Lusternia's Direction

Rami · October 2012

I already drifted away again, after what, maybe a month trying to play?

Lusternia seems to be very quiet and apathetic. There doesn't seem to be any conflict at all between the factions. Actually, what -are- your factions here? There are no lines drawn between what should be factions, no separation.

When I played, I was never once attacked by the opposition. There were no group battles that I ever saw. In short, there was nothing to hold my interest.

Now, I'm not saying that Lusternia is a bad game. The sheer amount of potential it has is outstanding. But, the potential is not fully used as it should be by the playerbase. Instead of creating ongoing and interesting storylines, everyone seems to strive to get along. This does not provide an engaging atmosphere for newer players. We need to see an active world in which we can get lost in.

Personally, I'd like to see Lusternia somehow foster dynamic conflict that includes a harsh atmosphere. The idea of anything can happen. I am not completely protected and coddled. People should be bashing their enemies' heads in occasionally.

Soraya · October 2012

Rami said:

I already drifted away again, after what, maybe a month trying to play?
Lusternia seems to be very quiet and apathetic. There doesn't seem to be any conflict at all between the factions. Actually, what -are- your factions here? There are no lines drawn between what should be factions, no separation.
When I played, I was never once attacked by the opposition. There were no group battles that I ever saw. In short, there was nothing to hold my interest.
Now, I'm not saying that Lusternia is a bad game. The sheer amount of potential it has is outstanding. But, the potential is not fully used as it should be by the playerbase. Instead of creating ongoing and interesting storylines, everyone seems to strive to get along. This does not provide an engaging atmosphere for newer players. We need to see an active world in which we can get lost in.
Personally, I'd like to see Lusternia somehow foster dynamic conflict that includes a harsh atmosphere. The idea of anything can happen. I am not completely protected and coddled. People should be bashing their enemies' heads in occasionally.

I, though not as experienced in the game as you might be, have to agree. I sense nothing but hugging and such between any given characters. Even in Magnagora, I suppose hugging is the new black? Perhaps if there were more incentive to kill someone besides, "You're on my plane and in a free PK zone." there would be more reasons to be less than friendly. I have already started to develop a somewhat harsh character in hopes to change a little bit at least within Magnagora.

A few ideas people can change this:
- Give city rewards for killing enemy of whatever.
- Less loss from deaths
- Perhaps our admin can instigate some racial tension or give reason for there to be?

I can tell you are correct that everyone gets along as my character has already stimulated some people's irritation from her forward attitude. Would be nice to see more conflict.

Saran · October 2012

Rami said:

I already drifted away again, after what, maybe a month trying to play?
Lusternia seems to be very quiet and apathetic. There doesn't seem to be any conflict at all between the factions. Actually, what -are- your factions here? There are no lines drawn between what should be factions, no separation.
When I played, I was never once attacked by the opposition. There were no group battles that I ever saw. In short, there was nothing to hold my interest.
Now, I'm not saying that Lusternia is a bad game. The sheer amount of potential it has is outstanding. But, the potential is not fully used as it should be by the playerbase. Instead of creating ongoing and interesting storylines, everyone seems to strive to get along. This does not provide an engaging atmosphere for newer players. We need to see an active world in which we can get lost in.
Personally, I'd like to see Lusternia somehow foster dynamic conflict that includes a harsh atmosphere. The idea of anything can happen. I am not completely protected and coddled. People should be bashing their enemies' heads in occasionally.

This may be at least partially related to the way events seem to run here I suppose.

A very basic overview I suppose...

Most commonly big events revolve around something big and bad coming to town to destroy us all, normally this is something external to all of the orgs and so, everyone just kinda groups up to take it down because everyone has the shared interest in not being devoured by a cosmic horror or the like. Also there generally don't seem to be many incentives for taking on an org other than your opposition.

It would be nice if there were a mechanic that quantified an org growing stronger and encouraged the strongest orgs to turn on each other after beating down the others.

Drayl · October 2012

Eventru said:

Draylor said:

Fix alliances and combat.

Everything else will then fall into place.

We don't make, code or produce alliances.

That's aaalll on you guys.

I would like there to be an ability to formally ally a certain player to an org, since you can formally enemy them. Even if the ally gets no partial bonus from it, novices can tell who is considered an ally by their org.

Ssaliss · October 2012

Estarra said:

So what's in those threads, what's your favorite (and doable) gold sink ideas?

Made a new discussion on these forums with links to old suggestions.

Kabina · October 2012

I am new to Lusternia and want to speak on this thread about two things, First my initial impressions of playing for two weeks, and secondly to give my opinion on ways in which to sink gold, and the items gained by gold can also sink. So without further ado...

Initial Thought

Upon entering Lusternia I thought the introductory tour was brief, it consisted of running through the area finding a spirit and killing it, I would much have liked a short introduction to essentials, or things I have found to be essential such as how Aetherway portals work, How to use a shop efficiently and so on. But when I stepped through the portal I found the community to be fantastic, I was greeted pretty much straight away with open arms and helped through the initial stages, (Including using the help system, which the tour did not help me with at all.) and to learn the basics of what skills are. After that I got to doing tasks and the collegium quests were pretty much awesome in that regard. Ever since then I have just learned from those around me which has been fantastic! And browsing a active forum helps.

The next point to make is that the event I joined in is fantastic, and I have never found myself without anything to do, when the undead are not being killed, the wheel is not moving, revolts and aetherflares are not happening, there is plenty to be getting on with, guild tasks, order tasks, just stuff like ikon collecting, quests, exploration! I hope it continues at this pace!

Gold Sink

Now as for gold sinks, what about offering a way to buy Ikons with gold as well as credits, this way people can sink gold into ikons and in return they can be used up in a game, hence creating the chance to buy more... Or have an open lottery system where people can have a book and hold their own lotteries, so in the system they offer as a reward a million gold for top spot, and set the ticket price to 1000, then the game takes a 100 gold fee per ticket... Not only can you invest 200k to potentially win one million, the game has also taken 20k out of the economy?

Occasionally hold maybe once every two weeks an event which consists of fighters, have a prearranged time. Then open books on the fighters who enter, that way you can bet on one of the fighters, if he loses the FFA you lose your bet. If he wins, you take the odds... benefit to this is if Estarra holds the books... Bookie always wins, or these place would not be open on the high street!

My two coppers.

Everiine · October 2012

I agree with many of Lothringen's points and disagree with a few of Janalon's.

First, I am always impressed by the amount of work that the Admin put in. Someone said that ChangeLog has really made that apparent, and I agree--a lot goes on behind the scenes to make sure things run smoothly.

I, however, hate the monthly and weekly promotions, along with all the new gimmicks. The focus of work used to be on creating the world we play in, interacting as Divine players with the orgs, and deepening the lore. Once IRE went into its corporatize-everything-mode, so many aspects of Lusternia cropped up that just scream "corporate money grab" (even when no money is involved). I applaud the Admin for working the ploys into the game lore somehow, but no matter how many bows are tied to it, it's still a silly gag. Ikons, curios, the Wheel, the dolls, none of it appeals to me because they serve no purpose and have no overall story that drives them. They simply exist to be gimmicks. Lusternia is better than gimmicks. I have been told, though, that these decisions aren't made by our admins, so nothing can be done about it, but this thread was created, so I voiced my opinion.

I'd like to see more Divine interaction to go along with the Admin interaction we've had on the OOC side of things. Divine action, without being forceful, can significantly spice up the game, encourage change and discourage stagnation.

Cyndarin · October 2012

I wish the constant barrage of new things would slow down. They have all been awesome but the volume of just random extras is getting overwhelming and I feel as though that effort could be put into refining existing mechanics.

Alondal · October 2012

I think, considering the world economy and Lusternia being a MUD, it appears to do fairly well for itself. So as a somewhat new player, I will offer what I can towards improvement:

o No more buffs. This just makes it a little bit harder for new players to get everything together. Someone mentioned more things like the Manse throne, but Lusternia has far more than enough of these.

o Complete the affliction lines and consider defence lines. This goes a long way towards understanding Lusternian combat for a newbie or a transfer.

o Consider a command for regular, non-Power aide citizens to view their own power input. Power is tough enough to figure out on newbies and this should only help.

o I'm guessing this is a no-go, but you might consider simplifying the silly Avechna system. I really get what it attempts to do, but it results in some humorous Prime combat situations. In my opinion, it would be better to just scrap it, but I suppose you put the system in to deal with less issues. I would say the best solution is just to split it up into soldiers (pkers) and civilians (non-comms), with the former receiving perks for being open PK and the latter keeping the Avechna system. You would have to work out any exploits, but it could allow for more Prime fun.

o Add "corpse" as a keyword to dead things. I don't know about Achaea, but Aetolia and Imperian did it so it must be possible to rework things within Rapture.

o I know you can just use triggers, but some kind of auto-feedbag would be nice. Someone mentioned making it a silly dingbat feedbag and that would still be awesome.

And I'm spent. I love Lusternia! You guys are great

Maellio · October 2012

Personally, I agree with the sentiments about improving new players' immersion and introduction into the game over complaints about complexity and neglected mechanics. Lusternia is, by its very nature, always going to tend towards complexity. The Admin and players all have different interests, strengths, and weakness - things will get built, refined, enforced, decried, and argued over til the sun goes out across the whole spectrum of mechanics and RP. And things can get lost and pushed to the wayside, but people can only do so much. Our Admin are rather amazing, but they're human.

And yes some of these additions will be 'gimmicks', but it would be frankly disingenuous to call them all gimmicks. Ikons certainly aren't, unless Zvoltz was secretly being ordered to add a cardgame into the game as some gimmick. And they're not without lore or flavour, certainly not if you play them and see how they act in a battle. And what counts as a needless gimmick anyway? Does Vengeance? Does designing? Do certain skills and guilds if the eternal cries can lead someone to believe? Worth is subjective, interest doubly so.

What I -would- like to see is improving the immersion and introduction of new players into this horridly complex and wonderful world we've all built. The middle and end have been progressing for years, but the start is almost comically behind. And I'm not personally equipped to offer wonderfully thought out answers [particularly at 2am], though I do think Svorai's got the right start of it. There is something for everyone in Lusternia, somewhere for everyone, and it would be nice if we could show them what 8 years of work has wrought.

And here's to hoping what I wrote was vaguely on topic when I re-read it tomorrow.

Estarra · October 2012

Kabina said:

I am new to Lusternia and want to speak on this thread about two things, First my initial impressions of playing for two weeks, and secondly to give my opinion on ways in which to sink gold, and the items gained by gold can also sink. So without further ado...

Initial Thought

Upon entering Lusternia I thought the introductory tour was brief, it consisted of running through the area finding a spirit and killing it, I would much have liked a short introduction to essentials, or things I have found to be essential such as how Aetherway portals work, How to use a shop efficiently and so on. But when I stepped through the portal I found the community to be fantastic, I was greeted pretty much straight away with open arms and helped through the initial stages, (Including using the help system, which the tour did not help me with at all.) and to learn the basics of what skills are. After that I got to doing tasks and the collegium quests were pretty much awesome in that regard. Ever since then I have just learned from those around me which has been fantastic! And browsing a active forum helps.

The next point to make is that the event I joined in is fantastic, and I have never found myself without anything to do, when the undead are not being killed, the wheel is not moving, revolts and aetherflares are not happening, there is plenty to be getting on with, guild tasks, order tasks, just stuff like ikon collecting, quests, exploration! I hope it continues at this pace!

Gold Sink

Now as for gold sinks, what about offering a way to buy Ikons with gold as well as credits, this way people can sink gold into ikons and in return they can be used up in a game, hence creating the chance to buy more... Or have an open lottery system where people can have a book and hold their own lotteries, so in the system they offer as a reward a million gold for top spot, and set the ticket price to 1000, then the game takes a 100 gold fee per ticket... Not only can you invest 200k to potentially win one million, the game has also taken 20k out of the economy?

Occasionally hold maybe once every two weeks an event which consists of fighters, have a prearranged time. Then open books on the fighters who enter, that way you can bet on one of the fighters, if he loses the FFA you lose your bet. If he wins, you take the odds... benefit to this is if Estarra holds the books... Bookie always wins, or these place would not be open on the high street!

My two coppers.

Glad to hear from a new player! We do have Wild Nodes every 2 weeks which is a regular event for fighters. I'm not really sure a betting system would work well (players could just make bets outside any system if they really want).

Regarding the intro, I think you do learn how to use a shop. I really, really don't want players to spend too much time in the intro. It hits a few key points (movement, communication, shops, fighting) but we really want players out of the intro as soon as possible to get into the game.

Estarra · October 2012

Kiradawea said:

The ability for players to join in on shaping the scene of the basin. To me, it feels like there haven't been meaningful player input in the political scene of the basin since Hai'Gloh. I don't know, perhaps I've missed instances, but that was the last event I recall that showed itself to be player initiated. I want that to still be possible. I want to be able to turn the Ebonglom Wyrdling back into Deb, or remove the Amaranth branding on Maeve, or build a sonic echolocator to help create travelling paths to the astrology planets. But these things seem impossible to get done unless you become an admin yourself, something I've almost given up at this point. I understand that a lot of work would go into creating these events, and accompanying areas even, but I do wish for it to be possible for a player to act and force an event, rather than just react to the events as they're presented.

Well, some things would be pretty unlikely in an RP sense (e.g., turning the Ebonglom Wyrdling into a furrikin). However, we would certainly be open to player initiatives to have some big goals. Keep in mind, though, that if it involves creating areas or new skills, etc., that it would be somewhat problematic and certainly not fast. But goals that are more purely RP would be more doable, just need to keep at it and make your goals known to the gods. Also, if goals are completely out of sync with direction and mythos, don't be surprised by unexpected results!

Estarra · October 2012

Lothringen said:

(Potentially) Unpopular opinion, read at own risk:

I think we need to move away from things like ikons, curios, and vengeance. This isn't meant to be a negative comment about these things themselves, or the people who worked hard to create them, but I feel that Lusternia's conflict mechanics have been neglected for so long in favour of "games within a game" that, really, have no effect or significance on the world outside of being fads and distractions.

I think the focus needs to be the game of Lusternia itself, not Lusternia's versions of Magic, Beanie Babies, and Mafia.

As Zvoltz said, the perception that we are focusing on something like ikons or curios as the expense of other development is really not true. That said, I would be interested in knowing what conflict mechanics we could improve upon. Conflict systems are the most difficult systems to pull off. One thing that can't happen is to have an ongoing, freeform system because that will just tire players and drive them away (we've gone through that dance before), which is why we've moved to a focus on aetherflares and village revolts and away from grueling plane bashing.

Anyway, one thing that I really liked about curios and ikons is that I have always wanted to have more quest rewards besides gold, especially for the larger honor quests. I never liked the idea of item or comm drops so thought this would be a really great addition.

Vengeance is a year old now and it was an idea by some of the volunteers whose excitement for it was really contagious. It turned out to be one of our favorite and most popular additions! I certainly can't promise we won't do more of the same if it comes up, but again don't think that means we're not doing anything else!

Estarra · October 2012

Rivius said:

Well, I think the only real suggestion (direction-wise) I can give now is to sort of hold back on releasing new orgs/skillsets/ guilds/making lusternia more complicated for a while. It's honestly a wonderful game with an amazing amount of variety to it, but it also has a steep learning curve and a lot for people to keep up with. I'm not saying 'never release anything new' - and from your last ustream we know new stuff is coming - but I just want it to slow down a little bit. I don't think we're ready for a lot of new stuff yet. I think we have a lot of content, and while it's all quite great, it needs some polishing up. I guess to sum up, I want to focus on sprucing up all we have now instead of introducing too many new things.

Also, Xenthos' stuff on warrior runes. -duck-

One thing I thought up, that might be outside of what you're looking for, is addition of more specific symptom lines here and there for certain things. Like for example, the different impales share a number of the same symptom lines. I can probably find other examples of things that I think should just be change or go because they make things more complicated than they need to be.

I'm not sure what you mean by "sprucing up" what we already have! That's a bit overly general to understand. Feel free to give particulars!

Regarding impale lines (or any other lines), you should start a separate thread on specifics as I don't exactly what you mean. I've certainly never heard of that complaint before but maybe it's something the envoys can pick up.

Estarra · October 2012

Svorai said:

I think Lusternia has made leaps and bounds in the right direction the last few years I've played. You have some real quality gods and volunteers who have managed so many quests, implemented so many new skills, games, features, squished bugs to irrelevance and all 'round made the game a lot more fun than when I first started playing.

The communication from Admin in recent months on the forums and Facebook has been awesome. I think this is the most important thing that needs to continue -- because your passion is our passion, and it's great to be able to meet in the middle.

My biggest gripe with Lusternia is that it is so enormous and intricate that it really is hard for new people to get into the game. By new, I don't mean IRE imports -- because at least they get basic concepts -- but never-played-MUD-before-what-is-this type people.

I would love to see an overhaul of the newbie induction system. Some people really need to be spoonfed, and I don't think that the few 'HINTS' in red text cut it. The Newtons Caverns quests are hard, and you're kicked out of the area too soon (in some cases) to finish them. I, at least, felt tense when I was in Lollyprin, hoping that I wouldn't gain too much xp so I could explore the area more.

There is so much potential for newbies to learn about races, other organisations, gods and history in this introductory area. Not a lot of people take the time to read the histories on the website -- and why should they? Shouldn't they be able to get this information readily in the game? There are help texts, sure, but it would be so much more fun and engaging if they could do mini-quests to learn different things that every person in Lusternia should know.

I'd love to see Collegiums reviewed, and become more of a community within a community instead of an aether and something you have to graduate quickly so you can start being relevant. Why should this process be rushed or end as soon as you complete six (fairly simple) quests? I wouldn't want the Collegium to be become a tedious affair that more capable people could just skip (as they do now, by completing the six quests), but allow real newbies the chance to stay there if they need the support. If you're ready, do what you need to and graduate -- without honours. Those who stay and really immerse themselves in the Collegium and complete all they are required to (not just six quests) would get honours. So it means something.

Anyway, I'll stop here. But yes. I'm of the mind that a focus on new players is more important than a focus on keeping existing players happy.

I completely agree about focus on new players! Again, I don't want a long newbie intro (frankly I wouldn't mind getting rid of it completely) but maybe we could extend the Newton entry level to 30.

I'd be interested in making the collegiums more of a community, if possible. Keep in mind adding new quests for each collegium is a bit of work. There are honours of sorts for collegiums insofar as you see where you've graduated. Maybe some other reward or achievement, though.

Estarra · October 2012

Lothringen said:

From where I stand, as a player, one of these things is being done, and one of them is not. It's a simple as that, really. What Svorai alluded to (though in a different context) was that the game was already extremely large, and complicated, and adding more elements on top of that when certain other elements are considered dysfunctional is not a favourable direction, in my opinion.

It's not my intention to offend anyone, or minimize their contributions--even if they're great contributions, I'm of the mind that what we have needs to be fixed before new things are added, and that's the direction I'd like to see the game go in.

I guess the thing is that we aren't aware of what "elements are considered dysfunctional" unless people tell us, which is one reason I start these threads every so often and recall we went through an enormously long process of having the players target the 'big issues' so we could fix them. In the end, while you may think there are some things that are dysfunctional and need fixing, we would need to know exactly what they are and what the solutions would be. It could very well be that you don't know specifics but just a general feeling that something needs to be done to some class or whatever, but that doesn't lend itself to finding a solution (even taking into account that not everyone may agree that what you consider is dysfunctional is truly dysfunctional). One example is monks, where we heard some complaints and when Roark investigated and talked to people, either they didn't understand how monks worked or there really wasn't an issue in the end.

Estarra · October 2012

Jhyii said:

Okay a direction I'd like to see for Lusternia to head in has more to do with the Player base then the Divine. Lusternia has Libraries and Stages and I think this is amazing and why does no one tell the newbies about these awesome things?

The guilds are wonderfully set up to teach us the basics of how to stand on our own two feet within the game mechanics but I'd like it if we were pushed in the direction of the basics of role playing too. From what I've seen of them? The Library and Stages are a good introduction to that.

Don't you think newbies are overwhelmed already that libraries and stages may just make them even more overwhelmed? Just asking!

Alacardael · October 2012

Estarra said:

Jhyii said:

Okay a direction I'd like to see for Lusternia to head in has more to do with the Player base then the Divine. Lusternia has Libraries and Stages and I think this is amazing and why does no one tell the newbies about these awesome things?

The guilds are wonderfully set up to teach us the basics of how to stand on our own two feet within the game mechanics but I'd like it if we were pushed in the direction of the basics of role playing too. From what I've seen of them? The Library and Stages are a good introduction to that.

Don't you think newbies are overwhelmed already that libraries and stages may just make them even more overwhelmed? Just asking!

I think it's less "make them read about libraries/stages", more of "tell them that libraries/stages actually exist and are awesome".

Kiradawea · October 2012

Estarra said:

Kiradawea said:

The ability for players to join in on shaping the scene of the basin. To me, it feels like there haven't been meaningful player input in the political scene of the basin since Hai'Gloh. I don't know, perhaps I've missed instances, but that was the last event I recall that showed itself to be player initiated. I want that to still be possible. I want to be able to turn the Ebonglom Wyrdling back into Deb, or remove the Amaranth branding on Maeve, or build a sonic echolocator to help create travelling paths to the astrology planets. But these things seem impossible to get done unless you become an admin yourself, something I've almost given up at this point. I understand that a lot of work would go into creating these events, and accompanying areas even, but I do wish for it to be possible for a player to act and force an event, rather than just react to the events as they're presented.

Well, some things would be pretty unlikely in an RP sense (e.g., turning the Ebonglom Wyrdling into a furrikin). However, we would certainly be open to player initiatives to have some big goals. Keep in mind, though, that if it involves creating areas or new skills, etc., that it would be somewhat problematic and certainly not fast. But goals that are more purely RP would be more doable, just need to keep at it and make your goals known to the gods. Also, if goals are completely out of sync with direction and mythos, don't be surprised by unexpected results!

How would you propose I make goals known to the gods? The plots newsboard (which seems to be missing from the nstat lineup)? Sending a prayer/message to a patron god? In that case who will I know to message? If I want to turn the Ebonglom Wyrdling back to his old self, could I just bother Zvoltz, even though ICly he has no strong relation with Ackleberry and its races? After all, I don't know what his role is in the havens (though knowing his responsibility for Ikons makes for good guesses). I recall that when Jeanne came to the basin, there was an actual mini-event involved to support her backstory, and that was awesome. But I would want more than these mini events. Something that actually changes the scene of the basin somehow. I wouldn't mind creating all the rooms myself if it meant that a player-initiated event would result in the discovery and ability to visit the Astrology planets, but I'm obviously reluctant to actually do so since there's no guarantee the rooms would be used, or if there'd even be possible to visit the planets.

Still, I'm very happy with these threads and the transparency they display. It makes it fun to get involved.

Svorai · October 2012

Estarra said:

Jhyii said:

Okay a direction I'd like to see for Lusternia to head in has more to do with the Player base then the Divine. Lusternia has Libraries and Stages and I think this is amazing and why does no one tell the newbies about these awesome things?

The guilds are wonderfully set up to teach us the basics of how to stand on our own two feet within the game mechanics but I'd like it if we were pushed in the direction of the basics of role playing too. From what I've seen of them? The Library and Stages are a good introduction to that.

Don't you think newbies are overwhelmed already that libraries and stages may just make them even more overwhelmed? Just asking!

That's true, but in some ways newbies struggle to understand how they can contribute in their first few weeks with us. As well as this, I think the important thing to note is that newbies aren't learning enough in the Collegiums before they're thrust into guilds.

Sure, we're overwhelming them, but eventually they'll have to be overwhelmed! There's a lot they need to know. As well as this, I think the feeling of being overwhelmed largely stems from the 'rushed' feeling of the newbie/collegium experience. Circle 21 + completing six (important, but) easy quests = you're prepared to join a guild as a novice? I don't think so. At least not now -- maybe once upon a time, but Lusternia is so vast... people need time to adjust and find their place.

The Collegiums teach us a few things:

How to hunt things and how to cure (and some newbies are freaked out just by that -- collegium curing involves only a few of the dozens of cures that they'll eventually require)
How to find certain areas in the org (like the bank, stage, etc... but it doesn't show them how to use them, or how they could contribute by using them. While it might be ambitious to suggest, I see the collegiums showing newbies how to use the stage -- at least watch a production and be told that they can write their own, and use the library -- at least read a short story [maybe about the lore of their org?] and tell them that they can write books too)
How to influence (yay, pretty simple)
How to contribute power (this one is also pretty good -- newbies learn how to be useful in these early days)
Learn some history (there's always room for this to be expanded, but instead of making it a collegium expansion, maybe provide mini quests in Newton, or in other neutral areas where newbies can ask denizens about history, races, gods, etc... In fact, this could be an area for everyone, even the Great Library. Imagine mini-quests where you can go up to a trill of Hallifax resting in the Library and request a lecture on the city.)
How to find your way around planes (pretty good as is)

Why should it be the guild's issue to teach newbies how to use banks, the post office, join clans and cartels, learn about designs, set their description, find suitable clothes, find and use enchantments, origami, figurines, gain essence and offer to gods at shrines? These things have (mostly) nothing to do with guild skills or guild lore. Shouldn't a newbie know about villages and that they revolt from time to time, that we fight heatedly over aetherbubbles, and they will have the opportunity to be part of that?

A collegium, like a real life college, should prepare people for actual work. When you leave it, you ought to be a certified non-newbie. And there's no rush, really! Why hurry out of the collegium? Why not spend time with your fellow newbies and learn all you need at your own pace?

In my opinion, the newbie/collegium experience needs a really big overhaul. It's here that we win and lose potential players. The game has grown so much -- new players should have the opportunity to be immersed in and be excited by all the different options there are for them in this game. Why limit them to bashing/influencing/power/exploring/history? That's not what Lusternia is about.

So... I'll go create a thread about this, because there's just too much to be said, and that's all I wanted to suggest 'direction-wise'. So, Estarra: thanks

Janalon · October 2012

Ssaliss said:

Janalon said:

I'd also love to see IRE officially endorse Mudlet to further promote mass sourcing of various player-created modules (i.e. tabbed chat, tabbed maps, affliction tracker) to help players across all platforms.

I just want to say no to that. Not because Mudlet is a bad client or anything like that, but because they should maintain their neutrality. Plus, they've spent plenty to develop their own client, so it would kinda be like shooting themselves in the foot.

Hey, I've been in Lusternia for four plus years now. That first year was entirely played through the standard IRE client with nothing more than a few aliases so I could manually heal/cure. That second year I managed to install an auto-sipper.

I nearly quit on several occasions because I realized how insufficient the IRE client was towards high-end bashing and combat. When I searched for alternatives, there were few user-fiendly clients for Mac, and absolutely no curing/healing systems.

After several forum posts on the topic, I was told 1) you'll need to code your own system, or 2) scrap your mac / run Windows in Boot Camp. There was no support for Mac users.

If it wasn't for a combination of Mudlet and M&M (and the supportive communities congregated around each)... I wouldn't be here today. Coding skills and forum-searching should not be a threshold requirement to play Lusternia.

It is absolutely in Lusternia's best interest to attract and support the new player. The IRE client is a flashy way to bring in new players. That mode of gameplay doesn't last for long. It isn't enough.

There is a way for Lusternia to promote clients / systems AND maintain neutrality by hosting information on the Lusternia Lore Wiki. This would be appropriate because the Wiki is mainly created/supported by the player community.

Essentially I would love to see links to a variety of mud clients (Mudlet included) and active systems (M&M included); a variety of "freeware" add-ons like Mudlet Mapper and tabbed chat; not to mention open source projects, like that Mantis curing system.

This information needs to be easily retrievable. Perhaps it would be appropriate to add something to the FAQ with links back to the wiki. Additionally the wiki should have the client / module / systems highly-visible by giving it priority atop that left-hand menu.

Anyway... just my two cents.

Janalon · October 2012

Why should it be the guild's issue to teach newbies how to use banks, the post office, join clans and cartels, learn about designs, set their description, find suitable clothes, find and use enchantments, origami, figurines, gain essence and offer to gods at shrines? These things have (mostly) nothing to do with guild skills or guild lore. Shouldn't a newbie know about villages and that they revolt from time to time, that we fight heatedly over aetherbubbles, and they will have the opportunity to be part of that?

Because player interaction is a far richer experience than anything the collegium could provide. Also it helps foster player relationships (inside or out of the mentorship mechanic).

Ushaara · October 2012

Hmm, perhaps more relevant to the 'improve collegiums' tangent the thread has taken, but I think tweaking the geography quest would allow for inclusion of some of what has been suggested here about good things for novices to know, without being any more overwhelming.

As an example, Hallifax's geography quest has you visit the following locations:

the Matrix
Corrections Institute
Research Lab Level A, Zone Two
The Magnolia Salon
Surveying the Transdimensional Flux Core

The Matrix and Corrections Institute are good locations for a novice to know, so I'd keep those (though unless the novice greets Lafu in the Corrections Institute, or reads our CGHELP GEOGRAPHY file, there's no overt connection to 'Hey, this is where you can sell pigeons for easy gold!')

The next two locations though are pretty much as good as random locations in the initial maze that is Hallifax to a novice and really, nothing aside from 'Oh, the city has research labs/an art gallery' is learned when they find the room.

The last location is a bit better in that it is at least relevant to the city's power quest, but there's no connection to that location for the novice until they are doing the city power quest.

For an improved geography quest in Hallifax, I'd suggest:

the Matrix (nexus)
the Corrections Institute (vermin)
Auditorium of the Grand Hallifaxian Opera House (stage)
the Library of Universal Knowledge (library)
Overlooking the Transdimensional Demiplane generator (arena)
the Portals of Hallifax (aetherspace/aethershops)

When a novice "action verb" 's their geography item in each room, it could trigger a reaction to highlight why the room is important. Something like:

Corrections Institute:
Exasperated, Lafu Longplume says to you, "Pigeons! They're everywhere, man! When you're finished tuning that instrument for Ambassador Horotep, I'll gladly pay you for their corpses."

Auditorium of the Grand Hallifaxian Opera House:
Taking a quick break from rehearsals, a young trill ingenue says to you, "Ah, here on Ambassador Horotep's behalf? Pass on my regards, and let him know that our next play will soon be ready for his viewing!"

The reaction in the Portals room could capture the busy airport feel/'Catch Me If You Can' image of an aetherpilot surrounded by beautiful aether-air hostesses etc.

Rivius · October 2012

Janalon said:

Ssaliss said:

Janalon said:

I'd also love to see IRE officially endorse Mudlet to further promote mass sourcing of various player-created modules (i.e. tabbed chat, tabbed maps, affliction tracker) to help players across all platforms.

I just want to say no to that. Not because Mudlet is a bad client or anything like that, but because they should maintain their neutrality. Plus, they've spent plenty to develop their own client, so it would kinda be like shooting themselves in the foot.

Hey, I've been in Lusternia for four plus years now. That first year was entirely played through the standard IRE client with nothing more than a few aliases so I could manually heal/cure. That second year I managed to install an auto-sipper.

I nearly quit on several occasions because I realized how insufficient the IRE client was towards high-end bashing and combat. When I searched for alternatives, there were few user-fiendly clients for Mac, and absolutely no curing/healing systems.

After several forum posts on the topic, I was told 1) you'll need to code your own system, or 2) scrap your mac / run Windows in Boot Camp. There was no support for Mac users.

If it wasn't for a combination of Mudlet and M&M (and the supportive communities congregated around each)... I wouldn't be here today. Coding skills and forum-searching should not be a threshold requirement to play Lusternia.

It is absolutely in Lusternia's best interest to attract and support the new player. The IRE client is a flashy way to bring in new players. That mode of gameplay doesn't last for long. It isn't enough.

There is a way for Lusternia to promote clients / systems AND maintain neutrality by hosting information on the Lusternia Lore Wiki. This would be appropriate because the Wiki is mainly created/supported by the player community.

Essentially I would love to see links to a variety of mud clients (Mudlet included) and active systems (M&M included); a variety of "freeware" add-ons like Mudlet Mapper and tabbed chat; not to mention open source projects, like that Mantis curing system.

This information needs to be easily retrievable. Perhaps it would be appropriate to add something to the FAQ with links back to the wiki. Additionally the wiki should have the client / module / systems highly-visible by giving it priority atop that left-hand menu.

Anyway... just my two cents.

The wiki currently lists publicly available systems: http://wiki.lusternia.com/Systems

The old website used to also list various free clients, though the new one does not. That could easily be added back.

Truthfully though, a lot of what you're suggesting sounds like it's more on us as a community than something the administration has to tackle. We have various scripts and the like available in the mechanics corner, and should be working to build that content up for people to make a selection from. It's just on us to point them to these available resources, which really aren't difficult at all to find.

What I do find worrying is that we don't really have a public, free system anymore. I think if we had something hyper user-friendly and sufficiently competent, it could really, really help the game as a whole. Perhaps we can participate in a community project where we share code toward building a community system that can easily be ported to the most popular clients.

One thing that's always bugged me is that one requires expert discernment to competently keep track of their pipes, potions and magiclist. It makes it a bit tricky to code for people who can't yet afford these things. In a perfect world, pipelist, potionlist and magiclist would be base commands. Though, I understand that's debatable and probably not something we can change now.

Ssaliss · October 2012

Re: systems, what I miss most is just a list of triggers and their corresponding afflictions (although affmessages have helped that considerably). I have my own list, but it's woefully incomplete. I have seen other lists as well, but they tend to be both incomplete and horribly outdated.

Rivius · October 2012

Alright, I'll attempt to compile a list in a thread, though this will take a long time to organize.

Edit: Actually, is there a chance we can remove the hour edit limit and character limit for this?

Draylor · October 2012

Rivius said:

Alright, I'll attempt to compile a list in a thread, though this will take a long time to organize.

Edit: Actually, is there a chance we can remove the hour edit limit and character limit for this?

Might be easier to just provide a link to a html file in your dropbox, you know.

Estarra · October 2012

Kiradawea said:

Estarra said:

Kiradawea said:

The ability for players to join in on shaping the scene of the basin. To me, it feels like there haven't been meaningful player input in the political scene of the basin since Hai'Gloh. I don't know, perhaps I've missed instances, but that was the last event I recall that showed itself to be player initiated. I want that to still be possible. I want to be able to turn the Ebonglom Wyrdling back into Deb, or remove the Amaranth branding on Maeve, or build a sonic echolocator to help create travelling paths to the astrology planets. But these things seem impossible to get done unless you become an admin yourself, something I've almost given up at this point. I understand that a lot of work would go into creating these events, and accompanying areas even, but I do wish for it to be possible for a player to act and force an event, rather than just react to the events as they're presented.

Well, some things would be pretty unlikely in an RP sense (e.g., turning the Ebonglom Wyrdling into a furrikin). However, we would certainly be open to player initiatives to have some big goals. Keep in mind, though, that if it involves creating areas or new skills, etc., that it would be somewhat problematic and certainly not fast. But goals that are more purely RP would be more doable, just need to keep at it and make your goals known to the gods. Also, if goals are completely out of sync with direction and mythos, don't be surprised by unexpected results!

How would you propose I make goals known to the gods? The plots newsboard (which seems to be missing from the nstat lineup)? Sending a prayer/message to a patron god? In that case who will I know to message? If I want to turn the Ebonglom Wyrdling back to his old self, could I just bother Zvoltz, even though ICly he has no strong relation with Ackleberry and its races? After all, I don't know what his role is in the havens (though knowing his responsibility for Ikons makes for good guesses). I recall that when Jeanne came to the basin, there was an actual mini-event involved to support her backstory, and that was awesome. But I would want more than these mini events. Something that actually changes the scene of the basin somehow. I wouldn't mind creating all the rooms myself if it meant that a player-initiated event would result in the discovery and ability to visit the Astrology planets, but I'm obviously reluctant to actually do so since there's no guarantee the rooms would be used, or if there'd even be possible to visit the planets.

Still, I'm very happy with these threads and the transparency they display. It makes it fun to get involved.

Praying to a god and otherwise contacting them RP wise is a good start. However, if you can show a true commitment to the project rp-wise, that would go a long way. Start a clan devoted to the project, write a treatise about it, post on newsboards (public, city, guild) about it, put yourself on the line by roleplaying even if you know nothing will happen. Be creative! Contacting the admin OOCly should be a last resort only after you've made these sorts of RP efforts.

Kiradawea · October 2012

So contact a divine ICly once you have a bit of proof of effort, and avoid contacting them OOCly if possible. Did I understand you correctly? I do have a sizeable amount of information written in a "demi-elemental-bible" that I could clean up and work on publishing, but then I have another question on the order of approach.

One of the ideas involve the construction of a psionic echolocator. Should I write up a book on the theory behind the project, go raise and pester one of the Kepheran Queens until a god comes around to possess and discuss the issue, or should I pray to Zvoltz and ask if he sees anything glaringly faulty with the project.

I suppose my main worry is putting in several hours of research and writing, and then be told "silly ferret. Psionics doesn't use wave theory", and then have to scrap all and start over.

Cyndarin · October 2012

One thing I really want to see, and will be a huge benefit to envoys and equalizing the roller coaster that is balance, is more transparency as far as damage vs mobs goes. Something (I know, citing another IRE is bad but it's immensely useful) Aetolia does is show damage done to mobs. We already know damage types, but what we don't know is exact dps, or what percentages the various mob weaknesses represent. So what we end up with is this gaping expanse of bashing disparity between classes, and a big gray area in between the extremes of Paladin and Shadowdancer/Nihilist. Things don't have to be the exact same, I'm not asking for complete DPS equality, but....kind of close or at least everyone being competitive would be nice, and what's more, it should be that way simply for the benefit of the players and the game. I won't go into the myriad of reasons, but I can't help but think one of the reasons we are seeing a boom in Celest and drop off in guilds like the SDs is because the disparity is absolutely massive. People don't want to pick an uphill essence grind when they can have the huge benefits of warrior with divinus or staves that can be tuned and ignore damage resistances. I'm about as endgame bashing I can get....I've milked every damage boost I can get my hands on, and I even use a non guild specific bashing skill exclusive to only Ascendants....and you can put be up against Xenthos or Kelly and I get annihilated. Not like...slightly outpaced which would be okay. Absolutley bulldozed.

Personally I have some guild specific ideas (no idea if they'll fly) to kind of bring bashing up to par, but it would be nice to see the game addressed as a whole, rather than report and a prayer that they are creative/not too complicated enough to get approved.

Bashing fae would be awesome. I'M JUST SAYING.

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