Melder Revamp Testing

2

Comments

  • DysDys Member Posts: 676 Fabled
    I saw the reductions, it must have been crazy before so appreciate the drop.

    Still, single target darkseed is currently not far off stapling an unkillable novice with a web enchant to your target.

    Mostly I'm concerned that being so locked down passively isn't fun.
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 552 Fabled
    edited September 10
    Xenthos said:
    The pincharge lockdown is obviously not 8 seconds
    It's a four second balance knock plus a writhe which, according to the post you're agreeing with, is 3-4 seconds. Also, the pincharger can attack while their target is pinned.
    edit: The above being said, 2p multi-minute uncurable, recurring afflictions are kind of nuts. I honestly might shift everything's frequency down a tier, making single-target tick as frequently as roomwide does now and so on.
  • AramelAramel Member Posts: 294 Mythical
    It's already been reduced so I guess we'll see how it pans out. I expect some changes post-release anyway.
    (clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,133 Mythical
    edited September 10
    >>deleted
    Post edited by Steingrim on
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 178 Adept
    +1 for just making all the single-target abilities the geo one. Have everything knock off balance seems like the best option. 

    Excited for this to drop. I'm sure shit is going to be broken (passive concussion, am I reading this right...?), but BT sucks so hard that it'll be nice to get something new all the same.

    Next up crow special report maybe................
  • MinkahmetMinkahmet Member Posts: 104 Capable
    Synl said:
    +1 for just making all the single-target abilities the geo one. Have everything knock off balance seems like the best option. 

    Excited for this to drop. I'm sure shit is going to be broken (passive concussion, am I reading this right...?), but BT sucks so hard that it'll be nice to get something new all the same.

    Next up crow special report maybe................
    HEY HEY! I want my Celestine report first!  <3
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,753 Transcendent
    Kalnid said:
    Xenthos said:
    The pincharge lockdown is obviously not 8 seconds
    It's a four second balance knock plus a writhe which, according to the post you're agreeing with, is 3-4 seconds. Also, the pincharger can attack while their target is pinned.
    edit: The above being said, 2p multi-minute uncurable, recurring afflictions are kind of nuts. I honestly might shift everything's frequency down a tier, making single-target tick as frequently as roomwide does now and so on.
    Your numbers are a bit off.  What's important to note about Cavalier impale is that it is not the same affliction as Entangled.  It functions differently; it scales based off of how wounded your gut is.  If someone is pincharging, they're not wounding your gut.
    Example:
    You slam into Steingrim, viciously impaling him through the gut on your bardiche.
    12420h, 9390m, 10400e, 8p melrb<>- /11:32:39.232/

    With a look of agony on his face, Steingrim manages to writhe himself free of the blade through his gut.
    13662h, 10329m, 10400e, 8p melrxb<>- /11:32:45.132/

    The 8s being asserted as fact is demonstrably untrue.

    For reference, on the other side (note that SSC started the moment he had balance back with a level 1 balance buff):
    08:39:17.326 [Autocuring]: Curing 'impaled' with 'writhe'.
    08:39:17.328 You begin to writhe furiously to escape the blade that has impaled you.
    08:39:19.287 With an heroic effort you manage to writhe yourself free from the blade through your gut.

    Writhe timer is 2s for that.

    Now, that said, I feel like I've pretty thoroughly put to bed this "comparison" being brought forth here.  They are two very different skills with two entirely different mechanics them up (as indicated in my first reply) across two wildly different classes.  The appropriate comparison is to the other melder things, and I agree with you on your observations there.
    image
  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 552 Fabled
    Xenthos said:
    If someone is pincharging, they're not wounding your gut.
    This is incorrect.
  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,133 Mythical
    Xenthos said:
    The pincharge lockdown is obviously not 8 seconds, and you can still cure while pinned.
    So, given actual facts, Darkseed could use a toning down.  It could just be a faux entangle that functions like the geo one (knocking off balance with a message that the person is escaping the vines).  Seems more fair.  Actually throwing entangle into the mix skews things quite a bit.
    If going that route then one possible flavour text might be something along the lines of dodging vines/branches.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • SnaldSnald Member Posts: 102 Capable
    Couple things I noticed today looking at all the skillsets. It looks like stags are the only beast that does something special that isn't just damage+the leveled aff. Also it seems like treelife didn't change (which is commonly turned off with current mechanics). I don't have a better idea for treelife or anything but it is unfortunate that the mage melds will get a useful mechanic that pulls down flyers and anyone climbing to ground level while druids have to choose between pulling down flyers or keeping everyone together. Treelife has limited use compared to the mage versions I think.
  • PysynnePysynne Member Posts: 111 Adept
    Treelife is also how you get people into the trees where you are "stronger" as a druid. It has always been a bit of a struggle to teach people how to fight in a druid meld, but I don't think changing Treelife is a good idea because otherwise you can't force people into the trees.

    As for the meld beasts, I don't know what if any skills beyond breath attacks the other beasts had, but Stag has always had treetoss instead of a damage attack.
  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 178 Adept
    Crow has dysentry. But if druid melds are stronger in the trees, it is a straight imbalance to have one druid have an extra method of getting into trees but the other not. It'd be easy to flavor too: Crow picks you up and hoists you into the trees. Done and done.
  • PysynnePysynne Member Posts: 111 Adept
    Crow has free cling+ in the trees.
    Stag does not.

    Not everything has to be mirrored.
  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 178 Adept
    That's Crow vs. Stag. The Druidry skillsets are designed to be largely mirrored, same as the Mage skillsets. I thought this would be obvious.

    (Not everything has to be mirrored. Good competitive balance requires all sides to have equal access to all skills though. So depends on if you want this game to be competitive or not. But that's a discussion for a different topic, I suppose.)
  • PysynnePysynne Member Posts: 111 Adept
    edited September 10
    Blacktalon Druids get perch buffed.

    Also "largely mirrored" ~= "completely mirrored"

    Good competitive balance requires all sides to have equal access to all skills though

    Looking forward to Twist and Choke coming our way soon.
  • SynlSynl Member Posts: 178 Adept
    Yo it's no secret I've argued they should :P Like Aramel I think is the other big proponent for just making all guardians/wiccans exactly the same, etc. I was pushing for complete mirroring across these druid buffs (still happy with the general design Orael! Glad to see an overarching design approach!). But people want to be unique etc. so what can you do.
  • OraelOrael Member, Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 349 Creator
    It's looking unlikely that we're going to get this out tonight. I've run into an issue that's taking up some time. 

    I apologize for the delay.
  • TridemonTridemon Member Posts: 727 Fabled
    Take your time, get it right... And let's hope there's a bit of fanfare, eh? A juicy little event, even if there's nothing to interact with, would be sweet.
    I'm Lucidian. If I don't get pedantic every so often, I might explode.
  • OraelOrael Member, Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 349 Creator
    Alright

     The code is ready to load in, I ended up updating Darkseed to fire every 6s/8s instead of 4s/6s. 

     The part left to be done that'll I'll do tomorrow is getting the new AB's all written up. So tomorrow night, we should be able to load it and be good to go.

     I don't think there will be any event or fanfare, unfortunately. 
  • SnaldSnald Member Posts: 102 Capable
    Blacktalon scarab suddenly changed to knock slush balance now? That's... an odd choice
  • OraelOrael Member, Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 349 Creator
    Changes are loaded in and ready to roll.

    Scarab was initially intended to block drinking slush, but fundamentally a balance knock shouldn't be much different. 
  • SnaldSnald Member Posts: 102 Capable
    I was under the impression that scarab did a lot more than that. Doesn't scarab currently do intermittent blocking of sipping (including health/mana/bromides), blocking of eating dust, as well as damage on a tick? Compared to other melds similar abilities (passive entangle, levitate strip/fling, passive blackout, etc) a slush knock sounds super weak as well as not being a good fit with blacktalon meld (which seems like you're making based on dust). 
  • OraelOrael Member, Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 349 Creator
    Right, but in the initial discussions, it was pointed out that what scarab really does it pretty strong so we were going to tone it down to just knocking one balance or something. If it needs to be a dust knock, we can look at that.
  • CrekCrek Member Posts: 263 Fabled
    Some thoughts and questions without testing in any meaningful way. Some of these may have been brought up before. I haven't really had the time to keep up on these changes. I'm not requesting balance changes or anything of the sort. I'm willing to wait for reports and (hopefully) a followup overhaul of Phantasms/Crow/Stag.


    - What are the major benefits of fighting in tree elevation for druids beyond reduced power costs? Do mages still have to deal with levitation/waterwalking?

    - Can the new Blacktalon crow beast ability be renamed? It is currently called dysentery but does not give dysentery.

    - Can bonded members show their true location on DEMESNE instead of the generic hidden room name?

    - Being called a doofus for trying to forceforest was cute.

    - I love the new Blacktalon ability descriptions. They come off as very Nighty rather than Crowy but they are still fitting and wonderful. I'd be ok with seeing some small amounts of damage or bleeding from CASTING these abilities since we're being destroyed while casting them anyway.

    - Can we get a line about the demesne avatar disappearing whenever you as the meld holder enters/exit the room. Just to make sure we are entering a node room.
    The Divine voice of Ianir the Anomaly echoes in your head, "You are a ray of sunshine in a sea of 
    depression. I just wanted you to know that."
  • OraelOrael Member, Administrator, Moderator, Gods Posts: 349 Creator
    Fixed the bonded melders and blacktalon crow

    That's really it for fighting in the trees. I didn't want to mess with things too much regarding trees vs ground.

    There is a message for the elementals - it just maybe after you leave/before you enter.
  • MalariousMalarious Member Posts: 624 Gifted
    Some of the issues I brought up before this was implemented seem present:

    Bad points, most of which were brought up before:
    - Stacking is even easier now. You cannot cure the new level affs at the same time as other affs, so something has to stack/build. 
    - Melds (not tested with all) do more affs than you can cure per meld tic, so it guarantees a stack. Bunkering is now even better (yay?).
    - Melders are potentially MORE needed now as effects got a buff and are potentially lethal.
    - The channel to break melds is a real channel, not the soft channel (curing allowed) previously mentioned. This can cause potential issues with being hindered before completion or, you know, dying. 
    - A lot of hindering in effects. Fast entangles are stupidly more powerful than a 1s balance knock. To be proportional, the entangle skill should be once per 16 or 20 seconds. 
    - Did I mention there is skills to specifically stop breaking? Incinerate in pyromancy pushes people off nodes, which also is a group break, yay. 
    - Using a cure with no other affs should cure the levelled affs. That is, EAT DUST should cure particulates or frostbite if you have no other dust affs. This would also make it easier to use guess with internal (for SSC) and have it cure those if present. 
    - Elementals disappear immediately when melder enters, this was specifically brought up as an issue where the melder can dance to inhibit the process, harder to deal with for druid melds or aeros. 

    Good points:
    + I do like that the elementals are fairly killable. 
    + Nodes are smart pathers, but pay attention, you have to notice the break points (who have their own lines in room now). 

    Things that were stated as wouldn't be an issue or were already being handled weren't. Basically none of the major issues presented were resolved before the testing was done. Yet another smack in the face to combat and balance, I guess we wait for every other class buff now. I think I may retire soon, it is disheartening to put in some of the little time I had just to be assured of solutions, then be completely ignored. Everything is now worse. I hate to be the negative guy here, but I literally gave this list before and we didn't learn the first time. 

    Other can say "You are being dramatic" or "This isn't that bad", but I hear this often and then things are not fixed. We still have issues with several skills that haven't been resolved for being problems and we took the idea of not needing a melder and made melders more important, while making existing melders worse upon entering a meld. 

    I want to apologize to Orael, whom I know worked hard, but I also do not want to pull punches. I hope he has a greater vision and that it comes to fruition more quickly, but I do not know if I will be here. I am in Lusternia for combat and the worse things seem to skew, the less I want to bother. 
  • AramelAramel Member Posts: 294 Mythical
    I agree with having cloudcoils and its equivalents cure on a normal smoke if there's no affliction from the aff pool (aside from tempinsanity and its equivalents) being cured. It makes life easier and involves less coding on the player side (not to mention fixing a curing problem I've bugged already).
    (clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
  • EnyaEnya Member Posts: 472 Expert
    edited September 12
    As far as tree elevation goes, I'd be down to have an ability for druids that just turns off the tree elevation period. For both allies and enemies, brumetower that doesn't stop flying or anything, just turns off the tree elevation. It has historically been a powerful tool... sometimes. Most of the time it's just a massive headache that ends up screwing anything but a perfectly organized hometeam - and even then it means you have to keep track of an entire extra elevation level of combat with few tools to really manage people on that level. For a long time, being on the tree elevation didn't functionally make druids all that much stronger outside of enabling sap, after which the druid commonly wanted the target on the ground anyways. Now that sap is gone there's just not much reason to hang onto it anymore.

    Let druids turn off tree elevation and give some other buff to alleviate the defensive benefits of running to trees and potentially confusing a chaser. Make treetoss a better beast gust instead of perfect tree elevation hitter. Give perch some other effect on the ground, call it a day.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 2,979 Transcendent
    I didn't even realize it til just recently, but giving all the melders Pyromancy Mirage is definitely a hilarious but probably not awesome adjustment to melds, especially since allies and even the meld holder themselves are blinded by it. I'd suggest cutting that out.

    image
  • AuriellaAuriella Member Posts: 41 Capable
    edited September 12
    @Orael ;

    Firstly, thank you for all the efforts you've and all the admin all put in behind the scenes. The messages and aesthetics of the Aquamancy meld are so good, I love them!! 

    Just two minor little possible ideas though.

    As before I was wondering if we could change the name of Preserve. You did mention we could back in the beginning. Something lilke Cold Snap or anything other than a condiment or way of prolonging food :) And maybe maybe rename missile for each spec hehe :blush:

    Also, Turtle breathe attack of Steam, aesthetically it doesn't really fit any longer, steam doesn't produce frostbite could be possibly rename and change the message of that also by chance? (P.S and also make it do frostbite/damage like I assume its supposed to hehe.)

    P.P.S I've also bugged a few issues with Aquamancy and skills not working like they should or working at all. <3
    Post edited by Auriella on
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