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  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,639 Transcendent
    edited September 2016
    So, I do have a lot of baggage regarding Jqueen that hasn't come up in recent times but is glaringly visible in the Event Scrolls section of the forums here. I -do- play a deliberately flippant character, so I suppose I should've seen it coming -- but, wrong as it may be, it feels like a very pointed, absolute smackdown when the God you've just offered 100k esteem to finally makes an appearance...and gives you a 12-day truedisfavour (which is, I think for most, a huge deterrent to even wanting to log in (especially in those pre-overhaul days)) for being 'impolite' in a prayer asking for Patronage. Honestly -- I don't remember the exact contents or circumstance of that day -- I may be missing an important nuance here -- maybe I was a lot more rude than I thought? But how am I OR my character supposed to react to what seems, in fact, tyrannical and heavyhanded punishment?

    At the time, my impulse overrode sense, and became that Event Scroll. As I look back on it, I can say I'm mostly over it? I even wrote and performed a lecture on the Hallifaxian stage dedicated to Jadice a few years after the fact in an attempt to maturely and philosophically explain my position on shard-Elder relationships -- which was (because I had zero indication that Jadice ever watched it) presumably ignored. So how should Maligorn react to Jadice today, if She ever makes an appearance?

    Beyond hopefully getting answers to the above, the question I'm trying to express now is...is there such thing as healthy adversity towards Gods that your character is opposed to?

    image
  • SylandraSylandra Friend of Dog Member Posts: 4,206 Transcendent
    Something I've noticed across the board is that adversity towards gods in your own org is always more tense and stressful than adversity with gods in foreign orgs. You're supposed to be opposed to foreign gods. You're supposed to be aligned with, or at least supportive of, the gods in your own org. (That isn't always how things shake out, but something to consider - if you're more supportive of foreign gods than you are of your own gods, it might be indicative that your mindset better suits another org and their pantheon.)

    In some ways this is, I think, like having a problem with a player in your org. You could make a big fuss about the player being someone you don't like, and the end result will probably be drama and civil unrest in your org. Do we need drama? Do we benefit from drama? Not really. Alternatively, you can politely avoid the person and disdain them in a way that doesn't attract or demand their attention. The IC dislike can still exist, but it doesn't demand a larger audience, and it doesn't necessitate any actions from the disliked party. Does that make sense?
    Fyler said:
    Sylandra has a very signature (and somewhat twisted) sense of humor
  • CrekCrek Member Posts: 192 Expert
    Manteekan said:
    To be fair, I hate you all, My only reward is getting to zap everyone. 

    Just to kind of touch on things I'm seeing discussed here, while it is fine to hate a Divine ICly, and it makes for great RP, just know there should always be boundaries. We aren't asking you to only ever have positive RP with us, but just know your limits. I think the majority of where this part of Lisaera's post comes from, however, is when it is taken OOC, or when the Divine, as a whole, are faulted for things that have or have not happened (i.e. being able to visit Nirvana). 99.9% of the time it is either out of our hands or FAR FAR beyond what capabilities we have behind the scenes. 

    And just to reiterate, I will end you all! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!
    But we just want to be your friend! Don't you love us yet? :(
    The Divine voice of Ianir the Anomaly echoes in your head, "You are a ray of sunshine in a sea of 
    depression. I just wanted you to know that."
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Three Lakes, WIMember Posts: 2,755 Transcendent
    Some of my all time favorite interactions with @Lisaera were when She was absolutely furious with Ev. It wasn't, however, a conflict between Her and Ev, at least not directly; more like a conflict between his past and Her expectations of the future. There wasn't any zapping involved and no antagonistic actions on Ev's part (he was trying to atone), but the fury and hatred being directed at Ev was pretty awesome. Because of the way the conflict was set up I didn't take any of it personally (even though I was shaking while trying to type!), and thoroughly enjoyed the reaming and threats.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    Glomdoring has such a healthy hate for Lisaera we gave her a pretty title: the Silver Hag, which is, in my humble Wyrd-biased opinion, more polite than Grey Crone! <3

    /me and my 2 cents on healthy faux enmity towards Gods from an IC standpoint!
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,736 Transcendent
    I have never really liked the Silver Hag thing.  Just seems unnecessary to me.  Is Lisaera going to think we are all her friends if we call her Lady Lisaera (incidentally, this is what Viravain 1 instructed us to call her, and Xenthos has never done anything different)?  Respect is not indicative of anything other than an acknowledgement of the power of that individual and that you could be smooshed at any point.
    image
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    Well, I've never called her Silver Hag to her face(not that I remember!). I mostly used it for flavor (and...color) for inter-Glom conversations and posts. It's nice to see others pick up on it, but no one's trying to convince anyone else otherwise to address her(or any Divine) as anything your character isn't accustomed to. :)
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • TremulaTremula the Fate's choice for Drocilla Member Posts: 2,466 Transcendent
    Jadice said:
    Maligorn said:
    [...]

    [I]s there such thing as healthy adversity towards Gods that your character is opposed to?
    Absolutely, and as Sylandra points out above, it's considerably easier with gods that are not aligned with your organisation. 

    When you're opposing gods in Lusternia (whether individually because you disagree with their philosophies or actions, or overall, because you have a point to make about Elder-shard relations), you need to be much more diligent in roleplaying a character that exists in a world in which powerful, capricious gods actually exist. You, the player, know that I, the admin, am restricted in certain ways, whether by decency, rules, or reality: I can't delete your character, or curse you forever, or make every other player you've interacted with forget you ever existed, or torture you with indescribable pain. Maligorn the character, though - he lives in a world in which all of these things are conceivable, and you should roleplay accordingly; i.e., be terrified of our direct wrath.

    If you choose to actively oppose gods, you should do so in ways that make sense in the context outlined above; opposing their followers, preaching against their philosophies and influence, and generally working to hinder their greater goals in/for the world. Doing it this way will be a richer, more rewarding experience, and might even be fun enough for us to engage with you in an RP-based way (as opposed to just zapping you). 
    As someone who has actively snuck into Serenwilde/@Lisaera's Realm to spy, made a fabulous tapestry showing Her demise, and in turn been maggoted, I'll have to say that it was much more fun to be able to do a series of increasingly ridiculous ways that She could have Her image desecrated in a public forum. My original idea was a bumbling pin-up girl style whose problems were fixed by super-awesome pin-up girl Drocilla, but alas, I had to make do with stabby stab since Lusternia is a PG-13 environment.

    Never once have I ever felt that Lisaera had an issue with me OOCly, and since designs containing a Divine's actual name and depiction have to be approved by Them, She had every chance to strike it down and send me a message saying 'I like the idea, but I'm uncomfortable with how you portrayed this particular piece. If you'd like to try again, I'd be more willing to work with [her own anti-Lis idea]'. But She let it through, and I got maggoted, zapped, and worldmoted at, and that interaction has carried over into nearly every interaction we've had since, colouring both of our views of each others character.

    I've wanted to talk about this experience since she posted the blog, but I wasn't sure how until Jadice put out this point, because I wasn't sure how to tie it in as elegantly as she did. Another thing to remember is that while you and the God(dess) you're opposing may understand that there are no hard feelings, you have to work doubly hard to make sure the masses will not take your RP-induced rage and take it to levels out of control. The Mob Mindset (herd mentality) is something that you can't always control, but always think about the consequences your actions could have before you do something like this. It's why I like the tapestry, personally, because if you have it created and hung somewhere, you are actively choosing to show off your anti-Lisaeran side and anyone who sees it an lets Her know will mean that you've created that situation for yourself. But I'm on a tangent, now.

    Case in point: Anyone who volunteers their free time, love, and energy into creating something for you shouldn't be made to feel as if their energy is wasted. Healthy criticisms and honest feedback will go much farther than shouting obscenities and making them quit. Worse, the more gods that quit because of unhealthy interactions with player bases, the fewer Ephemerals want to become RP-gods. I adore all of the Divine who keep the game I churned some of my favourite character concepts from alive, and still jump a little in excitement every time I see they use some of their hard-earned time to interact with me. 

    (@Darvellan I hope you don't think my being frosty at your cat/Celest is because of you, you're the bees knees)
                          * * * WRACK AND ROLL AND DEATH AND PAIN * * *
                                         * * * LET'S FEEL THE FEAR OF DEATH AGAIN * * *
              * * * WE'LL KILL AND SLAUGHTER, EAT THE SLAIN * * *
      * * * IN RAVAGING WE'LL ENTERTAIN * * *

    Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
  • ArienArien Member Posts: 231 Expert
    As a former Avatar of @Lisaera, who made some grand mistakes in leaving Her, I can agree with what She has written about the hard work it takes, and knowing that players can be cruel about the IG intentions of a god. Gods, despite their namesake are not perfect - They are our volunteers! They work so hard to be, and I know that as a player it is not 'just about me.' Sometimes, I have felt like I was attention-mongering for certain RP, and I have learned that this is a no-no. My 18 year old self has now gotten over that phase. And I am totally apologetic that you in particular, big L, had to deal with that.

    OOCly, I have never come to regret Her for knowing what should be done for my mistakes in RP and OOC, but sometimes it was hard to watch, because I love Her character so much.  Sometimes, there have been tears, not out of frustration but out of entirely wishing I had never done that stupid thing.

    Knowing the past interactions and feeling the difference, the alienation was all apart of the RP, the vast difference and duality of Lisaera as a character was definitely made known in these interactions with Arien. As much as I would love to change not leaving Her, as much as I would love to be back in a position of loving Her and helping her out - It may not be possible due to my bad decisions. But, as a player, I can separate and respect the caution and the understanding that things are different now.

    I felt like logging in onto the forums after reading the blog, and just stating that. I know sometimes players actions OOCly can come across self-serving, and I wanted to make sure that I just wrote something to show that I understood.

    To me, God RP between mortals is my bread and butter. It is my favorite thing, but as a player I am always afraid that my reputation is tarnished by my stupid decisions. I don't know how to bridge the gap between how sorry I am IG and how really sorry I am OOC, because there is always this wondering like 'Do they know how bad I feel? Should I send them a message? I didn't want them to be mad at me. I still really care about their advancement as a God, and character.'

    How would we do that as a player?
    Her storm-coloured eyes a muted blue, Lisaera, the Silver Goddess says, "Only sorrow can come from a rotting thought, My child, just like roots that have been drowned. You are a paragon of the wisdom I would see spread throughout the Serenwilde, but even the strongest minds must find release."
    -
    A shimmering liquid appears in your inventory smelling sweetly of something carbonated. It vanishes in a puff of silver smoke seconds later.
    -
    I write things
  • IleeinIleein Member Posts: 630 Mythical
    Anyone can be frosty to a cat. Turnabout is fair play, the little feline sociopaths.
    Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
  • TalanTalan Member Posts: 1,000 Transcendent
    It's an interesting point made about the baggage of previous incarnations of a god. I wonder if the gods have some kind of persistent, personal log that they can just write notes to themselves in?

    I like the 'clean slate' approach, but it's not always feasible.

    I'm not really aware of any 'campaigns' against any gods. I do wonder if maybe gods shouldn't be able to eavesdrop to the extent that they can. I imagine they hear a lot of general ooc bitching that could easily be taken personally when it wasn't necessarily meant like that. I'm sure you guys talk plenty of crap about us too. :hushed:
    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • IleeinIleein Member Posts: 630 Mythical
    Talan said:
    It's an interesting point made about the baggage of previous incarnations of a god. I wonder if the gods have some kind of persistent, personal log that they can just write notes to themselves in?

    I like the 'clean slate' approach, but it's not always feasible.

    I'm not really aware of any 'campaigns' against any gods. I do wonder if maybe gods shouldn't be able to eavesdrop to the extent that they can. I imagine they hear a lot of general ooc bitching that could easily be taken personally when it wasn't necessarily meant like that. I'm sure you guys talk plenty of crap about us too. :hushed:
    For this reason, I generally try to be nice in whatever OOC clan I'm using to peanut-gallery an ongoing event-- I never know when a god is keeping a close eye on me personally, and even if I'm feeling a little peevish about something, it's usually just the heat of the moment and nobody needs to suffer that. OTOH I do try to mention when I'm finding something fun, and I know for a fact gods appreciate good peanut-gallery commentary as much as we do.
    Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor Member Posts: 1,190 Transcendent
    I agree 100% with what @Sylandra said about adversity toward your own org's divine being the most stressed. From a player-side experience, it's certainly the most 'un-fun' for all involved when that adversity bleeds out to have org-wide consequences.

    While there were other factors that came in to it, Elostian's departure from Hallifax was a hard lesson in the consequences of persistent player negativity toward a divine. As Talan said, I don't think there was any organised 'campaign' against him, and the negativity resulted more from a clash of personalities and beliefs about Hallifax's direction that led to frustration on both admin/player sides.

    As Ushaara I didn't have a good relationship with him, but while I'd like to think that I was always grudgingly respectful in character, I know that there was certainly more that could have been done to temper the negativity he would have overheard from myself and others. The lasting impression for me from the manner of his exit was, "F*&k, we've just driven an admin from the game..."

    Lesson? Appreciate the volunteers who make this game, and don't run them off!
  • PhoebusPhoebus tu fui, ego eris. Member Posts: 1,888 Transcendent
    Ileein said:
    Talan said:
    It's an interesting point made about the baggage of previous incarnations of a god. I wonder if the gods have some kind of persistent, personal log that they can just write notes to themselves in?

    I like the 'clean slate' approach, but it's not always feasible.

    I'm not really aware of any 'campaigns' against any gods. I do wonder if maybe gods shouldn't be able to eavesdrop to the extent that they can. I imagine they hear a lot of general ooc bitching that could easily be taken personally when it wasn't necessarily meant like that. I'm sure you guys talk plenty of crap about us too. :hushed:
    For this reason, I generally try to be nice in whatever OOC clan I'm using to peanut-gallery an ongoing event-- I never know when a god is keeping a close eye on me personally, and even if I'm feeling a little peevish about something, it's usually just the heat of the moment and nobody needs to suffer that. OTOH I do try to mention when I'm finding something fun, and I know for a fact gods appreciate good peanut-gallery commentary as much as we do.
    I feel like as long as negative comments in a stressful event situation are a) kept reasonable and b) about the situation and not the people running it, one shouldn't feel too much like they can't express themselves in their OOC clans. Really as long as you're keeping a good attitude, I don't think it's going to be taken personally if you dislike how something is going. I think the idea isn't so much that you should never ever say when you're unhappy, but more that when you do, you express it in a way that isn't hostile.

    Gallant: "I sure wish we didn't have to collect essence every time." vs. Goofus: "omfg why do these PEOPLE make us ALWAYS get essence THIS SUCKS! Why do gods never think about our feelings?!"

    (Now I want to make Goofus & Gallant style posters for Hallifax...)
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,303 Transcendent
    Phoebus said:

    (Now I want to make Goofus & Gallant style posters for Hallifax...)
    I'm still accepting submissions for the art exhibition.
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,614 Transcendent
    All I got from that is that @Iosai is the best. And that @Zvoltz wears a thong.
  • UshaaraUshaara Schrödinger's Traitor Member Posts: 1,190 Transcendent
    Those hours read like the curse of a GMT timezone.
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    These are fuuuuuuuuuun.
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • ShaddusShaddus His Imperial Altness Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,622 Transcendent
    edited September 2016
    I have to admit that I misread Lisaera's at first, and thought certain admin were angry that mortal players would criticize the work that admin do. It wasn't until later that I find out people are rude enough to send angry, hateful ooc messages and tells.

    Even I'm not that bad.
    2017/04/23 00:29:14 - Nefara honoured Shaddus for: For his dedication to the Earthen Lords and Lady, 
    and willingness to assist our young Pupils. Despite his choosing to not progress himself further, he 
    still works for the Geomancers, and the Engine, in any way he is capable. Also comes with a healthy 
    dose of rebellion, to ensure us of the Council can not be too relaxed.
  • ShaddusShaddus His Imperial Altness Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,622 Transcendent
    The best part of Dro's blog is understanding some of the references and things she mentioned Mag doing.


    So.....tell us about this gang sign :)
    2017/04/23 00:29:14 - Nefara honoured Shaddus for: For his dedication to the Earthen Lords and Lady, 
    and willingness to assist our young Pupils. Despite his choosing to not progress himself further, he 
    still works for the Geomancers, and the Engine, in any way he is capable. Also comes with a healthy 
    dose of rebellion, to ensure us of the Council can not be too relaxed.
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    The gang sign involves butt-spelling F A I N and P O W E R.
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • EldanienEldanien Member Posts: 369 Gifted
    ... I always thought it was 'buttmunch'.  Hm.

  • ShaddusShaddus His Imperial Altness Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,622 Transcendent
    Don't hate us just because you ain't us.
    2017/04/23 00:29:14 - Nefara honoured Shaddus for: For his dedication to the Earthen Lords and Lady, 
    and willingness to assist our young Pupils. Despite his choosing to not progress himself further, he 
    still works for the Geomancers, and the Engine, in any way he is capable. Also comes with a healthy 
    dose of rebellion, to ensure us of the Council can not be too relaxed.
  • DrocillaDrocilla Member, Gods Posts: 430 Divine
    @Iosai is the best
    @Zvoltz does wear a thong and we often make him strip and twerk
    This is the GMT curse @Ushaara
    @Shaddus, okay, you cross fingers of one hand, do the victory sign with the other, show those off with attitude, tap your chest twice, kiss your fist, and blow it away
    @Eldanien I think you're seeing things, shh

  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,622 Transcendent
    The crow perched atop Avechna's head was epic. It would have been if you sent your nighthawks, too, @Drocilla! Incidentally, does @Lisaera have an official bird?
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • DrocillaDrocilla Member, Gods Posts: 430 Divine
    Yes @Siam, it's a silvery fruit bat
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