Best Of
Re: Daily Credit Feedback
I think this 2-hour-thing needs to go away. Remove the firm goal. Readjust. Different players will get things at different rates, and that's okay. Focus on making sure that players who are not Big Spenders can make progress towards the daily ticks; make it more inclusive. What's worse: that some people get their dailies in 30 minutes, or that some feel that the hurdle is so large they don't even try?
I do think that the earlier tick for hunting and influencing will help, as well as lowering the tiers.
Why not add a tick for watching 10 minutes worth of plays? Can only get one of these per weave, but could encourage watch-parties.
Have a tick for participating in a play recording for 10+ minutes.
Add a tick for submitting a design (note: not approval, because that comes at a random time). First time a design is submitted the DesignedBy person gets a tick.
I don't know... it just feels like this insistence on two hours *for everyone* is a problem, because that is not possible with the current design...
Xenthos
7
Re: Daily Credit Feedback
Orael said:What it means is that if 3 quests are getting your 20 daily credits in 30-40 minutes, we need to change those ratings to reduce their credit rewards. The goal is to get people logged in and playing for 2 hours. We've been pretty open about this two-hour requirement from the beginning.Xenthos said:Orael said:We can't have it faster than that for anyone and we think it's unreasonable to have it longer for those that aren't decked out.What does this mean? I have 7cr, 11cr, and 4cr quests scoped out that I can do in 10 minutes or less each. If I just do them I can get my dailies done in 30-40 minutes. I intentionally slow myself down by getting things other ways (hunting ticks for family honour, etc). These quests involve a lot of running around, but because I have a high celerity and a lot of curio travel artifacts / other blixes, I can pop wherever I need to go pretty quickly and it takes a fraction of the time & effort for me to do these quests than others.I think that this "balance to the fastest someone can possibly do it" is doomed to failure, because if you balance to the top it will take everyone else many, many more than 2 hours.
We can look into the other things - we can certainly adjust influencing tiers if it's really that much worse off than bashing.
Influencing is MUCH slower.
If you rebalance quest rewards based on people having fast travel / fast killing of quest-required NPCs, then you drastically slow down the people who don't and make their life worse. I don't think it is reasonable to "punish" people for not having specific artifacts (obviously not your intent, but I am not sure how else players could be expected to take that).
It simply is not possible to say "it will be 2 hours for everyone" unless you delete all current daily credit options and just give people 1 credit every 6 minutes when not in a manse. I think the better goal is to say "for our average player this is our goal," because balancing to the top will mess up everyone else.
Xenthos
2
Re: Daily Credit Feedback
Orael said:We can't have it faster than that for anyone and we think it's unreasonable to have it longer for those that aren't decked out.
What does this mean? I have 7cr, 11cr, and 4cr quests scoped out that I can do in 10 minutes or less each. If I just do them I can get my dailies done in 30-40 minutes. I intentionally slow myself down by getting things other ways (hunting ticks for family honour, etc). These quests involve a lot of running around, but because I have a high celerity and a lot of curio travel artifacts / other blixes, I can pop wherever I need to go pretty quickly and it takes a fraction of the time & effort for me to do these quests than others.
I think that this "balance to the fastest someone can possibly do it" is doomed to failure, because if you balance to the top it will take everyone else many, many more than 2 hours.
Xenthos
2
Re: Daily Credit Feedback
Enya said:Demigods with lots of bashing artis bash incredibly faster than titans, but not so for those without, not to the point of another doubling in effectiveness. I flat out didn't engage the daily credit mechanic because my impression was that for demigods bashing was intended to be a big part of how you get your points and it was totally miserable and would take me ages to get even half of a day's credits that way.
Rotating through a quest or three happens so much quicker and easier than bashing, and if I complete at least 16-17 cr from quests I don't ever go "just bash out" the last few credits because I've found myself taking far longer to get a single tick than to do my several quests.
That is a fair point, actually, and something to keep in mind. When I say it feels reasonable, I am looking at it from the standpoint of someone who does have all that stuff.
Note that I wouldn't actually be upset if we did make Demigod bashing ticks equal Titan- ones.
Something that also hasn't been pointed out yet is that influencing takes a lot longer than hunting to earn the ticks, because mobs are worth the same kill/influence point rate but it's generally a lot faster to murder them.
Xenthos
1
Re: Daily Credit Feedback
tbh I think the best way to help out the daily credits as is would be to convert more quests over to the quest ranking system, wherein they will gain a credit reward! Those are always good and I've basically come around to performing at least one quest I'm proficient at as part of my routine. It helps immensely and makes my absence from every timequake and most domoths nearly negligible.
The more options for questing there are, the less impact/reason anyone needs to bother with comm farming at demi.
The more options for questing there are, the less impact/reason anyone needs to bother with comm farming at demi.
Jolanthe
4
Re: Daily Credit Feedback
The problem with making Demigods do more for these is that it means when demigods do them, there are less of these resources for non-demigods.
Let's say even 2 demigods try to get 2 ticks each via comm-quests. That means they're soaking out 160 comms that 16 newbies could have used (or 8 not-so-newbies). This would make more sense if there was an infinite supply of the things (so it takes longer), but when demis need to collect so much, repeatedly, they are constantly stealing the resource from others.
I'm fine with the scaling that you have on hunting/influencing, because it helps even things up a lot. Novices hunt creatures worth many fewer points so they need the help, and there isn't a limitation on "what you can hunt" really (everything in the game counts). But for limited-resource things, making demigods have to put in more work ends up meaning that any demi who tries to do it is messing up everyone else.
My suggestion back at the beginning was to do a scaling thing for demis. EG: The first comm tick takes 10 comms, the second comm tick takes 20 comms, the fourth comm tick takes 40 comms, etc. Basically: "You're all right doing it one time, but it's a good idea to move along to greener pastures instead of grinding a lot of this one thing." I think I got a reply of "We'll think about feasibility," so it may just not have worked out... but yeah. That's my issue with ramping it up. You do successfully discourage a lot of us from pursuing these tasks any more, but the few who aren't discouraged still soak all the things anyways.
Xenthos
4
Daily Credit Feedback
There was some concern voiced that demigods need to work 4x as hard as novices in order to complete their daily credits. I don't believe this is the case.
There is a 'scoring' discrepancy as you will between novices (lvl 1-59), players (lvl 60-99) and demigods (lvl 100+). The reason for this discrepancy isn't because we want demigods to work harder, but because we want novices to get their daily credits in the same time span as demigods.
With comm-quests and things like scholars/bards - we want to discourage demigods from using these things to get through their credits. We want it to be something that a novice/player can do pretty easily and we don't want the quests and scholars/bards to be constantly gone because demigods zip around with their auto-say triggers to collect them all. We want to push demigods to participate in other activities for their credits.
With hunting/influencing - Demigods, in general, are hunting/influencing things that are much higher in point value and much faster than novices are. We have the same tiers for the Great hunt and the scores are always much much higher for demigods than they are for the others. Even if you take a novice astral bashing, they likely getting a lot fewer kills than the demigods of the group.
Is it 100% accurate that a novice and a demigod put in the exact same amount of work to earn their daily credits? No, it never will be, but we want to give them a fighting chance to earn their daily credits in the same amount of time as demigods would.
This is our outlook on the subject, but I'd be interested in hearing other's thoughts on this. Maybe there isn't something I haven't considered or thought of, or seen. I realize that someone is probably going to say 'but 99 and 100 are close!!!' and I'm just going to reply that we used the Great Hunt tiers because we had to draw the line somewhere.
There is a 'scoring' discrepancy as you will between novices (lvl 1-59), players (lvl 60-99) and demigods (lvl 100+). The reason for this discrepancy isn't because we want demigods to work harder, but because we want novices to get their daily credits in the same time span as demigods.
With comm-quests and things like scholars/bards - we want to discourage demigods from using these things to get through their credits. We want it to be something that a novice/player can do pretty easily and we don't want the quests and scholars/bards to be constantly gone because demigods zip around with their auto-say triggers to collect them all. We want to push demigods to participate in other activities for their credits.
With hunting/influencing - Demigods, in general, are hunting/influencing things that are much higher in point value and much faster than novices are. We have the same tiers for the Great hunt and the scores are always much much higher for demigods than they are for the others. Even if you take a novice astral bashing, they likely getting a lot fewer kills than the demigods of the group.
Is it 100% accurate that a novice and a demigod put in the exact same amount of work to earn their daily credits? No, it never will be, but we want to give them a fighting chance to earn their daily credits in the same amount of time as demigods would.
This is our outlook on the subject, but I'd be interested in hearing other's thoughts on this. Maybe there isn't something I haven't considered or thought of, or seen. I realize that someone is probably going to say 'but 99 and 100 are close!!!' and I'm just going to reply that we used the Great Hunt tiers because we had to draw the line somewhere.
Orael
1
Re: QUOTES 8: THE QUOTING
A keen-eyed falcon explodes with a light pop, scattering feathers everywhere.
Daraius
7
Re: Endgame Feedback
A couple of suggestions:
- the option for characters to be married at the Hall of Records without needing a Divine/Avatar for it, while keeping the other option open (I think this was suggested in ideas at some point, but just bringing it up here again)
- designing to generate a (small amount of) family honour
- the option for characters to be married at the Hall of Records without needing a Divine/Avatar for it, while keeping the other option open (I think this was suggested in ideas at some point, but just bringing it up here again)
- designing to generate a (small amount of) family honour
Coraline
3
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