New player with new questions

Ducan

Hi all. I'm from Aetolia/Imperian and I'm looking to start up on Lusternia. I was wondering a few things.

- Is there a free/cheap system that works well?

- I looked at the wiki and Cavalier isn't mentioned when 'warrior archetypes' are brought up. You can be a Cavalier in the warrior guilds, right?

- Is Cavalier effective or should I consider doing something else as a newcomer?

- Is there a mudbot mapper + map laying around anywhere?

- What race is good/the best for warrior/knight archetypes?

Thanks!

Rialorm

- I recommend m&m, it is a Mudlet system and by far the most popular and best supported.

- The wiki is sadly neglected. Yes, you can be.

- I'll let the experts handle that, but I'd say it is. 

- Nope, use the Mudlet mapper

- Your guild will have recommendations on races, this is a relatively new feature that will be explained to you during the intro

Zouviqil

So, I am NOT A WARRIOR at all, and my answers will be mostly useless to you. People with better answers would likely be @Morkarion, @Xenthos, @Hiriako, and @Kelly. I will give you something to start off with and others who know better to pick apart.

1. There are a couple of free/cheap systems hopping about, such as Medic, though your mileage may vary on their success.
2. To be a Cavalier you must complete the Heart of Shallah quest and own a mount. I believe you can complete the quest without a mount, but without a mount, Cavalier is pretty useless.
3. Effectiveness, I'm not sure. I have heard two Cavaliers squaring off against each other can be hilarious for everyone involved to watch.
4. If you use Mudlet to connect to Lusternia, you can DL the Mudlet Map for Lusternia -- or does the map come with it? I forget. The map is free with Mudlet, either way.
5. Warrior/Knight, I've heard, are best with Aslaran at current. But, some races have specializations. Orclachs, for example, make awesome Pureblades. Dwarfs make great Axelords. Krokani are killer Bonecrushers. Igasho are wonderful Blademasters. And Tae'dae are some of the best Cavaliers around.

Just as a note, those who get into warrior/knight roles have a high entry level for PVP, in terms of additional items that must be bought.

Karlach

Cavalier is probably the most skill intensive of the Knighthood (warrior) specs and yes, you need to be in a Knight guild to learn the skills. Because they are reliant on having a beast (to the point where their attacks are less effective if not mounted) it's a spec you don't want to be taking without some investment in Beastmastery.

Pureblade is a more popular spec for newer players, cutting damage vulnerable mobs are more prevalent than blunt, and the spec has a wide variety of afflictions to utilise in combat.

At the PK endgame, it's pretty much a case of being the Aslaran master race, though a couple of guilds (Ebonguard/Templar) can make use of Faeling as they have ways to counter the race's naturally low strength. For levelling however, I really recommend the races attached to your weapon spec. Orclach for Pureblade, Dwarf for Axelord, Taedae for Cavalier, Igasho for Blademaster and Krokani for Bonecrusher. While these races lack the speed advantage to be effective in PvP, they're tough races in terms of large health pools and resistances against a variety of damage types.

The bonus they get to their racial weapon spec is pretty useful too, your weapons have the equivalent of an extra set of runes on your weapons. (+10 to all stats on 1h'ers, +20 damage/11 precision and 5 speed on 2h'ers.)


I'd advise taking a weapon spec race for levelling, and then using your free reincarnate at Demigod to get involved more in PvP once you have an understanding of the basics, and skills to support it. That doesn't mean in any way you can't PK before then, you'll certainly still be helpful in group combat.

Lerad

Yes, what Morkarion said is mostly good advice. As a newbie you will be unlikely to be focusing too much on one-versus-one combat. Group combat in Lusternia is the most prominent (if not the only) type of combat outside of the arena, so you don't have to worry about being all geared up as a one-man army. There will be plenty of opportunities in group combat even if you lack the best optimizations. Of course, there IS a minimum amount of combat investment you must make in order to avoid being knocked out of the fight before you swing more than twice, but worrying about fastest balance, artied weapon stats at this stage etc is too early.

Cavalier is a decent choice for group combat. Cavaliers have certain combat abilities that are geared toward group combat, and they have a fair amount of versatility. They get impaling capabilities that may well rival a blademaster's, while simultaneously being able to benefit from two-handed wound bonuses. Cavaliers also have access to both blunt and cutting afflictions, not all of them, but some of those that Cavaliers can access are fairly useful in a group setting.

What you want to choose for your race is one that is tanky enough that you won't have a nervous breakdown trying to keep yourself alive while hunting vermin (I'm exaggerating a bit). You will have a free reincarnation, and if worse comes to worse, buying a reincarnation dagger later in the game is also a definite possibility. Pick a race with a decent con (without too heavy disadvantages) to start with, so that you'll find bashing for your first few levels to not be too difficult. The weapon-spec races Morkarion advised above (Orclach, Dwarf etc etc) are all decent choices. I would personally advise to stay away from the fast balance races first, until you get some levels and have more of a feel of the combat scene.

There are a few systems floating out there with varying degrees of effectiveness, and while most of those that you have to pay for are worth it, you must keep in mind that you still need to invest time into tweaking it so that it works for your style. The free ones lack certain functionalities, but their effectiveness at the core objective (keeping you alive) is usually robust enough for introduction and stepping into the combat scene. You can always use a free system until you get used to combat and for practice, and then pick up one of the paid-for systems when you're ready.

Mudlet's mapping script for IRE (available freely from the Mudlet wiki/forums) functions almost identically to mudbot, with special exits, map editing, sprint/dash and cubix(duanathar) support. I personally feel that mudbot reacted better in terms of response/ping time, but that's to do with the fact that mudbot connects directly to the game whereas mudlet's mapper script runs through the client. I've never tried, but I think mudbot won't work for mudlet as well, so if you want to buy a system that runs on mudlet in the future, then you'd want to consider that as well.

Neos

Mudbot works with mudlet. I use it on Aetolia.

Cyndarin

So I'm going to disagree with some of the above statements.

There is no benefit from leveling as a igasho/tae'dae/dwarf/krokani then switching to aslaran at endgame. It serves only to waste your free reincarnation. You'll just have extra health you don't really need, and you will level slower as a result. Specifically tae'dae and igasho are slow, crappy races you should never be under any circumstances unless purist RP is your thing. The low int races, which is basically all of the weapon spec races, struggle at low levels because their mana is garbage. You can easily clot or focus yourself in to no mana as a tae'dae or igasho at the lower levels. Keep in mind that more mana also means more health from surge, and more effective use of transmute and whatever that warrior skill is that boosts your health regen for mana.

Assuming you invest in the appropriate skills, Aslaran will have all the survivability you will need as a warrior because a warrior's survivability is in their skills (ex. surge, fullplate, etc.), and not their race. Casters do just fine surviving the leveling process, and most do so with less than the 12 con of aslaran and major weaknesses. It is a myth that more constitution+racial resistances make a more effective low level basher. This is only true for true newbies, and as you come from Achaea, you will be familiar with the fundamentals of Lusternia. Speed is and will always be king at effective, effecient leveling even before criticals become a large factor. The only time it would REALLY matter is until level 40 or so, which you can get in literally a couple of hours. Don't waste your free reincarnation just so your first few hours are slightly easier.

Krokani bonecrushers can compete with Aslarans at the meta due to weapon specialization bonus (+stats plus a 7% wounding bonus) and fabulous str/dex. Otherwise, you will want to be an aslaran.

I've always dreamed of being a Krokani BC because you can get your weapon stats and wounding to absolutely ridiculous levels, but I just can't be bothered to go back to playing a warrior. I find the class to be exceptionally tedious.

Cavalier is great at bashing, they are the least effective at PK. They have solid group support with their impales, and high burst wounding though.

Karlach

Sure you can go Aslaran right off the bat if you're willing to invest in the various skills to make it all work. But that's an exceptionally big if, and one that needs to be taken into consideration when making that kind of decision.

Surge, masterplate, decent DMP through resilience, ritual/totem spec related damage reduction and various other mitigation skills are mostly not low end skills, and most are much closer to Transcendant. They're a credit investment to reach, and while certainly if it's feasible for you to invest that money off the bat then go for it, if you don't have the income to do so, it's going to be touch and go, especially pre-surge. By the time you get to Asylum/UV cavefishers and beyond, if you haven't been able to make an investment in skills, there's no such thing as "too much health" and racial mitigation bonuses will be a huge boost to your survivability.

Sure the killing's slower, but you know what's really slow for killing? Being dead and going through a 10 minute praying wall of text.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with levelling as a weapon race and swapping at Demigod, this was my first ever MUD character and I got Demigod in a couple of months taking the Orclach route from 1-100, and I only aetherbashed the crappy zone that is the mid 80s.

Kaimanahi

I've never tried it, but Cavalier is neat. As some others said, be prepared to have to invest a little more lessons for Beastmastery and then deal with the added complication of maintaining your beast. If you're looking for a way to ease into it, I'd probably say Pureblade is a good route.

I tend to side with Celina's comments regarding race. As a generalization, I would avoid anything with a balance malus; some of the higher strength races are okay if they fall under that (I tend to flirt between aslaran and merian lady). I actually probably prefer having the higher strength in group fights and added constitution/survivability is a bonus, but nothing terribly scientific about that.

Cyndarin

It's really not what you are making it out to be.

All a mountain of health and resists give you as a low level warrior is the opportunity to bash things that are bigger than you earlier than you would otherwise, only it'll take you forever because you don't get crits, thus making your mountain of health pretty pointless.

Just because you can bash orclach doesn't mean it was a smart choice that should be applied to everyone. Bashing is really flipping easy. You don't have to waste your reincarnation on it.

 

I mean, your whole point is kind of defeated by the fact that caster races have low con and they manage to not die all the time as a result. I did it as a Nihilist faeling of all things.

 

edit: Kelly also has a point. High strength (up to 18, anything more is pointless) with no balance malus is the most reliable choice for lowbie bashing. More important than those two things is a good weapon.

Xenthos

Celina said:

Cavalier is great at bashing, they are the least effective at PK. They have solid group support with their impales, and high burst wounding though.

As an aside, I have to point out that you are not considering one key aspect here; Cavalier gets a wounding bonus on top of the 2h precision bonus on all attacks, so it is not just "burst wounding" (though that is indeed also an option).

I personally love Cavalier.  It is less "cheese" than some specs (no pinleg spam), but it has support in regards to pin, it has tendons, and it can do a heck of a lot of bleeding too.  I would not call it the least effective.  It is (in my opinion at least) the most complicated though.

Edit: When Cavalier came out, we were told by Estarra specifically to instruct newbies to not pick it because of the increased cost and complexity; newbies are highly advised to play another spec first to get the hang of being a warrior, and only look into Cavalier once they have a beast, know how to use it, and understand the fundamentals of the class.

Siam

I was never fond of things that take too long to kill, it was a waste of potions as a lowbie. Investing in the right skills and skillsets before you trans your guild skills will help you in the long run, as well.

Xenthos

Siam said:

I was never fond of things that take too long to kill, it was a waste of potions as a lowbie. Investing in the right skills and skillsets before you trans your guild skills will help you in the long run, as well.

This completely depends on the guild skills in question... for a warrior, you want to learn a decent amount in your weaponry skill (I usually suggest aiming for Virtuoso to start).  Your damage and miss rate are impacted significantly by how much you have invested in your weapon style, so you really do want to get that up sooner rather than later.  Getting Strength in Athletics helps too.

You can take a break for certain other easy-to-learn skills in other skillsets, but you really don't want to lose sight of damage improvement.  It's pretty important.

Karlach

Bashing is easy, and yet player to mob death is still the largest cause of deathsights on a day to day basis, save special PK occasions. And it's not just new people, I'm seeing experienced players die to cave fisher groups, so you can't dismissively wave your hand off and go "meh, lack of experience" to explain their deaths.

Sure at low level it's overkill, but again, if you don't have the credits to invest in the mitigation skills to make aslaran work without having to run whenever you see 2 cave fishers, you're going to have a bad time. At that point you're stuck either bashing Aslaran/Krokani camps in the Grey Moors and maybe doing loops of Snow Valley and a couple of other places, where the experience at that point is really really crap.

Siam

Hrm, how about max speed weapons? How much do they help?

Xenthos

Siam said:

Hrm, how about max speed weapons? How much do they help?

If you are a warrior and not bashing with max speed weapons (with everything else in damage), you are Doing Something Wrong.

Weapon skill and weapon speed are the two most important things with strength coming in next.  Weapon damage has a very minor effect but it does do a little).

Karlach

They're pretty much essential. Max out the speed, bottom the prec and use the remainder of points on damage.

Cyndarin

Morkarion said:

Bashing is easy, and yet player to mob death is still the largest cause of deathsights on a day to day basis, save special PK occasions. And it's not just new people, I'm seeing experienced players die to cave fisher groups, so you can't dismissively wave your hand off and go "meh, lack of experience" to explain their deaths.

Sure at low level it's overkill, but again, if you don't have the credits to invest in the mitigation skills to make aslaran work without having to run whenever you see 2 cave fishers, you're going to have a bad time. At that point you're stuck either bashing Aslaran/Krokani camps in the Grey Moors and maybe doing loops of Snow Valley and a couple of other places, where the experience at that point is really really crap.

You're over exaggerating and being ridiculous to prove your point, so I'm just going to smile and nod. LIke for real...I don't know where you learned to bash but there are a lot of options that aren't UV and the moors.

Speaking from experience, as someone who bashed to demigod as a low con caster in a world where cavefishers were much tougher (they've been nerfed) and the areas available to bash were fewer in number, you will be just fine as Aslaran. You will die, just like the tae'daes and Igashos of the world, but you will learn and the overwhelming majority of your time will not be spent praying. AND when you do die, you will learn the exp loss is almost literally nothing as you level up. You will not be stuck in the grey moors forever, grinding crappy mobs because you are too frail to venture out into the world. I promise you. Save your reincarnation for when it matters. You will thank me later.

Cyndarin

Plus now you have unlimited reincarnations during grace of innocence, so play around with whatever race blows your skirt up before you settle down.

Karlach

Celina said:
Speaking from experience

In a time of no-insanity astral, no mob resistances and pre-nerf Faelings?

That said, if you're going to argue, don't over-exaggerate people's points. No one said you'd spend all your time dying, and no one said the other races don't die at all. I said that 10 minute death scenes are a real time dampener on your killing speed. No you won't be perma dead, but you'll hit the deck more often as an Aslaran without credit investment into your skills, than you would a race with inbuilt mitigation and a decent health pool.

But I'm just basing examples of people who've been levelling recently, who find stepping out of the Moors/Snow Valley/Verasavir and into even the Asylum (with mob swarm death) and UV with the cave-fishers to be tricky, even at 70+ because they didn't have the mitigation through abilities to survive it. Which again goes back to the point I made (which you've overlooked.) Yes, you can level as Aslaran very well, if you are able to invest the credits into the lessons to give you the mitigation and EHP to bash with a reasonable uptime, if you can't, there's a good chance you will find yourself frustrated and the whole experience un-fun.

End of the day, it's .4 seconds per swing vs a couple of thousand HP and roughly 15-20% (ymmv) mitigation against most common damage types except fire (but Aslaran sure as hell won't help you there, hello flammable furballs) and in some cases health regeneration. Yes with investment, Aslaran is the absolute master race, but are you honestly trying to tell me that without the investment required to patch up the various downsides, it's still better for Knighthood levelling than picking a weapon spec race?

Cyndarin

:-? Sometimes I think you do think you know it all.

Astral insanity already existed when I started. Faeling casters were also essentially exactly the same as they are now. I think they had like a level 1 better sip bonus and 1 more strength. Mob resistance didn't exist, but neither did weaknesses.

Yes, I am telling you that Igasho, Dwarf, and Tae'dae are all trash races for warrior no matter the level of investment. Casters level up without igasho and tae'dae health all the time and are neither "frustrated" nor "un-fun," undermining your whole point.

But at this point I think they have plenty of info to figure it out for themselves.

Karlach

Casters also tend to level up through influencing, not bashing.

Xenthos

Morkarion said:

Casters also tend to level up through influencing, not bashing.

Something about this statement strikes me as off.  Maybe it's just that I've been playing for longer than influence has really been popular, but I've known plenty of caster-classes who preferred hunting to influencing during the leveling process (and focused more on that).

It may be that people who would prefer to influence choose classes which are better able to do so, but as far as people who enjoy hunting go, I don't think they crowd to Monk / Warrior to a significant degree.

Karlach

Since the existence of Ikons, and people being able to just focus on one skill tree and work various locations like hives/prison/chancel before moving on to Lirangsha/CP, just doing begging runs in most places tends to net them better xp/hour with minimal risk, and better income.

I rarely see anyone past 60 solo bashing their way to demigod these days, I see plenty looping around the various influence spots.

Nocht

Let's not be mean in front of the newbies.

Cyndarin

SORRY NEWBIE. WE LOVE YOU. COME GIVE US HUGS, I PROMISE NOT TO EAT YOUR FACE.

Rivius

- I looked at the wiki and Cavalier isn't mentioned when 'warrior archetypes' are brought up. You can be a Cavalier in the warrior guilds, right?

You can. You can't choose it right upon reaching mastery in Knighthood like you can with the other specializations. It requires a short, easy quest to unlock first before you can choose it. It's a fairly simple quest, however, and lower levelled characters can do it.

- Is Cavalier effective or should I consider doing something else as a newcomer?

It's pretty effective. It's unique to other specs in that you can choose between blunt and cutting damage, which gives you a bit of versatility when hunting. In PVP, it's also pretty flexible and fun and all around pretty well balanced for a warrior spec. Has some fair strengths and weaknesses. However, it is cost-heavy. You will need to invest a bit into beastmastery, afford a beast and be able to maintain it. There's also some inconveniences you'll need to pay a pretty penny to get around, but they're not too big a deal if you don't mind them too much.

- Is there a mudbot mapper + map laying around anywhere?

Most modern systems have a built in mapper. Lusternia provides XML data of the entire mapped regions of the game, and these systems usually run off that data as a base.

- What race is good/the best for warrior/knight archetypes?

Depends on what you want. If you want to squeeze the absolute most out of everything, in other words, be a min-maxer, go aslaran. Otherwise, you can do well with a lot of races, really. I think most warrior guilds you join will have some recommended races listed for you, and depending on how much you care for minor differences, you have a fair selection.

Everiine

I laugh at my guild's recommended races.

But I also suck at combat. It's a tradeoff.

Shuyin

Xieltalnara.googlepages.com is a more thorough wiki.

Lerad

That site is also outdated, too, but it's better than the actual wiki.

When I recommended a high con race, I was also speaking from experience. Lerad was originally a human, and as a fresh faced newbie bashing before the guard-summons for loyal levelling areas, I died fairly often, and had a hard time getting the motivation to do anything beyond oozes and patrolling Glomdoring for communefav- I mean, for elder trees. I decided to try for a hardier race and see if that helped. I never regretted having no more reincarnations and being locked out of influencing until I was demigod, because Illithoid bashing was such a marked improvement with everything else remaining the same. It probably helped a little that the weapon stat boosts for native weapon made me bash slightly faster, too.

I aetherbashed a lot from levels 91-95 or so thanks to Talan and Narynth, but almost everything after 96 onwards was muud and kephera, and I found that even with Illithoid tankiness and psymet regeneration, I still died on occasion. And gods, dying in prime enemy territory (that was before the enemy territory essence loss changes to not affect bashing areas was put in) was such a major blow that each time I died, I took a break for a couple of days. If I had been a less tanky race, I have zero doubts that I would have had a far, far more frustrating experience.

Of course, I may just have been a weak-kneed coward, without the stomach for real bashing and was thus using hardiness as a crutch. But if we're going to use personal experiences for recommendations (which is the only way to give recommendations, really) then I feel obliged to advocate slower races over aslaran or faeling or furrikin, because gods those races are squishy.

Shuyin

Squishy doesn't exist with the throne around.