Aetherflares and Space: The War of Bubblixes

Several times I've made my distaste for aetherflares quite apparent, and people have asked me why it is I hate them so much (even refuse to participate). Written below are the reasons why I dislike aetherflares and hopes that one day these noted issues (my opinions naturally) would somehow be rectified.

1. The one with the most bubblixes wins!

Every flare starts the same, the moment the Aether Rings explode, the first thing you'll read anywhere is "Who has a bubblix?". This wonderful transportation item, purchasable by dingbats, gives people and the org they are loyal to a -massive- advantage in being able to not only setup their ships quickly, but also transport individuals and others quickly to that location. Why It is I hate it so much? Because a mechanic like this that gives such a large advantage is the definition of "Pay to Win", which I personally hate. Add an Aethership whistle with the bubblix and you practically have the full set of "easy aetherspace". Even if someone was proficient enough to flashpoint back and forth, it is still far faster and cheaper (not to mention safer) to simply use bubblixes. It is almost becoming a necessary requirement to aether-anything. The same problem basically translates to Domoth upgrading as well. Have a bubblix, and you gain the massive advantage.

2. Aether Combat

I find Aether combat to be so two-dimensional: Who can blow up the other ship first. Yes there are all these special pilot manuevers and extra turret attacks, but frankly that's like saying we have a web enchantment for combat, it's just an addition to the mechanic. Additionally, there is the problem of the Crew...which I will get to point 3.

3. Aether Crews

Let's face it, we dont actually have the numbers to set a full crew for several ships these days. Maximum we will see 1 -MAYBE- 2 ships with a full crew. These days we are mostly seeing 3 to 4 ships floating about with usually 1 guy on board at a turret praying he isnt focused. Additionally, and this isnt a very big issue but, to even function in an aether position requires learning a new branch of combat mechanics for new players, additionally some lesson investment in aethercraft to even bombard. When compared with village revolts, most revolts will basically be about the same old conquest of group vs group combat, maybe at times debating (which is quite a simple mechanic to figure out). Any player can gain the full set of required skills for a revolt simply by gaining city/commune favors.

4. Overload

Though this isnt technically only about aetherflares, but I frankly feel at times there is just far too many conflict systems that need to all be handled by organizations. Revolts, Domoths, Wild Nodes, Manifestations, Aetherflares. It becomes to the point that people can burn themselves out simply by attempting to keep their team up on the scoreboard. Yes, players could 'easily' ignore them and let them lose, but it is like ignoring your favorite football team and not caring that it will lose in the finals, it just isnt going to happen.


Suggestions:


1. Whenever a flare occurs, allow players the ability to transport themselves to a Ring in play. Additionally, increase the functionality of crafted constructs so that we may see people actually use them. This would create the possibility for players to attempt to claim a bubble on land, especially newer players.

2. Not much to say here. Aether combat is what it is.

3. Crews. One thing I -loved- in an Achaean mechanic was that players whom owned a ship could hire a group of NPCs as their crew. They could then order them each to do basic commands as the player would guide their ship along. I found this wonderful as it allowed for single player flexibility as well as removed any crux of 'need more players to use'. I would love if we were able to hire a group of gnome or fink crewmen for an owned aethership that can be set to modules. Obviously special coding would have to go into place to avoid people abusing this for quick XP. Just imagine if we could actually have 3 or 4 fully crewed aetherships during aetherflares fighting another fleet. Now -that- would be Aether warfare.

4. I'd like if time frames between some conflicts were increased. Perhaps Aetherflares could be increased from their current 12 day cycle to 20. Perhaps the same can be said about manifestations, but I have other suggestions for those annoyances for another time.
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Comments

  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me.
    Use beacons.
    image
  • "Just imagine if we could actually have 3 or 4 fully crewed aetherships during aetherflares fighting another fleet."

    But why? Just for the sake of making it look better? The org that would already win by virtue of having the most poorly-manned ships would now win by the virtue of having the most aetherNPC manned ships. Seems to not solve a problem.
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  • Shuyin said:
    Use beacons.
    Had forgotten about those, but situation still stands that you have to get to the bubble initially to place it, however it is definitely a good solution for domoths.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    You can't use a beacon during  a domoth. Beacons also don't solve the 'it's really a massve, massive advantage to have a bubblix' problem. The easiest solution to that particular problem is to slow the use of bubblixes during an aetherflare, a la distort.


  • Beacons are aetherflares only. They are not usable for domoths.

    Glomdoring maintains a fleet of travelships (as do most other orgs, most likely) for the express purpose of circumventing the need for a bubblix. For aetherflares, bubblixes are actually far less important than for domoths. Once you get there, you can set up a beacon, and even if you don't, just get on the ships and start firing. If your ship goes boom... then you'll need to drive the ship back anyway, because there's no point if you bubblix back up and there's no ship for you to board. In short, having a bubblix does not actually give as much advantage as not getting blown up in the first place.

    Not being able to field a full aethercrew is just... the result of our lack of population (which is another can of worms entirely) as well as the random timing factor of these conflict systems. To field a full battleship crew, five people are needed. Not having five capable crew available at the time of a flare is... not uncommon, and not really preventable either. NPCs aren't going to solve the problem, but well, it could be worth a try to see if it spices things up.

  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    The org that is best prepared helps. We don't rely on bubblixes at all. Flashpoints! Ships already docked on the bubble and one or two ready to transport everyone to then jump into the ships. I've won flares with only me in a ship and one person in another ship. And yes, we got fired at, but being prepared and at the bubble in moments (again, no bubblix) gave us a good headstart.

    I wish that bombard was a lower skill in planar. There is literally next to nothing anyone can do who doesn't have some aethercraft skill. At least in revolts, novices can watch for people to shuffle etc. In aetherflares, it comes down to having crews with aethercraft skill. Maybe bombarding should be linked somehow to city rank (like city influences), though I have no idea how, just thinking out loud. The system isn't that bad but my biggest complaint definitely is how the skills limit usefulness of people.



  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals
    I think flares are pretty much okay, and aethercombat in particular really doesn't need much to help it. We all just need more experience with it.

    If anything needs to be looked at, it might be potentially unlimited hull size. Maybe if there was some turret power skill that always takes off a hefty % of hull if it hits... else, you get what you pay for in terms of advantage.

    I'd also be cool with bubblixes being disabled during flares. It honestly won't affect that much - what it will do is favour a bit more extra prep, perhaps having multiple ships with flashes.

  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    Lavinya said:

    I wish that bombard was a lower skill in planar. There is literally next to nothing anyone can do who doesn't have some aethercraft skill. At least in revolts, novices can watch for people to shuffle etc. In aetherflares, it comes down to having crews with aethercraft skill.
    This, so much this, if we're going to make aetherflares more accessible, bombard needs to be a much lower skill. Where it's currently placed is too high for f2p people who haven't been able to generate the credits in game to invest in said skills.

    I appreciate the credit and skill model can give a better QoL or combat advantage to those who invest, but it shouldn't lock out those who don't from being able to partake in an event.


    One note on travel ships, Glomdoring last year had to take the draconian measure of limiting who had access to its travelships when someone made an alt with the sole purpose of flying them off the dock when flares were due and getting them destroyed, thus losing their flashpoints. They're an alternative to bubblixes but by no means a direct substitute.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    edited October 2014
    Agreed, they aren't as much of a priority as with domoths, because there is no ground battle to speak of. 

    Aethercraft is such  a weird skillset, because beyond a few basic skills, you can't use the vast majority of the skillset at all by yourself. The primary use of the skillset is organizational, but you need to shell out substantial personal resources to learn it.
  • Lerad said:
    Beacons are aetherflares only. They are not usable for domoths.

    Glomdoring maintains a fleet of travelships (as do most other orgs, most likely) for the express purpose of circumventing the need for a bubblix. For aetherflares, bubblixes are actually far less important than for domoths. Once you get there, you can set up a beacon, and even if you don't, just get on the ships and start firing. If your ship goes boom... then you'll need to drive the ship back anyway, because there's no point if you bubblix back up and there's no ship for you to board. In short, having a bubblix does not actually give as much advantage as not getting blown up in the first place.

    Not being able to field a full aethercrew is just... the result of our lack of population (which is another can of worms entirely) as well as the random timing factor of these conflict systems. To field a full battleship crew, five people are needed. Not having five capable crew available at the time of a flare is... not uncommon, and not really preventable either. NPCs aren't going to solve the problem, but well, it could be worth a try to see if it spices things up.
    You're forgetting one of the items of the set of Aether dominance:  Algontherine Whistle.

    Your ship gets blown up? No problem, bubblix back to the bubble and whistle that bad boy back.

    You find yourselves being contested at a bubble? No biggie. Jump to another bubble and whistle that ship over there instead.

    As to having a full crew, I believe @Enyalida put it in good words with the fact you cant use a majority of the skillset yourself. I personally would -love- to be able to do most of the things in aethercraft by my will alone. We would actually perhaps see much more interest in aethercombat if 4 people fully controlling ships were battling others. It would most deifinetly be more diverse.

    Additionally, I'd agree that I do wish bombard was more accessible to new commers, however a solution is to simply make Ground combat more functional. Currently, colossi dont hold much if any spark at all to bombarding.
  • If you PILOT SEAL the dock, algontherine whistles will not work. So, they'll have to fuse in (leaving them at 0 power) or fly the whole way back if they implode.

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  • Arcanis said:
    You're forgetting one of the items of the set of Aether dominance:  Algontherine Whistle.

    Your ship gets blown up? No problem, bubblix back to the bubble and whistle that bad boy back.

    You find yourselves being contested at a bubble? No biggie. Jump to another bubble and whistle that ship over there instead.
    Whistles are far more important than bubblixes in flares, yes. Is it a problem? If yes, we should be talking about whistles and how to counter them, if needed, not bubblixes. Bubblixes don't really add much, or remove much, from flares by their existence or not. Nothing's really been "forgotten" in my post - whistles weren't part of the original topic being discussed, so I didn't discuss them, is all.

    Like Maligorn said, dock sealing blocks whistles. Still, whistling remains a powerful tool in flares, especially since dock sealing is not as easy as it used to be - it drops if the pilot unlocks from the chair, so to seal a dock and block whistling, you need to tie down another person who could potentially be bombarding. Most of the time, the fighting/bombarding ships are already at the dock, too, so sealing doesn't really do much. You'll still need to prepared for a fight, bubblix or not, whistle or not, dock sealing or not... if there are enough opponents enough to put one up.

    The only real problem of flares, and any lack of excitement, if it exists, lies in the lack of actual people playing. Most orgs prepare for flares in advance, and there's no way to sabotage those preparations. You can seal the dock, but most of the time, the rival org's fleet is already at the bubble. You can disable bubblixes, but most orgs have travelships. Some people have flashpoints on their personal private ships as well. The most effective way of sabotaging preparations is what Karlach described - but even then, it's possible to counter that with permissions.

    And even if somehow the org failed to prepare, has no travelships and no bombard fleet docked at the bubble, and do not possess a bubblix or whistle... they can still contest the flare. As long as they have enough people to crew a battleship, they can fly the ship to the bubble even if you seal the dock. Flying ships is not difficult, and maps of aetherspace are on the wiki, so a little motivation is all that is needed to get a fully crewed ship on the frontlines. Bubblixes and whistles can make things more convenient, and secure a bubble with ease... but only if the rival orgs do not have enough people to field a proper challenge in the first place.

    Arcanis said:

    As to having a full crew, I believe @Enyalida put it in good words with the fact you cant use a majority of the skillset yourself. I personally would -love- to be able to do most of the things in aethercraft by my will alone. We would actually perhaps see much more interest in aethercombat if 4 people fully controlling ships were battling others. It would most deifinetly be more diverse.

    Additionally, I'd agree that I do wish bombard was more accessible to new commers, however a solution is to simply make Ground combat more functional. Currently, colossi dont hold much if any spark at all to bombarding.
    And my previous paragraph is also why I raised misgivings about this idea of NPC-ing crews. I doubt it's going to make flares more dynamic or interesting - it still boils down to a matter of who has more people, and with our population, it's not out of the question to have flares (or revolts) when there are literally no one in an org around at the time. NPC-ing won't be of any help then. Even if one person is around, if the other orgs aren't entirely empty as well, he's still not going to be able to do much alone... which is the same as the current situation anyway. It's a nice idea to let a person use all of aethercombat alone if he so wishes (exploring aetherspace alone would actually be viable then), but I just don't see how it will help the situation.

    As a note, colossi have been buffed once, if I remember correctly, and they DO contribute quite a bit to the capture of a flare. A single colossus can make quite a big difference, even if there is no one focusing it on the ground. We've used it to delay flare progression long enough that enough people logged in so we can blow up the fleet in aetherspace, and it's also been used to speed up bombarding efforts that the opponents have effectively only one try at aethercombat, because if they get blown up, they won't fly back fast enough. It's fairly rare that ground battles will take place in flares, but not because colossi are useless. Ground battles rarely take place because if you have enough people to effectively hold territory in a bubble (or challenge such a position), you're going to win the bubble a lot faster by loading them all onto bombard ships and maintaining aether superiority. Again, it's a numbers factor. Nothing really matters but the number of people who know what to do in a flare. The only reason why any ground battle ever took place in the history of the flares was because there used to be combatants who did not have bombarding (or aethercombat) abilities. Nowadays? Not so much.

  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here

    Yeah, it only takes maybe 5 mins max to fly to a bubble on a decent ship (unless it's one of the giant blob ships, then that's a lot longer, but it's still been done) 

    Bubblixes and whistles make things easier, but they aren't the endall-sayall of aetherflares

    Also, anyone who refuses to participate in something shouldn't be allowed to complain about it, I don't condone changing things because you're too lazy to try.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • Synkarin said:

    Yeah, it only takes maybe 5 mins max to fly to a bubble on a decent ship (unless it's one of the giant blob ships, then that's a lot longer, but it's still been done) 

    we would just tow  our big ship with any other ship given I have at least one other person to put it into an armada which would make the progress to the flare much more faster ^^ I also know this has been done with the other big ships because its kinda annoying flying those ships when you are in a hurry, cause they aren't. should be some momentum behind them! (j/k cause then, we'd have to look at how long it would take to slow them down!)

    anyhow, if you are fast on the dock seal not only are you preventing from people from whistling in new ships, if you were fast, you may get lucky and get a travel ship that cannot dock. I haven't seen anyone point out that sealing the dock also makes it so you can't dock.
    The soft, hollow voice of Nocht, the Silent resounds within your mind as His words echo through the aether, "Congratulations, Arimisia. Your mastery of vermin cannot be disputed."

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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Armadas should be slowing down to the speed of the slowest ship in the armada.


  • Lerad said:
    Arcanis said:
    You're forgetting one of the items of the set of Aether dominance:  Algontherine Whistle.

    Your ship gets blown up? No problem, bubblix back to the bubble and whistle that bad boy back.

    You find yourselves being contested at a bubble? No biggie. Jump to another bubble and whistle that ship over there instead.
    Whistles are far more important than bubblixes in flares, yes. Is it a problem? If yes, we should be talking about whistles and how to counter them, if needed, not bubblixes. Bubblixes don't really add much, or remove much, from flares by their existence or not. Nothing's really been "forgotten" in my post - whistles weren't part of the original topic being discussed, so I didn't discuss them, is all.




    Arcanis said:
    Several times I've made my distaste for aetherflares quite apparent, and people have asked me why it is I hate them so much (even refuse to participate). Written below are the reasons why I dislike aetherflares and hopes that one day these noted issues (my opinions naturally) would somehow be rectified.

    1. The one with the most bubblixes wins!

    Every flare starts the same, the moment the Aether Rings explode, the first thing you'll read anywhere is "Who has a bubblix?". This wonderful transportation item, purchasable by dingbats, gives people and the org they are loyal to a -massive- advantage in being able to not only setup their ships quickly, but also transport individuals and others quickly to that location. Why It is I hate it so much? Because a mechanic like this that gives such a large advantage is the definition of "Pay to Win", which I personally hate. Add an Aethership whistle with the bubblix and you practically have the full set of "easy aetherspace". Even if someone was proficient enough to flashpoint back and forth, it is still far faster and cheaper (not to mention safer) to simply use bubblixes. It is almost becoming a necessary requirement to aether-anything. The same problem basically translates to Domoth upgrading as well. Have a bubblix, and you gain the massive advantage.

    You missed something.
  • edited October 2014
    Synkarin said:

    Yeah, it only takes maybe 5 mins max to fly to a bubble on a decent ship (unless it's one of the giant blob ships, then that's a lot longer, but it's still been done) 

    Bubblixes and whistles make things easier, but they aren't the endall-sayall of aetherflares

    Also, anyone who refuses to participate in something shouldn't be allowed to complain about it, I don't condone changing things because you're too lazy to try.
    Your negativity, as always, is really not appreciated nor wanted. If you cant help but be as sour as you are, then please simply do not comment. Thank you.

    As for your usual stance of "Everything in Lusternia is good and nothing needs changing unless I say it does, because I am proficient and everyone else knows squat". Firstly, making a mechanic easier that, as several have said now is -not- easy to learn nor use, that being aethercraft, so that more would be inspired to partake is -not- a bad thing. I know you enjoy the tears of children but making the game more comfortable and fair is not a bad thing.

    No, shockingly enough, not everyone can pilot a ship to a bubble (in under 5 minutes). No, shockingly enough, not everyone has the necessary skills to successfully do so.

    Finally, to dismiss bubblixes and whistles as giving a massive advantage, perhaps the biggest advantage to a conflict mechanism in lusternia (revolts, combat, etc), is just showing your obvious attempt to be a negative and unhelpful individual to any discussion. Your past posts in any discussions have been naught but negativity and dismissive and you are giving very little to nothing to any discussion.

    Finally, I dont hate the current mechanic of flares because 'im too lazy to help'. I stated my reasons quite clearly why I dislike them, if you even took the time to read it rather than instantly go down to comments to troll-post, and was supplying suggestions for how to make it more accessible and interesting for more players.

    Now will you deny we are retaining few players and we could actually use with changes to inspire more to get involved? Of course you will.
  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie
    First: Full agreement on putting bombard lower in the skillset, or else adding something else so that you can contribute to aetherflares in a ship without a big lesson investment that has minimal use outside of one occasional event.

    Now, my vaguely educated guess is that the biggest problem for aetherflares is the general lack of population more than an issue of a credit imbalance. You could fix that by getting more people to play Lusternia, but that's kind of a hard fix to implement. My instinct for this is to remove the random factor from when flares trigger.

    That doesn't solve the problem entirely, of course. I don't even know if it'd be a huge improvement. It removes the problem of just randomly having less people than other orgs when the flare triggers, but some orgs are bigger than others and will be able to field more people at a scheduled event, too. You'd probably have a higher percentage of each org's players show up if they knew the time in advance, but bigger orgs will still have more people. You can't do much about that. What it would fix is the issue of people staying on for hours when they should be sleeping or working on something because they're waiting for flares to happen. That's a frustrating thing, and if you don't do it you're going to miss a lot of flares. I'm a little bit biased on this, since in a bit over two years of playing I have never yet been able to do a flare. I like the idea of flares, but the timing just hasn't worked out.

    Downside is that the orgs that have a really big population disadvantage will probably have even worse odds of winning if the flares are scheduled. With random times they have a chance of having a population advantage in an individual flare due to the random draw of who happens to be online. It won't happen often, because bigger orgs tend to have more people at all times, but there is a chance. Especially if there's a time zone factor involved in org size at different times. You'd want each flare event at different times, probably, to account for that.

    I'd have to look real close at numbers that I don't have to see if the good on scheduling everything outweighs the bad, but I have sneaking suspicion it would be a net gain. As a tangent to the thread, all of that can be applied to revolts and wildnodes, too.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here
    Arcanis said:
    Synkarin said:

    Yeah, it only takes maybe 5 mins max to fly to a bubble on a decent ship (unless it's one of the giant blob ships, then that's a lot longer, but it's still been done) 

    Bubblixes and whistles make things easier, but they aren't the endall-sayall of aetherflares

    Also, anyone who refuses to participate in something shouldn't be allowed to complain about it, I don't condone changing things because you're too lazy to try.
    Your negativity, as always, is really not appreciated nor wanted. If you cant help but be as sour as you are, then please simply do not comment. Thank you.

    As for your usual stance of "Everything in Lusternia is good and nothing needs changing unless I say it does, because I am proficient and everyone else knows squat". Firstly, making a mechanic easier that, as several have said now is -not- easy to learn nor use, that being aethercraft, so that more would be inspired to partake is -not- a bad thing. I know you enjoy the tears of children but making the game more comfortable and fair is not a bad thing.

    No, shockingly enough, not everyone can pilot a ship to a bubble (in under 5 minutes). No, shockingly enough, not everyone has the necessary skills to successfully do so.

    Finally, to dismiss bubblixes and whistles as giving a massive advantage, perhaps the biggest advantage to a conflict mechanism in lusternia (revolts, combat, etc), is just showing your obvious attempt to be a negative and unhelpful individual to any discussion. Your past posts in any discussions have been naught but negativity and dismissive and you are giving very little to nothing to any discussion.

    Finally, I dont hate the current mechanic of flares because 'im too lazy to help'. I stated my reasons quite clearly why I dislike them, if you even took the time to read it rather than instantly go down to comments to troll-post, and was supplying suggestions for how to make it more accessible and interesting for more players.

    I don't believe I was being negative anywhere, just stating that the bubblix problem is being exaggerated. I read each post in this thread (mins the ones after your post, because it's this post I'd like to respond to), and didn't feel like repeating things that have already been said, otherwise I would have. I felt people really already hammered the point home that bubblixes weren't the issue. @Lerad, @Vivet and @Lavinya all said that bubblixes aren't nearly the issue you are saying they are, but yet my comment affirming that is 'negative.'

    I don't think saying that some people haven't spent the time to learn about aetherspace or invested into the skillset to be able to fly ships is a reason to change a mechanic because they can't be bothered to learn how to do it. If it's being 'negative' that I should expect people to work for their rewards, than I guess I'm incredibly negative. This is different than Pay2Win because anyone can learn to fly a ship and can get the piloting skill at Inept 33% (according to Viy's website). A few credits to learn to fly isn't a HUGE investment here. 

    You'll also notice I didn't say anything else, just commented strictly on one thing I felt you were exaggerating. Didn't mention NPC crews, lack of people, or anything else of that nature, because I don't disagree with them, just like I don't disagree with lowering bombardment in aetherspace that @Lavinya suggested.

    Refusing to participate in a mechanic because 'you don't like it' isn't really anything new. I don't like peaced revolts, but I'll still jump in and do my best. It doesn't mean I'm going to run out here and point out every little issue with peaced revolts and how it's really easy just to continually run around and never get shattered or that certain skills like bolt make it super duper difficult. The difference is, if I decided to complain about it, at least I'll have backing and reasoning because I actively participate in it on a regular basis.  

    I don't think everything in Lusternia is good, I think it's rather boring right now, hence my incredibly reduced playtime. What I think part of the issue though is people who don't like to work to succeed and would rather have things handed to them. Like your 'I can't be bothered to learn how to fly so bubblixes are OP because I also don't want to bash up gold and buy dingbats to afford them.' I have access to every bubble but Xion and Cankermore, and I still know how to fly to each and every bubble because it's important to be successful at Flares. I didn't pay for that, I went out and flew around and learned how to do it, but apparently expecting some hard work out of some people is too much to ask. That's why I think you're lazy (and you pretty much agreed when you said you can't be bothered to learn how to fly). 






    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • As a note, it really IS very easy to fly a ship. You only really need gliding (which is at adept or something, iirc), if the ship is set up properly with forcefields beforehand and you want some speed. Of course, if you're flying a battleship into battle with only adept aethercraft... it's not going to end well. But I've flown battleships to bubbles for flares before I trans'd aethercraft, and trying to remember where on the wiki the aethermap is linked takes longer than the actual flight time. I've actually downloaded the map to my harddrive because I once spent so much time looking for it that the flare finished while we were halfway to it.

    It's probably possible to do it as inept (basic piloting abilities are the first learned, I think) if you want, it'd just be spammy as hell without gliding.

    For the semantic misunderstanding, I want to note that your first main point wasn't about whistles. You mentioned them, of course, but every sentence in that paragraph is about the huge impact bubblixes have on aethercombat. If you noticed, I stated quite explicitly that "Whistles are far more important than bubblixes in flares, yes." That is, however, not the point of your post, which I was replying to.
    Arcanis said:
    1. The one with the most bubblixes wins!

    Every flare starts the same, the moment the Aether Rings explode, the first thing you'll read anywhere is "Who has a bubblix?". This wonderful transportation item, purchasable by dingbats, gives people and the org they are loyal to a -massive- advantage in being able to not only setup their ships quickly, but also transport individuals and others quickly to that location. Why It is I hate it so much? Because a mechanic like this that gives such a large advantage is the definition of "Pay to Win", which I personally hate. Add an Aethership whistle with the bubblix and you practically have the full set of "easy aetherspace". Even if someone was proficient enough to flashpoint back and forth, it is still far faster and cheaper (not to mention safer) to simply use bubblixes. It is almost becoming a necessary requirement to aether-anything. The same problem basically translates to Domoth upgrading as well. Have a bubblix, and you gain the massive advantage.
    The bolded parts were your main points, if my reading comprehension is not entirely malfunctioning from writing multiple essays in a week. And whistles were not. Those bolded parts were what I was replying to. I certainly didn't miss whistles - they weren't the topic of discussion from the start.

  • Aetherflares are all equal parts preparation and luck. Luck, for when they pop, to hope that you have a decent amount of people around. Preparation: travel ships, flashpoints, a map saved to a special document somewhere, and even the slightest experience flying. The fact of the matter is is that you should be planning your campaign around expecting -not- to have access to bubblixes or whistles. When you do that, you'll find a lot more options to you rather than lamenting the idea that you won't get there in time to make a difference.

    Hell, if you send your flagship in and start knocking out drones -- even if you get imploded by THEIR flagship, you're going to have set their bombards back by so much time, buying yourself and your org some time.

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  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark Australia
    I honestly can't remember the last aetherflare I attended where we had a bubblix -or- a whistle at hand. We just have ships prepared at the bubble, and a few travel ships with flashpoints ready to get there. I've even been blown up, had to jump into a different travel ship (which had no turrets), jump from it into another to keep bombarding...and we won it, with only three people. The only real problem was that our third person couldn't bombard so essentially they sat in the ship  twiddling their thumbs.



  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    It's really really tedious and obnoxious to set up a bubble ahead of time without the use of a whistle.
  • Yeah but, you have like twelve days to do it, and allies to ask for whistles.

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  • For some reason reading this made me lament the lack of complexity in the aethercraft system. 

    I think it's primarily that I would have liked to see ship classes with different capabilities. Small fighter types that are really quick and manoeuvrable that only really need one pilot, working up to bigger motherships that bring in the smaller classes and the big weapons. With combat balanced around having one mothership with lower classes of ship assisting the battle with smaller crew requirements.

    Still probably requires too many people but it is what came to mind.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods
    Don't get me wrong, I still do it when I have the chance. I usually get a friend and start an 'ghost armada' to fly a bunch of ships over at the same time, including all the travel ships, so that they can get flashpoints set before fusing them back to prime docks.. 
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord
    I do not really understand this thread at all, for a few reasons.

    First, it is extraordinarily difficult to judge how something works or be able to offer useful suggestions or improvements if you do not participate nor fully understand how it is designed.  This leads to sweeping, inaccurate statements which just muddle the water and degrade the ideas you present.  It's generally better to invest the time to understand it before you complain.

    Next, Aetherflares can actually be much more complex than many of you make them out to be.  I see some of you dismissing the point of colossi, but in some flares I've actually had a colossus put in more points than two entire bombards.  Every flare I'm at, I drop one.  They are especially important if you do not have a lot of little ships to bombard with, and focusing on them can potentially give lowbies something to do as well (though you need to train them to move when the bombard is about to finish, and unfortunately even that skill requires a few lessons to learn).

    I will agree that much of the aetherflare combat happens in aetherspace.  This is by design, and the Admin want it to have the bulk of its activity there.  I honestly like this; aethercombat is, to me, actually rather fun as a team effort.  I'm sure it would get exhausting if it was something you had to do all the time, but you generally do it for a few minutes every couple of weeks.  I find that this can actually be viewed as a refreshing break from business-as-usual.  If you control the skies, you are probably going to win (unless you have only 1 ship bombarding, the enemy force has a colossus on the ground, and they already have a lead).

    As such, all of the things that you have an issue with can be rendered irrelevant.  Whistles are blocked, as others have noted, by someone sealing the dock.  Someone bubblixing up cannot attack a fleet from the ground; they must still get a ship to the bubble somehow, and if the dock is sealed, that involves flying.

    At this point, I have explored all the various intricacies of aetherflares except for one.  Colossi combat is actually also fun (though I'm really rusty on it right now, I remember the basic rotation), aether combat really is about more than simply shooting at the other ship (I mean, that may work, but you really should be using your other skills and working on using power as a team to assure victory), I've invested a ton of time into examining the effect that a colossus has on winning a flare, etc.  The one thing I can't do is fly a ship to any given bubble.

    This, however, is not a fault of the system.  This is my own personal shortcoming, one I just haven't yet been able to muster up the energy to address (I keep telling myself that I will someday, but that day has yet to arrive). I can fly around easily enough, and when given general directions I can arrive at a destination (I flew us to Aquagoria during its release), but I just don't have a map in my head on where all the aether-docks are in relation to each other nor have I printed the existing one out.

    Many, many changes have occurred to aetherflares to reduce the impact and strength of certain things (the above-noted change to Seal being one of them).  Can more be done?  Sure.  I just feel that starting a conversation off with "I can't be bothered to figure this out" is not a good way to initiate the discussion.

    The problem presented in this thread is not bubblixes, or whistles.

    It is a problem with attitude.
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  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens.
    As someone previously mentioned having ships fleet and fuse is also a really good way to recover your fleet at a fight even if the opposition's sealed the dock. Have your travel ship jump in and fly a few rooms away quickly (expert piloting is needed) and fuse flash a fleet in.

    Otherwise known as hot drop o'clock. That's won Glomdoring a couple of key flare battles in the last year, being able to suddenly appear with a fully crewed Nyx after a fight, where the opposition can't fully recover their fleet yet. Jump in, seal the dock and go to town.


    Aethership combat has so many layers of tactics to it, and so rarely is it utilised outside of flares, that as things stand it should be the prevailing force in aetherflares, otherwise we're neglecting an entire PK system.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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