Superbosses, Glomdoring & Conflict - Oh my!

AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
edited March 22 in Ideas
Hello everyone!

It's a delight to post in these forums for the first time. So I will take a moment to give a shout out to those that make my life amazing in lusternia. The idea suggestion is right under it! I'm very happy & positive...you've been warned! This is just a concept suggestion!

=========================Thank you begins==================================

Lady Viravain & the irreplaceable Glomdoring community. It just wouldn't be Glomdoring witouth you. Enadonella, Deichtine, Xenthos, Aurik, Rancoura, Crek & my dears to name but a few. I care about many more, couldn't possibly name you all.

Magnagora raiders:  For always being present to generate conflict. Just dont grief young ones.
Special shout out to Shango, never forgot that lovely chase across the Mountains of Madness when I'd just woken up. It delighted me to no end. I can always count on you to be provoked if I drum up a bit of trouble.

Serenwilde - Feyr, Lilybell & Elarin....your always working hard and trucking on. 
Gaudiguch - For betraying Glomdoring and creating the most amazing ascension ever.
Celest - Because Romaan & Tridemon. Wish I knew the rest of you a bit more too!.

Steingrim - He gets his own shoutout! Keep being you!

=========================Thank you ends===================================


Superbosses are something that's been on my mind for little while, conflict is at the heart & soul of player dynamics. Every day we see the PvP aspect of it - raids - but a little more subtle is the PvE side of the story. Novices or Elders influencing fae in faethorn to raise daughters, completing quests & roleplaying betrayals. Faction superbosses are an absolutly delightful aspect of that conflict. If Celestia is fully corrupted by Nihilists, all of the angels slain/sacrificed, should not a decent group ( 5-10) be able to slay the supernals and strike at the star of celest?  Shouldn't Celest be able to strike out at Magnagora in the same way ? Should their not be a reason to actually care ?

As things are right now, my impression, is it would take 25+ players ( Demi's or stronger) to even have a chance of slaying one Superboss. That is, if everything goes off perfectly and the clients dont crash for the sheer amount of text being sent back and forth. Witouth even adding up the response from the opposing city/commune...

I've always loved the dynamics of being vulnerable as an organisation or having a ''goal'' PvE wise and being able to pull it off with reasonable numbers. Not only would it bring back some lovely endgame mechanics but it would also buildup additional consequences to not defending besides just: denizens respawn, trueground area - Done

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The suggestion
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I will never suggest permanently weakening them.

Superbosses are amazing beings of terrifying power. In return they should be extremely strong and completly unbeatable by yourself. They are, however, beautifully attuned to their plane or forest...

Let us examine Glomdoring as an example:

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Our three avatars are Queen Lhiannan, Glumki King of the redcaps & Gwyllgi the dog of darkness. The mechanics in place to strenghten them work through the powerquest of binding fae, generating daughters of night/shadow/darkness to defend the Glomdoring. These daughters, when killed, shout out on commune channel that they need help/assistance or when they die. In return, the commune rises to the defense of the daughters during a raid & restores them by binding fae to revive them. Brother Crow, the final superboss, is tied into epic quests, drums of the dead and all the rest.

Unfortunatly numbers are not what they once were, so all that raiders may do is slay aspects & daughers...then harass defenders. That is well & good. But it could be so much more...

Imagine, if you will, the daughters of Night/Shadow/Darkness being tied to their own superboss: Glumki-Gwyllgi-Lhiannan. So long as the daughters live, the avatars themselves are unbeatable and near invincible (25+ to kill). Slay the daughters....and the superbosses weaken, their influence reduced. Suddenly, they are vulnerable, hitting for less damage, having less HP ( Killable by 5-7 people). In the meantime defenders hear the daughters die on the commune aether, reaching the avatars to defend them. Defending in the same room as an avatar? Avatar will grow strong/heal itself/hit harder. Until the players are killed or the raiders come up with a plan to isolate the defenders from the avatars. Then the avatars die.

Dead avatars must be revived through commune cooperation (something already in place). Dead daughters, by influencing fae. Empowering the avatars even further as the daughters are maintained, something even young ones can work hard at regularly.

Brother Crow would work in a similar way. Located on prime, within reach of guards. You would weaken him by slaying the aspects on Ethereal - something very easy to do - then melding prime Glomdoring and slowly removing the Wyrden influence. Of course, prime Glomdoring is much harder to get into then ethereal. Glomdoring players fighting side by side with Brother Crow would empower & heal him in the same way the ethereal avatars do. On top of guards & shadow totem defenses....it would certainly take an organised group & quite a bit of planning ( did I just suggest planning instead of impulsivity?).

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The most beautiful aspect of this is that every organisation has major denizens. Each organisation has a way to empower such denizens (to the best of my knowledge). The Superbosses - rewritten in such a way - would feel like a delightful way to promote conflict between organisation, pushing forward your own agenda (Wyrden, Taint, Light & Etc.). Sacrifices for the sake of alliances, like not kidnapping fae of faethorn, would have very real consequences on the strenght of your own superbosses. Which in turn will have consequences on the organisation itself. Leading to people having a much more valuable reason to defend, contribute & involve themselves to push their organisation's agenda forward. Alliances themselves would make much more real sacrifices to maintain each other.

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In Resume
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-Super bosses may be killed by 5-7 ( After fulfilling conditions)
-Denizens attuned to the superboss (angels, daughters, demons, ladies & more) weaken it by dying
-Prime superbosses weaken by slaying aspects & melding land (Oh hey a reason to promote mages&druids)
-Defending players - receiving shouts on city/commune channels - would empower/heal bosses by being in the  same room as it. Especially good for orgs with smaller numbers ( Maybe a scaling mechanic on activity? )
-Quests to revive Superbosses would be available once more.
-Strategies to defend/raid would be needed to slay prime & plane bosses. (Promoting prime pvp)
-Org alliances would have real sacrifices by not empowering their superbosses to please another Org
-New players & low levels performing org power quests would have a very real impact on the defenses of the org.


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In closing
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With that said & written, this an idea I came across in the hopes of revitalising a system which I would love to see far more involved. I would not even be surprised if Superbosses could be a thing tied into dailycredits.I think they were at one point? (Yes I know that discussion is closed). I write this idea here to submit it to everyone's review, I used Glomdoring as an example, for that is both my home & the organisation I am most familiar with. Ideas and imput is most certainly desired & even loved!

Sincerly <3
-Spinner Afollia
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Comments

  • CrekCrek Member Posts: 257 Fabled
    Defending prime forests would be very difficult/unpleasant. Totems do not function without a crow/stag user.
    The Divine voice of Ianir the Anomaly echoes in your head, "You are a ray of sunshine in a sea of 
    depression. I just wanted you to know that."
  • LycidasLycidas Member Posts: 555 Master
    The idea is in the right frame of mind, but with population the way it is, this is not feasible without driving even more people away. I don't think any one org, outside of Glom, can even muster five people, let alone seven. Granted it can be argued that alliances exist, but can the combined minuscule numbers of these smaller populations muster that many people to defend, or even attack? Even then, places like Hallifax and Gaudiguch that don't have loyals specific to any supermob, nevermind that they have a different number than other orgs. Communes have their 3 Aspects and iconic, Celest/Mag have 5 on their plane, then Hallifax and Gaudiguch just have...10+? I'm not trying to tear the idea down, just that lowering the requirements to kill a supermob is only going to hurt the game more right now.
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    edited March 23
    @Crek

    Prime Combat is really a bonus. I'm not entirely certain if cities have mobs similar to Brother Crow...I think necromantate comes to mind ? This is something I would love to find a way to better do it to account for lower numbers. 

    On short notice, maybe special callout when an attack is sent on prime? Spawning special denizens that rise to defend it and chase down attackers as the raiders slowly make their way towards their target. Just throwing ideas out here.

    @Lycidas

    I'm really  unfamiliar with Gaudi & Hallifax. There's no reason there couldn't be something special tied in if this became a thing though! 

    Spur of the moment thoughts:

    -Supersized creation that Gaudiguch vs Hallifax players could come togheter to assemble that would act as their ''flagged'' target. Requiring them to raid / collect things from an opposing org to birth it. Itself would create minion denizens that could be slain to weaken it, then slaying the creature itself.
    Powerbonus on nexus while it lives? ( I can see this being an issue though)

    As far as alliances & populations:

    -5-7 isn't a super huge number, and I'm basing it off people that aren't pumped up with artifacts and putting out huge numbers. So there's no reason that couldn't be smaller. Daughters in Glomdoring, the so called big bad, are slain pretty regularly even if there's 8-10 in a room. That said, balancing would certainly be done by people that are much better then me at it.

    <3 keep it comming

    PS: Edit - There's no reason challenging situations can't make people reach out to friends to play Lusternia...increasing our numbers<3.
  • KistanKistan Member Posts: 338 Gifted
    Afollia said:
    @Crek


    -Supersized creation that Gaudiguch vs Hallifax players could come togheter to assemble that would act as their ''flagged'' target. Requiring them to raid / collect things from an opposing org to birth it. Itself would create minion denizens that could be slain to weaken it, then slaying the creature itself.
    Powerbonus on nexus while it lives? ( I can see this being an issue though)



    Can we have five rangers forming a giant robot?

    Pretty sure we could round up 7 in Gaudiguch as well easily enough
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    @Kistan

    That sounds amazingly insane...I love it.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,918 Transcendent
    It sounds like you don't really know the consequences for an org that has their smobs killed, and unless you're looking to change those consequences as well, making smobs easier to kill is just tedious, unengaging work for the org affected (yet players feel an immense amount of pressure to set things right again because of RP).

    Your plans also encourage off-peak smob raiding, which is just an exercise in PvE (which is how it is now). You should probably look to eliminate that.

    image
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    @Maligorn

    My aim with this concept is, first and foremost, to restore the possibility of using a system which is inside our world, but no longer feasably doable.

    I'm more then happy to hear ideas that you & any others have into refining my concept so far. There are very real RP consequences for killing Superbosses. Which is the crux of why it's important & motivating to protect and work towards protecting them ...instead of - They just exist and are immortal -.

    As for offpeak raiding, it will always happen. Someone's offpeak is another's primetime.

    I do thank you for your words though and await your wonderful ideas.
  • LycidasLycidas Member Posts: 555 Master
    @Afollia Daughters aren't supermobs, not even close. With that clarification out of the way, I'm sure you knew it, just didn't read that way. As for org's supermobs dying, it causes really harsh consequences that take a very long time to restore. While I understand that this is to rally players and stimulate combat, we first need to get over the combat hurdle first. There is no lack of combat events that happen on a daily basis, the lack of combat stems from those not wanting to partake, rather than having nothing to partake in.
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    edited March 23
    @Lycidas

    I'm afraid you seem to be under the impression i'm expecting an implementation. I'm not.
    I'm delighted to discuss something I find attractive to discuss. Renewing a way to revive superboss combat. In a forum dedicated to sharing & spreading ideas.

    For your courtesy Lycidas, I've taken time to include this link:

    https://forums.lusternia.com/categories/combat-overhaul

    This way you may discuss your combat concerns with those who are both qualified & talented enough to review it. I'm afraid your valuable input is wasted on me.
    On the current discussion though! I'll simply make a quick resume of the above since i'm afraid we have a misunderstanding:

    Raiders do the following:

    Step 1: Slay loyal denizens affiliated with Superboss (Example: Daughters)
    Step 2: As they die off, Super boss weakens ( Example: Night Avatars)
    Step 3:  Superboss is brough within kill range for 5-7 players
    Step 4: Kill any players defending & Slay Superboss

    Defenders do the following:

    Step 1: Hear loyals shouting for help on city/commune aether
    Step 2: Reinforce Superboss by going into the boss room ( No camping on nexus)
    Step 3: This empowers & progressively heals the Superboss for any player alive in it's rooms
    Step 4: Slay raiders & Revive loyal denizens.

    Since this was mentioned above Superbosses are:
    -Night Avatars
    -Moon Avatars
    -Demon Lord
    -Lords of Light (I never remember the name)

    Gaudiguch & Hallifax would likely need a fun rework for this to work with them, but i'm afraid I lack the knowledge for suggestions. I would be absolutly delighted if an interested Gaudi or Hallifaxian would contribute.


    @Crek Shared a wonderful reason why prime superbosses wouldn't work.
    @Kistan suggested Power Ranger style super boss ?

    I'd love to hear other things along those lines.

    In Short :

    Not expecting an implementation, this is meant as a fun discussion to explore solutions to re-use an asset that I feel could use a revamp!
    ===================

    What I am hoping to hear: 
    -What you would do different?
    -It wouldn't work, why & what's your solution ?

    What is completely off track:

    -I do not like your idea - The End
    -Your idea won't be implemented because A, B, C is more important
    -I speak for <Organisation name> - Unless you are an admin

    If you do not like the subject, myself or wish to tell me how to take care of myself.
    Just do not post & the thread will vanish delightfully into nothingness.


    As before, lovely people, I delightfully await ideas & suggestions.
    -Spinner Afollia

    PS: Special mention for Crek & Kistan for contributing  <3
  • LycidasLycidas Member Posts: 555 Master
    There is no misunderstanding, and I've stayed on topic. I even fall into the category of what you're hoping to hear. It wouldn't work, gave why, and the solution is no change. So far, you're the only one mentioning implementation so that issue is also settled. If you're looking for suggestions, and only that, then I'll do just that. Brush up on what happens when supermobs die and all the consequences that follow, whether a defense was available or not. Making it easier to kill these beings will just increase the apathy and departure rate, rather than mend it.
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    edited March 23
    Dear Lycidas,

    A solution is not denying the idea and then suggesting that others will not enjoy the change as justification for the denial. I can most certainly accept that you will not enjoy it. But let others speak their own peace. I'm quite certain a few folks may even like the idea of being able to slay them.

    A solution, is seeing a problem - You dislike reviving the superbosses - then finding a way to change that to - Lycidas now likes the super bosses because A, B & C.

    Other then that? I'm glad you took time to share your disapproval.

    With tender care
    -Spinner Afollia

    PS: I know this may be hard, I am interested in making it work. It will not work is not good enough  o:)
    Post edited by Afollia on
  • LycidasLycidas Member Posts: 555 Master
    Lycidas said:
    The idea is in the right frame of mind, but with population the way it is, this is not feasible without driving even more people away. I'm not trying to tear the idea down, just that lowering the requirements to kill a supermob is only going to hurt the game more right now.
    Would you care to point where I deny the idea itself? I'm also quite certain that if you do read my posts, you will see the justification is a lack of population and the harsh consequences rather than people not enjoying it. I am also in no way attempting to shut down other's opinions, because that is also never mentioned. Lastly, why do solutions have to be offered if this isn't even being sought for implementation, is this not just a discussion about an idea?
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    edited March 23
    @Anita

    Okay I can certainly see that being a huge deal, did not even know that happened that badly. I do like @Devora's take on it.

    My original draft was simply re-using Supermobs that are currently in-game. But I could swap it to design something built around making new supermobs that would not leave people feeling so powerless. Not being tied to faction but spawning during a raid or in certain PvE areas to challenge the player base ?

    The concept would be essentially the same ( Weaken regular mobs in area, weakens superboss, let's it be killable). Except it not being tied to a player faction would remove the ''need'' for people to defend it and switch it completly to PvE. I think there are already one or two things inside that are built on a similar way, though not on the same level of power as superbosses.

    Onto the PvP Superbosses though?

    To prevent total faction whipe and domination, it could also be built in that the more the Avatars & Etc. die to a faction, the stronger the rest get? This way you could always slay one or two - if your really insanely strong - but not utterly and completly whipe out three orgs in one night. While they havent died in their current form in a very long time, - theorically - they could still die if the number of players in the room reached a point where they simply exceeded the Superboss's ability to kill.

    I'll see what I can come up with on both types to prevent griefing while still allowing some slaying & giving opportunities for others to do so on non-faction tied PvE bosses.

    If your familiar with the revival quests and willing to post them i'd love that.
    I would love to discuss a re-work of the revival quests to actually make it worth it for the defenders who spend so much time reviving the superbosses.

    Here are just a few examples i'd love to explore:

    -Exp buffs
    -Power bonuses on completion
    -Dailycredit bonus
    -Time required to revive reduced
    -Major RP event
    -Invulnerability on Respawn for 1 year 
    -The vulnerability on super bosses only occuring during specifique times ( New moon for Serenwilde  vs Full moon for Glomdoring)
    -Other fun reward ideas ?

    I am totally interested in making the PvP side of it fun & worth it for both sides, not just a frustrating endeavors as seems to be the case at the moment on the defense's side.

    Edit: I am very much reading and hearing the amount of disapproval posters have shared so far. So I'd love to find a way to work around that instead of just leaving them near invincible.
    Post edited by Afollia on
  • TarkenTarken Member Posts: 48 Capable
    I think dls/sups are a pretty good level for smobs. I think we could do those now with thorough prep pretty convincingly, but it would take prep and that's important because losing your smobs can be a massive pain.

    Avatars I'm not so sure on. Illusoryself changes made that one much more dicy, would be very tough with current game population to say the least.

    I think smobs should die rarely though. If they're dying every week that's an issue. Once every couple months is pushing it given the level of fatigue it can cause in the affected orgs. Still suspect spheres/fleshpots may in fact be too weak, but its hard to say without testing the new format properly.

  • Daxi StrongleafDaxi Strongleaf Member Posts: 43 Apprentice
    edited March 23
    If smobs were easier to kill, and became much easier to re-raise it might make for some more dynamic combat situations and make raiding the higher planes more than just people killing mostly-irrelevent mobs that cause a minor power loss.

    But no matter how many new or revamped combat mechanics you add, people are not going to suddenly start joining in if they don't want to.
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    edited March 24
    @Tarken

    I completly agree that the current state of things would be a lot of trouble for an org to revive their superbosses. Especially with all the feedback regarding the way they are revived from those who experienced it. It feels as if it would be absurdly tedious for no apparent gain with the way it's implemented. Which i'm under the impression is something everyone agrees with.

    @Daxi Strongleaf

    That's more what I'm looking for. Changing things up a bit in plane raiding aside from, gather mobs - raise illusionary terrain - kill defenders or get killed. By re-making the way it's implemented (shorter quests, more rewards for effort, easier way to bring them back) it could even be fun!

    ----------------------I will clean this up a bit later---------------------

    As far as Supermobs dying too often, it's true that they are intended to be amazing beacons of an organisation's strenght. Nigh invicible power houses.

    Since my original suggestion of tying them to the natives themselves to weaken them would lead to regular deaths during raiding. Why not follow up on idea number 2.

    Once again Glomdoring as an example:

    -Long commune wide prep questline from opposing Org
    -Involved Storytime for roleplay opportunities ( EX: Purification of Gloriana)
    -Full Moon rises  ( Mother Moon's peak, Mother Night's weakest)
    -Avatars drop to vulnerable levels (5-7 can kill + lorewise makes sense)
    -Cue Defenders vs Raiders PvP
    -Succeed in winning or involve yourself in defense grants various rewards.

    Dead Avatars :

    -short revival timeline
    -Involve major Org NPCs
    -Callback/Storytime referring the Org's history & lore
    -More Roleplaying fun (EX: Strenghtening the Wyrd, Spreading Glomdoring)
    -Rewards for everyone involved in revival who took time to do it
    -Avatars back at full power ( 30+ to kill ) until next weakening window.


    The advantage I love about re-writing it this way:

    -Everyone wins in some way (Rewards + Roleplaying + PvP fun)
    -It requires planning, you can't just walk inside and slay everything
    -It teaches the lore & history to new players
    -It could absolutly involve the new guilds story wise to revive them.


    Some things I would really like to be able to further refine this:

    -Lore/Story ideas for revival ?
    -Mechanic suggestions ?
    -Rewards:  What would you love to have for involving yourself.
    -Meaningful Moments for Celestia, Nil, Continuum & Vortex to design quests around.
      Example: Shattering the dome vs Star of Celest to create a weakening in DL vs       
                      Angel Lords. Recreating it so that it involve PvE instead of slaying
                      Superbosses. ( Only an example)


    In <3 with the feedback
    -Spinner Afollia


    PS: This idea is meant to make it fun for those who are present & active within Lusternia (Even ''offpeak'') and reward them for being even more involved ( RP-Rewards-PvP).
  • VatulVatul Member Posts: 200 Gifted
    If smobs were easier to kill, and became much easier to re-raise it might make for some more dynamic combat situations and make raiding the higher planes more than just people killing mostly-irrelevent mobs that cause a minor power loss.

    But no matter how many new or revamped combat mechanics you add, people are not going to suddenly start joining in if they don't want to.
    Actually for a long time after killing the entire set of Demon Lords we had no resources to stop the leakage of power. We had about five active people trying to stop it and couldn't successfully for a long while. It's not really irrelevant given the population drop.

    At current suggestions to changing SMOB mechanics aren't viable until the population swells and balances. Dropping them to anything beyond what they are now would allow for some abuse to occur.
    The cool night-time breeze shivers in the arid caress of the streets of the capital city, brushing the earthen taste of dust across your lips.
    *
    A blessed silence falls upon the city for the moment, most activity confined to the towers and the
    theatre due to the snowy weather.
    *
    Pinprick points of light twinkle in the deep black overhead, their brightness full of a cold,
    hungering malice.
    *
    Resplendent shimmers reflect brightly off the ground, reflecting serpentine spirals of viridian gold
    in every direction.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,918 Transcendent

    Tarken said:
    I think dls/sups are a pretty good level for smobs. I think we could do those now with thorough prep pretty convincingly, but it would take prep and that's important because losing your smobs can be a massive pain.

    Avatars I'm not so sure on. Illusoryself changes made that one much more dicy, would be very tough with current game population to say the least.

    I think smobs should die rarely though. If they're dying every week that's an issue. Once every couple months is pushing it given the level of fatigue it can cause in the affected orgs. Still suspect spheres/fleshpots may in fact be too weak, but its hard to say without testing the new format properly.

    I'm very convinced that Spheres and Fleshpots are still too weak, and all I can say is that despite all the issues I have with Glomdoring, I am grateful that you all aren't keeping the Spheres permadead every week. 10/10 restraint.

    image
  • Daxi StrongleafDaxi Strongleaf Member Posts: 43 Apprentice
    Vatul said:
    If smobs were easier to kill, and became much easier to re-raise it might make for some more dynamic combat situations and make raiding the higher planes more than just people killing mostly-irrelevent mobs that cause a minor power loss.

    But no matter how many new or revamped combat mechanics you add, people are not going to suddenly start joining in if they don't want to.
    Actually for a long time after killing the entire set of Demon Lords we had no resources to stop the leakage of power. We had about five active people trying to stop it and couldn't successfully for a long while. It's not really irrelevant given the population drop.

    At current suggestions to changing SMOB mechanics aren't viable until the population swells and balances. Dropping them to anything beyond what they are now would allow for some abuse to occur.
    Sorry my wording was unclear - I meant that currently, people raid Nil to kill imps and other minor demons, which cause a minor power loss, so it is easy to ignore, making Nil raids pointless unless Mag players choose to defend.

    The actual Demon Lords going down is obviously devastating. So if they are made easier to kill to increase conflict mechanics, they need to be made much easier to raise.

    @Maligorn How many spheres and pots are there in total? I am trying to work out if 'minor' demon lords, supernals and fae could be added in addition to reducing the power of the current smobs in Celest/Mag/the communes. Maybe the Saints could be added to Celestia as they supposedly live on there, and so on. So everything is on the level of Hallifax and Gaudi. 

    The problem to this idea of mine is that lowering the power level of Supernals and Demon Lords has siginificant lore impacts, as they should, by right, be more powerful than any other thing on that plane. Sure, you can have lore events to create or reveal the new things, but that runs the risk of diminishing the importance of the demon lords, cause look these other powerful demons. The saints in Celestia would work out a lot better, as IIRC they were mortals empowered to be avatars of each Supernal, but not sure if Mag has similar things. Perhaps five powerful undead created by Urlach could show up hidden in one of his contingency facilities and decide to take up residence there? We are a Lovecraftian horror game, but I don't think we've had any Leng ghouls show up yet.
  • DysDys Member Posts: 648 Fabled
    edited March 24
    There are 12 fleshpots and spheres. I think it's set so for all the orgs it's the same total essence to raise them.

    I'm sure they pop back up after a time by themselves (3 days? No idea, might be thinking biblically) but even though there's no real mechanical downside it's depressing.

    I like Afollia's idea about making them more fun or worthwhile to raise though I still wouldn't want to do it too often as things like that take time away from things I'd rather be doing 
  • Daxi StrongleafDaxi Strongleaf Member Posts: 43 Apprentice
    Do guardian and wiccan classes still lose powers when their smobs go down? That would probably have to be changed to not happen too.

    But you also don't want to get to a point where these smobs become objects of ridicule instead of reverence. "Gorgulu is dead again? Lol, he's so useless."
  • LycidasLycidas Member Posts: 555 Master
    Guardians especially become a toothless class when their smobs are dead. Anytime they die, you have to rebond/pact with them which is a power cost and in Mag case, exp cost as well. We already have smobs that are useless, except for like one IG month a year - Elemental Lords.
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    @Maligorn

    Right now Glom's mostly focused on Magnagora I think. Especially with the ''offpeak'' raiding that seems to happen a bit much. I feel like we'd need a reason to really go after gaudi that badly. Betrayal will most likely be resolved in a different way ( Totally above my rank ).

    @Dys & @Daxi

    I think current Superbosses all drain power in some way while down. If it works that way for Demon Lords, it wouldn't make sense for it to be different with avatars in the communes or on prime (AkA Crow & Hart).

    I absolutly want to move away from the  '' Oh hey are demonlords dead again? Let's not care'' feeling. It's completly agaisnt everything i'd like to make out of this idea. The whole point of why this started in the first place is this simple reasoning. The only thing protecting superbosses are a lack of population, if population picks up or someone brings in a lot of friends to one Organisation, slaying the Superbosses will again become possible. Protecting superbosses behind a population number does not feel like a solution to fix something that many of you have written pushed you away. Especially, the feeling of being  powerless while people killed things you cared about & drained your nexus. Being next to impossible to raise with a low population and being forced to sit back in misery over the mess. 

    I can't honestly see a serious Glomdoring vs Serenwilde conflict ending well if we were ever to take out the avatars. It's even part of the reason I stopped killing ladies in serenwilde & re-focused on Magnagora.

    With that said,

    I think we could find a solution to everyone's concerns by re-making the way superboss raiding works.

    The important aspects to it:

    - Small window of opportunity to kill them ( Like once a year thing )
    - World Wide warning message when someone triggers the kill opportunity
       ( EX : Mother Moon's light envelops Ethereal Glomdoring, illuminating the dark forest with her grâce and burning away the shadows)
    - Involved rewards ( Amazing opportunity for RP, dailycredits & cosmetic rewards )
    - Long Questline to trigger raiding window ( Bringing togheter the commune/city in an joint effort to achieve a goal )
    - Short questline to revive them ( Respawn would also work, but seems like a wasted opportunity)
    - Rewards should be focused on people who defend, attack & those who participate in the questlines
    - Player Defenders should empower their avatars - forcing raiders to actually make a plan to keep them out
    - Revival should be doable by 1 or 2 people if they wish to & have a respawn after a delay ( You should notice that they died, witouth feeling harassed or griefed over it)
    - Power drain - could - be dropped, but with the rate of respawn vs easy quest to clear it shouldn't be a problem.

    Does anyone have moments they find might be useable & tied to important NPCs within their orgs ?
    Would also love to start designing something from scratch using the new guilds to reflect revival!

    -Spinner Afollia
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 513 Fabled
    You haven't had to repact for ages. Last time the DLs got merked I lost access to deeppact stuff (symbol call/evoke, I think strike was still usable?) but not investments and didn't have to renew any of it on resurrection.
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    edited March 24
    @Kalnid

    Right, that's the kind of stuff i'd really like to know so that I can add it into the re-design. I'm not Nihilist or Celestine by far.
    I'd love to hear more on how deeppact works, how do you remake it? Is it a bit more then just walk up and re-make the pacts? Does it have a huge delay like gateweaving?

    If your familiar with other consequences that havent been said yet by all means write them down!
    If you know things you'd like to see in the re-make of the superbosses, also write them down!

    This way we can work things over into a positive instead of a negative. Remake it in a pleasant way while getting rid of the problems around it.

    <3 to all of you
  • DevoraDevora Member Posts: 192 Capable
    @Afollia Are you saying you would like to have an overhaul of the org affiliated supermobs that makes them more important to everyday life in the org and to PvP conflict between orgs? An overhaul that need not include or be limited to your original suggestion? That would definitely widen the kinds of feedback people could provide on this thread.
    Arix said:
    Tzaraziko died for your spins
  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 55 Apprentice
    edited March 24
    @Devora
    Devora said:
    @Afollia Are you saying you would like to have an overhaul of the org affiliated supermobs that makes them more important to everyday life in the org and to PvP conflict between orgs? An overhaul that need not include or be limited to your original suggestion? That would definitely widen the kinds of feedback people could provide on this thread.

    Yes absolutly. 

    My aim is to re-insert superbosses into every day content, while removing the aspects that pushed away people. My original concept was definetly an extremely simple draft, I can see there's a lot more aspects to it that I did not consider. Working out the kinks with each of you & your valuable experiences would be a wonderful way to get this started. My original draft was meant to get the ball rolling, not dictate anyone how things should go <3

    Glomdoring tends to be my area of strenght since i've played all of my time there. I certainly need some backup from other orgs & people that know how they interact with them in the hopes of getting a plan worked out for just such an overhaul.

    My first and foremost goal is to use superbosses to enhance RP, Quality of life & motivating people forward.

    ...not...Slay them when you have enough people and make defending org miserable.
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