A Q/A with Lisaera and Co about the Maeve Consciousness

Lisaera

What questions or concerns do you have about Queen Maeve? Ask them or state them here and I promise to try and answer everything as readily as I can, assuming the timbre of this discussion remains polite. If this thread veers off course or becomes a hostile place, I'll close it immediately. Also note that I will not, nor will anyone else on the pantheon, give you conclusive information about Maeve's future. Why? Because it is not written yet. Only Estarra really knows because it is Her grand design and we're just living in it. 

Without further ado: 

Begin! 

Eldanien

Would someone fill in the basic background, for those of us who aren't as familiar yet still quite interested?

Lerad

Vaguely (and probably slightly inaccurately) speaking, Maeve = fae. The idea is that all the fae were used to create her, or that she is the manifestation of all the fae or something along those lines. Can't remember exactly, but she was created to help the forests resist the soulless invasion - individually, the communes were being gobbled up, but by combining forces (like captain planet) they became more than the sum of the parts and could offer some measure of defense that repelled the soulless attacks on the forests.

I guess you could parallel it to Avechna being the combination of a few gods etc. If something bad happens to the Maeve, something bad will happen to the fae. Even if the Maeve could be split up or killed without destroying nature or damaging the fae, it would still result in a dramatic drop in nature's power (and probably both commune's influence and power) and not to mention, the loss of one of the very few tested and proven defenses that is effective against the soulless.

Edit: Ah, looking it up, it appears Maeve is made up of only the forest fae. Her creation (or awakening) is in the Book of Clangorum of the elder wars.

Xenthos

Yeah.  Just the forest fae (which is why Maeve and the Fae of Faethorn are so important to the Forests).  I felt like the Maeve event was good in that it gave us a better look at just why Maeve is so important to us (instead of just assertions by Maeve and Gods, we could see it first-hand).  Also, we got to see her almost die.

Saran

I mentioned it in the previous thread, but well... we've had the importance of the Maeve reinforced regularly throughout the years. Most notably in the past year where nature-based players felt what would be the result of her death.

For Serenwilde, at the least, this is problematic, we need Maeve to exist, to thrive even, but to ensure this we need to ensure that Glomdoring and the Wyrd continue to exist. We need them to help whenever something happens to Maeve, and by extension nature in general. One side could have wiped out every last totem in the others forest, have griefed them for months, their avatars dead, and all of that gets put to the side because Maeve stubbed her toe.

The repetition of this does lead to quite a bit of questioning about the point of sustaining a war with Glomdoring, because even if we succeeded, even if we did destroy them, we've most likely doomed nature as it could be that the next day Maeve is struck down and we need the people we just wiped out to help save nature. I don't feel that this is two-sided though as Glomdoring, theoretically, could attempt to convert Serenwilde to the Wyrd, both forests would still exist to help restore nature when these incidents arise, and as we've seen Maeve would just adapt to the change.

So yeah, it seems that Serenwilde doesn't have a reasonable expectation of cleansing Glom (I believe Estarra has said on the forums that it's impossible to cleanse the taint and the first ascension showed the taint is why Raven is still Crow, it's also when the White Hart himself said he would never meet Raven again) and because of the Maeve we can't logically want their destruction, so she seems to mostly serve the purpose of making our opposition to each other kinda pointless on Serenwildes side.

It's not something I expect can be answered in this thread, but yeah Maeve is a big part of why our wars with Glomdoring feel meaningless. If we can see a way to move forward, either with Maeve, by splitting her in two, or even by disconnecting from her and creating our own pure Maeve, then our opposition can become meaningful.

Saran

@Xenthos, the event was really cool, but at the same time I'm kinda struggling with why my character thinks a war with Glomdoring is in anyway a good idea after seeing what could possibly happen if they're not around and something similar happens to the Maeve.

Lerad

I think, lore-wise, the dependency is the other way around. Rather than the Maeve being dependant on the forests to survive, it is the forests that depend on the Maeve to survive. The Maeve, at least, was explicitly stated to have been created to save and preserve all the forests, and as a matter of fact, that was what she was created to do in the elder wars: protect them forests.

The fact is that both the forests have a vested interest in seeing the Maeve thrive, because her being alive protects them - even from each other. Glomdoring, and Serenwilde, gains power and defenses from the fae, so when anything threatens her, both forests will put in their all - and should put in their all - to see the Maeve restored. The grudging agreement for a truce is simply that the two forests want to see the Maeve protected asap, the threat removed asap, so they can go back to killing each other.

The problem here isn't that the lore states that the Glomdoring cannot be purified or destroyed - rather, that the mechanics state that. We're not going to nuke an org - it cannot be "mechanically" possible. The lore is sometimes twisted to reflect that, or at least not openly contradict that. But the ideals that underpin the orgs doesn't have to cleave entirely to the mechanics.

It's like saying Celest has no way to cleanse the taint, and therefore should not try to do it, and therefore have no reason to wage a war etc. This is pushing into the serenwilde ideas thread a little, but I think it's not really true to say the Serenwilde can't reasonably push for that to be their ideal and their identity - to cleanse or purify the wyrd.

At the same time, I'm not sure there is a case to be made where Glomdoring, or Serenwilde, being destroyed = the Maeve dying. It has not been part of the lore before. In some past events, it may have happened that the maeve faced a threat which required both communes to cooperate, but that doesn't tie her existence, or survival, to that of either commune. On theory, a commune could blow up and still the Maeve would continue to exist and maybe thrive. Or rather, maybe this is where we need clarification about:

Will the maeve die if one of the communes die?

My guess is "no". The requirement that both communes work together for past events are likely plot devices specific to those events - by the admin to enforce cooperation. Which might seem heavy-handed, but really, it not uncommon in games. My guess is that Serenwilde CAN take the hardline stance of "burn Glomdoring down" if they want, and not contradict their ideal of saving, preserving and spreading the infleunce of nature

Lisaera

To your points, @saran -- player-driven political strife is, mostly, driven by players. We haven't encouraged "war" between Serenwilde and Glomdoring in the player v. player slaughtering sense. That's a possible byproduct of mechanical conflicts that have been put in place (namely, the Hifarae Hills and the epic quests in general), but there's much more evidence of the Serenwilde pantheon being magnanimously opposed to the creeping of civilization and an overall anti-taint bent than a razor focused anti-Glomdoring rhetoric. 

This is me playing devil's advocate, mind you. 

Also note that the Maeve is just another one of those puzzle pieces that players in positions of power need to move around the game board of life. This is the lore that we're giving you -- Maeve is connected to Serenwilde and to Glomdoring. If Maeve begins to fail, then nature itself begins to unravel. If the "war" is still waging, it's up to the players to decide how that works out. 

Serenwilde will always want to nurture the natural world because that is where it finds its strength. Glomdoring will always want to convert the natural world to the wyrd phenomenon. While Glomdoring may never be Gloriana again, not as long as there are players still fighting for the wyrd, so too will Serenwilde never be corrupted, as long as there are players still fighting for nature's purity. Splitting Maeve up isn't going to really solve that. 

Xenthos

Saran said:

For Serenwilde, at the least, this is problematic, we need Maeve to exist, to thrive even, but to ensure this we need to ensure that Glomdoring and the Wyrd continue to exist. We need them to help whenever something happens to Maeve, and by extension nature in general. One side could have wiped out every last totem in the others forest, have griefed them for months, their avatars dead, and all of that gets put to the side because Maeve stubbed her toe.

I do not think this is actually the case.  The Maeve is the summation of the forest fae... but we know that some of the fae can be cut off from her (see: Wydyr Glade).  It would theoretically be possible to excise the Glomdoring-fae from her, and then you would not need Glomdoring at all when Bad Things happen to the Maeve.  That is your only real way to go because there are forest-fae that were specifically created by Manteekan and, because they were created that way, I'm not sure that they can be "cleansed," but they've already given you an out/solution to that pesky little problem.
 
You do not actually need the Glomdoring to exist in perpetuity-- however, as long as we do exist, we may occasionally need to work together for a greater purpose.  Such a thing will, however, always be temporary because your more long-term goal is to see us cut off entirely and the Maeve uninfluenced.  Our long-term goal is obviously to see some lovely Wyrden Moon Avatars.

Saran

Lisaera said:

To your points, @saran -- player-driven political strife is, mostly, driven by players. We haven't encouraged "war" between Serenwilde and Glomdoring in the player v. player slaughtering sense. That's a possible byproduct of mechanical conflicts that have been put in place (namely, the Hifarae Hills and the epic quests in general), but there's much more evidence of the Serenwilde pantheon being magnanimously opposed to the creeping of civilization and an overall anti-taint bent than a razor focused anti-Glomdoring rhetoric. 

This is me playing devil's advocate, mind you. 

Also note that the Maeve is just another one of those puzzle pieces that players in positions of power need to move around the game board of life. This is the lore that we're giving you -- Maeve is connected to Serenwilde and to Glomdoring. If Maeve begins to fail, then nature itself begins to unravel. If the "war" is still waging, it's up to the players to decide how that works out. 

Serenwilde will always want to nurture the natural world because that is where it finds its strength. Glomdoring will always want to convert the natural world to the wyrd phenomenon. While Glomdoring may never be Gloriana again, not as long as there are players still fighting for the wyrd, so too will Serenwilde never be corrupted, as long as there are players still fighting for nature's purity. Splitting Maeve up isn't going to really solve that. 

I feel like the first paragraph isn't really fitting with the game personally, sure mechanics are in place, Glomdoring is the only org that can use smob attacks to harm us directly for one. Then there's also other standards that exist in the game, that being that every org has an "Arch-nemesis"  (this was stated by Estarra in Ask Estarra Vol. III) which would lead to the expectation that our opposition to Glomdoring is equal to Celest vs Magnagora or Hallifax vs Gaudiguch.

The main difference between our portrayal and the cities, is that the cities are not asked to work with their Arch-nemesis and I believe are generally directed not to. The only time I can think of that this wasn't the case was the Hai'gloh/Xion Initiative event which didn't really last too long in the grand scheme of things.

Lisaera

Serenwilde is Glomdoring's direct opponent, and vise versa. That has not been disputed. Fortunately, Lusternia is incredibly diverse and we've come a long way since Glomdoring was launched and the dynamics are blessedly shifting. Otherwise, it would be a very boring volley ball game! So we'll agree to disagree here and, if necessary, chat about it privately.

Let's get back on track! Does anyone else have questions regarding Maeve? 

Saran

Lerad said:

I think, lore-wise, the dependency is the other way around. Rather than the Maeve being dependant on the forests to survive, it is the forests that depend on the Maeve to survive. The Maeve, at least, was explicitly stated to have been created to save and preserve all the forests, and as a matter of fact, that was what she was created to do in the elder wars: protect them forests.

The fact is that both the forests have a vested interest in seeing the Maeve thrive, because her being alive protects them - even from each other. Glomdoring, and Serenwilde, gains power and defenses from the fae, so when anything threatens her, both forests will put in their all - and should put in their all - to see the Maeve restored. The grudging agreement for a truce is simply that the two forests want to see the Maeve protected asap, the threat removed asap, so they can go back to killing each other.

The problem here isn't that the lore states that the Glomdoring cannot be purified or destroyed - rather, that the mechanics state that. We're not going to nuke an org - it cannot be "mechanically" possible. The lore is sometimes twisted to reflect that, or at least not openly contradict that. But the ideals that underpin the orgs doesn't have to cleave entirely to the mechanics.

It's like saying Celest has no way to cleanse the taint, and therefore should not try to do it, and therefore have no reason to wage a war etc. This is pushing into the serenwilde ideas thread a little, but I think it's not really true to say the Serenwilde can't reasonably push for that to be their ideal and their identity - to cleanse or purify the wyrd.

At the same time, I'm not sure there is a case to be made where Glomdoring, or Serenwilde, being destroyed = the Maeve dying. It has not been part of the lore before. In some past events, it may have happened that the maeve faced a threat which required both communes to cooperate, but that doesn't tie her existence, or survival, to that of either commune. On theory, a commune could blow up and still the Maeve would continue to exist and maybe thrive. Or rather, maybe this is where we need clarification about:

Will the maeve die if one of the communes die?

My guess is "no". The requirement that both communes work together for past events are likely plot devices specific to those events - by the admin to enforce cooperation. Which might seem heavy-handed, but really, it not uncommon in games. My guess is that Serenwilde CAN take the hardline stance of "burn Glomdoring down" if they want, and not contradict their ideal of saving, preserving and spreading the infleunce of nature

If we look at lore as what has been shown through events, I cannot remember a time where Serenwilde has been shown to reclaim any patch of land that has been lost to the taint, the wyrd, or even civilisation. The consistent story of Serenwilde has been that any loss is permanent.

Because both Serenwilde and Glomdoring are "nature" both are involved in every event that in anyway involves it, an example would be the events where the champion artifacts for the bards and druids were updated. The cities each received their own event, something that was purely about them as far as I can see, but Serenwilde and Glomdoring had to work together to save the tree of trees. We've also had events such as the Dark Druids, we sealed an evil in the forest(which seems like just one of many). When it eventually got out the White Hart had to sacrifice himself to seal them otherwise the forest would still be suffering storms and the like as a result of their curse, the only way to save the White Hart was to beg the Wyrd to take the spirits.

Celest really doesn't seem to have had these sort of stories and realistically, if Celest can't "cleanse" Magnagora the don't have the memory of these stories there if they pursued a path that resulted in the utter destruction of Magnagora. They could kill every last being that is associated with the taint, patrol the planes constantly and kill anything that might be influenced by it, reduce the city to rubble and destroy the megalith.

But after years of "Nature" events, because of the plot device that forces the communes together, it seems like we have a lot more history showing a need for Glomdoring and little to nothing that shows that we can protect nature in general without them. We might be able to do limited things inside our forest, but that's really all that's been reflected in the events I can remember.


EDIT: Oh just quickly, doesn't Maeve serve as a conduit of power between the forests. Part of our protection comes from the spirits bound to our forests, but that came later, I thought her actual power was bolstering the strength of the forests by combining the power of the fae. It's the book of Clangorum which says that it's their collective strength that offers the protection. Not sure where I'm getting it from but I have an assumption that she actually redirects the strength/power of the fae to where its needed most across all forests.

i.e if Serenwilde is being attacked by the soulless then the Maeve would draw on power from Glomdoring to protect us.

Tremula

I remember being told that previous admin had stated it would be impossible to remove Maeve's brand. When I heard that was the intent, I'll admit I was a little peeved off, even if it did turn out in a really cool way. My questions are:

Was this a sudden change of heart? What was the thought process behind removing the brand?

What's to stop Magnagora from delving into a big project where they brand Maeve and bring back the Dame?

Is this the last we've seen of the Dame Maeve personality, or will she be reborn in future Nifilhema things?

Are we going to get fortunate enough to see Halli and Gaudi get equal opportunities to mess with the balance?

Do the above opportunities to mess with Maeve (or other similarly high effect [see: Project Eternity, Hai'Gloh] situations) have to be Divine-influenced, or is it a possibility that the players running each of the orgs could make the choice to do this? Are the admin in a position to put their foot down if they feel we're going out of hand or there's an unfair balance of power?

Ulalah

So, the Maeve is the forest fae. Does  that mean only the fae within Faethorn, or also fae like the spriggan, redcaps, etc. Or do we count all forest fae as everything that isn't a Great Spirit, cosmic abomination, etc?

I know through talking to Juur that the Maeve dislikes spriggans and the like, but as she only banished them rather than exterminated them, does it indicate she's part of them?

Hoaracle

Tremula said:

Was this a sudden change of heart? What was the thought process behind removing the brand?

What's to stop Magnagora from delving into a big project where they brand Maeve and bring back the Dame?

1.) To my knowledge, there was always the possibility of the brand being removed. In fact, there were several attempts on behalf of the admin to determine how exactly we would do that, but nothing happened until this latest event. 

2.) Nothing. There is nothing to stop Magnagora from doing this. 

Elryn

I think for me the problem with Maeve is that she represents the lie that lurks within Serenwilde's current identity. The taint isn't actually that bad for nature or the fae, and she is eternally living proof of the successful integration of soulless energies into all of nature.

If the taint isn't that bad for the fae (just a different flavour or fate), then what did the basin need to be healed from? Why did Serenwilde blame the cities for Cosmic Hope, if Glomdoring and her spirits turned out just fine (better than fine, actually)? We are only left with shallow, petty reasoning about how they don't look like us so therefore they must be bad, or because the great spirits hate each other now just because.

The Maeve is literally all the things that Serenwilde holds most in esteem (fae, great spirits, nature itself) telling them that their differences with Glomdoring are at a superficial, preference level. The wyrd is perfectly okay, we just don't like it. Sure, we have historical emnities that I'm sure will be difficult to get past, but if Glomdoring was a quiet, well-behaved commune, Serenwilde should be perfectly okay with their existence.

I'm actually more inclined these days to embrace that direction, rather than try and fight against it. It would be very cool for instance if Serenwilde decided to incorporate its own flavour of the Wyrd, and gave up the frankly losing argument that 'pure' nature exists any more, and that its worth protecting. Maybe it could be the wild, mystical version of the Wyrd, where Glomdoring's original is dark and frightening. And then Serenwilde at least has its own flavour to profligate through the basin (since ethereal forest is now a bit confusing to have as the Hartstone variant). And then we can forge a new future as the forest communes working together in the Wyrd, just slightly different interpretations of it.

Lisaera

Tremula said:

I remember being told that previous admin had stated it would be impossible to remove Maeve's brand. When I heard that was the intent, I'll admit I was a little peeved off, even if it did turn out in a really cool way. My questions are:

Was this a sudden change of heart? What was the thought process behind removing the brand?

What's to stop Magnagora from delving into a big project where they brand Maeve and bring back the Dame?

Is this the last we've seen of the Dame Maeve personality, or will she be reborn in future Nifilhema things?

Are we going to get fortunate enough to see Halli and Gaudi get equal opportunities to mess with the balance?

Do the above opportunities to mess with Maeve (or other similarly high effect [see: Project Eternity, Hai'Gloh] situations) have to be Divine-influenced, or is it a possibility that the players running each of the orgs could make the choice to do this? Are the admin in a position to put their foot down if they feel we're going out of hand or there's an unfair balance of power?

It's tricky for administrators to ever say "this cannot happen because of this," especially if that administrator is not Estarra. Even if it is her, she is well within her right to change her mind on something. As for the decision to write the event: the Maeve brand was something that was long, long, long overdue and had been, essentially, wasting away in the annals of Lusternia lore for nearly a full real life decade. It was time to do something about it once and for all, and it evolved into a very intriguing piece of lore that will, undoubtedly, delight and tickle players for years to come. 

As for your questions in the future tense: as I noted above, we cannot speak to that because it hasn't been written. We do not like to definitively say anything, really, as you've already experienced what happens when an administrator suggests an absolute. 

Also, even if we do have plans, nice try. You can't get our event schematics out of us that easily. 

Regarding player-driven Maeve torment: go for it. If we like something enough to support it, we'll move forward. That's how all of our player/administrator collaborative projects kick off in the beginning. Players strike up a cool event idea and roll with it, and we follow along with our own added flair. If we don't like something or if it flies in the face of our grand design, we'll figure out a way to stomp it to dust. We do it virtually everyday, usually without anyone noticing. 

Lisaera

Ulalah said:

So, the Maeve is the forest fae. Does  that mean only the fae within Faethorn, or also fae like the spriggan, redcaps, etc. Or do we count all forest fae as everything that isn't a Great Spirit, cosmic abomination, etc?

I know through talking to Juur that the Maeve dislikes spriggans and the like, but as she only banished them rather than exterminated them, does it indicate she's part of them?

That's tricky. It's unclear whether all of the dark fae Manteekan created were installed into the Maeve Consciousness at her inception. We do know that most of the dark fae were conjured with the war in mind, and so it's likely that some of them -- if not all of them -- were somehow used to influence Maeve's power. That's also a dynamic Manteekan is using to his advantage right now, so it'd be uncouth of us to really say one way or another. 

There are plenty of fae in Lusternia that have nothing to do with Maeve. The hyfae of the Undervault, for example, or the ice fae of Frosticia. 

Portius

So, changing the fae changes Maeve, right? Because she's their collective spirit?

Does that mean that she would start to take on eaf-like characteristics if people made enough of them? Or that we could turn her into a super eaf? (Admin, please make it so.)

Lavinya

Hoaracle said:

Tremula said:

Was this a sudden change of heart? What was the thought process behind removing the brand?

What's to stop Magnagora from delving into a big project where they brand Maeve and bring back the Dame?

1.) To my knowledge, there was always the possibility of the brand being removed. In fact, there were several attempts on behalf of the admin to determine how exactly we would do that, but nothing happened until this latest event. 

2.) Nothing. There is nothing to stop Magnagora from doing this. 

We were directly admin told 'no this is not happening' when we looked into it previously (Magnagora and Glomdoring this was). If that was because there were plans (tm) or it was actually a 'not yet' that's possible, but don't make it out like it was always happening when we were given a big fat NOPE.

Lisaera

Elryn said:

I think for me the problem with Maeve is that she represents the lie that lurks within Serenwilde's current identity. The taint isn't actually that bad for nature or the fae, and she is eternally living proof of the successful integration of soulless energies into all of nature.

If the taint isn't that bad for the fae (just a different flavour or fate), then what did the basin need to be healed from? Why did Serenwilde blame the cities for Cosmic Hope, if Glomdoring and her spirits turned out just fine (better than fine, actually)? We are only left with shallow, petty reasoning about how they don't look like us so therefore they must be bad, or because the great spirits hate each other now just because.

The Maeve is literally all the things that Serenwilde holds most in esteem (fae, great spirits, nature itself) telling them that their differences with Glomdoring are at a superficial, preference level. The wyrd is perfectly okay, we just don't like it. Sure, we have historical emnities that I'm sure will be difficult to get past, but if Glomdoring was a quiet, well-behaved commune, Serenwilde should be perfectly okay with their existence.

I'm actually more inclined these days to embrace that direction, rather than try and fight against it. It would be very cool for instance if Serenwilde decided to incorporate its own flavour of the Wyrd, and gave up the frankly losing argument that 'pure' nature exists any more, and that its worth protecting. Maybe it could be the wild, mystical version of the Wyrd, where Glomdoring's original is dark and frightening. And then Serenwilde at least has its own flavour to profligate through the basin (since ethereal forest is now a bit confusing to have as the Hartstone variant). And then we can forge a new future as the forest communes working together in the Wyrd, just slightly different interpretations of it.

Very interesting! But fundamentally wrong. The taint is corrosive and destructive, and every time Maeve has been introduced to its power, it has historically warped her and changed her. The same is not true of the wyrd, which cancels out your first paragraph. 

There will also be no future iterations of the wyrd phenomenon. It is itself a strange and disparate aspect of what happened when Viravain and Isune merged, and the event is as peculiar as the notion that Serenwilde's nature needs anything to strengthen it. While the communes represent the balance between the natural world and the cities (and vis-a-vis the cities' fractured relationship to the natural world), Xenthos and Lerad articulated this argument the best by reminding us that the Maeve will live on without the communes (and, fundamentally, the world) -- but the communes (and again, the world) cannot live without the Maeve. 

So while the Serenwilde fights to regain purity, which is loosely described as the Basin of Life before cities (and, in some cases, what the land looked like before the gods splintered), they're also doing their part to protect the Maeve Consciousness from serious threats. The wyrd is threatening, but it is not nearly as dangerous as the taint (hello! the tainted people are the ones who branded her in the first place!). 

I would certainly hope Serenwilde doesn't decide to embrace anything new that might tip the scales, as entertaining as that may be. I get where you're coming from, though! Why can't Celest just let the Sea of Despair leak into the rest of the ocean? Why can't Gaudiguch just let Hallifax install air conditioners? Why can't I keep Drocilla out of my closet? 

Lisaera

Portius said:

So, changing the fae changes Maeve, right? Because she's their collective spirit?

Does that mean that she would start to take on eaf-like characteristics if people made enough of them? Or that we could turn her into a super eaf? (Admin, please make it so.)

Eafs are manmade abominations. Veto. (again, I cannot say one way or another, but if Lisaera ever finds out, Gaudiguch better learn how to live on top of its pretty pyramids 'cause I'm smelling another flood).

Hoaracle

Lisaera said:

Ulalah said:

So, the Maeve is the forest fae. Does  that mean only the fae within Faethorn, or also fae like the spriggan, redcaps, etc. Or do we count all forest fae as everything that isn't a Great Spirit, cosmic abomination, etc?

I know through talking to Juur that the Maeve dislikes spriggans and the like, but as she only banished them rather than exterminated them, does it indicate she's part of them?

That's tricky. It's unclear whether all of the dark fae Manteekan created were installed into the Maeve Consciousness at her inception. We do know that most of the dark fae were conjured with the war in mind, and so it's likely that some of them -- if not all of them -- were somehow used to influence Maeve's power. That's also a dynamic Manteekan is using to his advantage right now, so it'd be uncouth of us to really say one way or another. 

There are plenty of fae in Lusternia that have nothing to do with Maeve. The hyfae of the Undervault, for example, or the ice fae of Frosticia. 

In some sense, it has to be the case that at least some of the fae Manteekan awoke are a part of Maeve. We know this from the Book of Elfenehoala. Also, it isn't the case that Maeve banished them (or rather, her alone that did). As a certain quest reveals, some of Manteekan's fae were segregated in order to rehabilitate them. For instance, the redcaps were brought under the heel of Night. The iceborne were also placed in Frosticia in order to be rehabilitated too. Maeve banished Wydyr in the aftermath of Night's tainting, which is a different issue altogether (furthermore, she probably doesn't have the power to exterminate a fae "species.")

Lisaera

Lavinya said:

Hoaracle said:

Tremula said:

Was this a sudden change of heart? What was the thought process behind removing the brand?

What's to stop Magnagora from delving into a big project where they brand Maeve and bring back the Dame?

1.) To my knowledge, there was always the possibility of the brand being removed. In fact, there were several attempts on behalf of the admin to determine how exactly we would do that, but nothing happened until this latest event. 

2.) Nothing. There is nothing to stop Magnagora from doing this. 

We were directly admin told 'no this is not happening' when we looked into it previously (Magnagora and Glomdoring this was). If that was because there were plans (tm) or it was actually a 'not yet' that's possible, but don't make it out like it was always happening when we were given a big fat NOPE.

Please refer to my response to Tremula. It's very unfortunate that this was a hard no from one of us, but I can transparently say that the idea of completing the brand saga was never out of reach for us. In that exact moment, the administrator may have been suggesting that there's nothing happening with it because something hadn't really caught on, but let's be clear, from now on, that "never" is a flimsy word that shouldn't exist in the "can we do this?" column. It may not be feasible in that exact moment, but who knows? Maybe someday, I WILL keep Drocilla out of my closet for good.  

Riluna

Are all Fae, everywhere, even on Frosticia, from underneath the Sea, a part of the Maeve? Or is it just Forest Fae?

Lavinya

Lisaera said:

Lavinya said:

Hoaracle said:

Tremula said:

Was this a sudden change of heart? What was the thought process behind removing the brand?

What's to stop Magnagora from delving into a big project where they brand Maeve and bring back the Dame?

1.) To my knowledge, there was always the possibility of the brand being removed. In fact, there were several attempts on behalf of the admin to determine how exactly we would do that, but nothing happened until this latest event. 

2.) Nothing. There is nothing to stop Magnagora from doing this. 

We were directly admin told 'no this is not happening' when we looked into it previously (Magnagora and Glomdoring this was). If that was because there were plans (tm) or it was actually a 'not yet' that's possible, but don't make it out like it was always happening when we were given a big fat NOPE.

Please refer to my response to Tremula. It's very unfortunate that this was a hard no from one of us, but I can transparently say that the idea of completing the brand saga was never out of reach for us. In that exact moment, the administrator may have been suggesting that there's nothing happening with it because something hadn't really caught on, but let's be clear, from now on, that "never" is a flimsy word that shouldn't exist in the "can we do this?" column. It may not be feasible in that exact moment, but who knows? Maybe someday, I WILL keep Drocilla out of my closet for good.  

Sorry, I started posting before I saw that! I'm very glad to hear it. The statement just pinched because there were player plans and hopes that were dashed oocly so nothing happened icly (not that I think we shouldn't have rped it anyway). Future reference - no means come up with a better idea?

Lisaera

Riluna said:

Are all Fae, everywhere, even on Frosticia, from underneath the Sea, a part of the Maeve? Or is it just Forest Fae?

Just the forest fae. When the soulless were attacking and the forests were under constant siege, the Elder Gods who were sympathetic of the natural world pooled their resources and helped coax the Maeve Consciousness into being from the collective spirits of the forests they were trying to protect. She's the embodiment of all of the known forest fae -- and perhaps fae we haven't seen or heard from yet. 

Lisaera

@lavinya exactly! A few administrators and I were chewing on the idea that another administrator may have gave a flat "no" to something that we were never really given direction on, and we're pretty solidly concluding that it may have been a case of in-game egos. 

For example, if Lisaera decides to weave an everlasting storm into existence above Glomdoring that zaps people every time they call Her a hag, She's 100% likely to announce to Her followers that there's no way to get rid of that storm. Glomdoring is toast, cackle cackle cackle, case closed. 

That isn't stopping Viravain from coming up with some dastardly plan to ruin Lisaera's fun, however. 

Riluna

Are Fae outside the Collective i.e. kelpies, enemies?

Lisaera

Riluna said:

Are Fae outside the Collective i.e. kelpies, enemies?

I hope not! Think of them as just different elements that don't make up the whole. Hydrogen and oxygen are pretty handy when it comes to creating water, so we don't really need helium. That doesn't make helium evil. It just makes helium extra when it comes to making water. 

edit: when I made this argument for Hoaracle in the Havens, I didn't use chemistry originally. I used RuPaul. So I'll do it here, now, for people who hate science--

Think of the hyfae and kelpies as filler queens. They're fine and good, but they're not exactly full of charisma, uniqueness, nerve, and talent, which is what Mama Maeve's fae have. If you tried to make a non-Maeve fae lipsync against one of the fae who is destined to be Lusternia's next drag superfae, they'll have a hard time surviving, by virtue of their connection to Mama Maeve, but they aren't evil. They just aren't "fae royalty," if you will. 

Tridemon

The kelpies are pretty closely related to the forest fae in any case- to the point where Jeitara and Lanikai are aunts to one of the named fae within faethorn. Which was something of a nuisance when Jeitara was pulled out of the Carai Caroo for the marriage.