Forum Home Lusternia.com Lore Wiki Vote! Forum Rules VOTE ON TMS!

Best Of

Re: Alliance System

Magnagora and Serenwilde have fundamentally incompatible worldviews. If we haven't split up based on our drastically different RP yet, it means there is something else keeping us linked (love of winning? fear of change? fear of Mag being our enemy? not knowing people on the other side well?). The admins doing a world event is not going to change people's minds about alliances.

There is a mechanical way to make alliances inherently unstable - and that is to put an increasing cost on maintaining it. So the long you're allied with them, the more it costs the org, and the more they want to break the alliance. But people have already said they don't want even a flat cost to alliances, so a system that mechanically encourages alliances to change is difficult to do, and would likely be rejected by the players.

Qistrel

Alliance System

As I made mention to in my first announcement post, I have been working on conceptualising an Alliance System in order to create a system for Alliances between organizations. This has been an ongoing and evolving project and has taken quite a bit of time to iron out and properly flesh out the idea. Below is the current and up to date idea of the alliance system, and we are looking for feedback.

As a preface, all syntax shown in this proposal can change at any time and is for example purpose only.

How it works

Alliances will be formed within the council chambers of cities and communes. An organization can only be a member of one alliance at a time, with a maximum of three organizations within each alliance. The commands required for forming an alliance will only be usable by the city/commune leader, however all council members and the Minister of Security will be able to see the status of the alliance. Each alliance will last a maximum of Lusternian 10 years before it will dissolve, however can be renewed at the 8/9 year mark if a new treaty is provided and signed (the below confirm step is not required in this case). The basic process of forming an alliance is as follows:

- An organization will initiate the alliance with ALLIANCE INITIATE <org>.

- The organization that has been offered the alliance must then ALLIANCE ACCEPT. This must be done within 12 IRL days or the alliance will dissolve.

- As the cap for each alliance is 3 organizations, the above two steps may be done again to add a third organization to the alliance forming process from the outset.

- Once the alliance has been accepted, a Treaty must be created and signed by all members of the Alliance. This is similar to the treaties that alliances have now, however with the alliance system it will be made into a new bookbinding replica (and accompanying skill) under AB BOOKBINDING TREATY. The treaty will be provided with ALLIANCE TREATY <item number>.

- Once the treaty has been provided, all organization members of the alliance must ALLIANCE SIGN TREATY. To sign a treaty, the signing member must be within the city/commune council chambers and possess a seal for their organization. The ‘signature’ on the treaty will be the seal’s stamp line.

- Once a treaty has been signed by all Alliance members, the leaders must then ALLIANCE CONFIRM. Once all members have confirmed the alliance, the alliance will be formed and active. Each city/commune leader will receive a copy of the treaty.

- An organization may leave the alliance after it has been formed

Alliance costs

The use of the alliance system will require two cost resources, power and gold. A breakdown of the cost is below:

- Forming an alliance (Taken at the CONFIRM step): 125,000 power and 1,000,000 gold per organization.

- A yearly upkeep cost of 2,000 power and 200,000 gold per organization.

- A level up cost of 1,000 power and 100,000 gold per party (This will be explained below).

- The total cost for an alliance will be 155,000 power and 4,000,000 gold for the life of the alliance.

- If an organization is added to the alliance after the initial forming, the joining organization will pay the upfront cost, and the cost of any levels the alliance has purchased. The joining organization will not be required to pay upkeep costs for years that have passed, but will have to pay all future yearly upkeep costs.

Alliance upgrades

Each alliance will receive 9 upgrade points to spend on any combination of skills from three different trees: Ideology, Military and Utility. These trees are vertical (leveling up from bottom to top). In order to unlock a higher tiered skill, the alliance must unlock the lower tiered skill first. A breakdown of these skills is below:

Image: https://forums.lusternia.com/uploads/editor/rm/q8j7czm4lvpz.png

Military:

Level 1: Alliance members may now bombard on behalf of other orgs within the alliance (at 50% effectiveness).

Level 2: Alliance Herald - Announces conflict events and forwards org mob call of helps to the alliance.

Level 3: Alliance members gain 2% more exp per alliance member in the area, up to a maximum of 20%.

Level 4: Domoth blessings may now be targeted to the alliance instead of an organization.

Level 5: Increase Alliance Bombards to 75% effectiveness for other orgs. Bombarding for your own org will be 25% stronger.

Utility:

Level 1: Village comm quests now give double commodities (2 instead of 1) per turn in [restricted to alliance owned villages].

Level 2: Celerity boost when alliance members are in the same area (+1 for 2-5, +2 for 5+).

Level 3: Alliance skill to offer summon to all alliance members (same plane only).

Level 4: Squads alliance members will generate more power based on how many members are in the squad (+5% 2-5, +10% 5-10, +15% 11+).

Level 5: Upgrade level 3 alliance skill to cross plane (10p cost) [Plane + 2 adjacent].

Ideology:

Level 1: Influencing with weaken within a village revolt will lower the opposing sides total points towards the revolt.

Level 2: Alliance members gain a +10% offerings boost when offering to alliance divine.

Level 3: Gain the ability to influence for other orgs in the alliance during revolts [also adds alliance influence skills depending on city rank in your own org] (at 50% effectiveness).

Level 4: Increase amount of change in village feelings per influence/murder/quest (both positive and negative).

Level 5: Increase alliance influence to 75% effectiveness when influencing for other orgs in revolts. Influencing for your own org will be 25% stronger.

As an example:

I have 9 points for my alliance. My options for leveling up are Military, Utility and Ideology. I put a point into Military and unlock bombard, leaving me with 8 points. I put a point into Ideology and unlock Weakening and have 7 points left. I invest 4 points into Military and unlock Herald, Experience, Domoths and Improved Bombard, leaving me with 3 points. My options to level up are now Utility and Ideology.

When an alliance dissolves or is renewed, these 9 points reset and can be reallocated. This means that you can try new and different combinations each time the alliance is renewed, or new alliances are formed.

Other alliance benefits

Other additions for the alliances include:

- Alliance channels (not clans):

- A combat channel, specifically for combat calling and so on.

- A general alliance channel for alliance chatter.

- Alliance logs (READLOG ALLIANCE)

- Enemy/Ally lists

- The purpose of alliances with respect to ally and enemy lists is that all alliance members will inherently be marked as allies, and everyone else will inherently be marked as enemies.

- Ally/Enemy lists will not be removed from the game, as they will still be used for Arenas, and manse door permissions, etc.

- There is no decision on what will happen with enemy/ally list expansion runes at this point in time, as it is still something that is being discussed. A formal decision on this will be made prior to the release of the Alliance system.

Alliances and the future

Alliances are the first big step to balancing conflict and combat. By adding avenues to influence and bombard on behalf of other alliance members and with the ability to count all online members within an alliance much easier than we can now, the options for balancing based on alliance numbers becomes much easier to do and much more accessible. This includes revisions on raids (such as altering smob health/damage based on attackers v defenders, for example) and dynamically shifting difficulty of other things like aetherflares and revolts based on the number of players in each alliance. The things I have mentioned here now may or may not happen, and I am not promising that they will, however they are just some examples of what could be done with this system.

We look forward to reading your feedback.

Ealix

Re: Alliance System

I don’t know that I have ever in my life felt compelled to comment on a forum post before now… but here we are. I have to agree that the game does seem to be fading out even as it still holds so much potential. And I understand how it can be seen as a domino effect when you relate alliances to bigger things - working out combat synergy and balance - to eventually be able to present a relatively “fair” playing field for an ascension. I don’t think there’s any question that the admin are actively *trying* to save Lusternia.

The problem is that, as others have said, they don’t seem to clearly see the issues that are the true drivers. I think a coded alliance system would be beneficial if for no other reason than organization. Having logs and a separate channel that people are automatically in by being org members versus having to wait for someone who can induct into a clan would be helpful. I also understand that good things come at a cost and I’m relatively fine with that concept as well, but if you’re going to charge a premium cost you need to deliver a premium product and these bonuses aren’t it. To echo others’ thoughts.. how do the smaller orgs come up with these numbers? What happens when they simply give up because the 2-3 active players can’t handle it all by themselves?

If we want to change the direction the game is headed in, then we need to make actual changes to the game, not just put syntax and a cost around the current makeup. Make a 2-org alliance system. Make it cost significantly less or, better still, follow a common business model when you want to attract new clients and give the benefit without cost at least for a while until the value is built. Or, produce active conflict.. have the Supernals march on over to Nil occasionally and stir things up. Not only does it drum up interactions, it makes sense given the dynamic.

This rant went longer than intended so I’ll end it by saying that.. when I log in while I sip my coffee, there are 4-6 players online. The most I ever see is 30 and that’s rare lately. Over 6 orgs that’s ~5 active players per org if everything was spread equally which we know is not the case. Now is not the time to put heavy costs on the 30 of us willing to stick it out.

Kennian

Re: Alliance System

You've not been the first to state the game is dying. Much as I am very much railing against that very concept as best as I am able to. This sort of proposal, the tradeoff silliness, stupidly high costs WITH constant upkeep on top, minimal gains in return, but punishment if you don't engage...this isn't the way. Burn out is real, and it's starting to creep in everywhere, copying the system that is causing it isn't going to help.

Shango

Re: Alliance System

I think the entire problem is population and activity. I mean this in the best way, but Lusternia is dying. People are leaving and not coming back because we feel unheard and ignored for trivial and minute changes that don't really draw people in and keep them here anymore. Admin and player attitudes have become apathetic at best and I'm sure there's lots of things going on behind the magic curtain that we, as players don't see.

I can't say I know what the answer is but I don't think this is it.

Amadiya

Re: Upcoming feature: History Timeline

I suspect that it'll have the ability to reference published books as well!

Huskii

Re: Lusternian Divine AMA

How do you pronounce Lady Li-Varili? Where is the stressed syllable?

lɪ VA-rɪl-i:
LI: VAR-ɪ-LI:
LI: va-RɪL-i:
etc.

where i: is a long vowel like see and ɪ is a short vowel like sit

Xiran

Announce Post #3290: Changes to Cloaking Gems and WHO lists

Hello everyone,

We are looking at making changes to Cloaking Gems and WHO lists and have placed a proposal on the forums for review and comments.

The discussion can be found here:

https://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/4788/changes-to-cloaking-gems-and-who-lists#latest

We look forward to hearing your feedback on our proposed changes.

Thanks in advance,

~Ealix

Autoposter

Re: Players Power-Leveling True Newbies

As a new player, I came into this game with the idea that since it is reading-based that I would have to do a lot of reading--and writing. When I entered the game, there was a lot about lore. I have been roleplaying my character based on the fact that he is having a crisis for coming into a new world after forgetting everything that came before. There are emotional issues that he is having. He remembers how to do things and say things, but very little from the prior life has seeped through during his experience in the Pools of Remembrance.

As I have been having my character go around asking questions about lore, I have been given some experience, such as from listening to someone explain the history of the beginnings and of the gods and their wars. I have experience some who tried to get me through initial quests just to get them done, but I didn't get much out of it. Getting through it lost the roleplay value. Why was my character doing this and what was I getting out of it as a player in those moments?

The idea that someone automatically becomes a part of a city, commune, or collegium just for entering that location after leaving the Pools of Remembrance and having to read hints that keep popping up on my screen that I need to choose a class from the very beginning have pushed the idea of this game being less about roleplaying and more about leveling up and getting into combat, which precipitates the desire for power leveling. When I choose a class, it goes even further that by choosing a class, you are actually choosing a guild in which you will be a member; however, how can my character be choosing a guild if they have never met anyone from the guild? I come out of the Portal and am being told I must choose a guild right away--when looking from an in-character rp viewpoint instead of a point of view of this is what I must choose if this is the type of class I want to play.

When I came into the game, as a player I had to choose a city or commune in which to start--and not just start but that my character should swear fealty from the beginning when they--the character--has no idea about that place. The idea of having the Fates' Protection of Innocence could make the case for providing the character the opportunity to visit the six places to determine which kind of place would he like to live and which kind of vision of life he wants to have. Now, in the game, with the Protection of Innocence leaving at level 30 and having started to understand this world, I have my character at level 29, because my character wants to explore Lusternia while under that protection to learn about the world at large. My character just came into a whole new world and remembers almost nothing of their past. What makes it more difficult is that my character is "officially" aligned with the city that I as a player chose for my character when I created the character and the "guild via choosing a class" that I chose for my character at the behest of all the in-game notices to make that choice actually causes the possibility that others may choose to deem that my character may not be allowed to be in their city when the character themself has not made the decision for themself of those choices, much less even understand what those choices even mean.

I have still yet to finish the collegium tasks, which I was informed is there to help my character learn some basic skills and survival skills. However, I argue that those basic skills can be learned without having joined a collegium. For example, when my character enters a commune or city for the first time, instead of being automatically joined to it, he could start asking denizens about the world. The denizens can give lore about their local commune or city. They could give them basic laws and guidelines that visitors should know upfront. The character can inquire about needing some support; since they don't have a job, the denizens send them on tasks in lieu of payment for some support. These tasks should include some lore. Then after getting their basic needs met of say a place to stay and food to eat at a tavern for the innocents, then it might be a good time for them to start learning more about the lore of the world or of their commune; this could be a good time for a representative of the city or commune meet with them, say at the tavern or Nexus, where the representative is now a player who roleplays in character to then give additional lore about the place and can then start answering specific questions that the player's character has.

After doing so, the Fates' initial quests that are given to the players could alert that they have completed one of the six lore tasks: Going to a city or commune to learn about their lore and their way of life. Going back to the POOLS and finding another entrance to one of the other six NEXUS locations to learn about their lore would be the start of the second of six LORE quests to learn about the lore of each commune and city but by doing it in a way of where they are learning about the six NEXUS points and why they are so important. The point with this is that it gives the character (and player) a frame of reference of what the world is about. They can see how the people in the different locations treat each other, treat them as guests, and explain why their commune or city is worthy of them as a new resident and what their vision is for their city or commune and what is at the center of their city. Then the characters can decide which kind of life and vision interests them. Then they can start learning the ways of the communes' and cities' guilds.

After completing the Six Nexus quests, they can then move on to learning about the different guilds, which will ultimately cover the classes. This could be considered as the Guilds quests. Even these quests can be automated through denizens as players learn about these guilds and their associated purposes followed by explaining the kind of skills people need to have to be successful in those guilds, which are the skills that form the baseline of the class systems. They could even explain the specializations that they may pursue as a member of the guild as they learn about these at these guilds.

Now that the character (and player) has a good understanding of the world by learning about the lore of the six Nexus points and the guilds that support the six Nexus points, and after meeting other players and the kind of social environment in which they could play, now the players can really choose what they want from the game and how they want to enjoy playing the game--and they will have a roleplay reason for doing so. If this also were the case, then during the initial character creation and even at the beginning, there could be a choice for both location and for class (guild) as "undecided," which can then inform the other players to be especially careful on how they interact with them as roleplaying is much more important to them than power leveling. By doing all of this, this will then potentially help reduce the idea and the practive of power leveling true newbies.

Kitchie

Re: Announce Post #3286: The Winter is Here

Xynthin would count as a historical figure. A leopard would not, as a snowy one specifically would be based on *someone's* pet and those are off the table too. There is, however, a snowcat there!

Keep them coming, we'll review and add things in one go and update here when it happens.

Uilani