Design Questions

Sakr

I want to make a bath tub. I guess I should use a marble couch, but I can't think of a line that would let the viewer see the couch as a bath tub in the dropped. Help please?

And can we use things like a furnace in a design for a throne, to keep the seat warm for instance?

We also tried making a billiards table at one point. @Shulamit designed it, but it was rejected because it's not feasible at this point and time. If we removed the term billiard, could it work?

Appearance:

a large billiard table covered in dark green fulled cloth

Dropped:

An elegant wooden billiard table stands here, the dark green cloth covering the surface smooth and ready for play.

Examined:

Crafted from solid maplewood, this heavy billiard table is a symbol of refined luxury. The solid maplewood has been carefully cut and smoothed, each joint fitted together snugly. The top of the table is indented slightly, no more than a couple inches in depth. Each wooden surface has been carved with intricate patterns, ranging from vines and leaves of exotic plants and trees to small gears and cogs. The wood has been lacquered, giving it a shiny appearance. The surface of the indented table is covered in dark green fulled cloth, the surface crisp and clean, creating a smooth playing surface. Small pockets indent the table, one in each of the corners, and an extra one on each of the long sides of the table. Small wooden cup holders hang underneath the holes, ready to catch any billiard balls or other debris. Hanging underneath the table is a set of pool cues crafted from solid maplewood, along with a full set of shiny billiard balls.

Lavinya

Point 1 - From help trademaster:

7) An item can not be something that it is not. In other words, 'a
blanket' is a blanket. It is not a tapestry or a banner. Those would be
different items than a blanket. Likewise, do not combine multiple items
into one design: i.e. a shirt with a belt. Shirts and belts are separate
patterns and should be treated so.

So a couch can never be a bath. We don't have a bath pattern, though you can always ask the Charites to consider addind the pattern as an option (pretty sure it's been asked for before though).


And can we use things like a furnace in a design for a throne, to keep the seat warm for instance?

Try adding fire essence for a warm effect -

Fireessence
* Make an object seem warm to the touch (not hot)

(HELP TRADEMASTER is your friend)


Not sure about your third point

Eritheyl

I don't see that table design working out, it just doesn't mesh conceptually. Removing the word 'billiard' would definitely be a start, and quite possible the cues/balls from the design as well. Since the only way you'd be utilizing the table at all is through emoting and roleplay, I would simplify the design a lot and just play the rest out (the cues, the balls, etc). If it's closer to a table than a pool table, you should have a much easier time.

Morshoth

Could make it a repurposed billiards table, with the holes changed into cupholders

Aison

You should not have an issue with the throne and furnace idea. I made a throne that is basically a tree. You just have to make sure that the designs main noun is 'throne', not furnace. If you just want a warm seat and not to use a furnace as a specific object, I would recommend taking lavinya's advice and just use fire essence.

Sakr

I've used fire essence, but was told as a reply that having a furnace is not feasible. Instead, I made put a box containing flame essence and a network of pipes to split up the warm along the throne. I was told that it is too complex for an artisan. As a reply to that I placed the following and submitted the design:

I've removed the furnace, but not the idea of the central heating system occurring within the design. Flame essence is used to make things warm to touch, but for a more clockwork, mechanical viewpoint I felt as the designer I have to show how the throne is kept warm. This is through a network of steam pipes, rather than magic that cannot be crafted. Thank you for understanding.

It may be rude, but I dislike saying "Oh, it's magic, that is why it works", and instead try to show how the design works.

The design is this: 

Item: Throne  Type: Thrones  Org: Lac

Commodities: iron 900 redtint 200 cloth 100 coal 50 fireessence 1

Mortal Reviews: Allowed   * NEEDS DIVINE REVIEW *

Space: 70%  Furniture Type: Normal Furnishings

Outdoors: No  Container: No  Can Have Lock: No

IMPORTANT: The main noun MUST use one of these: THRONE

Appearance:

a right sided throne

Dropped:

A right-handed throne stands here, bearing a large sun to the right side.

Examined:

An iron box containing flame essence underneath the throne heats up a network of copper pipes that run around this throne, keeping it warm to touch. Each pipe stems from the box, and interlacing to form a myriad of different forms up until it reaches the seat. The seat is wrapped by cloth, tinted black with a red line running down the middle. On the upper right side next to the top of the throne, there rests a copper cut out of a sun resting in front of a large immobile gear sliced in half. A clock on the sun is stuck at midday, with each of the fingers pointing at a different time with the sun out.

and

Item: Throne  Type: Thrones  Org: Lac  Designer: Sakr

Commodities: iron 900 redtint 200 cloth 100 coal 50 fireessence 1

Mortal Reviews: Allowed   * NEEDS DIVINE REVIEW *

Space: 70%  Furniture Type: Normal Furnishings

Outdoors: No  Container: No  Can Have Lock: No

IMPORTANT: The main noun MUST use one of these: THRONE

Appearance:

a left sided throne

Dropped:

A left-handed throne stands here, bearing a large moon to the left side.

Examined:

An iron box containing flame essence underneath the throne heats up a network of copper pipes that run around this throne, keeping it warm to touch. Each pipe stems from the box, and interlaces to form a myriad of different forms up until it reaches the seat. The seat is wrapped by cloth, tinted black with a red line running down where the middle. On the upper left side next to the top of the throne, there rests a copper cut out of a moon resting in front of a large immobile gear sliced in half. A clock on the moon is stuck at midnight, with each of the fingers pointing at a different time with the moon out.

Eritheyl

If the clock is stuck at midday, why would the hands (or fingers, I guess) be pointing at different times? I would keep the pipes, but don't even bother putting the flame essence in the description. Just note that there's a slight, palpable warmth. Over-describing the stuff behind it just sort of makes the design messy, and otherwise it might have an easier time passing.

Sakr

Imagine the hand pointing at midnight, or midday, but with each of the five fingers on that hand split in different directions pointing towards the different times. For example, the midday hand would point the fingers to sunrise, sunset, and noon. All of which have the sun out. Vice versa for the moon. The design requester asked for a little bit of chaos in the design.

Eventru

But of sunrise, sunset and noon, only one of them is mid-day. That's so terribly confusing.

Sakr

Maybe if I were to put that the hand is directed towards mid-day, but the individual fingers pointing elsewhere as well?

Eritheyl

Or just forget the fingers altogether, and give the clock multiple, zigzagging hands. That would be alot easier to make sense of, while retaining the 'chaos'.

Shaddus

Who the hell told you a design was too complex for an artisan?

Sakr

the charites, after a lengthy waiting period. It was flagged for divine review

Kaimanahi

Given that the Charites are the authority on it, I doubt you'll get much sympathy in continuing to submit it. To me it seems a bit unreasonable to add working elements nonstandard to the pattern like a furnace. It is like when I've had scabbard designs rejected for mentioning a belt, which is a separately crafted item, but even more extreme for something like a furnace that probably should not be considered in an artisan scope.

Everiine

I've found that what works in changing the Charities' minds is using precedent. When an armour design of mine was rejected because I included a chain-mail skirt, I went through every public plate design, found every one that included a piece of chainmail as part of the design, and resubmitted the design with the explanation and list of precedents in the comments section.

Sakr

I tend to do that with my wallfeatures, to make sure I can pass without the limited quantity of wax. Anyways, thanks everyone for helping out!

Shaddus

Everiine said:

I've found that what works in changing the Charities' minds is using precedent. When an armour design of mine was rejected because I included a chain-mail skirt, I went through every public plate design, found every one that included a piece of chainmail as part of the design, and resubmitted the design with the explanation and list of precedents in the comments section.

There's been a changing of the guard, and that rarely works anymore

Everiine

Shaddus said:

Everiine said:

I've found that what works in changing the Charities' minds is using precedent. When an armour design of mine was rejected because I included a chain-mail skirt, I went through every public plate design, found every one that included a piece of chainmail as part of the design, and resubmitted the design with the explanation and list of precedents in the comments section.

There's been a changing of the guard, and that rarely works anymore

Well that's shoddy, allowing something and then without any change in policy no longer allowing it. Still, it's worth a try, especially if what you are trying to do is very similar to what's already been done.

I'm surprised they are resisting the furnace chair, given that there seems to be an openness to more steampunk in Lusternia.

Lavinya

I think more to the point is the fact that there are older designs that should never have been approved as they are that slipped through than suddenly no longer allowing things.

With the throne, you'd probably have better luck if you didn't mention the fact that there's a furnace. I imagine you'd have an easier time if you simply said the throne was warm to the touch and had fire essence in your commodities. Then you're not including something overly complicated (fancy schmancy piped heating system) in what should be a simple design (a glorified chair), but you still get the desired result of a warm butt when you sit on it.