Should Arts have an AGREE command for individuals being "recorded"?

13»

Comments

  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,581 Transcendent
    Eventru said:
    Eventru said:
    Well, yes, it is a "bit more" work than doing nothing- but I don't think it's a "big change". :P

    Basically: If we want to envoy it, I don't see any reason why we shouldn't!
    It's "a bit more work" as opposed to making it just no workable on someone you've snubbed.
    That's true, but snub is supposed to be an OOC mechanic really.  I'd rather just have the ability to opt out without going to the extreme of snub.
    That's true, but I would rather not change an entire ability because of one annoying person! :p
    Uh, it's happened any number of times.

    See: Narsrim.

    Sometimes you just have to make changes because someone's abusing a good thing.
    image
  • TullyTully Member Posts: 170 Capable
    edited February 2013
    The thing is, is the objection based on character (IC), or player (OOC)?  Because it seems like it's the latter.  If that's the case, the snub option might be more useful, especially considering arts is useful for getting images of rare denziens or long-retired players.  

    I think the reason why I'm playing devil's advocate is most of the objection seems to be based on OOC--players equating unauthorized figurines to equivalent of stalking or identity theft--and since the admin don't see it that way it feels like people are trying to make In-Game changes because of it as a workaround.  That's what I find objectionable--although admittedly it's sort of an IC/OOC blurring.  

    In a game where you can get trophies, totems, and other body parts preserved and mounted, it seems odd that its considered okay, but somehow one player making a figurine and keeping it her private shop is warranting change to a whole mechanic, just because players can't kill the other player or steal the item.  That's why I advocate ignoring the perpetrator instead of getting upset about it like I did in the other thread.  

    [BANNERCODE]
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,581 Transcendent
    Most of those things decay in shops now, so you know they are going to go away.  It's a lot easier to ignore it when you know it's ephemeral.

    They also have very short decay timers, for most of them.

    So, there is a pretty significant difference between the two.

    Finally, many mechanics have been changed due to abuse on an OOC level.  How about the ability to transfer curio pieces without getting one in return?  That was abused quite massively, but it only really bothers people (especially admin) on an OOC level.

    That's why I find the argument "but it's OOC frustration!" to be specious.  In the end it does not matter whether it's IC angst or OOC angst, it's angst being forced upon players who'd like some way to deal with it.

    Making it a channeled action is, to me, the most complete way of addressing the problem.  It leaves everyone with the choice.  And it's not like an NPC is going to say "no" when you start sketching it. :P
    image
  • TullyTully Member Posts: 170 Capable
    edited February 2013
    Curio transfer abuse is no way on the same level as being depicted in a painting.  Most of the rules changes come from combat oriented situations, or situations that really grief a player based on work or captial outlay (theft of gold, credits, etc.).

    Making it a channeled action is, to me, the most complete way of addressing the problem.  It leaves everyone with the choice.  And it's not like an NPC is going to say "no" when you start sketching it. :P
    But basically, because you're annoyed with one person doing something, you now want a way to prevent ANYBODY from drawing you without your permission, which I'm not sure is something that should be forced on the entire player base.  Especially if it means wasting admin resources on something that players should be able to ignore, or if it means unintended consequences like changing the status quo.  

    In this case, this is why you have tools like shoutsoff or snubbing instead of forcing mechanics changes like getting rid of shouts altogether, which I remember people complaining about in threads like this.   Since you said the difference between IC and OOC angst is "specious", don't feel that the solution has to be IC for this type of abuse.

    As far as drawing a denzien--I remember a contest where I asked somebody to draw all 12 "astral critters".  I could see that being much harder as a channeled action now.  Small thing, I know, but most of these requests being made have unintended consequences...
    [BANNERCODE]
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    edited February 2013
    My character is a private person, and (to my knowledge) the only other figurine that has ever existed her was (it's probably decayed by now) in the possession of her husband, twin to the figurine she had of him. The effigy of her is/was one of the few romantic things she held onto, and had a lot of sentimental, deeply personal value.

    So no, for all characters it's not just an OOC frustration  I'd be frustrated IRL with someone taking a picture of me and using it for profit, and would feel like it would be identity theft. My character has the same feeling, and additional reasons to object. 

    Making it so that anyone has to have permission to sketch you is a reasonable request, and isn't at all like removing shouts all together. You'll still be able to sketch people, that mechanic wouldn't be removed! However just as each person can opt out of listening to you shout at them, each person will be able to opt out of you sketching/sculpting them.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,581 Transcendent
    And again, I find your argument specious; what's with this "wasting admin resources" on something that would make the game better for players?

    That's the entire point of envoys!  We often put forward little quality-of-life things that players could script, but which makes a better, more healthy game if players don't have to script it and everyone has access.

    If an envoy wants to use their slot (which, by the way, would be consuming admin resources either way if accepted), what's the problem?
    image
  • TullyTully Member Posts: 170 Capable
    edited February 2013
    Xenthos said:
    And again, I find your argument specious; what's with this "wasting admin resources" on something that would make the game better for players?

    I have no objection to envoys asking for something.  But I used the term "wasting resources" because Eventru just said it would take more work than the other solution and that he was more inclined to alter the snub feature.  


    [BANNERCODE]
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,581 Transcendent
    edited February 2013
    Tully said:

    I have no objection to envoys asking for something.  But I used the term "wasting resources" because Eventru just said it would take more work. 

    Taking more work != wasting resources.
    image
  • LavinyaLavinya Queen of Snark AustraliaMember Posts: 3,477 Transcendent
    If you read my response, you will see that I WANT to resolve it icly, because my character was HIGHLY annoyed at it - I think she mentioned on the city aether that her delightful visage is not for profit. The person doing it is a city enemy and someone who was cast out of the family in disgrace, so yes, my CHARACTER has some very large concerns over her image in the hand of such a person. Yet because she has me snubbed, I can't even do so much as write her a strongly worded letter, because then I would be abusing her snub, enemying her to clans or the like is incredibly immature and pointless (and petty) in my opinion...so why should she be allowed to take ANY action like this, towards me, while hiding behind a snub, where I have no means to respond or converse or do anything to resolve the problem? It's an irritating loophole, that's what this is. Considering snub doesn't even allow her to target an emote at me, why should she still be able to run off with my likeness? I'm not the one exhibiting poor roleplay here, I'm the one prevented from roleplaying entirely, because of an ooc mechanic that is awkward in itself to rp around, and that makes me the player extremely frustrated.

    SO PLEASE. For the sake of my and other people's sanity, those of us that actually care about roleplay and continuity for their actions, a way to move and cancel the action or similar would make a world of difference. That, or make a bigger change to snub - if someone wants to snub you, make it as though you don't even exist to them - don't let them look at you, or paint/sculpt you or even attack you. It might make people far less frivolous and free with snubbing for no reason, too.



  • NeosNeos The Subtle Griefer Member Posts: 1,538 Transcendent
    Lavinya said:
    even attack you
    This would be a really bad thing.
    Love gaming? Love gaming stuff? Sign up for Lootcrate and get awesome gaming items. Accompanying video.

     Signature!


    Celina said:
    You can't really same the same, can you?
    Zvoltz said:
    "The Panthron"
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,581 Transcendent
    Oh, wildnodes are occurring?

    *snub everyone on the other team, uproot their nodes*
    image
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,867 Transcendent
    I believe she means that whoever snubs you cannot see nor attack you.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • KagatoKagato Auckland, New ZealandMember Posts: 1,278 Mythical
    edited February 2013

     Personally I still stand firmly by the idea that making a figurine, painting a portrait, anything like that should be a channeled action.  When it comes down to it, it doesn't make sense that they can make what is effectively considered a lifelike portrait/sculpture of the person in the blink of an eye.  That is some FAST artwork.

    It doesn't need to be a lengthy channel, it could even have a couple of lines thrown in, similar to how when you destroy a painting it periodically says that you scrape bits of paint away - an example could be "Kagato considers the form of Eventru for a moment before chipping away at the figurine, bringing it closer to completion" - maybe have it do that a couple of times, alerting the person that they are being sculpted/painted, giving them the option to leave the room if they do not wish to have it done.

    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • NihtaNihta Member Posts: 142 Adept
    I like the channeled action idea too. If you are waiting at a bus stop irl, it is easy for someone to sketch you without your permission - but if you walk away, or ask them to stop, or hit them, it is likely that they will stop (if only to file charges against you for the violence).

    Basically, an AGREE does not seem to make much sense to me, but a channeled action does, especially since its really difficult to make a sketch in 0.2 seconds irl.
  • KagatoKagato Auckland, New ZealandMember Posts: 1,278 Mythical
    edited February 2013
    admittedly one thing I'd like to see, (but isn't likely) is some kind of "failed" result if someone walks out mid-sketch

    For example

    Successful: A pristine sketch of Iosai
    Failed: An stick-figure drawing of Iosai

    >:)

    (That would definitely be asking a bit much though)

    (I'll stop derailing now)
    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Sign In or Register to comment.