Quick Combat Questions

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  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,584 Transcendent
    @Maligorn isn't blindness recognised as not an affliction by most passive curing stuff?
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    Trueblindsight (the state when you have the secondsight defense while also having the "blindness" aff) isn't cured passive curing, but I'm not 100% sure of when you only have the blindness aff, and whether or not passive curing will pick it up.

  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,765 Transcendent
    That's a good question. I dunno.

    image
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,584 Transcendent
    Blindness isnt cured by most passive curing it seems. Not tested all but.
  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    So during the revolt, I forgot to put up insomnia/kafe, and got hit with morphite. This is how long it took to wake:

    http://hastebin.com/isodoholog.vbs

    It was around 20-30 seconds, I think (sorry for no timestamps). I've tried reproducing this and even without defs I'm waking pretty quick. This isn't the first time I've been stuck asleep for ages. Is there an optimal curing or trick to waking properly?
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,584 Transcendent
    What's the counter to the mage force wall? We seemed to get stuck behind it in the revolt, no form of movement seemed to go past it, and it didn't seem like we could move the person casting it, we couldn't summon due to monos and move abilities seemed to be stopped by the target being shielded, beckons and stuff not sure if they were stopped by the wall or blockers. But we just seemed to have to sit there until it faded away. Is it like just a time based shut out mechanic like great pentagram then?
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Yes, it's a one-direction greatpentagram that requires channel. It's an aerochem ability. Using things like bond unite, or puzzle points that go behind enemy lines and attacking from a different direction is probably the best bet.

    Theoretically, if you can get someone with a puzzle point behind enemy lines to suicide in and raze the forcewaller's shield, your team can then star to use line of sight abilities to attack and afflict him before someone else raises a shield for them. Actually, I have a vague impression there was a change made that shields can't be put on a forcewaller, or maybe that's just my imagination. But yeah, attacking the forcewaller will drop the forcewall because they then have to heal or die, and once they start to sip or cure an aff, the channel breaks and the wall goes down.

  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    It should be autorazing shields on the forcewaller.
  • LithiaLithia Member Posts: 12 Novice
    Breandryn said:
    So during the revolt, I forgot to put up insomnia/kafe, and got hit with morphite. This is how long it took to wake:

    http://hastebin.com/isodoholog.vbs

    It was around 20-30 seconds, I think (sorry for no timestamps). I've tried reproducing this and even without defs I'm waking pretty quick. This isn't the first time I've been stuck asleep for ages. Is there an optimal curing or trick to waking properly?
    Far as I'm aware, this is just bad luck/RNG. Correct me if I'm wrong, I'd be interested to know if there's some other maybe lag-related reason, but this happens occasionally and it tends to be worse with sleep-based attacks.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    It looks like you kept spamming WAKE?
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    If I'm not wrong, it's 25% chance to wake up every second once you pressed wake. However, if you enter WAKE more than once per second, as Enyalida points out might be the case, it could be resetting that timer so you end up not waking up. Might want to look into what's causing your system to keep entering wake - possibly a trigger from the "you must be awake to do that" line.

  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,584 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    Lerad said:
    Yes, it's a one-direction greatpentagram that requires channel. It's an aerochem ability. Using things like bond unite, or puzzle points that go behind enemy lines and attacking from a different direction is probably the best bet.

    Theoretically, if you can get someone with a puzzle point behind enemy lines to suicide in and raze the forcewaller's shield, your team can then star to use line of sight abilities to attack and afflict him before someone else raises a shield for them. Actually, I have a vague impression there was a change made that shields can't be put on a forcewaller, or maybe that's just my imagination. But yeah, attacking the forcewaller will drop the forcewall because they then have to heal or die, and once they start to sip or cure an aff, the channel breaks and the wall goes down.
    He was shielded from a few movement abilities people were using, I just assumed people were usingg salt or something. Does it strip shields on a tick ena? If it strips it on a tick  can you not trigger to salt them to keep shield up effectivly 100℅ uptime.

     Does it have any down time or cool down like great pentagram? Like if forced to drop it how quickly can you put it up again?

     Or is there any restrictions on numbers? Could like four chems use it to block multi different directions in a room?
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,425 Transcendent
    We were on the other side of that barrier in Ixthiaca hoping no one remembered any of about a half dozen ways around that, teleporting to the newbie(s), bond uniting, DREAMWEAVE COALESCE, and the rift to EthGlom we discovered about 10~20 minutes after we got there.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,765 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    Forcewalls cost 3p, so once it drops it can be reraised a maximum of 6 times in succession if the aerochem decides to refresh power. More if there's multiple aerochem!

    One really good counter was using a crotamine dart from an adjacent room, because it went through the wall and put a death timer on the forcewaller. Now, the best counter is to beckon if they don't have blockers or fly above it. (Actually, I bet a mantakaya dart would work really well too).

    As for mass salt-shielding, I don't really know what to say. Iirc, the ticks that strip the shield on the forcewaller are kinda erratic (but fast), and they used to be silent but the new change that makes shield-dropping a third person message probably made it easier to maintain a salt on your forcewaller.

    image
  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    Enyalida said:
    It looks like you kept spamming WAKE?
    Lerad said:
    If I'm not wrong, it's 25% chance to wake up every second once you pressed wake. However, if you enter WAKE more than once per second, as Enyalida points out might be the case, it could be resetting that timer so you end up not waking up. Might want to look into what's causing your system to keep entering wake - possibly a trigger from the "you must be awake to do that" line.

    I was spamming an attack right before I got hit, so all of those commands failed due to sleeping (You are asleep and can do nothing...), and I had a simple wake trigger off that line, so it fired a bunch off the initial attack attempts. 

    I know why I attempted to wake so much. I haven't optimized my system for waking, because I didn't realize I had to. I am still unsure if I need to, as when I tried afflicting myself, I wasn't seeing wake spam stopping me from waking.

    Is there any other way to wake up, once you're stuck asleep like this? 
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,425 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    I think being hit has a chance to wake you, but other than that, metawake, kafe, or being a dreamweaver? Nope.

    EDIT: To clarify the dreamweaver comment, what I mean is not that it's easier to wake up, but that there's a way to escape if you do get put to sleep (Slip, or moving somewhere safer and COALESCE, or BODYSNAP (Though both of those have long eq recovery, so really, somewhere safe.))
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    I believe we calculated it to be that you needed 4 salters to successfully chain salt on a forcewaller. If people are committing that many resources to upkeeping a forcewall then you should focus on other ways of getting past them.
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,584 Transcendent
    Maligorn said:
    Forcewalls cost 3p, so once it drops it can be reraised a maximum of 6 times in succession if the aerochem decides to refresh power. More if there's multiple aerochem!

    One really good counter was using a crotamine dart from an adjacent room, because it went through the wall and put a death timer on the forcewaller. Now, the best counter is to beckon if they don't have blockers or fly above it. (Actually, I bet a mantakaya dart would work really well too).

    As for mass salt-shielding, I don't really know what to say. Iirc, the ticks that strip the shield on the forcewaller are kinda erratic (but fast), and they used to be silent but the new change that makes shield-dropping a third person message probably made it easier to maintain a salt on your forcewaller.

    Crotamine wouldn't stop it now with just sickening plus wouldn't salting stop the dart hitting? So flying works against it then?

    So a prepared forcewall team can essentially block one indoor direction near permanently with the only counter flying/traveling around in a different direction/travel artifact set to a location behind them. Its fairly situational but very powerful I guess. I wonder if you could forcewall all directions with a large enough team and basically have an impenetrable fortress room?

    Prepared team with forcewall + shadowdance brumestower would be impenetrable then even outdoors.
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,425 Transcendent
    You're forgetting burrowing and hunter bond shenanigans.
  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    What is this caused by?

    Your bruising damages you for 545 health.
    You strike at Veyils's gut with an ornate platinum rapier.
    You take up your weapon and forcefully stab it into Veyils.
    7950h, 4918m, 7800e, 10p, 26400en, 26400w Belxkd<>-
    Your bruising damages you for 539 health.
    You strike at Veyils's right leg with an ornate platinum rapier.
    You take up your weapon and forcefully stab it into Veyils.

    Is curing bruising the only fix?
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    For bruising damage? Yes.
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    Yes. Bonecrusher and Cavalier attacks cause bruising, which will deal that damage to you on almost every action you take. You need to CLOT it away. By default, if you have both bleeding and bruising CLOT will cure half of each, but you can do CLOT BRUISING to focus on curing bruising. I believe each clot will cure either 25 bleeding or 12 bruising with a base mana cost of 60. Half the cured values for when you are doing both at once.
  • RolsandRolsand Member Posts: 875 Adept
    If you don't cure that bruising you can receive some massive damage from pulp.
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Veyils said:

    Crotamine wouldn't stop it now with just sickening plus wouldn't salting stop the dart hitting? So flying works against it then?

    So a prepared forcewall team can essentially block one indoor direction near permanently with the only counter flying/traveling around in a different direction/travel artifact set to a location behind them. Its fairly situational but very powerful I guess. I wonder if you could forcewall all directions with a large enough team and basically have an impenetrable fortress room?

    Prepared team with forcewall + shadowdance brumestower would be impenetrable then even outdoors.
    Essentially, yes. A well-prepared forcewall team can basically maintain a greatpent effect in one direction indefinitely. The counters will be to take advantage of the windows where the shield drops, go in via a different direction, or the rare movement ability that goes through monolith, like bond unite or demigod anchor (does anchor go past mono? I think it does, not sure) etc. If there is no different direction, or you don't have such movement abilities, then it's just line-of-sight attacks versus salt-sprinklers/healers.

  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,765 Transcendent
    Yes, the forcewall+brumetower thing is something I've salivated over the prospect of, but it hasn't happened yet during my playtime (maayyybe Kelly's Ascension?)! It'd get fixed pretty quick, I'm sure.

    image
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,765 Transcendent
    Also consider that Trackers are pretty frequent now, and that a whole team of forcewallers would need constant salting and two blockers in every direction. Not exactly impenetrable :P

    image
  • SynkarinSynkarin Nothing to see here Member Posts: 3,216 Transcendent
    It'd be nice if you put as much effort getting around bonds that you put into defending forcewall.

    Everiine said:
    "'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in."
    -Synkarin's Lament.
  • ShuyinShuyin The pug life chose me. Member Posts: 1,612 Transcendent
    Pretty sure igasho carry beats that too.
    image
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,765 Transcendent
    edited October 2016
    edit: nevermind, low quality bait

    image
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,584 Transcendent
    Does bond untie let people follow you into the room?

    Also when used does it let you enter with balance or off balance?
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