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Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals
Resolving it by making the game significantly more tedious isn't going to broaden the types of players the game appeals to, though. I think that's been made abundantly clear through comments here- I still am not seeing a lot of support for expanded decay in this thread.
Xenthos
5
Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals
Orael said:Just to hopefully clear the air here - part of the reason for this thread is we can determine what the players in general want, so we can aim our goals appropriately.
There has been a lot of requests here to make things more active/engaging but then on the flip side, people want to have the option to not engage in the economy at all (mostly by having non-decay, self-sufficiency etc). Those seem pretty polar opposite goals.
Here are a few more questions that could use some answers in general.
1) Is the economy actually a problem for everyone or just a certain subset of players (like newbies etc)?
2) Should trading and economy be pushed as a viable gameplay route (ie, Merchant players that can make money as their IC identity and role)
- Is this currently an option?
3) Is there a route to allows players to both engage or not-engage as they see fit (ie Opt-in?).
- Is this a worthwhile path?
4) Would a better option just be just to nuke the economy and not even worry about it and only fix the commodity issues and call it a day?
- This option would be along the lines of just making basic supplies available in a shop. People can choose to have shops, but they'll have to understand that literally nobody has to or will engage with them outside others that choose to. The only worry about a glut of things would be to preserve db space rather than any economical issues?
Basically, the answers to these questions are getting divided down the middle of the vocal player. On one side are those who would like to see trades as a viable RP identity and money making path. A true newbie is most likely going to assume this is the case based on the fact that the game is pitched as the RP IRE and one would assume that the roleplay space of trader involves making lots of gold. This also gives players who just are not as interested in PvP a viable outlet and a way to feel like they're engaged in the game.
The other side are players who've spent so long in the current status quo that they've already opted out or are in the process of opting out, and have found engagement elsewhere in the game.
This basically leaves two viable paths to consider: Nuke the economy so everyone is opted out by default, leave a few niche goods here and there for funsies but make everything else available from NPCs who do the bulk of the actual trading, and refund pretty much every lesson, essence, and credit spent on a trade artifact, trade slot, cartel, or now-redundant opt-out artifact.
Overhaul the economy so that it doesn't rely on players to be customers in order to make money, or so that there is no viable path to permanently and completely opt out.
Overhaul the economy so that it doesn't rely on players to be customers in order to make money, or so that there is no viable path to permanently and completely opt out.
I saw an idea pitched a while ago for gnomes to ask for a single random design and pattern. Maybe expand that idea out fully. Periodically a group of gnomes ask for one trade good each trade. It might be as simple as "I need a one-handed weapon for my guard! I'll give you 1000 gold!" to as complex as "Ah, I have many fond memories of my mother, but she passed years ago. I remember she had an intricately gilded gown of immaculate white that she'd had enhanced with a knot to improve Charity work and a knot to resist excorible damage and a knot to improve cutting damage. If you can get me another of those, I'd gladly trade you 66 falconscarves." Then players have an hour to fill the order before the gnomes start raiding shops and buying the first object they find that fits the criteria at the price listed if it's lower than 110% of what they were offering. If no shops have it, you can still attempt to fill the order yourself for a time, or wait to see if the gnome either increases their offer price or leaves in a huff. The big trouble with this method/model is you'd still need to have NPCs to sell basic goods, and you'd need to make absolutely positively sure that anyone who wanted a certain amount of a commodity could acquire it within a couple of hours.
Luce
1
Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals
Xenthos said:I'm curious why your two viable paths exclude:"Increase commodity availability and address tradeskill gating" - why don't you see that as viable? Sure, you could add things in where people can craft things and sell them off to gold to npcs as an alternative to hunting or whatever, but I'm not sure why you're only presenting two options that both require a lot of work when it feels like the simplest solution is just put it back to the way it worked for years, while potentially adding a few other outlets / reasons for trades along the way.
Because we've already been down that path and it still leaves a wide open gap that doesn't feel right. Tradeskills still can't make money, but are still 'required' until you spend enough goop and credits to opt out over time. It's not commodities or skill gating that's holding back tattoists, it's the fact that someone needs tattoos all of once and will likely only pay you a pittance for your time that you could have instead spent bashing to make more gold, xp, and DC. People don't go chef to sell any of their mechanically beneficial platters, kabobs, and treats, they do it to refine 34 pies for Gioia or so they can herofete for free, or just to sell a bowl of ice cream every few weeks for the arrpees. It's another can-kick to push the issue down the road for a few months until the cracks are exposed again. If tradeskills aren't meant to matter, then let's clear out the stuff that makes it look like they do. If they are meant to matter, let them.
Luce
3
Re: QUOTES 8: THE QUOTING
No, and after hearing what some people thought dreamsauce was, I have no desire for it now.Alarin said:
So... did you ever get that crocodile or dreamsauce, @Ianir?
Ianir
4
Re: Simple Ideas
as I just ran into this again, I would love to have some sort of possibility to allow a new player to speak directly with someone who's off plane without having to resort to CGT. While CGT solves some of the issues, its also a little bit difficult if they're really more trying to RP and not just asking questions. Maybe there could be some sort of craft item that allows them to communicate with one specific person that crafted such an item for them? (not sure if that idea is any good), just generally feels bad if a newbie who's trying to RP can't answer you because you're off plane.
Aeldra
1
Re: God Blogs
The work you three put in for Celest makes me damn glad I decided to come back. I look forward to seeing what you all have in store for us next!Terentia said:Team TLC (aka Terentia, Lantra, and Carakhan) wrote up a little something about our thought process for the Celest guild touchups. We hope it is informative!
Alarin
2
Re: Keeping Divine Orders Alive
Divine orders just really struggle without the Divine being active in pretty much all cases I've seen. It's almost kind of magical how a Divine returning from dormancy/having a new player admin can make a whole group of players just return seemingly out of thin air - th intentions of supporting dormant orders are good, but I'm not sure how much can really be derived from it.
Pure roleplay divine was actually the original intention behind ascension, and while I think that could be a neat avenue to explore I can also see why we've shied from it. Puts a lot of strain on coder admin who might not be able to commit in the same ways, even if they'd like to.
Pure roleplay divine was actually the original intention behind ascension, and while I think that could be a neat avenue to explore I can also see why we've shied from it. Puts a lot of strain on coder admin who might not be able to commit in the same ways, even if they'd like to.
Jolanthe
2
Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals
We could make a city's Nexus decay if you don't put 500 Wood/Silver/Platinum/Gold/Iron into it every week! /s
Luxurio
3
Re: Upcoming Economy Rework and Goals
My Acquisitio and Waterbreathing decayed, and as a veteran, instead of deciding to upkeep them I just bought the artifacts. Note, I would do this with every artifact, because dealing with upkeep on decayed items is painful and annoying. Once I buy the rest of my runes to attach to artifacts, I won't need to worry about this anymore.
New comers shouldn't have to jump through the hoops/wheel spins that I have done to be able to afford that.
Silvanus
3
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