Timequakes and Survival

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Comments

  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 409 Adept
    It is definitely an enter at your own risk, but at the same time, we as people can be better and perhaps not ruthlessly hunt them down. I don't think that people on the side having to suicide run really smile at dying four times or so to participate enough. Though at the same time, I don't want to just see a 'Papers Please' style of conflict. Hard to explain I guess, maybe the best way I can put it is "Give'm their lumps that are due for showing up, but don't be a dick about it."
  • ChorosChoros Member Posts: 68 Capable
    "It's a competition." - Snald
  • NyanaNyana Member Posts: 77 Apprentice
    And 1 vs 13 is totally a fair competition, so no need to consider the whole "don't be a dick about it" perspective.
  • GurashiGurashi Member Posts: 113 Gifted
    edited June 23
    Maligorn said:
    ... Otoh, I feel like the topic of mercy could be discussed IG, and there are different avenues ripe for RP to achieve that mercy. I know Gurashi passed through the desolate kephera timequake once, literally walking into us, and 95% of us just let him do his thing.

    Unfairly, that's also because we know Gurashi is adorable and kind OOCly.

    ICly (i.e. fairly), we know he's not much of a fighter.
    Hah, I REMEMBER this and still use it as an example to argue that 'they're sometimes merciful, so we should be too'! (Also, thank you??? ;A; *covers face* )

    I think the biggest problem is that if one person from one org is inside of a TQ for one minute, then the org gets rewarded for that one person's one minute ... which is a big reason people don't want to let straggler's from opposing orgs come in and get a tick! Maybe if players could still earn a promocoin/daily credits for being in the TQ after one minute, but orgs would only get the benefits from it after like, five minutes, or if three or more players from an org were there? It'd cut down on the 'we don't want their city/commune to be rewarded'. Player gets a tick, reduced mauling on single players who aren't into PVP... or something.

    But yeah when it's like 10+ vs 1 or 2 I'd rather just go release some anomalies than try 'n join in on the murder. That being said, smaller groups where it's more evenly matched - even though I'm not much of a fighter - the PVP can sort of be fun!

    (Side note: If I've ever killed you in a big outnumbered conflict, I'm really sorry! OOCly I'd love to let you get a tick, ICly Gurashi is like 'am helping, yes'. It's really hard separating that gap between OOC desire vs IC reaction sometimes)
    Many greetings! I do commissions!

    You say, I want that on my headstone: "You can't blanknote the dead!"
  • NyanaNyana Member Posts: 77 Apprentice
    edited June 23
    Gurashi said:

    I think the biggest problem is that if one person from one org is inside of a TQ for one minute, then the org gets rewarded for that one person's one minute ... which is a big reason people don't want to let straggler's from opposing orgs come in and get a tick! Maybe if players could still earn a promocoin/daily credits for being in the TQ after one minute, but orgs would only get the benefits from it after like, five minutes, or if three or more players from an org were there? It'd cut down on the 'we don't want their city/commune to be rewarded'. Player gets a tick, reduced mauling on single players who aren't into PVP... or something.

    But yeah when it's like 10+ vs 1 or 2 I'd rather just go release some anomalies than try 'n join in on the murder. That being said, smaller groups where it's more evenly matched - even though I'm not much of a fighter - the PVP can sort of be fun!

    (Side note: If I've ever killed you in a big outnumbered conflict, I'm really sorry! OOCly I'd love to let you get a tick, ICly Gurashi is like 'am helping, yes'. It's really hard separating that gap between OOC desire vs IC reaction sometimes)
    Eh, the orgcredit isn't really that big a deal. Most of the time I forget that's a thing, because I wager orgs get all the credit they can for it within the first 3-4 months of the new year. If every org is getting the same 50(?) point benefit from it each year, that's not really a competition, so there's no need to fight against it. On the other hand, maybe there would be if orgs got only 1-2 points for *every* timequake they attended. Not enough to make a huge difference, but some incentive to keep showing up.

    It's not the deaths that bother me, mine or the non-comms among us. It's the people who are mean about it over clans or after someone dies. Some of us have alts, some of us talk to people on the other side oocly - that stuff gets shared, and it leads to a feeling of resentment on an ooc level between players. It also encourages newer players to think of the other side as bad at combat or stupid or w/e else... which is not going to always be the case. Anyone will die when they're targeted by 10+ people, that's no fault of theirs. Myself, I sometimes mock people when the numbers are even and it was a decent fight and we won - but if it's one person showing up for a tick, I'm more likely to say something like "good try". Bragging about killing them would just be silly.
  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 159 Capable
    Nyana said:

    It's not the deaths that bother me, mine or the non-comms among us. It's the people who are mean about it over clans after someone dies. Some of us have alts, some of us talk to people on the other side oocly - that stuff gets shared, and it leads to a feeling of resentment on an ooc level between players. It also encourages newer players to think of the other side as bad at combat or stupid or w/e else... which is not going to always be the case. Anyone will die when they're targeted by 10+ people, that's no fault of theirs. Myself, I sometimes mock people when the numbers are even and it was a decent fight and we won - but if it's one person showing up for a tick, I'm more likely to say something like "good try". Bragging about killing them would just be silly.
    If the problem is that we want to not take things OOC and prevent inter-player resentment (I agree!), then there's no reason to mock ever, no?

    I mean, we all make mistakes, so I can understand that part. Kind of a different topic, I guess.
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 409 Adept
    Having spoken quite a bit with Nyana, my guess is her mocking would be along the lines of, "I'm not so weak now in even numbers, huh?" rather than actually being derisive to somebody. I dunno, I don't get the 'get rekt' vibe from her.
  • NelrasNelras Member Posts: 140 Gifted
    edited June 23
    Ok, I am probably a little bit salty from the current timequake, but here goes. Please could we either be allowed to ascend out again or otherwise have some way of getting to the rift? It is possible to survive even against the odds sometimes, but escaping afterwards is near impossible in that situation and has been since the changes that stopped movement. To me at least, this is even more frustrating than being jumped when you enter the timequake as you are no longer dying to gain something but rather just dying.

    I understand why timequakes had to be changed to prevent wonderclock use, but I don't understand where preventing all other forms of movement came from.

    *edit*
    Could the ability either to ascend or to move to the rift or something of that sort possibly be added to one of the research paths, if there is a place for it? I do not want to make escaping a sure thing every time, and certainly not during an actual fight, only to make it possible for someone who has already survived against the odds.
  • NyanaNyana Member Posts: 77 Apprentice
    Synl said:
    Nyana said:

    It's not the deaths that bother me, mine or the non-comms among us. It's the people who are mean about it over clans after someone dies. Some of us have alts, some of us talk to people on the other side oocly - that stuff gets shared, and it leads to a feeling of resentment on an ooc level between players. It also encourages newer players to think of the other side as bad at combat or stupid or w/e else... which is not going to always be the case. Anyone will die when they're targeted by 10+ people, that's no fault of theirs. Myself, I sometimes mock people when the numbers are even and it was a decent fight and we won - but if it's one person showing up for a tick, I'm more likely to say something like "good try". Bragging about killing them would just be silly.
    If the problem is that we want to not take things OOC and prevent inter-player resentment (I agree!), then there's no reason to mock ever, no?

    I mean, we all make mistakes, so I can understand that part. Kind of a different topic, I guess.
    Difference of perspective, imo. Smack talk is a pretty standard part of most competition, so if there's an in-character reason to want to do it... why not? If someone told me oocly that it bothered them, I'd make a note not to talk to that person that way IC. I agree that it's a fine line sometimes, I suppose I'm just not comfortable taunting people who did the best they could in an unfair competition. You can kick a puppy across the room and brag about how strong your kicks are, but... why?

    Makai said:
    Having spoken quite a bit with Nyana, my guess is her mocking would be along the lines of, "I'm not so weak now in even numbers, huh?" rather than actually being derisive to somebody. I dunno, I don't get the 'get rekt' vibe from her.
    Hmph. I feel like you're saying I'm too nice, and I'm not sure whether to take it as a compliment or not.  :p
  • CrenshawCrenshaw Member Posts: 4 Inept
    Kistan said:
    Come in at the end when they have got the last anomaly
    That is a fair statement, but people are also attacking folks on prime that -only pk- others during big fights. I don't know if people have ever noticed, but I don't attack unless there is 2+ and there is a battle going on. I have disabled my target tracking specifically because of this.

    There is no reason to be a douchebag and do that to people. None whatsoever.

    Also no reason to camp at the entry rift and PK someone waiting for the last few minutes, which has happened to me, and they are now listed on PK status for their efforts of fighting the lone Nekotai that couldn't 1v1 if my RL depended on it. 

    For the most part, because I don't usually get a kill in on group fights, I'm like @Ayisdra in that I am there for the dailycredit tick, and the promo point. I just want my shinies.
  • NyanaNyana Member Posts: 77 Apprentice
    Nelras said:

    *edit*
    Could the ability either to ascend or to move to the rift or something of that sort possibly be added to one of the research paths, if there is a place for it? I do not want to make escaping a sure thing every time, and certainly not during an actual fight, only to make it possible for someone who has already survived against the odds.
    This seems like a cool thing for knowledge to do, maybe, since it seems the least popular branch? Know where the exit is, or be able to track to it immediately.
  • CrenshawCrenshaw Member Posts: 4 Inept
    We could try to incorporate an aura of hostility on a timer, for example, 1 minute and 10 seconds. 

    Anyone who has played Aetolia will understand the idea: If no aura, PK is not ok. If Aura, then you are fair game. Would allow people the chance to get in, get the tick, and get out.
  • MakaiMakai Member Posts: 409 Adept
    edited June 23
    I've thought about sanctuary-like ideas for just passing through, just like that one, but I do not think it should grant credit for attending or orgpoints if you're in the safety bubble. Exploring the rift to take in the sights? 100% okay, get the credit for a PK event while in full safety? Not okay, personally.

    Edit: As for Knowledge, I think it has massive potential if the 3rd power Metal Potency was 5ap for the entire month....not a single IG day. Mental Precision is nice, especially for all these people aethertrading now. So in conjunction with these other Knowledge ideas, replace Time Mind (Reduced mana costs while in rift) to be able to ascend out, fast travel to the exit, or whatever that kind of solution finds.
  • MinkahmetMinkahmet Member Posts: 86 Apprentice
    Ayisdra said:
    Most of the time, I only go into the timequake for the promo point. Given that there is no loss for dying (Which is the only reason I even bother with timequakes/promocredit), I can easily go in 60 times if I need to. I like to believe that I pose next to zero threat to anyone (I guess at most, I can break a meld, but half the time I forget to do even that).
    Also in the least from my perspective, you don't go out of your way to complain/cry/insult others for killing you and I find that a means of truly taking the high road. So that's a plus in my thinking.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,950 Transcendent
    Minkahmet said:
    Ayisdra said:
    Most of the time, I only go into the timequake for the promo point. Given that there is no loss for dying (Which is the only reason I even bother with timequakes/promocredit), I can easily go in 60 times if I need to. I like to believe that I pose next to zero threat to anyone (I guess at most, I can break a meld, but half the time I forget to do even that).
    Also in the least from my perspective, you don't go out of your way to complain/cry/insult others for killing you and I find that a means of truly taking the high road. So that's a plus in my thinking.
    All the way up until you and two others kill Ayisdra via declare on Prime because you lost the fight. Maybe you should take the high road more often.

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  • ToshikoToshiko Member Posts: 9 Inept
    The one advantage to being Demigod for timequakes? You don't conglut so you don't lose power -or- essence! Today I learned, despite my best efforts to show kindness to the opposition when they just wanted to come in. Nothing like being known for being nice and trying to be unassuming sitting on the rift.
  • AramelAramel Member Posts: 283 Mythical

    (clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
  • AlexandriaAlexandria Member Posts: 65 Capable
    Toshiko said:
    The one advantage to being Demigod for timequakes? You don't conglut so you don't lose power -or- essence! Today I learned, despite my best efforts to show kindness to the opposition when they just wanted to come in. Nothing like being known for being nice and trying to be unassuming sitting on the rift.
    You do lose your god essence, though, so booooo to that.
  • ToshikoToshiko Member Posts: 9 Inept
    @Aramel wouldn't really call that relevant, not making a grandstand. Also, bonus of not being in an Order, I don't lose a Divine any essence!
  • KarKar Member Posts: 18 Novice
    I don't mind getting ganked on entry. My SOP was to block/trap/wall shardfall area entrances and wait for victims. I've managed to get the 1m tick by myself v 10+ in 2-3 deaths. I almost got it in one once I learned Serpent, but the leg break spam has made that questionable (I do need to setup parry stuff, which could make that easier.)

     I just wish more of the fights were within a reasonable attempt range, but that's not something you can really call on players to fix.
  • MinkahmetMinkahmet Member Posts: 86 Apprentice

  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 840 Transcendent
    Kar said:

     I just wish more of the fights were within a reasonable attempt range, but that's not something you can really call on players to fix.
    There are some things players could probably do to fix it. And no, not talking about forcing anyone to switch sides. What you might ask is why some orgs are more appealing for people to join than others, or why people stop logging in/participating. 

  • ChorosChoros Member Posts: 68 Capable
    Kethaera said:
    Kar said:

     I just wish more of the fights were within a reasonable attempt range, but that's not something you can really call on players to fix.
    There are some things players could probably do to fix it. And no, not talking about forcing anyone to switch sides. What you might ask is why some orgs are more appealing for people to join than others, or why people stop logging in/participating. 

    Some orgs are less appealing because their leaders are quick to say, "let's not even try", and not quick to say, "Let's try and see how it goes".
  • NyanaNyana Member Posts: 77 Apprentice
    edited June 26
    Choros said:
    Kethaera said:
    Kar said:

     I just wish more of the fights were within a reasonable attempt range, but that's not something you can really call on players to fix.
    There are some things players could probably do to fix it. And no, not talking about forcing anyone to switch sides. What you might ask is why some orgs are more appealing for people to join than others, or why people stop logging in/participating. 

    Some orgs are less appealing because their leaders are quick to say, "let's not even try", and not quick to say, "Let's try and see how it goes".
    Er... if you're referring to the timequake that I recall, we were outnumbered 14 to 4. As impressive as I'm sure I am with my broken class, I don't think lack of effort there was the issue. There are times that I wish our side would try despite the odds, but that wasn't one. It can be demoralizing to say 'nah, not worth it' every time, for sure. It's also demoralizing to lead people to their deaths. It makes them less willing to follow you next time, and it can make them think they - or their side - are worse than it really is. Lack of xp loss helps, but it doesn't change the psychological effect of losing repeatedly.

    The very next tiimequake, @Aramel did say 'let's try and see how it goes' even though it still appeared, at first, that we were outnumbered(just not so ridiculously). And we won.

    Also, imo, the divide is not purely or even primarily about IC considerations. I don't want to get too much into this debate on the forums, but... IMO, Avurekhos and Ixion are better leaders than anyone on the "other side" that still plays. Sorry, not sorry for my opinion, but that's based on watching both sides and seeing how fights typically play out when they are actual fights. There are people on both sides that could improve, including myself, and there are people that I think are much better on the other side than they used to be. So... I don't think that's the problem for us, personally. But there still ARE problems that would be better to discuss elsewhere!
  • ChorosChoros Member Posts: 68 Capable
    I don't disagree with your post, but my statement was meant overall. Given that dying in a timequake causes no actual loss outside of time and power (and apparently divine essence), there's no reason not to group up and try.


    As for the specific timequake you mentioned, my frustration was because the most outspoken "let's not even try" person wasn't really known for trying in the first place. 
  • KistanKistan Member Posts: 393 Expert
    Nyana said:

    Er... if you're referring to the timequake that I recall, we were outnumbered 14 to 4. As impressive as I'm sure I am with my broken class, I don't think lack of effort there was the issue. There are times that I wish our side would try despite the odds, but that wasn't one. 

    I think that even with those odds, its much easier to get close to surviving the minute with one group of four as opposed to four groups of 1.

    I know when I have been in the smaller number groups, there is always someone (normally @Steingrim) making sure, where possible, everyone got their tick before calling it a day.
  • NyanaNyana Member Posts: 77 Apprentice
    Choros said:
    I don't disagree with your post, but my statement was meant overall. Given that dying in a timequake causes no actual loss outside of time and power (and apparently divine essence), there's no reason not to group up and try.


    As for the specific timequake you mentioned, my frustration was because the most outspoken "let's not even try" person wasn't really known for trying in the first place. 
    Eh, I said we shouldn't bother too, and that person you probably mean was the only other person around from Mag at the time. It's completely understandable. I agree there's more of an incentive for people to try during timequakes than any other time, but there's still a morale cost to dying. 

    Kistan said:
    Nyana said:

    Er... if you're referring to the timequake that I recall, we were outnumbered 14 to 4. As impressive as I'm sure I am with my broken class, I don't think lack of effort there was the issue. There are times that I wish our side would try despite the odds, but that wasn't one. 

    I think that even with those odds, its much easier to get close to surviving the minute with one group of four as opposed to four groups of 1.

    I know when I have been in the smaller number groups, there is always someone (normally @Steingrim) making sure, where possible, everyone got their tick before calling it a day.
    Sometimes, sure, I have this debate with myself all the time. At that particular timequake, the fact that we split up meant that I got a tick the first time I entered, which is typically rare in those circumstances. A lot of times, though, I enter alone because 1. No one from Mag is coming and 2. No one spoke up on the alliance clan. So from my POV, I either go in now or wait for even more Gloms/Celestians to show up. That more people on my side will come in a few minutes is often not immediately obvious. If they do, though, I will usually go in again to help them get their tick.

    If we all go in together, chances are the first, maybe second and third targets will not be in there long enough. Splitting up means that either the entire group will go after one person, or multiple people will be targeted by smaller groups - either way, that can mean that everyone (except that one target) has a better chance of surviving long enough. If someone can use great pentagram or meld, then it makes grouping much more effective. 
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,178 Transcendent
    Nyana said:
    Choros said:
    I don't disagree with your post, but my statement was meant overall. Given that dying in a timequake causes no actual loss outside of time and power (and apparently divine essence), there's no reason not to group up and try.


    As for the specific timequake you mentioned, my frustration was because the most outspoken "let's not even try" person wasn't really known for trying in the first place. 
    Eh, I said we shouldn't bother too, and that person you probably mean was the only other person around from Mag at the time. It's completely understandable. I agree there's more of an incentive for people to try during timequakes than any other time, but there's still a morale cost to dying
    This really. Dying and losing just don't feel great, it's also particularly true for me in Lusternia for some reason.
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