerned, using it as an excuse for less than perfect behavior is nothing but the worst sort of irresponsibility.
I have been in the exact same situation as you described before, so stressed out over a revolt that I had no time beyond to type TELL ATHREE I HAVE NO TIME TO DISCUSS THAT NOW. It also happened to be a revolt which lasted for over an hour. By the time it was over, and I had come down from the high, I was running late for an appointment, and had no choice but to insta log off. I can't even remember if we won or lost, because that's entirely irrelevant - my failure to respond in a timely fashion, and worse still, to notify him before I left, is nothing else but my failure alone. Surely, without the revolt, I would have been able to do a much better job, but I never once believed that the revolt was the reason I did a bad job, because I still could have done a good job with the revolt. The only reason I failed to do a good job in that situation was because I did not prioritize what should have been more important. I messaged him an apology and followed up with him on his questions later, but still, I will never say "it was because of so-and-so reason that I did this."
Just because something happened that resulted in you failing to do something, doesn't always mean that the cause of your failure is the event. Handling newbies can be stressful and thankless, but it is also important as well as rewarding in the long run. No one expects every newbie helper to be 100% perfect all the time, but pushing away the blame is not going to do anything but cause a repeat of the same failures. Do everyone a favour and take some time to think about what newbies really mean to you: important people who you want to nurture and teach the joy of the game to, or an excuse you can use to get what you want. "If you don't do this for me, I'm going to get so angry I might snap at the next newbie to come around." That's what you sound like, and it turns my stomach.
Hyperbole was the whole "all the fighters will leave, there will never be conflict ever, the game will become boring". Individuals might leave, reroll, orghop etc, But an entire half of the game? That's just the kind of doom-prophecy stuff that gets taken with a pinch of salt.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Well, Reah did specify "actual novices". You're a faux-novice. A fauvice, if you will.
Shaddus quoting Shaddus alt, Shadception.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Ps, you guys had plenty of time to jump me in halli, but for some reason didn't. I definitely popped into faethorn by myself just to have everyone bail.
That and when you were around a lot more, I didn't have the confidence to take you on 1v1, so I'd try to get someone to help, which in turn would lead to either waiting too long and you'd be gone, or a big 'ole Faethorn scuffle.
As to novices - Eodh is the only one I've ever seen killed. And it happened exactly once, but those details have already been discussed. That said, I wish the little guy would get more involved. I've been trying to time RP things to happen while he's around, but he always poofs
(Yes, @Eodh - I wish you would have not logged out the moment Kio summoned the Coven. *peer*)
What constitutes a newbie/novice? Surely not the time limit on NOV status.
What constitutes a newbie/novice? Surely not the time limit on NOV status.
Search the forums. This is a discussion that happens a lot. The last one was pretty recent.
The point is.. there really is no clear line as to what defines a novice/newbie.
I'm a newbie in Lusternia. I've been killed plenty of times- and there has never been IC resolution to any of them. It doesn't MATTER, because it happens to be (mostly) free-pk zones or defendables- but you can't say you've only ever seen one novice killed.
Novices should experience death in both NPC and PC interactions. It's what gives you goals that eventually you'll attain. Or it'll cause you to quit.
I'm a newbie in Lusternia. I've been killed plenty of times- and there has never been IC resolution to any of them. It doesn't MATTER, because it happens to be (mostly) free-pk zones or defendables- but you can't say you've only ever seen one novice killed.
Novices should experience death in both NPC and PC interactions. It's what gives you goals that eventually you'll attain. Or it'll cause you to quit.
You've showed up to a few domoth fights, thus you aren't a newbie anymore and fair game, such is life.
The line I use is 'if you jump in fights you don't have to, you are a combatant and fair game'
It's really down to sensible judgment here. See a person turn up to fight regularly? Sure, go for it.
I generally just go with my namedb. If they are in it, they are treated as a combatant...
That's like saying you're not a novice if you've ever gone to Astral.
I'm not defending myself as a novice- I really care less and don't CONSIDER myself a novice- but I surely don't know anything about Lusternia still!