Overhauled Armour, Suits etc

LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
edited April 2017 in World Library
So, I was doing my own research regarding armour/robes, aethersuits, artifact armour runes etc to find out how to min-max in the new overhauled system, and I realised that the new system has all the information scattered in various places in a way that can be very confusing, partly because different parts were designed/implemented at different times. As I dug deeper, I realised that this would be a good resource for newbies even, so here I am, making this post.

This information is correct as of 26 April 2017. (Please let me know or comment if you see errors)

Armour accessibility by class breakdown:
[Xslot] refers to the amount of enhancement slots (HELP ENHANCEMENT) that class of armour can hold

Class                                 No trade/credit investment                       Best Armour rating (Trans trade)                       Best artifact option (max enhancements)
 Mages/Guardians Forged Armour - 20% [1slot] N.A.
Aethersuit w/ Master mod + 3x Slot mod (275 + 900 db) [6slots]
 Bards Great robes - 12% [2slots] Splendour Robes - 16% [3slots] Aethersuit w/ Master mod + 3x Slot mod (275 + 900 db) [6slots]
 Warriors Forged Armour - 20% [1slot] Master Armour - 25% [2slots] Aethersuit w/ Master mod + 3x Slot mod (275 + 900 db) [6slots]
 Monks Acro: Tattoo Armour - 14% [0slot**] + Leather Armour [1slot]
Psymet: Forged Armour - 20% [1slot]
Acro: Master Tattoo Armour - 18% [0slot**] + Leather Armour [1slot]
Psymet: N.A.
Acro: 3x Armour Rune (1500cr) [4slots]
Psymet: Aethersuit w/ Master mod + 3x Slot mod (275 + 900 db) [6slots]


** To be noted that monks using tattoo armour, will have additional access to double the defensive tattoo enchantments. Also to be noted that this doubling is removed for psymets going the forged armour route.


Summary:
Someone intending to classflex all classes, and wanting full versatility with the best of all worlds when they switch, will want to have all three of:
1) full aethersuit
2) masterarmour with runes + gears
3) leatherarmour with runes + gears (for acro-tattoo monks)

And swap around when needed. For those who only have enough $$ for one of those sets, a full aethersuit is probably the best bet - they'll have to make do with only having 1 enhancement slot when they are a mage/guardian/monk, but will have access to max armour rating plus 6 slots for when they are a bard/warrior. Runing splendours is an option, but with the above table, probably very uneconomical, as you won't be able to use it as anything else other than a bard - there'll be better options out there.

Edit: I realised that leather armour can hold slots as well. So I've edited the above to reflect the option of leather armour with runes for acro-monks.
Edit: Based on feedback from Falaeron, I've updated the table to reflect that mages/guardians also use aethersuits if they're going for max enhancement slots.
Edit: Changed amount of slots robes get to reflect the actuality.

Post edited by Lerad on
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Comments

  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    Why wouldn't you just use aethersuit as a mage/guardian?
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Well, I was going by the armour rating. 

    Aethersuit rating is 12%, with master module, it would be 16% if you had trans tailoring active, and 25% if you had trans forging active.

    As mage/guardians have no access to forging, the highest armour they can get via aethersuit is 16% with trans tailoring active. Outlay would be 275db + lessons to trans tailoring - you would also get 3 enhancement slots for this.

    This is compared to 20% armour rating from forged armour, with just the outlay for buying the suit of armour - though you will only have 1 enhancement slot.

  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    No? Mages and guardians get the default 20% armour from aethersuits with 2 slots.
  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    edited April 2017
    Ah, I see. I had been probing as a different class, and it was therefore giving a different value. It looks like aethersuits give different armour ratings based on your class, then. Hrm.

    Edit: It only really checks for Acrobatics, it seems. If acrobatics, then the basic suit is 12%. If not acrobatics, then it's 20%.

  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    edited April 2017
    That means you would be spending 250 db for permanent armour and one more enhancement slot, as compared to just buying forged armour - with the option of topping up 25 more db for yet another enhancement slot, for a total of 3, if you're a mage/guardian.

    If you have the db/credits to spend, going for a full aethersuit with 6 slots would be the way to go for minmaxing.
    If you have no db/cash/trades, you'll generally just want to buy forged armour.
    If you have a decent amount of dbs and want to spend, getting the basic aethersuit for the permanance/convenience/coolness and one/two extra enhancement slots would be the way to go.

    Edit: Updated the table, thanks.

  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    Of course, there is also the fact that there are very few enhancements that are worth it.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,718 Mythical
    edited April 2017
    I can potentially check later. (would need to swap class and trade though)

    But afaik, shouldn't there be no difference between aethersuits and splendours/masterarmour once you have the master module? I thought the purpose of that one was to buff the armour to make it match them if you have the ability available on top of the extra slot.

    Oh for Wildewood, technically their best armour rating is 24% with hardened iron bark. 
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  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Yes, if you have the master module (275dbs total), it should be the same as having the trans trade ability - with one extra enhancement slot. The table shouldn't be implying otherwise - if the table is confusing you, let me know how it can be made clearer.

    Oh, I assumed wildewood/wyrdenwood were just the same as druids/mages.

    I'm... not sure if the Wildewood ironbark bonus will be reflected by the aethersuit. I have a feeling not - they probably won't get much out of aethersuits, is my guess, maybe?

  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,718 Mythical
    Lerad said:
    Yes, if you have the master module (275dbs total), it should be the same as having the trans trade ability - with one extra enhancement slot. The table shouldn't be implying otherwise - if the table is confusing you, let me know how it can be made clearer.

    Oh, I assumed wildewood/wyrdenwood were just the same as druids/mages.

    I'm... not sure if the Wildewood ironbark bonus will be reflected by the aethersuit. I have a feeling not - they probably won't get much out of aethersuits, is my guess, maybe?
    Hrm, re-reading it I think I'm confused as to why you'd need a masterarmour suit in that case, as mentioned in the summary.


    And I don't know about Wyrdenwood, but for Wildewood if you're just looking at raw armour then hardened ironbark is best, can confirm it's not reflected by aethersuits (have to take mine off for it). Can switch it out to buff if not.
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  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Oh, yeah, that's right. I forgot to remove that. Since aethersuits are 20% as long as you don't have acro, even psymet monks will want to get a full aethersuit if they have the $$ for it (assuming they're not using their defensive tattoo effects).

    Only acro-monks will prefer to use leatherarmour with runes, to get the best of all worlds. I'll update the table.

    Though, as I work on this, it's starting to turn out that a full aethersuit is simply the go-to for anyone who ever wants to spend extravagantly for their armour. I might as well delete the last column and just put that in the summary. Hrm.

  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,623 Transcendent
    Great robes have two slots. Splendour robes have three slots.

    Splendor robes for bards are identical to an aethersuit with the master module. Both give 16% armour and three enhancement slots.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,718 Mythical
    edited April 2017
    I was going to post at some point, might as well now.

    Given the way the master module works, it'd be neat if there was another one that could respect things like tattoos armour being active, hardened iron wood, and acrobatics.  (or just part of master/basic aethersuits

    Though this probably isn't the point of the thread, just seems like it's a benefit so widely available that it could cover the couple of exceptions.


    EDIT: heh, the emperors new module, can toggle to make the suit invisble and it feels like you're wearing nothing at all. :P
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  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,623 Transcendent
    Aethersuit with master upgrade means that everyone will have the best armour and the best enchantment slots.

    EG
    Warriors will get 20% armour and three slots. 25% with forging. Vs basic armour of 20%/25% and 1/2 slots.
    Bards will get 12% and three slots or 12% and three slots vs basic armour of 12% and 2 slots and 16% and three slots.
    Etc

    The only class/skill combo that the aethersuit does not work for is acrobatic, tattoo monks. A tattoo monk gets 18% armour where as if they wear an aethersuit they'll get 12% basic or 16% with trans tattoos.

    It doenst make sense to me that acrobatic monks get screwed over with aethersuits where as every other class the aethersuit is the best thing or the equally best thing to wear.

    Aethersuit is amazing for class flex unless you want to go acro monk.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,718 Mythical
    With the acro/ww thing, it seems like they could maybe be the first purchase for armour stuff, if only to be what you'll eventually put everything else onto and never have to worry about what happens if you classflex one day.
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  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Ah.. I didn't realise robes had an extra enhancement slot.

    This actually means... an aethersuit is just an expensive permanance thing for robe wearers (acros)..?

    Since you need trans tailoring for the suit to get splendours-level rating for the suit anyway, and splendours already have 3 slots. That means if you just make your own splendours as a trans tailor, and buy, say, a level 1 resist rune and use it on that splendours... you get effectively everything an aethersuit gives you, for cheaper..?

    =_=

    Well, suggesting or advocating for improvements isn't the point of this thread, but as I work on it, it's starting to look like there really should be some made to how this whole thing pieces together.

  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,995 Transcendent
    If you have ideas, please keep ruminating.  I have a nebulous list of things in my head (I really need to write them down at some point because I keep forgetting things) of things for Envoys to suggest when they are back.

    Armour-and-acrobatics was on that list, so I am definitely interested in this conversation.
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  • JaspetJaspet Member Posts: 59 Apprentice
    Can anyone confirm what the Master module does for an Aethersuit on a mage/druid with tailoring?

    Because it counts as 'armor' at 20%, so already doesn't count as splendors for mitigation. Meaning it -should- just be 20% with a 3rd slot if you have tailoring but not forging, correct?
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,718 Mythical
    Lerad said:
    Ah.. I didn't realise robes had an extra enhancement slot.

    This actually means... an aethersuit is just an expensive permanance thing for robe wearers (acros)..?

    Since you need trans tailoring for the suit to get splendours-level rating for the suit anyway, and splendours already have 3 slots. That means if you just make your own splendours as a trans tailor, and buy, say, a level 1 resist rune and use it on that splendours... you get effectively everything an aethersuit gives you, for cheaper..?

    =_=

    Well, suggesting or advocating for improvements isn't the point of this thread, but as I work on it, it's starting to look like there really should be some made to how this whole thing pieces together.
    True.

    The benefit, to me at least, in that case would be that an aethersuit is one thing to upgrade and possibly rune etc if you can afford the entrance cost
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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    edited April 2017
    You can upgrade your normal robes or armor with aethersuit abilities via gears, and if you don't want the aetherspace upgrades this is DRAMATICALLY cheaper. You skip both the entrance cost AND the tier 1 ability costs. 

    Personally, I see no reasonable benefit in the aethersuits for the majority of players. Same goes for splendours if you are not an acrobatics user. Slot benefits are too marginal, the costs you pay for those benefits are too high.
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,623 Transcendent

    Enyalida said:
    You can upgrade your normal robes or armor with aethersuit abilities via gears, and if you don't want the aetherspace upgrades this is DRAMATICALLY cheaper. You skip both the entrance cost AND the tier 1 ability costs. 

    Personally, I see no reasonable benefit in the aethersuits for the majority of players. Same goes for splendours if you are not an acrobatics user. Slot benefits are too marginal, the costs you pay for those benefits are too high.
    Aethersuits are great if you want to classflex though and use aethergears.

    Like if I put aethergears on my plate and switch to bard I cant use them without having 1500 credit pliers. If I've got the aethersuit I can switch back and forward between bard and warrior just wear an aethersuit and get all the aetherstuff beneifts and have the best armour.  

    Thats really the only reason I can see to get an aethersuit.
  • JaspetJaspet Member Posts: 59 Apprentice
    Veyils said:

    Enyalida said:
    You can upgrade your normal robes or armor with aethersuit abilities via gears, and if you don't want the aetherspace upgrades this is DRAMATICALLY cheaper. You skip both the entrance cost AND the tier 1 ability costs. 

    Personally, I see no reasonable benefit in the aethersuits for the majority of players. Same goes for splendours if you are not an acrobatics user. Slot benefits are too marginal, the costs you pay for those benefits are too high.
    Aethersuits are great if you want to classflex though and use aethergears.

    Like if I put aethergears on my plate and switch to bard I cant use them without having 1500 credit pliers. If I've got the aethersuit I can switch back and forward between bard and warrior just wear an aethersuit and get all the aetherstuff beneifts and have the best armour.  

    Thats really the only reason I can see to get an aethersuit.
    If you are going all out and maximizing your resistances as much as possible, the 300db Aethersuit enhancements are currently less expensive than the 500cr Great Runes of the Master Armourer.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,718 Mythical
    Enyalida said:
    You can upgrade your normal robes or armor with aethersuit abilities via gears, and if you don't want the aetherspace upgrades this is DRAMATICALLY cheaper. You skip both the entrance cost AND the tier 1 ability costs. 

    Personally, I see no reasonable benefit in the aethersuits for the majority of players. Same goes for splendours if you are not an acrobatics user. Slot benefits are too marginal, the costs you pay for those benefits are too high.
    As Veyils pointed out, they're really for people that classflex which is likely set to become more common. A, potentially expensive, piece of mind for people that would like to one day.



    Also, if dingbats are going to continue trading at 1:1...

    Runes of the Master Armourer cost 500, so maxes out at 1500.

    Getting say two second-tier gears puts you at 2100 credits, and if you want to change your armour that cost either doubles or goes up by 1500 credits.

    The similar module on an aethersuit costs 300, so 900.
    The aethersuit is 250 (plus 50 credits to get it customised with way more flexibility than forged goods)
    A master module at 25 and two second-tier gears at 350.

    The same thing costs you 1875, while also getting you two tier one modules (which is actually 2400 using gears)

    Even at 5 gears, the cost in credits is 3000 and in dingbats is 2925. (again with teir 1s value the gears would be 3750 all up).

    With absolutely everything, including flying. Aethersuits hit 3125 with normal armour reaching 4000.

    It's only really worth it to go the normal armour route if, either:
    You're never going to get maxed enhancement slots
    or
    Credit to Dingbat value isn't 1:1.


    Also like, you can tack on 1500 for pliers as an additional cost to get the functionality of having everything always available. But that just means that you need to be trading 1 credit to 1.5 dingbats (1.76 if you get all the 1st teir gears)
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 5,995 Transcendent
    One thing about aethergears is that you do not need to buy the tier-one gear, you can just get the second tiers which lowers the price quite a bit for armour.

    I'm not actually sure why the general population would bother buying the level 1 aethergears, so can just exclude them from totals entirely imo.
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  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,718 Mythical
    Also like, customisations are great. I have a set of hunting leathers, Barrin has this Maylea-inspired suit. Want to be a warrior in a poofy-dress that's the equivalent of full plate? That's an aethersuit.
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  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    edited April 2017
    This makes me sad to read. Newbie me got tailoring, designed a splender, and dumped some runes on it, so I basically nerfed myself before I even got started :/ (I'm guardian).
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 1,718 Mythical
    edited April 2017
    Xenthos said:
    One thing about aethergears is that you do not need to buy the tier-one gear, you can just get the second tiers which lowers the price quite a bit for armour.

    I'm not actually sure why the general population would bother buying the level 1 aethergears, so can just exclude them from totals entirely imo.
    That was factored into the numbers, the tier ones are only included when mentioned for credits.

    Though, from memory you can get gears for aethersuits, so maxing out that way would mean 1375 db and 1500 credits (2875 in total)

    That said, if you do have a 1st tier that you want, it's better to get that and it's second tier as upgrades for the 100 db discount, which would then pay for another 1st tier to get you a 50 db discount on it's second tier.
    If you want two tier 1s, looking at it, it's 50 cheaper to go upgrades and just get all the tier ones, than it is to buy gears.
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  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    Breandryn said:
    This makes me sad to read. Newbie me got tailoring, designed a splender, and dumped some runes on it, so I basically nerfed myself before I even got started :/ (I'm guardian).
    There is actually a trick that will get you 20% armour if you get an aethersuit.

    Since aethersuits are artifacts they don't occupy a clothing slot. If you put the suit on and then remove the robes and put them in your pack before taking them out and putting them on again, you'll find that ARMOUR shows you using the stats of your aethersuit instead of the robes. The runes of the robes will still work. The enhancements that are active will be the ones on the aethersuit rather than the robes. The only downside is that if the server restarts you might need to do this again (check ARMOUR to be sure every time you log in).

    Confirmed not a bug by Iosai. She just couldn't find a way to make it always use the best stats.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman Member Posts: 4,384 Transcendent
    edited April 2017
    So specifically it's for people who classflex in a way that would change their maximum armor level, but also really want aethergears and want maxed out physical resists. That seems like  a decided minority of players :p

    RE: Splendours, yeah. There isn't any reason to take tailoring for splendours, sux.

    EDIT: It's something everyone is aware of, and when envoys pick back up, presumably (hopefully?) someone will address it, particularly with special slots for that kind of thing. 
  • BreandrynBreandryn Member Posts: 1,521 Transcendent
    Falaeron said:
    Breandryn said:
    This makes me sad to read. Newbie me got tailoring, designed a splender, and dumped some runes on it, so I basically nerfed myself before I even got started :/ (I'm guardian).
    There is actually a trick that will get you 20% armour if you get an aethersuit.

    Since aethersuits are artifacts they don't occupy a clothing slot. If you put the suit on and then remove the robes and put them in your pack before taking them out and putting them on again, you'll find that ARMOUR shows you using the stats of your aethersuit instead of the robes. The runes of the robes will still work. The enhancements that are active will be the ones on the aethersuit rather than the robes. The only downside is that if the server restarts you might need to do this again (check ARMOUR to be sure every time you log in).

    Confirmed not a bug by Iosai. She just couldn't find a way to make it always use the best stats.
    This is really helpful, thanks. I thought I was stuck with splendours forever. I can't do this with forged armour, can I?
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    No. Forged armour and robes both occupy the same clothing slot so you wouldn't be able to wear both at the same time.
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