Let’s 86 Ambassadors.

Steingrim

The game has changed to the point where ambassadors are pretty superfluous. Any difficult decision is going to require council approval and any decision which doesn’t can be handled by an aide.

 

Given we have the collegium now. Why not just handle the normal cases of citizenship though the Chancellors and Professors?

 

It made sense to have ambassadors before the collegium, but ambassadors really are no longer needed.

 

Talan

I'd rather see them given the power to enemy and unenemy, and possibly to write in the citylog and create city projects.

Ambassadors do serve an important function when it comes to helping older players immigrate, and to a lesser extent by making sure that players cut the proper ties when they leave (like making sure they get discharged from org clans). Helping someone sort out their enemy statuses, find sponsors, validate their citizen contracts, or satisfy whatever other entry requirements an org has in place isn't really the job of guild secretaries and undersecretaries (professors). Administrators (chancellors) may help at the guild level, but don't have de facto jurisdiction in the city.

The scope has changed, but the office isn't useless. I'd rather see their powers tailored to fit the use that players have given over the years than ditch it entirely.

Lavinya

I'm with Talan, give them the ability to better act as an ambassador -  the person who knows the proceedure and can see about implementing it in the case of foreign converts. The GAs and their underlings really have novices covered already.

Steingrim

Most the time the ambassador just is not doing any of this, at least not fully. If it is enemy statuses it is usually the org and it seems overkill to me to have an office to clear enemy city/commune status, especially when the council can and often insists on clearing the status themselves.

Generally, the guild's approval is a requirement when an ambassador is needed. I get that is isn't currently the job of undersecs to do so, but that doesn't mean it could not be part of their job, especially since they're usually involved anyways.

Here's a snapshot:

10.2.1 SERENWILDE COMMUNE, GRACE OF THE MOONHART

                 [THE FREE FOREST OF SERENWILDE]
                    Ambassador: (Vacant)

10.2.4 GLOMDORING COMMUNE, THE HEART OF DARKNESS

                [THE FREE ALLIANCE OF GLOMDORING]
                    Ambassador: Kethaera

10.2.2 CELEST, RESURGENCE OF THE LIGHT

              [THE HOLY GRAND DUCHY OF NEW CELEST]
                    Ambassador: Glevich

10.2.3 CITY OF MAGNAGORA, THE ENGINE OF TRANSFORMATION

                 [THE GRAND EMPIRE OF MAGNAGORA]
                    Ambassador: Nayl

10.2.6 GAUDIGUCH, CITY OF FREEDOM

               [THE HOLY GRAND DUCHY OF GAUDIGUCH]
                    Ambassador: Zygot

10.2.5 HALLIFAX, THE BEACON OF HARMONY

                [THE GRAND PROVINCE OF HALLIFAX]
                    Ambassador: Allyrianne

One vacant, at least one one pretty inactive, at least one going inactive soon.

When the ambassador functioned as welcome wagon it made a lot more sense. Now the collegium have in large part taken over most of the role with councils taking over quite a bit as well. Most orgs make you involve the guild to process requests. Just cut out the middle man whose major impact at this point is just to make it take longer to get citizen-ed.

Tacita

My vote is a very strong no. 

I cannot speak for other organisations but in Glomdoring, the Ambssador does a lot of hard work that frees the CL up to be able to do their own thing. They handle all of our commune enemying, which although it is an evolution of the position is an entirely legitimate and common policy (so I 100% agree with Talan about giving them enemy privs). 

Depending on the org you also have the possibility of them being responsible for coordinating things within the collegium (e.g. overseeing communal scrolls like those about the quests or other useful things like ensuring everyone updates things when stuff about newbiedom changes). Obviously this would vary depending on how the org works but the option is there and I don't think it should be automatically assumed that the Ambassador can do nothing to help now the collegium is in.

Additionally - yes, people who want to join still have to contact the guild leadership, but just like the org shouldn't bypass the need to ask the guild, equally the guild shouldn't be able to bypass getting the org's permission to induct people.

Hiriako

The Vacant one is because I just left Serenwilde. :P

Xenthos

I like our Ambassador.

Karlach

Glomdoring's ambassador role is one that's not only filled but well utilised. It delegates work and co-ordination where people are able to route one into an organisation if they wish to join, and there's no crossed wires or oversights.

Our ambassador and her predecessors have all done an excellent job in this regard, making sure people are unenemied, directing them in the right place if they aren't, and explaining the sponsorship system to them. From a GC point of view, they're also brilliant for me, because I've someone to be communicative with if I have objections, concerns or want to make a note regarding certain applicants, and it's all going through one person, so nothing slips through the cracks.


I'm with Talan, if anything, Ambassadors need more tools, not to be made redundant.

Elanorwen

I disagree that ambassadors are useless. What I do feel, though, is that they do not have enough power.... then again, that's a bit of a pain in the first place. If I am approached to settle an enemy status, I can only ask the person seeking unenemied about any status unrelated to my guild. That's probably where ambassador should step in and they should have the ability to -check- if an individual has any enemy status related to Divine pantheon, guilds, guild-aligned organizations. Shouldn't be too hard a thing to code in, and it could also be the stepping stone to adding a DIPLOMACY <person> SUMMARY ability... so people can actually look at certain individuals with laurels to make sure enemy statuses are/aren't there.

Karlach

I thought Ambassadors can already check a list of statuses a person has against their organisation and affiliates?

Hiriako

They can.

DIPLOMACY SUMMARY <person> - all related organization enemy statuses.

Elanorwen

They can? Never heard of that... I know DIPLOMACY SUMMARY exists for the user only. Anything else isn't documented for sure.

Silvanus

If you use DIPLOMACY, it lets you know all the commands that exist. While an Ambassador can do Diplomay Summary (person), they can't enemy or unenemy or set fines for anyone. They have to be a guild protector to do that.

What I think should happen is a city should be allowed to organize their organization's ministries/government style anyway they want and invest powers like a Clan leader. For example, combine the Steward/Treasurer/Trade Minister into one ministry and name it something else (not saying orgs will do that because some like checks/balances for people in power) just something to give more customization and  personable feeling towards an organization.

Cyndarin

There's a difference between meaningful change and "Hey, I'm bored. I'm going to post random things that inconvenience me on forums." This falls into the latter category. Nixing the Ambassador position has no real benefit.

It's a great training role for up and coming players who want to have more responsibility in their orgs. It's pretty easy to set the standard that the ambassador applicant should have enemy/unenemy privs. Guild security, whatever CR rank it gets that rank, etc. It's a point of contact for anyone seeking to join rather than bugging random guild leaders to do it.

 

edit: Really, I think that having a visible point of contact for players to join orgs is extremely valuable. Much less likely to have a miscommunication when one person is in charge of the whole shebang

Enyalida

There are some ministries that could stand to be removed or combined though, namely treasurer/steward.

Elanorwen

Enyalida said:

There are some ministries that could stand to be removed or combined though, namely treasurer/steward.

Yeah, steward is such a... waste. Only reason it exists, though, is as a check on the treasurer, so one person cannot assign funds to their ministry and then withdraw said funds.

Xenthos

They can already be combined; just appoint the same person to both.

I personally feel it is better to give orgs the ability to decide if they want one person to be able to move funds around to that extent (aside from the CL, of course).

Kethaera

I like my job. Harassing people who ask to be unenemied to Glomdoring is becoming one of my favorite things to do.

Steingrim said:

Most the time the ambassador just is not doing any of this, at least not fully. If it is enemy statuses it is usually the org and it seems overkill to me to have an office to clear enemy city/commune status, especially when the council can and often insists on clearing the status themselves.

Having one person to follow one policy is more efficient for the organization and it gives outsiders one specific person to ask. I've noticed that some other orgs don't have the same role for Ambassador as Glomdoring, and from my outsider-perspective, attempting to deal with them has been very confusing/frustrating. If the council can't trust the ministers they appoint to do the job they appoint them to, then there's a problem with the internal politics or with communication. Policies can and should be taught to people who are then trusted to use their own judgment to uphold them- that's basic good leadership. 

I.E., If I'm doing a good job as ambassador, I owe that in large part to @Svorai. 

Svorai

I'm pretty pleased with how @Kethaera has run off and made the position her own. In Glomdoring, the Ambassador holds a lot of responsibility (for keeping the crazies out, and snatching up the good'uns). Basically the 'envoy' and representative of Glomdoring to the non-political realm of the Basin.

Ambassador was always my favourite role (over CL, GA and GM), and I'm grateful that @Ragniliff and @Tacita let me solidify our practice. Speaking from a CL's perspective... while I love the interaction Ambassador used to give me, I'm so glad Keth takes care of a bunch of things I don't have time for. 

People should take a leaf out of Glom's book if you feel Ambassador is a useless role! 

Now, if only they could have more diplomacy permissions... especially for reading the reasons and notes of enemying for different guilds/Orders/Spirits.