If your characters org was deleted. What would you do?

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  • EnadonellaEnadonella Member Posts: 454 Expert
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    Ani said:
    Reasons why someone would be objected to / refused / made to jump through hoops in joining an org (please note that I'm not naming names, which orgs and anything of that sort. It's a general @ everyone who ever thinks of moving!)

    - Raiding territories connected to that Org (I.e ethereal plane of org/elemental plane of org/ cosmic plane of org)
    - Slaying of loyal denizens to the Org wherever they may be (other planes, claimed territories, divine pantheon realms, villages etc). 
    - Slaying of commune or city members. 
    - Previous or current enemying to the org / guilds of org / divine pantheon of org.
    - Previous citizenship of org.
    - In addition to previous citizenship, dependant on circumstances of leaving (I.e good terms, bad terms etc.) 
    - Previous citizenship of org that is currently "at war" or "at odds", or "contentious relationship" with org you want to join (regardless if none of the above apply).
    - Objections raised enough by the org to warrant a longer wait time or refusal of citizenship.
    - Any, or combination or all of above. 

    I might have missed a reason or two, but these are grounds that are taken into consideration-now- if you want to join an org, let alone if ever orgs are deleted or not.

    So, think back personally for your character and then you'll see why you may or may not be well received into an org or refused. 

    EDIT: This is all based on IN CHARACTER actions and does not reflect OOC.
    So basically anyone who has ever been involved in combat ever. If this is all it is then there is no reason I shouldn't get into Serenwilde once all statuses are amended which shouldn't be any harder to do than someone else wanting to join from the same Org having done the same things and having left Serenwilde previously for no other reason than wanting to leave!

    There is no reason for anyone to ICly treat Ena any differently than any other Glomdoring member who raids. Because she has not done anything ICly that is different to any other Glom that raids. In fact, I believe one or two members have actually done a whole lot more to upset Serenwilde than Ena, and I don't see those people being listed as undesirables. 

    So this is in fact based on OOC prejudices which are based on minor disputes where people have responded so crazily it is almost funny. But hey, it's the internet right?
    I stand by the Oneiroi's decision to pull the book from the public library. I will specifically withdraw the Oneiroi's reason why and replace it with my own words which I've stated to you several times: We reserve the right to pull writings in the public library in our sole and absolute discretion. Any reason given for pulling a public writing is out of courtesy only and not to be taken as a precedent or a rule.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,144 Transcendent
    Retire the character to move to a new character in a new organsation. *
    Geeze, Everiine. You're supposed to be a trill, not a troll.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EsoneyunaEsoneyuna Member Posts: 168 Adept
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    Everiine said:
    Deichtine said:
    Everiine said:
    Keegan said:
    OOC should have NO impact on your ability to move to ANY organisation.
    Ideally, you're right. But it happens all the time, sometimes with good reason.

    There really should never be an OOC reason to reject someone from your org. As long as the IC reasons are kosher they should get in for certain.

    [. . .]

    So yea silly rejects for OOC reasons apparently do happen and its something that I think the admin should police and punish.
    There are silly reasons, and those are silly, and shouldn't happen.

    That's not what I talk about in my fuller post on the matter. I stand by my assertion that there are/were a very very small number of players who, regardless of what org they were in, were OOC menaces, trolls, and bullies who caused so much trouble on an OOC level that I would have no reservations about denying their character entry into an org. Because at this point, it's no longer about IC stuff or RP. It's about making sure a shitty player doesn't kill the game for everyone else.
    Those things shouldn't be decided by players, any OOC level of policing should be the sole domain of the admins. In fact I think the admins should permanently ban anyone that uses ooc consideration like that in an org joining process from ever holding 'office' in any org.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USAMember Posts: 2,938 Transcendent
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    Esoneyuna said:
    Those things shouldn't be decided by players, any OOC level of policing should be the sole domain of the admins. In fact I think the admins should permanently ban anyone that uses ooc consideration like that in an org joining process from ever holding 'office' in any org.
    Doesn't happen though. There was one player in particular I remember who was shrubbed a ridiculous number of times for breaking game rules and OOC violations of code of conduct. They were the textbook definition of a toxic, destructive player. It didn't matter how egregious their behavior was, they'd just get shrubbed, then come back (same character), repeat, get shrubbed, come back, repeat. I watched player after player leave the game in disgust after things this player would do to them. You want to see my permanently banned for not wanting this level of toxicity around. It would be nice if you thought the person causing it would be banned too, since what that person was doing was far, far worse. Or if you thought everyone who OOC metagames should be permanently banned. But that's ridiculous.

    I hope I'm being clear in that I don't think "I don't like this person OOC I'm going to deny them entry" is a valid process. Sheesh, I've let in plenty of people to org and guild who Ev didn't like IC and who I may not have been fond of OOC. All I'm talking about is the very extreme end.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.

  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 476 Expert
    In any era of Seren where people care what I say, I've not stood for it either. Even talking strictly IC objections I've personally overruled those that seemed flimsy, frivolous, or suspect. 

    Making accusations then outright refusing to back them up is at most charitable unhelpful, and only, a notch back a grave misunderstanding of the facts, and critically someone making things up. It's fully possible that might be someone other than who is posting here, but still.

    That's the kind of behavior that sows distrust, division, and it's difficult not to feel like it's on purpose by someone in the chain of telephone.
  • EsoneyunaEsoneyuna Member Posts: 168 Adept
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    Everiine said:
    Esoneyuna said:
    Those things shouldn't be decided by players, any OOC level of policing should be the sole domain of the admins. In fact I think the admins should permanently ban anyone that uses ooc consideration like that in an org joining process from ever holding 'office' in any org.
    Doesn't happen though. There was one player in particular I remember who was shrubbed a ridiculous number of times for breaking game rules and OOC violations of code of conduct. They were the textbook definition of a toxic, destructive player. It didn't matter how egregious their behavior was, they'd just get shrubbed, then come back (same character), repeat, get shrubbed, come back, repeat. I watched player after player leave the game in disgust after things this player would do to them. You want to see my permanently banned for not wanting this level of toxicity around. It would be nice if you thought the person causing it would be banned too, since what that person was doing was far, far worse. Or if you thought everyone who OOC metagames should be permanently banned. But that's ridiculous.

    I hope I'm being clear in that I don't think "I don't like this person OOC I'm going to deny them entry" is a valid process. Sheesh, I've let in plenty of people to org and guild who Ev didn't like IC and who I may not have been fond of OOC. All I'm talking about is the very extreme end.
    If the person repeatedly came back on the same character surely you would have IC reasons to deny that character, unless you only learned of it through alts or people telling you oocly? The admins have permanently shrubbed players so it is not like they don't do it, I don't know who you are talking both cause I have known multiple people fitting that description but none of whom I would not have ICly had reasons to deny entry to Serenwilde
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USAMember Posts: 2,938 Transcendent
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    I guess I played a lot during the era when it didn't matter what IC problems there were, if a toxic player who happened to be a good combatant said, "Hey, I'm leaving your enemy org and want to join your org and fight for you, what do I have to do?", people would scramble over themselves to be the first one to welcome the new strong fighter. The person would cause a ton of problems, eventually get kicked out of the org, then after joining 2 or 3 other orgs would come back with the same line, and the same thing would happen.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.

  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USAMember Posts: 2,938 Transcendent
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    I do find it a little odd that my position is garnering so many negative reactions for being an example of OOC metagaming when we routinely talk about how frequently IC decisions are made based on OOC clans, Discord conversations, batphoning, and other OOC considerations, and at most shrug our collective shoulders and say, "Well, that's just how it is."

    *shrug*


    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.

  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 180 Adept
    Retire the character to move to a new character in a new organsation. *
    Shaddus said:
    Deichtine said:
    I thought affinity went in because Fain had spy order members in every org?
    Affinity went in because one org (not to be partisan here, but Glomdoring) had a Fainite in it. Said Fainite had the grace and common sense of a bag of rats and got busted, and all hell broke loose. Suddenly it was a big deal.


    A lot of orgs before that had off-org order members in it. Before Estarra retconned Raezon, he used to have his order members everyone, including but not limited to a few high ranking Paladin leaders. But they kept their mouth shut and avoided certain statues, and it was ok.

    That makes me sad. I was getting bored of the game and had decided to move my character to Hallifax to see if it would open up new RP avenues. And Shikari was also back around/shortly after this time. And then I remember I didn't want to immediately abandon Hallifax and go to Shikari, but then also I stopped playing shortly after and didn't get to hang out with her.

    Affinity sux.
  • PysynnePysynne Member Posts: 114 Adept
    Retire the character to move to a new character in a new organsation. *
    Everiine said:
    I do find it a little odd that my position is garnering so many negative reactions for being an example of OOC metagaming when we routinely talk about how frequently IC decisions are made based on OOC clans, Discord conversations, batphoning, and other OOC considerations, and at most shrug our collective shoulders and say, "Well, that's just how it is."

    *shrug*




    Making decisions on OOC avenues is fine... until it affects me.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USAMember Posts: 2,938 Transcendent
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    I should point out that, as far as I know, none of the handful of super toxic players I knew about play the game anymore.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.

  • AfolliaAfollia Member Posts: 62 Apprentice
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    Esoneyuna said:
    Xenthos said:
    They have said repeatedly that they are not set on this option...
    If this weren't Lusternia where things like this have been said over and over only to mean the opposite, I would have taken that seriously. But it is Lusternia and experience teaches us differently.
    Pysynne said:
    A: It's not outing an alt to state the name of a person who tried to get into Serenwilde and was not allowed
    B: See A.
    So this kind of rubs me the wrong way.

    Let's not start trying to find out people's alts, especially in forums that are often hostile to people of different alignements. People should be allowed to re-main nameless and be treated for IC reasons if they wish to.

    Outing people just feels like a witchhunt.

    OOC reasons should never be the reasoning behind an IC action.

    Lusternia might have a rough & bad experiences, but you can't forever close yourself to opportunities just because you've had a bad time. It takes effort from both people to move forward in an argument.

    PS: This post may be very very very - very - late. My apologies.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,206 Transcendent
    People may want to keep in mind that discord has a search function
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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,144 Transcendent
    edited May 2
    Retire the character to move to a new character in a new organsation. *
    Not only that,  but it's not unreasonable to assume that sometimes people make stuff up just to make other people look bad.

    For instance, I could post an anecdote  where a person recently tried to join Glomdoring but was refused because of an argument they had with someone on facebook. Deichtine, being the leader of Glomdoring and naturally being both interested in Glomdoring's wellbeing as well as making sure people aren't being dicks to others in the name of Glomdoring, asks who this person is, as she hasn't heard anything about it. I reply that I'm not interested in outing anyone's alts, and provide no further information.

    Now, D has a problem. Am I just full of it? Did something actually happen that she needs to be aware of? 


    Man, my autocorrect is wonky :/
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • PysynnePysynne Member Posts: 114 Adept
    Retire the character to move to a new character in a new organsation. *
    Afollia said:
    Pysynne said:
    A: It's not outing an alt to state the name of a person who tried to get into Serenwilde and was not allowed
    B: See A.
    So this kind of rubs me the wrong way.

    Let's not start trying to find out people's alts, especially in forums that are often hostile to people of different alignements. People should be allowed to re-main nameless and be treated for IC reasons if they wish to.

    Outing people just feels like a witchhunt.

    OOC reasons should never be the reasoning behind an IC action.

    Lusternia might have a rough & bad experiences, but you can't forever close yourself to opportunities just because you've had a bad time. It takes effort from both people to move forward in an argument.

    PS: This post may be very very very - very - late. My apologies.


    Where did I once say "Tell me who the alt of the person rejected is"?

    I said "tell us who the person rejected was"

    Veyils literally made an accusation then refused to back it up by stating who the person is.

    Given that nobody in Serenwilde Discord has even heard of someone trying to join Serenwilde in the last 2 months, let alone someone rejected when they tried to join, and Veyils refusal to say who the mystery person is,  I am going to call BS on this one.
  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 476 Expert
    And in fact, the details that were provided in a PM are impossible
  • EnadonellaEnadonella Member Posts: 454 Expert
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    I think what is more of concern here is that she is protecting that person from being further attacked if they should choose to come back because not everyone who alts is as able as others to lie about who they are oocly. I for one am a terrible liar. So you would know who I am on an alt immediately. Where as some of you are adept at lying oocly so well we just wouldn't know! 

    This is not so much about an alt but an entire identity. If you do not believe it happened then that is all well and good. But they have publicly discussed this situation to such a degree that I heard about it also from someone, and that someone was not the person nor Deichtine. So it is certainly something that has been discussed as happening on a wider scale.
    I stand by the Oneiroi's decision to pull the book from the public library. I will specifically withdraw the Oneiroi's reason why and replace it with my own words which I've stated to you several times: We reserve the right to pull writings in the public library in our sole and absolute discretion. Any reason given for pulling a public writing is out of courtesy only and not to be taken as a precedent or a rule.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,206 Transcendent
    It's not super hard to check, I've searched through quite a few variations that would pick up a conversation like this with full access to the server being blamed. Not finding anything.

    Seems like someone has an agenda.
    image
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  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 476 Expert
    That's great, but it doesn't solve being given information that's impossible. 
  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 476 Expert
    edited May 3
    Reminder: I'm on this person's side! I want to know if something fishy is happening. I suggested a private venue, which was refused. I promised to keep the info private, refused.

    When was this?
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,144 Transcendent
    Retire the character to move to a new character in a new organsation. *
    I know for a fact that Deichtine will go out of her way to monitor Mag+Seren astral hunts and complain to Seren leaders if little Serens are being given undeath from a Cacophony. I'm also not so stupid as to believe that she does this out of any kindness or sense of forestal rp, but instead to try and drive a wedge between Mag and Seren. It's not outside the realm of belief that Deichtine is making up this unverifiable, unnamed person in some kind of forum rp shenanigans just to stir up trouble.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 413 Adept
    Retire the character to move to a new character in a new organsation. *
    I think what is more of concern here is that she is protecting that person from being further attacked if they should choose to come back because not everyone who alts is as able as others to lie about who they are oocly. I for one am a terrible liar. So you would know who I am on an alt immediately. Where as some of you are adept at lying oocly so well we just wouldn't know! 

    This is not so much about an alt but an entire identity. If you do not believe it happened then that is all well and good. But they have publicly discussed this situation to such a degree that I heard about it also from someone, and that someone was not the person nor Deichtine. So it is certainly something that has been discussed as happening on a wider scale.
    Glad we cleared that up! It's all just second-hand information about this one person that got declined. No wonder the claim can't be substantiated. Also, we know my characters so I'm going to give a perfect example of what we're asking for.

    Let's pretend the person in question is Makai, and I approach Enya about citizenship, and get denied for reasons. I then go to other people and recount the tale, using my character name of Makai to describe it all. You then approach Enya with "I heard about that one time at band camp, and it's not okay! No I won't give you the name, that outs alts!". Considering they can't verify your claim, because Makai was never brought up, and they have no history of such a thing happening, who's going to believe it? Even then, nobody, absolutely nobody knew Makai and Lycidas were the same player, because quite simply, NOBODY cares. You can state a character name to vet the claim, or just agree that it is being dismissed and called out as an unsubstantiated claim for lack of vital details.

    Now, if the situation was following the same route, and the name Makai was given, NOW then cay go back and verify and contest the claim. Maybe Makai was rude during the interview or made claims and statements that didn't mesh with the environment of the Serenwilde and turned away for that reason. What people perceive is the reason for denial is usually different from the reason given for denial. How many times you hear stories about someone "unfairly treated" at whatever establishment, just to find out it was inflated to a false story? Not saying that is the case, but it can't be proven one way or the other without that vital detail.
  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 476 Expert
    edited May 3
    Who besides Enadonella and Deichtine has heard this story? The third party who isn't the rejected person or those two? Or is that private?
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,144 Transcendent
    edited May 3
    Retire the character to move to a new character in a new organsation. *
    What's worse is that peoples' reaction to this is going to be twisted in certain private discord channels or clans. "See! Why do they hate us so much? We're just doing the right thing by protecting someone from being outed, and everyone is against us. We must be right!"
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 553 Fabled
    guiz i herd that someones alt applied to gadui but because someone on the freedom council didnt like their main they were hunted down and beaten with rocks
    i cant belive gaudi would do that!!1
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 2,016 Transcendent
    Try and move your character to a new organisation via traditional in-game methods.
    Im not giving out their name, if they want to they can speak up about it but not my place to say.
  • PysynnePysynne Member Posts: 114 Adept
    Retire the character to move to a new character in a new organsation. *
    Except... you already did... It not being your place would be to have not mentioned it at all.
This discussion has been closed.