New Celest

So here's the scoop. I've been alting in New Celest on a little Tahtetso alt, surprise, I'm Naraj. Most people I care about knew by this point, anyway.

I remember @Zouviqil mentioning something about being starved for roleplay in these places, and holy god do I feel like Spongebob without water. Fuckin' thirsty despite all these flooded rooms. So I'm here to outline what I think are the problems here, and I totally understand that they're going to sound inflammatory as hell. But what's a little healing without some stinging right.

1). That little group of sex alts that circulate between Gaudiguch and Hallifax have been burrowing into Celest and Serenwilde, and people are tolerating them. These are people that generally walk around being snooty little shits, deliberately stirring up drama and fornicating in manses. They also can't be bothered to use good grammar, and they tend to just drop off into AFK-itude while people are trying to converse with them. It's infuriating that these people get the spotlight just by virtue of the drama they cause,.

2). There is way too much blurring of lines between IC and OOC. I literally heard Daebach call the enemy group a "zerg" today, and Caerlyr calling an enemy caught out a "silly bitch". What the fuck? I don't want to hear that, that's shit I hear while playing League of Legends, not the classy Lusternia experience I desire.

NO ONE ROLEPLAYS. All I see is gigglemonsters Saoirse and Ayi (grandmistress of Discipline what) (thankfully, Saoirse and Ayi can both have their serious sides and are both fair GAs) bouncing up and down everywhere, and people just kinda look at them. Everyone else basically roleplays as themselves, except for the most superficial emotes and thoughts. @Preston appeared and started PRAISING THE SUN LIGHT aggressively, and despite him hamming it up deliberately, it's better than the generic "walk in the Light" or "be well" on the city aether I hear. By the way, the city aether is basically an enter/leave log, since no one strikes up interesting conversations. Jaamil namedrops Methrenton and Japhiel a few times. Ryboi's running around with his D'Varden family tahto (what is Humility) and Xena doesn't even attempt to roleplay (which is sad, because I knew her before she started playing Xena and she had a killer RP before that). Kelly tends to be oddly detached from everyone else, at least IC. Aquamancers are basically in the periphery, I never hear any cool scholarly talk or philosophy about Water basically ever. There're no sermons. Absolutely nothing but quasi-OOC commentary. The only droplet of RP I've gotten since rolling Naraj is attending a Paladin knighting ceremony that Snaithy presided over, and Snaithy doesn't log in much. Any RP I try to inject into the atmosphere is seemingly apathy'd away.

3). It's painfully obvious that all social interaction takes place in OOC clans. Painfully. Obvious.

4). I think classflex has run a little rampant in New Celest. It's blurring the lines of the guilds, just everyone doing their own little thing without really interacting with other people. I think if anyone stopped and actually read the guild scroll for Tahtetso, they'd realise that the guild should be rather selective if not completely refusing of allowing classflex students, since people that aren't in the Tahtetso are not following the Luminous Counsels or working towards Lumosis as they should be to temper their mind for monking.

---

Feel free to add more or dispute my findings. My discontent has run its course for now. I know it sounds like I'm just badmouthing all of you, but all I really want is for you guys to evaluate your RP and try a little harder. Your newbie retention isn't that great for a reason. Because today I was provoked and pushed enough to break my own Naraj's RP by making him confrontational and a little underhanded, and that has just soured my experience so much. Of course, that's mostly my fault and a discussion for another day.

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Comments

  • ZouviqilZouviqil Queen of Uberjerkiness
    edited April 2014
    I am not going to dispute your findings, but rather, support them.

    My alt was a Celestine Merian (I think she still exists!?) that did not look like your typical merian. Deep sea merian. Angler-fish inspired. I thought that this might be an interesting point to RP from. Awesome, time to look for RP!

    ... the only person I got RP from was @Aesic, briefly, for a test, and then, poof. Wait, no, I was flirted with at the Pool for 5 minutes until one of these lovely alts from that group you speak (who had been the one talking to me!) goes, "Oh, I didn't look at you, sorry, didn't notice you were a girl, haha!"

    Also, ye Gods, the influencers. If they aren't influencing, they're AFKing at the Pool. That's all anyone seems to do, influence and... be... non-existent...

    If my alt still exists, @Maligorn, let's find each other and do some attempt at Celest RP, okay?

    Also, if any Celestians would like to say, "You guys aren't looking in the right places for RP", well then, where? At least from my experiences in the different orgs, with Glomdoring and Hallifax (and even Magnagora and Gaudiguch, to lesser degrees in my experience), you are RPing constantly. Even empowering the guards is somewhat RPed, you're not empowering them, you're encouraging them to be stronger, reminding them of their worth to the commune/city, etc. Something I'm not seeing the orgs I've alted in elsewise.

    Edit: I would like to note however that Celest is actually bordering on excessive with asking how novices are doing. I and another who made an alt there at the time found that we did not go 5 minutes without someone asking us if we were okay. Not "how goes your learning" or "do you need help with anything" but "are you okay?" and I needed to say over CGT that if I need help I'll request it, and said person I was alting with suiciding their alt instead of continuing through with it.
  • KagatoKagato Auckland, New Zealand
    edited April 2014
    Hmmm, a little saddening to hear you have been having such a poor experience.  Unfortunately some of the things you have mentioned are indeed true to some extent. Sometimes I will log in and find myself being the only one on prime, with a good 10 people sitting off prime, yet if I address people on the aether, there is not so much as a single 'hello' in response.  If you are having trouble finding RP scenes, perhaps get one going yourself and set the ball rolling.

    While it will not be happening for a while, I'm planning out a big RP 'seminar' on some of the quests vital to Celests survival, explaining the quests, giving people a chance to ask questions, offer their own advice and so on, but it probably won't be for another week or so, I'm gathering all the info I can, plus I need to give people a little warning so they can make plans if they want to attend.

    Other than that, I'm always up for a good solid RP if I'm not already preoccupied (which isn't a heck of a lot lately unless I'm hunting), if you ever see Kagato, don't be afraid to approach him and start chatting with him or asking him questions.
    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    Belibi said:
    This "silly bitch" has snubbed Caerlyr for exactly that reason. If I wanted to get abused IC for being a dumb n00b, I'd go back to MKO.

    Probably off topic, sorry. Guess I just wanted to say that from my extremely limited perspective I agree.
    Man, I wasn't even referring to you, but she did slander you too didn't she. I was talking about Etra. But this just highlights how ugly things are here.

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  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    Look for Lorina and Regnaso. They were the only two I could get rp out of on my Celest alt. Everything else was silence. It's not as much fun to rp by yourself. These sort of complaints I also had with Magnagora for a while, it has improved drastically. I don't enjoy rp that is just a chatroom. I'm hoping it's just a slump. You have a new god Celest, avenues for much new rp! Take it and run with it and keep the city enjoyable for everyone!



  • KagatoKagato Auckland, New Zealand
    Lavinya said:
    Look for Lorina and Regnaso. They were the only two I could get rp out of on my Celest alt. Everything else was silence. It's not as much fun to rp by yourself. These sort of complaints I also had with Magnagora for a while, it has improved drastically. I don't enjoy rp that is just a chatroom. I'm hoping it's just a slump. You have a new god Celest, avenues for much new rp! Take it and run with it and keep the city enjoyable for everyone!
    I try to respond to people that approach me to start an RP, just lately I have been incredibly busy with work and university, as a result my time online suffered drastically and I was rarely around.  I'm pretty much making up for lost time and have been around a HECK of a lot more the past few days =p
    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    I'm hoping the return of @Meliana and a possible FESTIVAL OF LIGHT might perk things up.

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  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice
    edited April 2014
    Give us Carakhan Celest! We'll rp with her! I won't make her cry!
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • NeosNeos The Subtle Griefer
    Siam said:
    I won't make her cry!
    Too late.
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    Celina said:
    You can't really same the same, can you?
    Zvoltz said:
    "The Panthron"
  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice
    >:D<
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    You have a what room for what? Who's this saint fellow? You're going to do what? :x

    Thanks for posting here, I was fairly counting on it since I know you have plans for Celest & culturey stuff.

    Sorry for the criticism. I did take into account that Saoirse deliberately roleplays like that. Very Raziela-ey.

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  • And actually I just want to throw this out there but I suppose I really should put it in the raves..Lady Carakhan...I'm enamored! I love love love that she rps and I'm having so much fun with her! I just hope I'm not coming off as a brown noser! ALSO everyone else that has been visitng her has been stepping up the rp game which is great to see (some of you saw the log of Kelly explaining our history to her). 
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.
    The problem with celest is that the cool kids aren't as noticeable as others :/
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • I am pretty much in character all the time, but sadly... No one ever really approaches me for intense dialogue. Younger folks I do talk to have the alt thing going on, and don't give me the time of day... So I end up just RPing with the same old folks! I rarely find a young person willing to RP, and experience my Holy Mother roleplay stance I take. Heck, even right now, I am with Meliana and Saoirse as they plan ordainments and city rituals. >_>

    I think if you really want to RP, you need to engage folks. Hate to say it, but I never heard Naraj speak...

  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice
    For what it's worth, I have alted in Celest and was able to rp with a few select individuals just fine. Then...I got approached by a certain individual known for mudsexing, but I just ignored them and continued rping my little Celestian. ;)
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    While I can't speak to Celest-specific problems, having not played in Celest in a long time and not played seriously in Celest ever... I know that Naraj has a reputation in Serenwilde for displaying all of the problems you outline here: RE being a snooty little shit and stirring up drama.
  • For what it is worth, I have made numerous alts in almost every one of the cities/communes in the last few days just to see if I was missing out on anything that I wasn't getting in Glomdoring. The short and most a appropriate answer is certainly not. This has resulted in immediate suicide within the first hour of play.

    I am not sure if people in Celest and to a lesser extent Serenwilde think that because you play in an all round "good" org you should make an effort to act like a snuggly, but that certainly shouldn't be the case. In fact, with some organisations such as those members of the Celestines I would be expecting far more appropriate behavior than bouncing up and down on the spot and other such cringe worthy emotes. It makes me think that these type of people are dragging down Lusternia, demoting it from a RP-orientated game to a social chat room for teenagers.

    I am by no means anywhere near as experienced as some of you and indeed I have only dabbled in roleplay within the Harbingers and Glomdoring but if it arises I'll certainly jump at the opportunity to engage in it. Even if I am not actively in the mindframe to roleplay, I'll still go as far as tagging emotes onto my says and dish out some atmospheric emotes.

    Some people might think all I have done is influence/bash since I stepped through the portal, and yes you are correct, I have. That is mostly down to my own ambitions to get involved in the endgame more than anything else and lord knows to do that you have to spend a -lot- of time doing it! Although if I was ever approached to roleplay directly or inadvertently you could count on me. I personally try my best not to AFK in places that are busy such as the nexus or aetherplex or any some such because I feel that is just being rude and is also quite frankly immersion breaking if you ask someone something and they don't reply in a timely manner.

    I'd like to give a shout out to anyone in Glomdoring or Magnagora looking for some good roleplay, you'll certainly find some there if you look for it. Even if you aren't looking for it specifically, you'll find that there is always a constant aura or atmosphere that is brimming with potential for it.

    I hope this post made sense, I am tired sadly :( 
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    edited April 2014

    Lerad said:
    tl;dr - You don't want to let those who are blatantly running their mouth OOCly to continue to feel good. Give them constant nudges to move it to somewhere private. No one cares if they gloat as long as it is not visible. That is far more constructive than trying to stamp out gloating. If you succeed in doing the latter, you're a shoe in for a Nobel prize. I'll personally nominate you.
    I'd love to do this, but I really don't have the authority. I think this happens anyway though, when it gets out of line. I understand that OOC things happen in the middle of combat -- I'm guilty of it too -- but it still stands that it needs to be worked on to continue immersion.


    Lorina said:
    I think if you really want to RP, you need to engage folks. Hate to say it, but I never heard Naraj speak...
    I poke CT everytime I log in, and ask if all is well. Usually don't get an answer, figure everyone's doing their own thing, start gathering offering fodder for Carakhan. :/


    Tacita said:
    I wasn't aware I had a reputation as the RP police :S

    Anyway, more relevantly, I think it's important to highlight the difference between never fishing for RP and not being in a RP-positive environment. Lorina is 100% right that if you want RP you have to go looking for it and cannot expect it to come to you. I can't say whether or not this is part of the reason for Maligorn's bad experience, being neither him nor a player from Celest - but I doubt it is entirely down to that, even if he didn't speak up much.
    You're absolutely right. I am pretty bad about seeking roleplay on my own, or even creating my own, because I'm very bad at just starting things. It's like a trust fall into a playerbase that I'm not fully comfortable with yet (like I am with Hallifax). Also, I tend to be a reactive roleplayer. And I think most people are as such. That being said, if most people are reactive roleplayers, that means newbies coming in are likely to be reactive as well. When these newbies see little going on...they hop over to Glomdoring where it's hopping. And then the overarching problem of numbers in conflicts comes into play.


    Celina said:

    I really don't think public humilation is the best way to go about rebuilding a struggling org. Naming and shaming people like Kelly or Saorise really isn't going to accomplish much but foster negative feelings. People don't listen to constructive criticism if you start it with "This is why I think you suck..." 

    I think you're right, and I'm sorry. I wrote this in the wee hours of the morning, when I didn't really have my head on straight. My first post is really full of emotion, and I understand if that makes what I have to say less credible. I'm sorry for criticising y'all.


    Enyalida said:
    While I can't speak to Celest-specific problems, having not played in Celest in a long time and not played seriously in Celest ever... I know that Naraj has a reputation in Serenwilde for displaying all of the problems you outline here: RE being a snooty little shit and stirring up drama.
    This is probably true, and I'm sorry.


    Kelly said:
    I started on writing a longer post, but I shouldn't feel like I have to defend myself or explain on behalf of Celest. So I'll just say, sorry that the current Celest atmosphere, a rebuilding org, is not to your liking. We have not had any God direction for a long time, who are really the RP leaders of this game, and the Celest players have not prioritized RP in some time. I don't log in to RP, I log in to have fun, and that means something unique to every person. Sometimes I enjoy RP, but I don't like the insinuation that it should be our job to do so.

    I did contest for city leader with intent of stimulating RP, and I echo the excitement over a prospective new God, but building RP takes time and investment and if you can't get behind that and be a part of it then you'll have to look elsewhere for something more mature.
    I'm glad you log on to have fun. That's the point of a game. I wish you'd written your larger post, and called me out on things, but if you don't feel that's your prerogative, then that's fine too.

    At the same time, if everyone has the same mentality you do, nothing is going to get done about the RP problem. You don't like the insinuation that it's your job to roleplay? That sort of confuses me, since you did indeed contest for CL.

    In the end, I -do- have a nice, awesome even, roleplaying atmosphere to fall back on. I have a well-established character in that floaty city in the sky. Hallifax is doing really well for itself, and I'm so proud. But I want to help Celest in any way I can at this point. I want to make time and investment into it, and then hopefully move on to Serenwilde. I'm not a god tier roleplayer like Tacita, Zouviqil, Meliana or Nariah, but I do try.

    I hope that my (truly idiotic) actions involving Serenwilde haven't spoiled poor Naraj in the eyes of everyone else. All I want to do is help y'all out.

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  • Vivet said:
    Maligorn said:
    3). It's painfully obvious that all social interaction takes place in OOC clans. Painfully. Obvious.
    To be fair, I think this is something the game as a whole has been developing issues with, and needs more focus. Some orgs have been more successful than others, and it may not be as noticed/addressed, and may be way more poignant when various people are offline.
    This. I'm not the best at seeking out social interactions with people. Until I got inducted into one of the OOC family-centric clans in Glom I didn't really know anybody except my IG father. Granted, part of this was the general lack of people in Blacktalon but there are definitely alot of people who I'd love to get to know better that I haven't really had any reason to interact much.
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  • Vivet said:

    Maligorn said:


    3). It's painfully obvious that all social interaction takes place in OOC clans. Painfully. Obvious.

    To be fair, I think this is something the game as a whole has been developing issues with, and needs more focus. Some orgs have been more successful than others, and it may not be as noticed/addressed, and may be way more poignant when various people are offline.

    I do wish CTELLS, GTELLS, etc came with time stamps, so you can see how long it's been since whatever might have been said besides, "Hi" and "Bye", and it might give more incentive and initiative to people to reach out and interact.

    But what if I don't waaant to interact with people.  :P

    More seriously though. The best way to get a good roleplay going is to have a good idea what to roleplay about, and then act upon it. I was originally gonna say that you need a good whole to be part of in most instances, but in the end that isn't true. I didn't need Hallifax to be a field researcher in Celest, and if Hallifax hadn't come out, I would still be proposing my mad science stuff. Just maybe with a slightly different angle to properly sell it.

    Anyway, my main point is. Be the change you want to see. You'll have a lot more fun in the long run that way. Even if no one agrees, do it anyway. It'll be a terrific story later on.
    Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
  • KaimanahiKaimanahi The One True Queen
    Maligorn said:
    I'm glad you log on to have fun. That's the point of a game. I wish you'd written your larger post, and called me out on things, but if you don't feel that's your prerogative, then that's fine too.

    At the same time, if everyone has the same mentality you do, nothing is going to get done about the RP problem. You don't like the insinuation that it's your job to roleplay? That sort of confuses me, since you did indeed contest for CL.
    I meant that, while fun at times, roleplaying is not something I am usually looking for when I log in, nor should I feel that I have to. The minimum criteria to the RP-enforced aspect of the game is to have a character with a role that fits within the bounds of the world and acts accordingly, and anything more should be at the discretion of the player. There are people who play because they really like to roleplay, but that mentality should not be expected of everyone. So essentially demanding that others invest into an aspect of the game that doesn't appeal to them isn't very reasonable, is the point I was trying to make.

    Referring to the second quoted paragraph, I meant that it is not any player's job to have to roleplay, along the lines of what I just said. I'm not saying that I personally am not going to roleplay; rather I have been embracing the role of helping to stimulate Celest's RP. Again, it's not something that's going to happen immediately, and hopefully you stick around to be a part of it. In my opinion, this (cases like now-Celest) is where the excitement is - building up something from nothing, and having ownership in it. I would rather put my mark on a project than to play by someone else's rules or preconceived notions. 

    There's always opportunities, it's just a matter of having the patience and drive to see it through.
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  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne
    Understood.

    I'm curious to know what you think shattered Celest in the first place, since you keep using the word "rebuilding". I mean, it's not like it was Shallam'd. Is a bit off topic though, maybe we could take it to PMs.

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