Trade Bans

VersaleanVersalean Member Posts: 965 Mythical
edited February 27 in Common Grounds
SUP! SUP! SUP!

Okay, so I'm curious as to how others feel about trade bans. For clarity, what I'm talking about is a formal rule within one organisation (e.g., your city/guild/Order/whatever) that forbids you from trading IGly with (an)other specific organisation(s). This very specific definition does not include the rule that you cannot trade with named org enemies.

While I'm not going to start by telling you what my opinion is, it's probably pretty obvious to anyone reading this post, and I suspect that it's blindingly obvious to anyone who's ever talked to me in-game. So I do have a wakabi in this race, but at this stage I'm just interested in what others think. Feel free to give your perspective from both sides of the keyboard: How does your character feel about such trade bans? And as a player, do you think they add a little something to Lusty or take a little something away from it?

<3 Love you in the face <3
Versa

Comments

  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited February 27
    Frivolous. Trades are either so numerous (herbs) that it doesn't matter because they're going to get curatives one way or another, or so rare (tattoos) that you have to RP gimping yourself while you find the one monk in your org who does them.

    Can't realistically be enforced, and only a turd would kick out a player for selling a Seren some sparkleberry. It's a game, trade items are literally a necessity. I get why orgs would want to RP tradebans, but unlike the real world, sanctions really have zero effect in Lusternia beyond annoying players. 

    If a shop wants to restrict access, totally cool. An org laying down universal laws over it is just a waste of everyone's energy.

    Let's just say Glom had some tradebans and I followed them precisely never. If I'm stabbing a Seren in the face does anyone really care I bought some sparkles from them first? No, they don't. 
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  • EsoneyunaEsoneyuna Member Posts: 47 Capable
    edited February 27
    There are various levels to this

    - Should an org ban buying items from org enemies?
    Nope, I mean gold is easy to get and buying at an enemy store helps you more than the enemy

    - Should they ban you selling general items via a store to enemies assuming the store is not in org territory?
    I would leave that to RP specifics of the org. Obviously Gaudiguch would allow it being all for freedom, while Glomdoring might be more rigid.

    - Should they ban you selling items that are specific to your organization (eg. crow cloak), esteem, dream sands or essence to enemies
    Yes they should


    Obviously selling curios, wondercrystals and so on is all fine as that is more a meta aspect.
  • VersaleanVersalean Member Posts: 965 Mythical
    edited February 27
    @Esoneyuna - Why is esteem "specific to your organization"? ETA - I'm not picking holes, just curious as to why you named that one; I get the others.
  • LiefLief Member Posts: 60 Adept
    Lief thinks that though it makes sense, it's a little stifling (how are you gonna convince enemies to ever potentially hop to your org if you can't give them a little honey?)

    I think it's cutting down on possible enemy RP for me, which is something I'd like some more of! Agreed that selling org specific items shouldn't be encouraged, but otherwise, shouldn't our characters be allowed to wonder whether their herbs are bad/poisoned? Couldn't a monk have a little bit too much fun with the whole process of tattooing an enemy? Etc etc.
  • EsoneyunaEsoneyuna Member Posts: 47 Capable
    Versalean said:
    @Esoneyuna - Why is esteem "specific to your organization"? ETA - I'm not picking holes, just curious as to why you named that one; I get the others.
    eh the specific is part of the list not the name of the list sorry. Esteem is used either to better a divine or their order or attack another's shrines. That is why I do not see it as ok to trade with enemies
  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,134 Mythical
    I just ignore them, nobody ever bothers me for trading with whoever I want
  • TirahTirah Member Posts: 435 Mythical
    They usually do more harm to the org trying to enforce them than to the embargoed org. 
  • KagatoKagato Carmichael, CAMember Posts: 1,227 Mythical
    Celest used to have pretty strict trade ban rules for some time regarding trading with enemy territories, at one point they even tried to dictate who people could do business with regarding their own aethershops (ones not linked to the city portal chamber) - you can guess how well THAT would have gone down.

    For a little while now though, the rules have been relaxed in that the only people that are not permitted to trade with Celest are those that have enemy status and citizens of Magnagora for obvious RP reasons.
    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • MoiMoi Member Posts: 1,162 Transcendent
    You should never lay down a rule that you're not actually willing to enforce. Trade Bans are such a rule.
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,423 Transcendent
    Arix said:
    I just ignore them, nobody ever bothers me for trading with whoever I want
    That's cause we're never sure if you're still in our org.  o:)

    My two silver:

    I understand org level trade bans in theory, but in practice the only people actually hurt by them tend to be newbies who don't know any better. I'll honor anything put to treaty/contract, but we aren't playing Civ, I'm not threatening embargos to get at your sweet, sweet cinnabar tile.
  • ArixArix Member Posts: 1,134 Mythical
    You stay away from my cinnabar
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 679 Mythical
    Too hard to enforce, and if you tried, it would just encourage more people to leave orgs to be able to sell to whoever they wanted. It makes sense to ban the sale of org-specific items or items that can be used to easily hurt you, but otherwise? Personally, I favor overcharging outside orgs vs trade bans, novices exempted.

    I don't even agree with making enemy status the determining factor- it's too easy to get enemy status unintentionally and often very difficult/more annoying than it's worth to remove the status. If someone is involved in active, constant conflict with myOrg or me personally, I'd probably refuse to sell to them out of spite, even if there was no trade ban. But if they were enemied 3 years ago for killing some random villager, then sure. For Lusternia specifically, it's a small community and you might well be the only person who can provide X who logs in at the same time they do... so I think that's worth considering.
  • SylphasSylphas Member Posts: 64 Capable
    If I'm shopping portals, the odds of me even knowing who I'm buying from, let alone bothering to check their status, are basically nil. Even as far as RP goes, Sylphas knows we're not going to strangle the leadership somewhere or cause policy changes in response, so what's the point? Free trade helps both sides and it's basically impossible to police, so it's easier and more efficient to do basically anything else to enemies.
  • KagatoKagato Carmichael, CAMember Posts: 1,227 Mythical
    Kethaera said:
    Too hard to enforce, and if you tried, it would just encourage more people to leave orgs to be able to sell to whoever they wanted. It makes sense to ban the sale of org-specific items or items that can be used to easily hurt you, but otherwise? Personally, I favor overcharging outside orgs vs trade bans, novices exempted.

    I don't even agree with making enemy status the determining factor- it's too easy to get enemy status unintentionally and often very difficult/more annoying than it's worth to remove the status. If someone is involved in active, constant conflict with myOrg or me personally, I'd probably refuse to sell to them out of spite, even if there was no trade ban. But if they were enemied 3 years ago for killing some random villager, then sure. For Lusternia specifically, it's a small community and you might well be the only person who can provide X who logs in at the same time they do... so I think that's worth considering.
    With the advent of being able to link city or commune shops to the aetherplex, it is a necessity for those shops to bar enemies of the city from shopping there, otherwise it gives enemies of the city/commune an easy point of entry into the city - the gates usually have a statue or totem just inside to catch them, while you can't have totems or statues in shops.
    Never put passion before principle.  Even if you win, you lose.

    If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?

    If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 679 Mythical
    Kagato said:

    With the advent of being able to link city or commune shops to the aetherplex, it is a necessity for those shops to bar enemies of the city from shopping there, otherwise it gives enemies of the city/commune an easy point of entry into the city - the gates usually have a statue or totem just inside to catch them, while you can't have totems or statues in shops.
    I have no issues with that. I'm talking specifically about individuals choosing to meet and do business with other individuals. Shops linked to the cities is a separate issue.
  • RilunaRiluna Member Posts: 1,105 Mythical
    Trade bans are just a way for us to pretend our RP has more of an impact than it really does. If our economy was actually legitimately org-focused, sure. That's what real world "orgs" do, after all.

    It's just an amusing pretense, (and even more amusing when you break it).

    Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 161 Adept
    As such I think it's a harmless part of the game.

    There could be a more nuanced type of trade ban: "Go ahead and buy whatever you need from anyone, but don't provide services to enemies/enemy orgs. They can generate their own gold, so it's no big deal for you to buy goods from them, but if you could potentially hinder an enemy org by denying them goods they need do it."
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