Also, the above quest is why rockeaters sometimes drop glowing stones. I'm sure a lot of you always wondered.
I thought those were for the waystation quest. How do you start the Old Man rock quest?
The items for the Waystation quests existed before the quests themselves were implemented (with the possible exceptions of the jar of honey for Kioul, the perfect valley rose, and the flour / dough from Acknor). Not many new items were created, they just latched on to existing quests.
For the Old Man Rock, you need to scale up in the Southern mountain area and look for his cave. IIRC, the room name itself is a clue for this one. Something about an opening, or a cave, or some such.
But isn't it more about that Earth and the other three elements are in everything? All mortals (And sharded so and sos and the like) have fire, air, water and earth in them. So, shouldn't Rock, unless he somehow went off with Ackleberry.
Now that I think about it, I do remember Rock being one of the totems in the Totems skill. I never thought about it before. Guess he's a nature spirit like the rest.
Rock and Earth, Sun and Fire, Lake and Water, and Tree for air? Each plane has a totemic counterpart maybe.
A masked taurian exclaims, "Sugoi! Gorlois-kun is kawaii, uguu~!"
I would argue that the idea that all mortals are created of the elements is a belief which would be up to each individual, rather than a fact of the world. I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain there isn't anything which plainly dictates that is the case, but I'm not a huge history buff (yet). Even if it is the case that a god has stated it in the histories, the gods themselves are fallible. I think the only solid case for it would be if a Weaver explained it, which I doubt would happen.
I would suggest that our characters are instead created of aether. But like I said, I'm no huge history/lore buff (yet).
But isn't it more about that Earth and the other three elements are in everything? All mortals (And sharded so and sos and the like) have fire, air, water and earth in them. So, shouldn't Rock, unless he somehow went off with Ackleberry.
That is primarily an argument that Geomancers make, that Earth is in all, thus everything is tainted. Not everyone agrees with that argument in part or full, or accepts the implications. As far as I know, there's not enough facts to make a definitive statement in either way OOCly.
But isn't it more about that Earth and the other three elements are in everything? All mortals (And sharded so and sos and the like) have fire, air, water and earth in them. So, shouldn't Rock, unless he somehow went off with Ackleberry.
That is primarily an argument that Geomancers make, that Earth is in all, thus everything is tainted. Not everyone agrees with that argument in part or full, or accepts the implications. As far as I know, there's not enough facts to make a definitive statement in either way OOCly.
I can't speak for the guild, as this I the first time around in which I'm sitting down and studying, but I can speak for Liok. Liok does *not* believe that Earth is in all, but instead that Earth was merely the most open to change. But again, that's just a personal point, and may be subject to change in the upcoming years.
But isn't it more about that Earth and the other three elements are in everything? All mortals (And sharded so and sos and the like) have fire, air, water and earth in them. So, shouldn't Rock, unless he somehow went off with Ackleberry.
That is primarily an argument that Geomancers make, that Earth is in all, thus everything is tainted. Not everyone agrees with that argument in part or full, or accepts the implications. As far as I know, there's not enough facts to make a definitive statement in either way OOCly.
I can't speak for the guild, as this I the first time around in which I'm sitting down and studying, but I can speak for Liok. Liok does *not* believe that Earth is in all, but instead that Earth was merely the most open to change. But again, that's just a personal point, and may be subject to change in the upcoming years.
Well it's been years since I was a Geomancer, but such arguments were in various literature published by the Geomancers.
That is an odd argument, especially given IC sources (spiritbond rock even makes you harder to move). I have always felt that Earth was hit not because of any special property, but simply because the channel that was tapped flowed through it. All of Kethuru's essence flooded Shallamar, then Earth, and once they were thoroughly bent to His will it continued onwards to the next stop (the Basin) where it was eventually stopped.
Geomancers saying that Earth is in everything is a fine argument (as long as the outer Planes and bubbles are excluded). Prime is a mishmash of all the elements blended together, so that could be an interesting theological discussion.
I am just a bit taken aback by the notion of Earth being more malleable than Air, Water, or Fire!
Interestingly enough, the Tahtetso originally had hints of that same concept built into it - that mortal existence was inherently flawed due in part to the existence of a Tainted Earth plane. This is not to say that such flaws didn't exist before Cosmic Hope and aftermath, but rather that the corruption of the Earth plane is a fault in the whole of reality - mortals live in a Tainted reality and are susceptible to inheriting faults. To begin to rectify this requires, among other things, a divorcement from the Earth plane's influence. See the Harmony skillset's convenient exclusion of Earth in its utilization of the Taoist elements as opposed to classic Greek elements. Blend Taoist concepts with Supernal philosophies to result in Tahtetso guild dogma and metaphysical/moral perspective re: body, spirit, mind and enlightenment.
Much of that was watered down, or put to the wayside as emphasis was put more into 'what we (should) do' rather than 'how we got here'. You can still see remnants of these concepts buried in old clan helpfiles.
There was a point during the guild's founding that we discussed the idea of Earth's corruption being inherent in all beings, a la the Greek elements. Harmony, then, was a way of training the body/mind/spirit in a way that avoided the (Tainted) Earth component entirely. I've sometimes wondered how things would have gone if we had chosen to push that idea to the forefront. In the end, it was quashed due to the desire to keep the Pool and Celestia 'pure', as though frequent raids from Magnagora and Geomancer melds don't count. Viscanti weren't allowed to touch the Pool. Putting forth the assumption that all mortals were at least a little impure would have made some hardline arguments like this difficult.
Regarding technology advancement, it seems to me like we should be seeing magic-as-technology a lot more than we have. The only thing keeping it from being rapid development is due to the relatively small population. The whole of the Basin is only one small part of the planet. There are only so many people living in this acreage.
Still, magic carpet taxis, illusion-projecting broadcast systems and wands of energyblast (with convenient pistol grips) seem like they should be cropping up sooner or later.
Regarding technology advancement, it seems to
me like we should be seeing magic-as-technology a lot more than we
have. The only thing keeping it from being rapid development is due to
the relatively small population. The whole of the Basin is only one
small part of the planet. There are only so many people living in this
acreage.
Still, magic carpet taxis, illusion-projecting broadcast
systems and wands of energyblast (with convenient pistol grips) seem
like they should be cropping up sooner or later.
Lusternia is such a high magic setting that, honestly, none of that is necessary. IC, everyone can walk/run just about anywhere in the Basin within the in-game hour, and can teleport around with a modicum of effort and some aetheric power. Everyone learns early in their lessons how to defend themselves with magical blasts, dangerous tones, or deadly martial strikes. Most importantly, everyone learns how to psychically/magically communicate with every other intelligent creature in the Basin, or even multiple creatures at once. All of this is without the use of any equipment at all; if necessity is the mother of invention, what motivation is there to create magic items that replicate things that everyone can already do with basic training?
Wait wait wait. Earth is most open to change?
That is an odd argument, especially given IC sources (spiritbond rock even makes you harder to move). I have always felt that Earth was hit not because of any special property, but simply because the channel that was tapped flowed through it. All of Kethuru's essence flooded Shallamar, then Earth, and once they were thoroughly bent to His will it continued onwards to the next stop (the Basin) where it was eventually stopped.
Geomancers saying that Earth is in everything is a fine argument (as long as the outer Planes and bubbles are excluded). Prime is a mishmash of all the elements blended together, so that could be an interesting theological discussion.
I am just a bit taken aback by the notion of Earth being more malleable than Air, Water, or Fire!
Liok believes that the Taint does not simply transform that which it touches. Instead, it is a catalyst, of sorts. Should the taint be forced upon someone who was unwilling to wager his or her soul for the power the Taint offers, it would simply consume them entirely, creating either death or an undead pawn. However, should the Taint be accepted, it allows for a glorious transformation. The result may be aesthetically disturbing to most individuals, but it is powerful, and that is the purpose. It is a thirst for power, or possibly survival through its power, which causes the change.
When Liok looks upon Earth and Nil, he sees lands which has accepted the Taint for what it is: a magnificent source of power. The Demon Lords have not only been changed, but given gifts of excellence. It is these gifts that we should study. Earth was not destroyed by the Taint, but instead transformed into a glorious place of strength and destruction. This is why he feels at its core, Earth itself greeted the Taint. Earth allowed the Taint to transform its very existence into what it is now, the Earthen Plane from which Geomancy derives its power. Perhaps it did this as a means of survival? Perhaps Earth is closer to mortality than we think, and wished to gain the power the Taint promises? If that makes it sound as if Earth has some sort of sentience, it probably should, as Liok sees Earth itself as a living... thing.
Though his time in Glomdoring was short, he was always fascinated by the way the Taint/Wyrd differentiation. He tried to understand it a little, but his personal matters got in the way. What he drew from his brief and fleeting conversations among the forest was that when Hallifax blew the cloud of Taint from its borders and towards the Glorianna, it had two choices: die or change. Instead of dying it, it evolved into the Wyrd and into Glomdoring. This is a parallel situation for Liok, Earth and Glomdoring.
But, as I said, Liok may have years, but he is still infantile as a scholar. He is still learning, and much like he feels mortals should be, open to change. The more he reads and the more he hears, the more his own beliefs of the Basin twist and unfold. He will never settle into one, fervent belief, as that is simply not who he is.
Also, I don't want to start up forum-RP about this. If anyone (Xenthos, you especially), would want to talk about it, send me a message and we can arrange something in-game. Liok still thinks incredibly highly of Glomdoring, and wishes to study more of the beliefs found there. It is only natural that he reach out to those in its highest respects.
Edit: I don't want that last bit to sound pretentious, or anything. Seeing as how I just blabbered on about RP-ish things and then I'm all like I DON'T WANT FORUM-RP. I'm just trying to clarify a little, and honestly, would love to have some in-game interaction about it instead of OOC interaction. It's just more fun that way!
But isn't it more about that Earth and the other three elements are in everything? All mortals (And sharded so and sos and the like) have fire, air, water and earth in them. So, shouldn't Rock, unless he somehow went off with Ackleberry.
Now that I think about it, I do remember Rock being one of the totems in the Totems skill. I never thought about it before. Guess he's a nature spirit like the rest.
Rock and Earth, Sun and Fire, Lake and Water, and Tree for air? Each plane has a totemic counterpart maybe.
For an example of an alternative viewpoint the Institute teaches that reality is made of six different energies ( matching up with our weapons ) and makes no mention of the classical elements specifically ( if anything they're just a different type of planar matter ). Used to have discussions/arguments with Iytha about it IG.
Not entirely here or there, but there isn't exactly a unified explanation.
.oO---~---Oo.
"Perfect. Please move quickly to the next post, as the effects of
prolonged exposure to the signature are not part of this test."
Also remember the nature of the planar layers - water is wrapped about Celestia, like a womb, just like Air is about the Continuum (crèche of Xyl), and so on.
Things to think on: Are elemental planes associated with only one cosmic plane? Multiple? Imagine how many crèches are out there. What kind of a relation do you think the elemental planes have with the Prime Material and Ethereal planes? Do you think Fae who are closely associated with the Earth like Rock and Groundhog are corrupted, more likely to be corrupted, or?
I think there's an argument to be made that gods are fully formed and so distinct from their crèche - and so would their shards be. While Air might have been related to Xyl on some level in terms of its vibrations nurturing him as being "below" Continuum, anything that happens to Air doesn't happen retroactively to those born of it (nor their shards). Still, drawing on a tainted source like Nil or Earth (especially elemental planes where you're even more manipulating the unformed, raw energy) would no doubt have an effect on you, I'd think.
Of course, you could argue another matter entirely.
Anyways - the real important thing is writing a book or piece on it. In game. For your city. (Especially Celest.)
It's not my original idea I just got it from Iytha. She knows a lot.
Someone mentioned the tahtetso, but apparantly the Kephera include metal and wood in fire, air, earth and water. Like Chinese wu xing ? I think is the term for that. Not exact but.
A masked taurian exclaims, "Sugoi! Gorlois-kun is kawaii, uguu~!"
But isn't it more about that Earth and the other three elements are in everything? All mortals (And sharded so and sos and the like) have fire, air, water and earth in them. So, shouldn't Rock, unless he somehow went off with Ackleberry.
Now that I think about it, I do remember Rock being one of the totems in the Totems skill. I never thought about it before. Guess he's a nature spirit like the rest.
Rock and Earth, Sun and Fire, Lake and Water, and Tree for air? Each plane has a totemic counterpart maybe.
For an example of an alternative viewpoint the Institute teaches that reality is made of six different energies ( matching up with our weapons ) and makes no mention of the classical elements specifically ( if anything they're just a different type of planar matter ). Used to have discussions/arguments with Iytha about it IG.
Not entirely here or there, but there isn't exactly a unified explanation.
I meant to make a comment but it slipped my mind.
I think your "another form of planar matter" is probably pretty close - IIRC, the various departments of the institute have a very analytical and quantitative approach to matter, physics and metaphysics. They're all about dividing and classifying everything into its function and nature, particularly for practical application. I'm pretty sure they more or less cover everything, from the arcane to the physical to temporal to higher vibrations to the two primal forces that underly reality (Immanidivinus - that of the soul - and the excoroperditio - that of the antisoul) - albeit in a very cold, calculated manner. They're pragmatists, so it's all about how it can be applied. Admittedly, it's been since we built and released Hallifax through the Institute since I've given it much mind. I remember it being pretty "efficient" and true to Hallifax's nature - with the Elementals being grouped in under a general "planar wave" grouping or something.
I can't wait to see what you come up with! I'm always trying to push people to publish deeper thought stuff. Those poor divine scholars can only read so many analyses of rockeater mating habits before they go cray.
I always find the issue with these discussions is that they inevitably end up occurring on the forums and rarely actually in-game, (I really miss Elo's order when it spread across the basin, it was amazing for this kind of thing)
There are a few things that don't make sense to me personally.
For example the disconnect between the idea that there are many, many more cosmic creches than we can reach right now due to the thousands of elder gods that once existed and the statements that they are wrapped around an elemental plane (and we expect that they are not only attached during the growth stages due to the connections of vortex and continuum).
The two ideas that spawn from this are either the connection is actually in the reverse and the elemental planes wrap around various cosmic planes, or that "the" water plane, for example, is not "the" water plane but "a" water plane. That or there were only ever four creches at any time with Xyl being like one of the last elders ever born (so Dynara would remove the creche when she is starting a new one).
But this only leaves me with the impression that the elemental plane is a massive unexplored expanse.
(They refer to crèches like Continuum as "dead" in the Elder Wars because the gods had all grown up and left. I believe the plane grows with the gods - see Vortex, which is itself in the flux before being. It would have grown into something more stable as time went on, had Dynara finished. And the Elemental Planes ARE massive. Part of the reason the areas loop is to help add to that perception of vastness. Maps really hurt that, though. )
Looping areas doesn't really add to the perception of being larger, because when it loops you're just back in one of the rooms you've already been in. The area still could be a teeny little self-contained bubble (and that's what it ends up feeling like). The number of rooms drives a huge amount of the perception, even though room count really isn't a good indication of size.
THEORIES ABOUND.
(They refer to crèches like Continuum
as "dead" in the Elder Wars because the gods had all grown up and left. I believe the plane grows with the gods - see Vortex, which is itself in the flux before being. It would have grown into something more stable as time went on, had Dynara finished. And the Elemental Planes ARE massive. Part of the reason the areas loop is to help add to that perception of vastness. Maps really hurt that, though. )
It's not just maps though, like even before them when I was a newbie it was still just a matter of wandering a couple rooms in any particular direction until you stumbled upon what you were after in comparison to say the inner sea where I've spent a decent amount of time actually searching for random stuff on whims.
Combined with that is that the elemental plane is wrapped around the cosmic you can sorta go "Well... Celestia really isn't that big either".
Trying to think of it... I could see ethereal maybe being the size of a theme park where like each main section is roughly a "world" in there, but that still feels like there'd just be a lot of empty space.
For me I guess what makes a place feel larger is well... how long until I feel like I've explored it sufficiently. I guess say... the Meliashmora feels bigger, Frosticia definitely does, as does Xion.
I feel the only real way that the other planes will feel like they are large and expansive is if they get a significant boost in size and interactivity, like... if I could do stuff on the water plane (outside the "celest" zone) that'd be cool and make it seem like a larger place.
I'm not sure where I would put the basin in terms of advancement. Magnagora has a fair amount of steampunk with pipes and engines so at the very least there is an early industrial presence.
Then there is some fairly advanced technology with magical flair, with aether based radio type transmissions (tainted broadcasting tower) and aetherships are pretty freaking tech heavy (yet somehow kinda still living beings), there are the sneaky gnomes with all their fancy toys, not to mention the whole new aerochem with lazers/proton packs tearing things up.
Technology doesn't seem to have much of a day to day use for most of us though. For crying out lout hot air balloons are not even safe for use yet.
I think lusternia does a good job of striking a balance of high magic with a touch of techno magic thrown in though.
Comments
The items for the Waystation quests existed before the quests themselves were implemented (with the possible exceptions of the jar of honey for Kioul, the perfect valley rose, and the flour / dough from Acknor). Not many new items were created, they just latched on to existing quests.
For the Old Man Rock, you need to scale up in the Southern mountain area and look for his cave. IIRC, the room name itself is a clue for this one. Something about an opening, or a cave, or some such.
I would suggest that our characters are instead created of aether. But like I said, I'm no huge history/lore buff (yet).
I can't speak for the guild, as this I the first time around in which I'm sitting down and studying, but I can speak for Liok. Liok does *not* believe that Earth is in all, but instead that Earth was merely the most open to change. But again, that's just a personal point, and may be subject to change in the upcoming years.
Well it's been years since I was a Geomancer, but such arguments were in various literature published by the Geomancers.
That is an odd argument, especially given IC sources (spiritbond rock even makes you harder to move). I have always felt that Earth was hit not because of any special property, but simply because the channel that was tapped flowed through it. All of Kethuru's essence flooded Shallamar, then Earth, and once they were thoroughly bent to His will it continued onwards to the next stop (the Basin) where it was eventually stopped.
Geomancers saying that Earth is in everything is a fine argument (as long as the outer Planes and bubbles are excluded). Prime is a mishmash of all the elements blended together, so that could be an interesting theological discussion.
I am just a bit taken aback by the notion of Earth being more malleable than Air, Water, or Fire!
Much of that was watered down, or put to the wayside as emphasis was put more into 'what we (should) do' rather than 'how we got here'. You can still see remnants of these concepts buried in old clan helpfiles.
There was a point during the guild's founding that we discussed the idea of Earth's corruption being inherent in all beings, a la the Greek elements. Harmony, then, was a way of training the body/mind/spirit in a way that avoided the (Tainted) Earth component entirely. I've sometimes wondered how things would have gone if we had chosen to push that idea to the forefront. In the end, it was quashed due to the desire to keep the Pool and Celestia 'pure', as though frequent raids from Magnagora and Geomancer melds don't count. Viscanti weren't allowed to touch the Pool. Putting forth the assumption that all mortals were at least a little impure would have made some hardline arguments like this difficult.
Still, magic carpet taxis, illusion-projecting broadcast systems and wands of energyblast (with convenient pistol grips) seem like they should be cropping up sooner or later.
NARF!
Writing an article about it.
Also remember the nature of the planar layers - water is wrapped about Celestia, like a womb, just like Air is about the Continuum (crèche of Xyl), and so on.
Things to think on: Are elemental planes associated with only one cosmic plane? Multiple? Imagine how many crèches are out there. What kind of a relation do you think the elemental planes have with the Prime Material and Ethereal planes? Do you think Fae who are closely associated with the Earth like Rock and Groundhog are corrupted, more likely to be corrupted, or?
I think there's an argument to be made that gods are fully formed and so distinct from their crèche - and so would their shards be. While Air might have been related to Xyl on some level in terms of its vibrations nurturing him as being "below" Continuum, anything that happens to Air doesn't happen retroactively to those born of it (nor their shards). Still, drawing on a tainted source like Nil or Earth (especially elemental planes where you're even more manipulating the unformed, raw energy) would no doubt have an effect on you, I'd think.
Of course, you could argue another matter entirely.
Anyways - the real important thing is writing a book or piece on it. In game. For your city. (Especially Celest.)
NARF!
I meant to make a comment but it slipped my mind.
I think your "another form of planar matter" is probably pretty close - IIRC, the various departments of the institute have a very analytical and quantitative approach to matter, physics and metaphysics. They're all about dividing and classifying everything into its function and nature, particularly for practical application. I'm pretty sure they more or less cover everything, from the arcane to the physical to temporal to higher vibrations to the two primal forces that underly reality (Immanidivinus - that of the soul - and the excoroperditio - that of the antisoul) - albeit in a very cold, calculated manner. They're pragmatists, so it's all about how it can be applied. Admittedly, it's been since we built and released Hallifax through the Institute since I've given it much mind. I remember it being pretty "efficient" and true to Hallifax's nature - with the Elementals being grouped in under a general "planar wave" grouping or something.
I can't wait to see what you come up with! I'm always trying to push people to publish deeper thought stuff. Those poor divine scholars can only read so many analyses of rockeater mating habits before they go cray.
I always find the issue with these discussions is that they inevitably end up occurring on the forums and rarely actually in-game, (I really miss Elo's order when it spread across the basin, it was amazing for this kind of thing)
There are a few things that don't make sense to me personally.
For example the disconnect between the idea that there are many, many more cosmic creches than we can reach right now due to the thousands of elder gods that once existed and the statements that they are wrapped around an elemental plane (and we expect that they are not only attached during the growth stages due to the connections of vortex and continuum).
The two ideas that spawn from this are either the connection is actually in the reverse and the elemental planes wrap around various cosmic planes, or that "the" water plane, for example, is not "the" water plane but "a" water plane. That or there were only ever four creches at any time with Xyl being like one of the last elders ever born (so Dynara would remove the creche when she is starting a new one).
But this only leaves me with the impression that the elemental plane is a massive unexplored expanse.
(They refer to crèches like Continuum
as "dead" in the Elder Wars because the gods had all grown up and left. I believe the plane grows with the gods - see Vortex, which is itself in the flux before being. It would have grown into something more stable as time went on, had Dynara finished. And the Elemental Planes ARE massive. Part of the reason the areas loop is to help add to that perception of vastness. Maps really hurt that, though.
Then there is some fairly advanced technology with magical flair, with aether based radio type transmissions (tainted broadcasting tower) and aetherships are pretty freaking tech heavy (yet somehow kinda still living beings), there are the sneaky gnomes with all their fancy toys, not to mention the whole new aerochem with lazers/proton packs tearing things up.