Furrikin & Wonderpipe Combo Discussion

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Comments

  • RasvinRasvin Member Posts: 44 Apprentice
    @Luce should we be able to avoid combat is the question? Are we talking during PK events or I am hunting and get jumped?

    Maybe making escape abilities not 100%? Let's say tumble/roll/SS has an 80% else there is a balance loss before you can try again? Numbers are always better left to envoys and more skilled players than I, so the 80% is arbitrary. 
  • TarkenTarken Member Posts: 38 Capable
    Karlach said:
    We've far bigger problems in escaping combat than roll. Wonderwings, tip hat and instant dispersal techniques all spring to mind. At least roll is telegraphed.

    This is honestly why I'm not that invested in arguing this particular point. I'm not keen on roll, but its pretty far down the list of major problems. My suggestion during discussion was to add a 1 power cost to it, but most people were opposed.

    I would like to see some of the terrible races brought up to the faeling power tier though. Will try to do more reports on that next month.

  • TremulaTremula Banished Quasiroyal Member Posts: 2,645 Transcendent
    Tarken said:

    I would like to see some of the terrible races brought up to the faeling power tier though. Will try to do more reports on that next month.

    <_< ?
                          * * * WRACK AND ROLL AND DEATH AND PAIN * * *
                                         * * * LET'S FEEL THE FEAR OF DEATH AGAIN * * *
              * * * WE'LL KILL AND SLAUGHTER, EAT THE SLAIN * * *
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    Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
  • TarkenTarken Member Posts: 38 Capable
    Tremula said:
    Tarken said:

    I would like to see some of the terrible races brought up to the faeling power tier though. Will try to do more reports on that next month.

    <_< ?

    I'm not sure what you mean.

  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,863 Transcendent
    edited May 3
    Tarken said:

    I would like to see some of the terrible races brought up to the faeling power tier though. Will try to do more reports on that next month.

    There's a very small list of races more awful than Faeling/Elfen these days. A few equally as bad, thanks to artifact bloat nullifying their racials.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • TarkenTarken Member Posts: 38 Capable
    I try to assume moderate buffs generally speaking, as the people with everything are probably going to aggressively minmax for their particular build. Faeling/elfen are pretty great races if you're outside that group though, imo (even if their limitations are pretty specific).
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,863 Transcendent
    Assuming T4 only, I'd rather bring bad races up to the level of Lucidian, Viscanti, Dracnari or Taurian.

    Assuming T5, I'd like to bring them up to the level of Lobo/Orclach/Kephera.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


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  • AeldraAeldra , using cake powered flight Member Posts: 1,166 Transcendent
    edited May 3
    I've said before that I consider faeling/elfen demi powers to be rather bad. Yes, they're buffs, yes they work for you if you happen to be a faeling in glomdoring / an elfen in serenwilde and carry a censer around / are a druid or always assume that you're fighting in a friendly meld and don't care about pve, but even then... ( yes aware that many other rooms count as natural too, unless, I believe, melded )

    4/10 regeneration in random rooms is not bad per se, but compared to a lot of other demi powers it does feel very lackluster. Though, even with being in the right org for the org boni, picking loboshigaru seems to be almost always a better choice.

    the 2/10 offensive buff... yeah, similarly its not bad, but personally I also feel like that it is both thematically boring and otherwise rather lacking buffs ( and especially NOT worth 1000 credit pay wall ). At least faeling get to fly at level 50, which gives the race at least some merit to it.

    Personally I switched out of faeling long ago and got a race hat. Using literally almost any other race has better options for me.

    Avatar / Picture done by Xeii. Wheeeeee 
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,025 Transcendent
    Hey, if you all really want to insist that they are super terrible, by all means add a 1/5 bal/eq bonus at Demi and make it 2/6 at demi+ to One With Nature.

    Alternatively (or additionally), add the ability to the races to summon a Dryad tree for 2-3p.  Cannot order the tree around.  Serens get the Moondancer dryad skin and it provides benefits to Serens, Gloms get the Shadowdancer skin and it provides benefits to Gloms, and everyone else gets a new Sylvan-skin (faethorn attuned).

    Dryad is so that you don't have races running around terraining the whole game, they will time out after a bit, but allows people to activate their powers if they want.  Counter is still chop.

    Personally, though, I love Faeling.  I was really sad about the overhaul, but once the bugs were fixed with One With Nature I never looked back.  I even have a cameo I have never ever used.  It definitely helps that I own a censer, I do agree.
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  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,863 Transcendent
    Let's not add more balance buffs to the game.

    I'd be happier if they didn't exist at all.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • TenakaTenaka Member Posts: 50 Capable
    Deichtine said:
    The common thoughts from a lot of top pvpers and envoys (not all but a large number for a long time, even as far back as Shuyin) has been that escaping combat has been too easy. There has been steps to fix this in the past with changing how skills and artifacts work and Furrkin is just part of this issue that escaping combat is fairly easy.

    Nobody said put escape skills behind paywalls. What they said was make escape skills easier to stop/hinder with... OTHER skills.

    Nerfing Wonderpipe would also solve the strong race combo issue. Because the issue is Wonderpipe, not Furrikin.

    Furrikin roll has been around since the start of Lusternia. Please, tell me how many top tier combatants - pre Wonderpipe that were Furrikin. Furrikin only became a thing when you could second race demi powers.
  • BairlochBairloch Member Posts: 80 Capable
    For many reasons, I don't PvP much. RP-wise, Bair is more of a star-obsessed, Winnie the Pooh, so that doesn't lend itself to duels to the death.
    But, out of curiosity, and only marginally on-topic, where would Tae'dae fall on this list everyone seems to be keeping?
  • TenakaTenaka Member Posts: 50 Capable
    Also anyone saying "raise other races to faeling levels" is saying "nerf all races"

    One with Nature is cancelled out by being Top Tier. It only benefits you as long as you don't invest in artifacts and then only benefits you in specific circumstances. - read: It is terrible.
  • KarlachKarlach God of Kittens. Member Posts: 3,863 Transcendent
    Bairloch said:
    For many reasons, I don't PvP much. RP-wise, Bair is more of a star-obsessed, Winnie the Pooh, so that doesn't lend itself to duels to the death.
    But, out of curiosity, and only marginally on-topic, where would Tae'dae fall on this list everyone seems to be keeping?
    Nowhere near as good as it use to be, for various reasons.

    Some races simply have dated with the last couple of years since the overhaul, they mostly need adjustments. Few need any major rewrites.

    The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."

    You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!


    image
  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 212 Adept
    Agreed, delete balance buffs from the game.
  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 212 Adept
    Tenaka said:

    One with Nature is cancelled out by being Top Tier. It only benefits you as long as you don't invest in artifacts and then only benefits you in specific circumstances. - read: It is terrible.
    It's also cancelled out by such rare situations as "someone cranked a music box" and "Someone terrained the room you're in".
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,642 Transcendent
    Actually the faeling/elfen regens are needed for even top tier folks to hit the 13/13 in most classes.

    The faeling/elfen regens are situational but pretty good to me. I found that a lot of combat happens in ethereal which all counts as natural so faeling/elfen get their regen bonus everywhere there even in "enemy" melds/terrain.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 7,817 Transcendent
    Deichtine said:
    Actually the faeling/elfen regens are needed for even top tier folks to hit the 13/13 in most classes.

    The faeling/elfen regens are situational but pretty good to me. I found that a lot of combat happens in ethereal which all counts as natural so faeling/elfen get their regen bonus everywhere there even in "enemy" melds/terrain.
    Remind me, are you able to meld/terrain anything other than Crow or Hart melds in Ethereal?
    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • LuceLuce Fox Populi Member Posts: 2,475 Transcendent
    Shaddus said:
    Deichtine said:
    Actually the faeling/elfen regens are needed for even top tier folks to hit the 13/13 in most classes.

    The faeling/elfen regens are situational but pretty good to me. I found that a lot of combat happens in ethereal which all counts as natural so faeling/elfen get their regen bonus everywhere there even in "enemy" melds/terrain.
    Remind me, are you able to meld/terrain anything other than Crow or Hart melds in Ethereal?
    I think I'm hearing Xion Initiative there. Are you asking for the Xion Initiative?
  • MrakMrak Member Posts: 232 Master
    There's an honours line associated with that, right? Yespls.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,025 Transcendent
    Shaddus said:
    Deichtine said:
    Actually the faeling/elfen regens are needed for even top tier folks to hit the 13/13 in most classes.

    The faeling/elfen regens are situational but pretty good to me. I found that a lot of combat happens in ethereal which all counts as natural so faeling/elfen get their regen bonus everywhere there even in "enemy" melds/terrain.
    Remind me, are you able to meld/terrain anything other than Crow or Hart melds in Ethereal?
    Yes, if you kill Maeve.
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  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,642 Transcendent
    Shaddus said:
    Deichtine said:
    Actually the faeling/elfen regens are needed for even top tier folks to hit the 13/13 in most classes.

    The faeling/elfen regens are situational but pretty good to me. I found that a lot of combat happens in ethereal which all counts as natural so faeling/elfen get their regen bonus everywhere there even in "enemy" melds/terrain.
    Remind me, are you able to meld/terrain anything other than Crow or Hart melds in Ethereal?

    What xenthos said. But even if you meld it to something else it doesnt matter for elfen/faeling because the thing that matters most is that its natural land even with any meld on top.

    Faeling/elfen works a bit oddly compared to reading the help file. Just want to put that up here because its confused a bunch of people already.

      o  Demigod: Trait: One with Nature. 4/10 Health/Mana/Ego regeneration in all natural environments.
    (Note: Elfen do not gain the One with Nature bonus in Blacktalon Terrain (Wyrden Forest)

    What this means is that elfen get their buff in natural lands or heartstone terrain. Etherglomdoring counts as a natural wyrden environment. So Elfen get their buffs in etherglom.

    If an elfen is standing in etherglom, etherseren, prime glom or prime seren or faethorn for example no matter what the meld is they get their buff. If an elfen is standing in faethorn in a blacktalon meld they get their buff.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,797 Transcendent
    That's really weird and I think unintentional.

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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,025 Transcendent
    edited May 4
    Maligorn said:
    That's really weird and I think unintentional.
    It is neither weird or unintentional.  Roark and I spent a couple of weeks with him tweaking it until it works the way it works now.  There are two checks:
    1) Is the base (unaltered) terrain a natural environment?
    2) Is there a terrain overlay, and if so is that overlay HartForest (gives the bonus to Elfen) or WyrdForest (gives the bonus to Faeling)?

    If either of these scenarios are true the race gets the buff, which makes it applicable in more areas than one might give it credit for.
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  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,642 Transcendent
    Yea "natural" is a lot of places its pretty good but its just compared to lobo is a bit iffy 4/4/4 regen in natural vs 5/3/3 everywhere
  • IxionIxion Member Posts: 735 Transcendent
    Luce said:
    Shaddus said:
    Deichtine said:
    Actually the faeling/elfen regens are needed for even top tier folks to hit the 13/13 in most classes.

    The faeling/elfen regens are situational but pretty good to me. I found that a lot of combat happens in ethereal which all counts as natural so faeling/elfen get their regen bonus everywhere there even in "enemy" melds/terrain.
    Remind me, are you able to meld/terrain anything other than Crow or Hart melds in Ethereal?
    I think I'm hearing Xion Initiative there. Are you asking for the Xion Initiative?
    Oh ho ho hooo...
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